The stoned ravings of the DMT brigade

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The stoned ravings of the DMT brigade

Post by zeuzzz » Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:33 pm

I smoked 60mg DMT last night just had to share the experience.

Firstly:

http://puttingtheeinjref.blogspot.co.uk ... chive.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
So what I am saying is that DMT is the most interesting of the psychedelics because more scientific issues are raised by it than any other. Lets run over a few of them; DMT is the strongest hallucinogen there is, if its possible to get more loaded than that, I don't want to know about it, keep it away from me. It's also the shortest acting, DMT when smoked most people are back to normal within 10-20 minutes. People that think there is nothing to this should invest these ten minutes to find out what its all about, which is probably worth more than 20 years of academic pharmacology, art history, psychology or neurophysiology. Another very interesting thing about it is that it occurs naturally in the human brain, and all mammalian blood. So I'm saying that the strongest drug, the fastest drug and the most profound is the most natural drug. It means you don't have to sail off into 4-hydroxy-4-pyroldeindole-N-methyl-rhubarb-berrubistik to get into the exotic realms, no, a simple human metabolite which takes only ten minutes to undergo it's entire exfoliation and quenching is the strongest of all.

Our bodies containing this active psychoactive, is highly illegal according to the state definition. Lock yourself up, you would almost certainly fail a blood test for DMT. Anyone with phalaris in their garden is technically producing this scheduled drug. Science is a lot more accommodating, and it's been deemed a fruitful area of scientific inquiry, even though work has only begun properly a year or so ago into it’s possible role and effects.
So I exhaled the third toke on my DMT loaded spliff. The room started warping, distorting, and eventually the ceiling came down to touch the floor and opening my eyes became pointless. My room was alive with what I can only describe as self transforming elf machines, like sprites made of syntactical color and curiosity. I shut my eyes and saw what can only be described as concentric diamonds of light and beauty, every color of the rainbow, fractal like in their geometry. And there was a feeling of tearing, like breaking through a wall. Everything parted and I was there. Afficandos call this the dome, and where it is I can not say, it's an internal place not a real world external place, but people who are in the know know exactly what you mean when you describe it like this. But there is a distinct impression of being underground, a feeling of having an incredible mass above myself.

I was surrounded by these chattering sprites that were most curious about me being there. They were jumping in and out of my chest, and speaking to me in a rich tapestry of syn-esthetic visual language. "Hello again you come so rarely you bring so many" they said to me in a mixture of rainbow colored visually beheld syntax. At this point I got a little nervous, as they were giving me the impression that I had to do something but I did not know what. This pressure built up until I did what they seemed to be implying and started singing (I do not know if I actually was singing in real life or just in the trip).

At this point a myriad of beams of glistening light burst out of my mouth and changed the entire vibrancy of the room, I was no longer a person in a body but felt like a radio intellect, made much more of the stuff of fields than of ordinary matter. The entire room glistened with this new found color and I heard these sprites applauding my achievement.

All of a sudden I went deeper, the top of the cave pulled apart and ripped, and I was flying down what looked like a kaleidoscope of diamonds. I felt my body being ripped in every single direction. Instead of being unpleasant I felt my self expanding, until I distinctly remember becoming the entire universe and looking in at everyone. Suspended in time and space I seemed aware of everything, everything was alive and even mechanistic star system seemed to me to be alive and just small aspects of this universe of incredible complexity and mystery. It seemed to me that consciousness is an emergent property of any sufficiently complex system, not just biological. Eventually it started wearing off, and within ten minutes I was able to open my eyes and rejoin with the external world. Within 20 minutes I was completely back to normal. The great thing about DMT is that the body knows exactly what to do with it, as it's a naturally occurring endogenous neurochemical.

And there I conclude the stoned raving of the DMT brigade. :mrgreen:

Anyone else tried this stuff?
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Re: The stoned ravings of the DMT brigade

Post by Pyrrho » Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:57 pm

Meh. Reads like pure BS. My bet is you fell asleep and burned your mattress. Enjoy the brain damage while it lasts...that is, assuming you really ever indulge in hallucinogens and other forms of self destruction, such as publicly outing yourself as a buyer and user of controlled substances. Brilliant move.
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Re: The stoned ravings of the DMT brigade

Post by Major Malfunction » Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:15 pm

I dunno what you're smoking, but it ain't DMT. You don't smoke it. My guess is meth.
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Re: The stoned ravings of the DMT brigade

Post by fromthehills » Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:20 pm

I did a few things in my hedonistic 20s, never DMT. I'm really happy that I prefer beer, and made it out with my brain generally intact. A lot of old hippies I see around aren't doing so well mentally ( or financially ), and are quite unstable.
I dunno what you're smoking, but it ain't DMT. You don't smoke it. My guess is meth.
I've seen some people smoke it. Looked pretty stupid. A hit or two, they appear to just go unconscious for 20-30 seconds, and come to looking quite confused.

