Anyone here got into cryptocurrencies ?

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Re: Anyone here got into cryptocurrencies ?

Post by SweetPea » Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:00 am

SweetPea wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote: They are not "currencies" but "mobile assets" used in barter.
Which is currency.
That is a definition of "currency". Of course, some will use different definitions in order to suit their own purposes.
How do the Deniers get so lucky?
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=24129" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Anyone here got into cryptocurrencies ?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:21 am

zeuzzz wrote:Capital gain tax is sooo last year..
You don't know what "capital gains" are, do you?
:D

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Re: Anyone here got into cryptocurrencies ?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:27 am

zeuzzz wrote: On a more serious note I know how the cryptocurrencies work technically inside and out, however how they might be integrated into already existing monetary and legal systems I'm a lot more hazy about.
Well modern American currency is 75% cotton and 25% linen.

However, even with that amazing knowledge concerning US currency, I still have to also learn about financial regulations, economics and taxation, and learn how to make a profit, when using it.

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Re: Anyone here got into cryptocurrencies ?

Post by zeuzzz » Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:55 am

Matthew Ellard wrote: You don't know what "capital gains" are, do you?
:D
Is that really bad?

Can you tell I've never run a business? :D
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Re: Anyone here got into cryptocurrencies ?

Post by SweetPea » Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:11 am



Canadian bills melt with a little heat
How do the Deniers get so lucky?
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=24129" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Anyone here got into cryptocurrencies ?

Post by zeuzzz » Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:41 am

SweetPea wrote:

Canadian bills melt with a little heat
From what I've read you've got to put them under quite considerable heat to do that. What a design failure though.
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Re: Anyone here got into cryptocurrencies ?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Dec 10, 2015 3:06 am

zeuzzz wrote: I know how the cryptocurrencies work technically inside and out,
Obviously you don't and I was right all the time. It was a scam.

Scam Step 1 : Release a crypto-currency and get people to pump up its value.
Scam Step 2 : When the currency starts to fall, manufacture another $400,000,000 in the same currency and get ready to sell it.


Anti Scam Step 1 : Australian intelligence services actually wonder how international bribes are paid, if not using normal currency and start an investigation. BINGO.
Anti Scam Step 2 : Change the taxation legislation while the investigation is going on converting cryptocurrencies to trade-able "capital assets" with AUD currency value. Arrest "capital gains" tax evader, with initial zero cost base. :D


Australian police raid Sydney home of reported bitcoin creator
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technolog ... li=BBnb7Kz

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Re: Anyone here got into cryptocurrencies ?

Post by zeuzzz » Fri Dec 11, 2015 1:56 pm

Matt I'm confused about your position, because you are a tax collector, you see this as a positive step?

Anyone cashing bitcoins out into a fiat currency can be taxed then. Plus you can check the blockchain with their addresses entire history of transactions.

For now just roll with it. The technology works. It's not really a technology; more a protocol. Like the world-wide web was. Before it boomed.

If you are purely talking about alternative currencies and other rehashes of bitcoin then what you say above is excusable. As people do tend to 'pump and dump' them, and people can buy into the hype. But the idea of crypto-currencies is not going away anytime soon. It's quite simple maths when you look into the encryption and the way the nodes work. And bitcoin is still holding court over all the alt' currencies.

Sure jail the [supposed] creator. They can do as they want. The protocol works; independent of the creator. He's probably not even the creator. Egg on the face of the authorities once again. That article is hilariously misguided; they have no idea what they are doing. Another typical example of law enforcement not getting it, or the bigger picture. Just mindlessly following orders, usually given to them from equally stupid power grabbing politicians.

All bitcoin does in reality is enable a by-passing of the corporate hegemony of banks and the corporate amorphous state that see themselves as above state/country bound laws. It gives people a free protocol to send money to people without intermediate and extortionately ridiculous fees. It's a global protocol; just like the internet.