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Re: The stoned ravings of the DMT brigade

Post by Major Malfunction » Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:57 pm

Probably just not used to inhaling carbon monoxide.
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Re: The stoned ravings of the DMT brigade

Post by Daedalus » Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:02 pm

Pyrrho wrote:Meh. Reads like pure BS. My bet is you fell asleep and burned your mattress. Enjoy the brain damage while it lasts...that is, assuming you really ever indulge in hallucinogens and other forms of self destruction, such as publicly outing yourself as a buyer and user of controlled substances. Brilliant move.
The reality is that given his feeble wits, he could have farted out that page of nonsense without the help of any drugs at all. :lol:
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Re: The stoned ravings of the DMT brigade

Post by Major Malfunction » Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:06 pm

Yeah. Sounds to me like a teenager that would like to.
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Re: The stoned ravings of the DMT brigade

Post by Character_Assassin » Sun Jul 14, 2013 6:33 pm

Major Malfunction wrote:I dunno what you're smoking, but it ain't DMT. You don't smoke it. My guess is meth.
Yes, smoking is just one of the ways to consume it.

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dmt/dmt_info1.shtml#2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: The stoned ravings of the DMT brigade

Post by Character_Assassin » Sun Jul 14, 2013 6:34 pm

Pyrrho wrote:Meh. Reads like pure BS. My bet is you fell asleep and burned your mattress. Enjoy the brain damage while it lasts...that is, assuming you really ever indulge in hallucinogens and other forms of self destruction, such as publicly outing yourself as a buyer and user of controlled substances. Brilliant move.
How does the use of a hallucinogen equate to 'self destruction'?

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Re: The stoned ravings of the DMT brigade

Post by Daedalus » Sun Jul 14, 2013 7:12 pm

Character_Assassin wrote:
Pyrrho wrote:Meh. Reads like pure BS. My bet is you fell asleep and burned your mattress. Enjoy the brain damage while it lasts...that is, assuming you really ever indulge in hallucinogens and other forms of self destruction, such as publicly outing yourself as a buyer and user of controlled substances. Brilliant move.
How does the use of a hallucinogen equate to 'self destruction'?
You do run the risk of permanent and unpredictable adverse effects. Still, I'm with Major, I don't think our silly friend did anything other than imagine some crap and write what he thinks he should.

He's an inauthentic as he is dim.
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Re: The stoned ravings of the DMT brigade

Post by zeuzzz » Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:12 pm

Major Malfunction wrote:I dunno what you're smoking, but it ain't DMT. You don't smoke it. My guess is meth.
I vaporized the first part at 80C (DMT melts at 60C) and took a few tokes on the joint to finish it off I hadn't quite broken through.
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Re: The stoned ravings of the DMT brigade

Post by Pyrrho » Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:14 pm

Character_Assassin wrote:
Pyrrho wrote:Meh. Reads like pure BS. My bet is you fell asleep and burned your mattress. Enjoy the brain damage while it lasts...that is, assuming you really ever indulge in hallucinogens and other forms of self destruction, such as publicly outing yourself as a buyer and user of controlled substances. Brilliant move.
How does the use of a hallucinogen equate to 'self destruction'?
Oh, ingesting a substance of dubious provenance that causes symptoms that would otherwise be regarded as manifestations of a severe medical condition would be one act of self destruction. Making public posts identifying one's self as a procurer and user of illegal drugs is another.
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Re: The stoned ravings of the DMT brigade

Post by zeuzzz » Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:18 pm

DMT is ubiquitous throughout nature and the human brain. It causes no damage, no lasting effects, is legally allowed in Brazil as a cure for people addicted to addictive drugs, and in centuries of use there has never been a reported death from using it. As I said before, it's the strongest yet safest hallucinogen known to man, our body already metabolizes it every night when we sleep and whilst we slip between REM and SWS (slow wave sleep) cyclically to produce dreams*, so it knows exactly what to do with it.

What other endogenous hallucinogens do you think produce the imagery of dreams? So far, this is by far the best bet.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3412201" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Med Hypotheses. 1988 Jun;26(2):119-24.
A proposed mechanism for the visions of dream sleep.
Callaway JC.

Abstract

The visions of dream sleep are suggested to occur through a dream mechanism which implicates tryptamine derivatives as endogenous paychedelics. The hallucinations that occur in some schizophrenic syndromes are also proposed to occur through a similar, though desynchronized, mechanism. These compounds occur in the human pineal gland and are regarded as neurotransmitters or neuroregulators. A protocol for experimental verification is suggested.
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Re: The stoned ravings of the DMT brigade

Post by zeuzzz » Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:21 pm

Pyrrho wrote: Oh, ingesting a substance of dubious provenance that causes symptoms that would otherwise be regarded as manifestations of a severe medical condition would be one act of self destruction. Making public posts identifying one's self as a procurer and user of illegal drugs is another.
Essentially all I did it elevate the amount of an endogenous neurochemical we all use every night when we sleep. Can't see the harm in that.
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Re: The stoned ravings of the DMT brigade

Post by fromthehills » Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:23 pm

Character_Assassin wrote:
Pyrrho wrote:Meh. Reads like pure BS. My bet is you fell asleep and burned your mattress. Enjoy the brain damage while it lasts...that is, assuming you really ever indulge in hallucinogens and other forms of self destruction, such as publicly outing yourself as a buyer and user of controlled substances. Brilliant move.
How does the use of a hallucinogen equate to 'self destruction'?

Also read my personal observances of hippies. Sure, in the short term light user there isn't a lot of self destruction. In the long term, though, I'm not seeing any benefits. There are some really messed up people that wouldn't last 2 minutes in functioning society.

Check out the long term effects of professional fighters. The brain gets knocked around enough, and soon the fighter isn't mentally functioning very well. With multiple "trips" the effect isn't very different.

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Re: The stoned ravings of the DMT brigade

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:33 pm

zeuzzz wrote:
Pyrrho wrote: Oh, ingesting a substance of dubious provenance that causes symptoms that would otherwise be regarded as manifestations of a severe medical condition would be one act of self destruction. Making public posts identifying one's self as a procurer and user of illegal drugs is another.
Essentially all I did it elevate the amount of an endogenous neurochemical we all use every night when we sleep. Can't see the harm in that.
Sure, "no harm" in elevating or diminishing anything that is useful or required in it's naturally occurring balanced amount in a system. :roll:

You seem to have done such to yourself too much already...
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Re: The stoned ravings of the DMT brigade

Post by fromthehills » Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:40 pm

It's the Naturalistic fallacy that many pot users pull. The notion that natural means good. They rarely know the fact that arsenic is natural, e coli is natural, and so are cancers.

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Re: The stoned ravings of the DMT brigade

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:46 pm

And the typical tactic of using half truths and misinformation... from the OP:
Anyone with phalaris in their garden is technically producing this scheduled drug.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phalaris_% ... #Alkaloids" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Phalaris arundinacea, Phalaris aquatica, and Phalaris brachystachys are known to contain the alkaloids N,N-DMT, 5-MeO-DMT, and 5-OH-DMT.
It appears that not all but only some species of that grass contain the alkaloid, so such sweeping statements as above would be incorrect.
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Re: The stoned ravings of the DMT brigade

Post by Monster » Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:34 pm

zeuzzz wrote: Essentially all I did it elevate the amount of an endogenous neurochemical we all use every night when we sleep. Can't see the harm in that.
I'm sorry, but that's dumb.

Hydrochloric acid is in your stomach, and thus, it's totally natural. Maybe you should drink tons of it?