I'm sure people in power would have loved to arrest the creator of the word-wide-web and shut it down. As the internet is now becoming a major thorn in the side of the establishment. Arresting the Tim Berners Lee retrospectively would do nothing to stop the free internet protocol from proliferating as it did, however. Your linked to article is synonymous with that eventuality.
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Re: Anyone here got into cryptocurrencies ?

Post by ElectricMonk » Fri Dec 11, 2015 5:25 pm

It is obvious why governments hate cyptocurrencies. And it is far from clear with what right Australia is acting against the supposed creator - probably just to get their hands on his bitcoin-stach in order to fund back-ops operations...

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Re: Anyone here got into cryptocurrencies ?

Post by zeuzzz » Fri Dec 11, 2015 5:53 pm

The above post is a good one.

Matt; how do you square the off the record 'classified' projects governments fornicate themselves with vs the general populations equivalency based protocol?

Please reference your reply with laws; and how they relate. If you have followed Snowdens releases and Greenwalds journalism you'd know by now.

And bear in mind you are now on forum. Where all ideas are being played on a level playing field. Not in a court of 'law'.
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Re: Anyone here got into cryptocurrencies ?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sat Dec 12, 2015 4:10 am

zeuzzz wrote:Matt I'm confused about your position, because you are a tax collector, you see this as a positive step?
I am not a tax collector. I write reports on how to structure companies to obtain the best tax position or review activities to brief a prosecuting counsel. I also prepare a few client tax returns but not many as I'm semi retired and mostly do media financial work now.
zeuzzz wrote: Anyone cashing bitcoins out into a fiat currency can be taxed then. Plus you can check the blockchain with their addresses entire history of transactions.
Zeuzzz, you don't even know what "capital gains" tax is, so please don't try tell me about how tax on Bitcoins work. You seem to have forgotten that I posted the new legislation that was required to prosecute Craig Wright in this very thread, six months ago.
zeuzzz wrote:But the idea of crypto-currencies is not going away anytime soon. It's quite simple maths when you look into the encryption and the way the nodes work. And bitcoin is still holding court over all the alt' currencies.
Craig Wright was about to dump $400,000,000 on the market and collapse all other holders of Bitcoins. You really don't understand what has happened at all, do you?

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Re: Anyone here got into cryptocurrencies ?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sat Dec 12, 2015 4:26 am

ElectricMonk wrote:It is obvious why governments hate cyptocurrencies. And it is far from clear with what right Australia is acting against the supposed creator - probably just to get their hands on his bitcoin-stach in order to fund back-ops operations...
Actually, you should wait for the charges to be laid as there will be some surprises. Believe it or not the court has a duty to protect the value of "trade-able assets" (Bitcoins) against criminal activities, in the hands of other people. The government is actually helping Bitcoins survive, by arresting this bloke.

The simple reason governments hate international trade-able virtual currencies assets, is because it hinder monetary supply management at treasury. It also allows foreign countries to manipulate another country's economy through dumping. However this is "old law" as there are many forms of international trade-able assets.


The first step, that no one has picked up on, was for international government to agree to treat virtual currencies as mere assets. This means, legally, they should attract sales tax at purchase. As crypto-currencies also don't earn interest, this means a purchaser is losing money the very second he converts his normal currency into virtual currency.

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Re: Anyone here got into cryptocurrencies ?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sat Dec 12, 2015 4:28 am

zeuzzz wrote:Matt; how do you square the off the record 'classified' projects governments fornicate themselves with vs the general populations equivalency based protocol?
Can someone translate this sentence into English?

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Re: Anyone here got into cryptocurrencies ?

Post by Gord » Sat Dec 12, 2015 8:02 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
zeuzzz wrote:Matt; how do you square the off the record 'classified' projects governments fornicate themselves with vs the general populations equivalency based protocol?
Can someone translate this sentence into English?
I'll try!