Testosterone is totally natural, so maybe you should take a heaping injection of it?
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Re: The stoned ravings of the DMT brigade

Post by Daedalus » Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:38 pm

Pyrrho wrote:
Character_Assassin wrote:
Pyrrho wrote:Meh. Reads like pure BS. My bet is you fell asleep and burned your mattress. Enjoy the brain damage while it lasts...that is, assuming you really ever indulge in hallucinogens and other forms of self destruction, such as publicly outing yourself as a buyer and user of controlled substances. Brilliant move.
How does the use of a hallucinogen equate to 'self destruction'?
Oh, ingesting a substance of dubious provenance that causes symptoms that would otherwise be regarded as manifestations of a severe medical condition would be one act of self destruction. Making public posts identifying one's self as a procurer and user of illegal drugs is another.
The upside is that as he fries what little he has in the way of brains, nothing of value is lost.
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Re: The stoned ravings of the DMT brigade

Post by Character_Assassin » Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:40 pm

Pyrrho wrote:
Character_Assassin wrote:
Pyrrho wrote:Meh. Reads like pure BS. My bet is you fell asleep and burned your mattress. Enjoy the brain damage while it lasts...that is, assuming you really ever indulge in hallucinogens and other forms of self destruction, such as publicly outing yourself as a buyer and user of controlled substances. Brilliant move.
How does the use of a hallucinogen equate to 'self destruction'?
Oh, ingesting a substance of dubious provenance that causes symptoms that would otherwise be regarded as manifestations of a severe medical condition would be one act of self destruction. Making public posts identifying one's self as a procurer and user of illegal drugs is another.
So, IOW, the use of hallucinogenics is not actually rationally seen as 'self destruction' at all; you just don't happen to like the idea.

Thanks for clearing that up.

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Re: The stoned ravings of the DMT brigade

Post by Character_Assassin » Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:45 pm

fromthehills wrote:
Character_Assassin wrote:
Pyrrho wrote:Meh. Reads like pure BS. My bet is you fell asleep and burned your mattress. Enjoy the brain damage while it lasts...that is, assuming you really ever indulge in hallucinogens and other forms of self destruction, such as publicly outing yourself as a buyer and user of controlled substances. Brilliant move.
How does the use of a hallucinogen equate to 'self destruction'?

Also read my personal observances of hippies. Sure, in the short term light user there isn't a lot of self destruction. In the long term, though, I'm not seeing any benefits. There are some really messed up people that wouldn't last 2 minutes in functioning society.
So, again, the simple use of hallucinogenics is not actually self-destruction.

And I'm well aware of hippies, having grown up in Big Sur. There are plenty I've met who contradict what you're citing as your personal experience.

Check out the long term effects of professional fighters. The brain gets knocked around enough, and soon the fighter isn't mentally functioning very well. With multiple "trips" the effect isn't very different.
Uh, yeah. I think I'll actually compare apples to apples, and only when/if actual data becomes available that can be reasonably used to compare those who suffered a life of continual blunt-force trauma to the head and those who've tripped more than once.

* facepalm *

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Re: The stoned ravings of the DMT brigade

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:59 pm

Character_Assassin wrote:How does the use of a hallucinogen equate to 'self destruction'?
If I understand correctly, the hallucinogen DMT is a neurotransmitter/neuromodulator.
DMT occurs in trace amounts in mammals, including humans, where it putatively functions as a trace amine neurotransmitter/neuromodulator.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyltryptamine" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Is there not a danger in the overuse of such?
Neurotransmitter receptors are subject to ligand-induced desensitization: That is, they can become unresponsive upon prolonged exposure to their neurotransmitter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurotrans ... centration" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: The stoned ravings of the DMT brigade

Post by Character_Assassin » Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:15 am

scrmbldggs wrote:
Character_Assassin wrote:How does the use of a hallucinogen equate to 'self destruction'?
If I understand correctly, the hallucinogen DMT is a neurotransmitter/neuromodulator.
DMT occurs in trace amounts in mammals, including humans, where it putatively functions as a trace amine neurotransmitter/neuromodulator.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyltryptamine" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I think in terms of the this discussion, that may amount to a distinction w/out a difference.

Is there not a danger in the overuse of such?
Neurotransmitter receptors are subject to ligand-induced desensitization: That is, they can become unresponsive upon prolonged exposure to their neurotransmitter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurotrans ... centration" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I'm sure that there might be w/'overuse'

However, the claim that I was responding to was that ANY use of such compounds/chemicals was tantamount to 'self destruction'.

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Re: The stoned ravings of the DMT brigade

Post by scrmbldggs » Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:32 am

I agree that a one time or occasional use might not pose a great threat, depending on what it is. It even is done for scientific research it seems. This poster, however, already stated elsewhere that he "has DMT nearly all the time".
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Re: The stoned ravings of the DMT brigade

Post by Pyrrho » Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:45 am

Character_Assassin wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:
Character_Assassin wrote:How does the use of a hallucinogen equate to 'self destruction'?
If I understand correctly, the hallucinogen DMT is a neurotransmitter/neuromodulator.
DMT occurs in trace amounts in mammals, including humans, where it putatively functions as a trace amine neurotransmitter/neuromodulator.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyltryptamine" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I think in terms of the this discussion, that may amount to a distinction w/out a difference.

Is there not a danger in the overuse of such?
Neurotransmitter receptors are subject to ligand-induced desensitization: That is, they can become unresponsive upon prolonged exposure to their neurotransmitter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurotrans ... centration" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I'm sure that there might be w/'overuse'

However, the claim that I was responding to was that ANY use of such compounds/chemicals was tantamount to 'self destruction'.
Well...whatever. Having seen the ravages of drug abuse, I am not inclined to think of it any other way. You only think you know what you're using to screw around with the normal function of your brain and nervous system. I do not see how such behavior can be construed as anything but self destructive. In very real terms you are vacating the premises of your own mind by using drugs whose true content and full effect you really do not know. It is self-destructive behavior. Sure, that is my subjective opinion. If that bothers you, good. I hope I am ruining your drug habit.
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Re: The stoned ravings of the DMT brigade

Post by Pyrrho » Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:48 am

Character_Assassin wrote:
Pyrrho wrote:
Character_Assassin wrote:
Pyrrho wrote:Meh. Reads like pure BS. My bet is you fell asleep and burned your mattress. Enjoy the brain damage while it lasts...that is, assuming you really ever indulge in hallucinogens and other forms of self destruction, such as publicly outing yourself as a buyer and user of controlled substances. Brilliant move.
How does the use of a hallucinogen equate to 'self destruction'?
Oh, ingesting a substance of dubious provenance that causes symptoms that would otherwise be regarded as manifestations of a severe medical condition would be one act of self destruction. Making public posts identifying one's self as a procurer and user of illegal drugs is another.
So, IOW, the use of hallucinogenics is not actually rationally seen as 'self destruction' at all; you just don't happen to like the idea.

Thanks for clearing that up.
No, I do not like the idea. I think it is an exercise in profound idiocy. I think you are stupid for using them and for abusing your brain in such a manner. Best of luck, and stay the hell off the roads, drug addict.
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Re: The stoned ravings of the DMT brigade

Post by Pyrrho » Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:50 am

Character_Assassin wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:
Character_Assassin wrote:How does the use of a hallucinogen equate to 'self destruction'?
If I understand correctly, the hallucinogen DMT is a neurotransmitter/neuromodulator.
DMT occurs in trace amounts in mammals, including humans, where it putatively functions as a trace amine neurotransmitter/neuromodulator.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyltryptamine" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I think in terms of the this discussion, that may amount to a distinction w/out a difference.

Is there not a danger in the overuse of such?
Neurotransmitter receptors are subject to ligand-induced desensitization: That is, they can become unresponsive upon prolonged exposure to their neurotransmitter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurotrans ... centration" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I'm sure that there might be w/'overuse'

However, the claim that I was responding to was that ANY use of such compounds/chemicals was tantamount to 'self destruction'.
Not exactly what I wrote, drug addict.
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Re: The stoned ravings of the DMT brigade

Post by Austin Harper » Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:19 am

zeuzzz wrote:
Pyrrho wrote: Oh, ingesting a substance of dubious provenance that causes symptoms that would otherwise be regarded as manifestations of a severe medical condition would be one act of self destruction. Making public posts identifying one's self as a procurer and user of illegal drugs is another.
Essentially all I did it elevate the amount of an endogenous neurochemical we all use every night when we sleep. Can't see the harm in that.
And all cocaine does is increase neurotransmitter activity in the brain!
fromthehills wrote:It's the Naturalistic fallacy that many pot users pull. The notion that natural means good. They rarely know the fact that arsenic is natural, e coli is natural, and so are cancers.
My favorite retort to people who use a product because it is natural is, "You know what else is natural? Sharks and syphilis."
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Re: The stoned ravings of the DMT brigade