[how do you square] [the off the record 'classified' projects] [governments fornicate themselves with] [vs] [the general populations] [equivalency based protocol]

square:
1) make compatible; reconcile.
"I'm able to square my profession with my religious beliefs"
2) be compatible.
"do those announcements really square with the facts?"

[how do you reconcile]

off the record:
1) not made as an official or attributable statement.
synonyms: unofficial, confidential, in (strict) confidence, not to be made public

[the unofficial 'classified' projects]

fornicate:
0) {!#%@}

{!#%@}:
0) screw

screw:
0) place in a difficult or hopeless situation; ruin or break.

[governments ruin themselves with]

vs:
0) misspelling of "vs."

[vs.]

populations
0) misspelling of "population's"

[the general population's]

equivalency based protocol:
0) ...yeah, no {!#%@} clue

[how do you reconcile] [the unofficial 'classified' projects] [governments ruin themselves with] [vs.] [the general population's] [equivalency based protocol]

Translation: How do you reconcile the unofficial 'classified' projects [that] governments ruin themselves with vs. the general population's "equivalency based protocol"?
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Re: Anyone here got into cryptocurrencies ?

Post by ElectricMonk » Sat Dec 12, 2015 9:24 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:Craig Wright was about to dump $400,000,000 on the market and collapse all other holders of Bitcoins. You really don't understand what has happened at all, do you?
Not sure where you are getting that, Matt.
True, he had a stash of coins he never sold (for a long time now), and at today's prices they would be worth that much - but there was no indication that he was about to sell any of it - unless you have other sources?

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Re: Anyone here got into cryptocurrencies ?

Post by zeuzzz » Sun Dec 13, 2015 6:30 pm

Gord; why the color palette of your avatar?

I'm confused.

If you are taking a moral equivalency of deaths by Islam you are misguided by the media; if that is your reason.

And thanks for dissecting my drunken post into a roughly translatable version :D
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Re: Anyone here got into cryptocurrencies ?

Post by zeuzzz » Sun Dec 13, 2015 6:36 pm

Matt: You say this person was taking money illegally, or off the record, so deserves to be jailed, or whatever.

How do you square with this black op operations now de-calissified from various leaks; that are also and equally (if not more, due to establishment implicity) illegal?
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Re: Anyone here got into cryptocurrencies ?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sun Dec 13, 2015 11:29 pm

zeuzzz wrote:Matt: You say this person was taking money illegally, or off the record, so deserves to be jailed, or whatever.
No. I'm saying he converted assets that he created with nil cost base into normal currency and evaded tax, by not declaring the capital gain. The legal issue is whether individual bit coins can be legally isolated as discreet assets (timing wise) and if not, he can not claim the 12 month ownership capital gain tax discount.

Tax treatment of crypto-currencies in Australia – specifically bitcoin
https://www.ato.gov.au/General/Gen/Tax- ... y-bitcoin/

TD 2014/25 ( Tax Determination No25 for the 2014 year)
Income tax: is bitcoin a 'foreign currency' for the purposes of Division 775 of the Income Tax Assessment Act 1997 ?
http://law.ato.gov.au/atolaw/view.htm?D ... /ATO/00001
zeuzzz wrote: How do you square with this black op operations now de-calissified from various leaks; that are also and equally (if not more, due to establishment implicity) illegal?
Please use English sentences.

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Re: Anyone here got into cryptocurrencies ?

Post by Frank Hoffman » Mon Dec 14, 2015 2:42 am

Matthew Ellard wrote: No. I'm saying he converted assets that he created with nil cost base into normal currency and evaded tax, by not declaring the capital gain. The legal issue is whether individual bit coins can be legally isolated as discreet assets (timing wise) and if not, he can not claim the 12 month ownership capital gain tax discount.
This is why I like this forum. I never even considered that as an issue when thinking about these currencies.