Post by Daedalus » Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:28 am

Austin Harper wrote:
zeuzzz wrote:
Pyrrho wrote: Oh, ingesting a substance of dubious provenance that causes symptoms that would otherwise be regarded as manifestations of a severe medical condition would be one act of self destruction. Making public posts identifying one's self as a procurer and user of illegal drugs is another.
Essentially all I did it elevate the amount of an endogenous neurochemical we all use every night when we sleep. Can't see the harm in that.
And all cocaine does is increase neurotransmitter activity in the brain!
fromthehills wrote:It's the Naturalistic fallacy that many pot users pull. The notion that natural means good. They rarely know the fact that arsenic is natural, e coli is natural, and so are cancers.
My favorite retort to people who use a product because it is natural is, "You know what else is natural? Sharks and syphilis."
...And lightning, and arsenic, and TTX...

In fact most natural things kill us outright.
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Re: The stoned ravings of the DMT brigade

Post by Character_Assassin » Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:43 am

Pyrrho wrote:
Character_Assassin wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:
Character_Assassin wrote:How does the use of a hallucinogen equate to 'self destruction'?
If I understand correctly, the hallucinogen DMT is a neurotransmitter/neuromodulator.
DMT occurs in trace amounts in mammals, including humans, where it putatively functions as a trace amine neurotransmitter/neuromodulator.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyltryptamine" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I think in terms of the this discussion, that may amount to a distinction w/out a difference.

Is there not a danger in the overuse of such?
Neurotransmitter receptors are subject to ligand-induced desensitization: That is, they can become unresponsive upon prolonged exposure to their neurotransmitter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurotrans ... centration" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I'm sure that there might be w/'overuse'

However, the claim that I was responding to was that ANY use of such compounds/chemicals was tantamount to 'self destruction'.
Not exactly what I wrote, drug addict.
.
It's exactly what you implied.

And 'drug addict'? No, just someone who likes rational thought and conclusions based on real data, eschewing outbursts based on emotion.

Don't worry your little head about it, Honey. It's nothing you're likely to understand.

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Re: The stoned ravings of the DMT brigade

Post by Daedalus » Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:47 am

Character_Assassin wrote:It's exactly what you implied.

And 'drug addict'? No, just someone who likes rational thought and conclusions based on real data, eschewing outbursts based on emotion.

Don't worry your little head about it, Honey. It's nothing you're likely to understand.
I have to be honest, I don't see how he implied that. Given what he actually said, you seem overly defensive especially given Zeuzzz's clear posting that he uses DMT all of the time, in addition to other drugs.

By definition, that is NOT responsible use of anything.
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Re: The stoned ravings of the DMT brigade

Post by Character_Assassin » Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:58 am

Daedalus wrote:
Character_Assassin wrote:It's exactly what you implied.

And 'drug addict'? No, just someone who likes rational thought and conclusions based on real data, eschewing outbursts based on emotion.

Don't worry your little head about it, Honey. It's nothing you're likely to understand.
I have to be honest, I don't see how he implied that. Given what he actually said, you seem overly defensive especially given Zeuzzz's clear posting that he uses DMT all of the time, in addition to other drugs.
Well, given that this was the statement: "that is, assuming you really ever indulge in hallucinogens and other forms of self destruction", that's pretty much an affirmation that any use of a hallucinogen is 'self destruction'.

By definition, that is NOT responsible use of anything.
I'm not defending Zeuzzz's use or abuse of anything, or interested in his habits. I'm simply questioning the statement and bare assertion that the use of a hallucinogen is 'self destruction'.

There's nothing particularly defensive about addressing nonsensical statements and expecting answers that don't amount to emotional outbursts and childish accusations like 'drug addict', etc...

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Re: The stoned ravings of the DMT brigade

Post by Pyrrho » Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:10 am

Nothing emotional or childish about it. I am approaching this from a fully adult perspective, whereas the two of you have been approaching it with immaturity, arrogance, and no small amount of obsession. There is a problem and it is not because I do not like to see people destroy themselves by means of drug abuse. You may or may not choose to rationalize the use of hallucinogens by denying that using them is the abuse of drugs and is therefore not self-destructive behavior. Yet, it remains self-destructive behavior: you do not really know what those substances are doing to your body. You ignore the risks in favor of whatever temporary experience is brought on by the drug's toxicity and talk about how wonderful it is. Your mind is already screwed up and you don't even realize it, or if you do, you ignore that in favor of the drug. It is manifestly self-destructive behavior.