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Re: Anyone here got into cryptocurrencies ?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Dec 14, 2015 2:53 am

Frank Hoffman wrote: This is why I like this forum. I never even considered that as an issue when thinking about these currencies.
The world's longest and most costly tax case, was whether a cake in a cake tin, was a "cake" or a 'biscuit" or a "thing". The purpose was to end up with a "general ruling" that would settle ongoing VAT (sales tax definitions)

Enjoy!

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/vfoodman ... od6260.htm

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Re: Anyone here got into cryptocurrencies ?

Post by Gord » Mon Dec 14, 2015 4:35 am

Hey, I remember that one! The bitter jokes about cakes vs. biscuits kept showing up on TV shows back then.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
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Re: Anyone here got into cryptocurrencies ?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Dec 14, 2015 5:32 am

Gord wrote:Hey, I remember that one! The bitter jokes about cakes vs. biscuits kept showing up on TV shows back then.
Tax accounting is a blood thirsty, roller-coaster of highs and lows, fast cars, women and cake tins. :D

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Re: Anyone here got into cryptocurrencies ?

Post by Poodle » Mon Dec 14, 2015 11:17 am

It had to be done. I needed to know - I don't like cake.

I did, however, like Jaffa Cakes, thus proving that they're really biscuits.

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Re: Anyone here got into cryptocurrencies ?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:27 pm

Poodle wrote:It had to be done. I needed to know - I don't like cake. I did, however, like Jaffa Cakes, thus proving that they're really biscuits.
To me, these are obviously biscuits. You are I come from the same UK cultural heritage, but I would believe Americans would also call these biscuits.
jaffa_2565657b.jpg
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Re: Anyone here got into cryptocurrencies ?

Post by Gord » Tue Dec 15, 2015 6:24 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:To me, these are obviously biscuits. You are I come from the same UK cultural heritage
whut :|
but I would believe Americans would also call these biscuits.
Cookies. Americans would call them cookies.

And if I'm wrong about that, then Canadians would call them cookies.

And if I'm wrong about that, then Manitobans would call them cookies.

Somebody would goddam call them cookies!
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Re: Anyone here got into cryptocurrencies ?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Dec 15, 2015 6:34 am

Gord wrote: Cookies. Americans would call them cookies.
As you have probably worked out......I have never been to the USA.

Do Canadians say "biscuit" or "cookie"?
https://au.answers.yahoo.com/question/i ... 715AAenZvy

...no clear answer....

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Re: Anyone here got into cryptocurrencies ?

Post by Gord » Tue Dec 15, 2015 8:51 am

Actually, here you go, I agree with this Google search that's been limited to Canada: https://www.google.ca/search?q=cookie&o ... vs+biscuit

The cookie is flat, the biscuit is taller (like a bun).

And then there's this: http://www.nearof.com/?p=885
Review: Mr. Christie's Arrowroot Biscuits

Who in Canada doesn’t have childhood memories of chomping on Arrowroot cookies....
The company calls them "biscuits" but the reviewer calls the "cookies" without even quibbling. That's because, when you say "biscuit", we wait for more information to know whether you're talking about buns or cookies.

...hang on I've got the BBC News on behind me, and they just mentioned Jaffa Cakes. :shock: I don't know why; there's a Geico commercial on now.

Here it is. They're discussing the business of biscuits. They've got the chief exec of United Biscuits, who have just been acquired by a Turkish company.

Weird coincidence.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE
Is Trump in jail yet?

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Re: Anyone here got into cryptocurrencies ?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Dec 15, 2015 10:32 pm

Gord wrote:They've got the chief exec of United Biscuits, who have just been acquired by a Turkish company.
Turkish Biscuit Company to Buy United Biscuits
http://www.wsj.com/articles/turkish-com ... 1415020278
Well....since the Russians have bombed all the ISIS refineries, Turkey needs to get rid of all that illegal crude.
wm_pantbibwva_9583.jpg
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