Also, I am under no obligation to make your experience here at all pleasant while you extol the virtues of DMT and/or other methods of poisoning one's body, your rationalizations about how harmless you think it is notwithstanding.

I would have to agree that the "blaming and shaming" approach regarding drug abusers is usually not effective, so I would also have to agree that using the term "drug addict" is probably not advisable. Nonetheless, the signs of psychological addiction or psychological dependency are evident in the obsessive behavior--zeuzzz just can't seem to stop talking about it. A blog is not enough; he has to find forums on which to expand his advocacy for DMT. Then there are the rationalizations. These are warning signs that are being ignored, but not by me.

Regarding this:
Well, given that this was the statement: "that is, assuming you really ever indulge in hallucinogens and other forms of self destruction", that's pretty much an affirmation that any use of a hallucinogen is 'self destruction'.
You are looking for a meaning that you can object to. You want me to have claimed that any use of a hallucinogen is self-destructive behavior, which I did not claim. Certainly there are uses within the structure of clinical studies that might not be construed as self-destructive behavior. What I refer to here is the habitual use of hallucinogens. As with anything else, I suppose the destructive behavior lies in the way a person uses hallucinogens, just as there may or may not be self-destruction in the use of alcohol. I see the use of hallucinogens as a foolish risk, which I contend to be self-destructive, although I am sure there are people who resort to such things in order to escape the pain of a miserable existence.

It should be clear at this point that I will not agree with assertions that drug abuse is harmless. I will not sit back and let you feel safe and comfortable about it. You are endangering yourself. Stop doing drugs.
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Re: The stoned ravings of the DMT brigade

Post by Pyrrho » Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:19 am

Regarding my alleged lack of experience in these matters: my brother was a drug dealer. A cheap, petty, small, locker-room drug dealer, but a drug dealer nonethless, and he kept the {!#%@} in our room. The usual insanity occurred, with the exception of legal entanglements. One of the neighbors across the way was a drug dealer, too, and he got shot dead in his own driveway one sunny afternoon.

One of my brother's kids became one too. He got caught.

Be assured that my brother was all adamant and stuff about how harmless it all was. I'm sure he believes that even now, and he probably believed that when he aimed my father's automatic at me one fine evening.

Oh, wait, you will say that "Well, THOSE drugs were not hallucinogens!"

Doesn't matter. The basic principle is the same.

Do not assume that I am approaching this from an hysterical emotional state derived from past trauma. This is reality, folks, and I am not telling all of it. I am telling you this because drug abusers tend to leave out these trifling little details.
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Re: The stoned ravings of the DMT brigade

Post by Major Malfunction » Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:36 am

It's a nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there.

I think everyone should try various drugs some time in their life.

Try it, and then come back home the wiser.
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Re: The stoned ravings of the DMT brigade

Post by zeuzzz » Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:24 pm

Pyrrho wrote:Regarding my alleged lack of experience in these matters: my brother was a drug dealer. A cheap, petty, small, locker-room drug dealer, but a drug dealer nonethless, and he kept the {!#%@} in our room. The usual insanity occurred, with the exception of legal entanglements. One of the neighbors across the way was a drug dealer, too, and he got shot dead in his own driveway one sunny afternoon.

One of my brother's kids became one too. He got caught.
That is extremely unfortunate. Without wanting to cast aspersion on him or you I presume this was either cannabis or stimulants? I am hoping it was not opiates or other addictive downers ... they are the scourge of the drug world. And the fact that psychedelics like mushrooms and DMT are in the same drug classification makes the drug laws even more of a joke than they are currently.

If so the former is generally ok if you are not abusing it but using it responsibly. The later is an addictive psycho-stimulant with all sorts of problems, which is why I avoid it. There is a clear difference between the two, despite what the ridiculous anti-science anti-evidence drug laws state.

I do not want to raise DMT to some sort of special place here, that's why I called this thread what I did, it's much more the stoned ravings of a single person than some sort of definitive summary of DMTs effects. It's merely an extremely potent yet extremely short acting psychedelic. And is the safest of the lot, you will hear all kinds of horror stories about people who did LSD too much and it screwed with their heads (very long plasma half-life of 5.1 hours), etc, but you will be extremely hard pressed to find any horror stories of DMT abuse.

I will address you other incorrect point about it messing with your brain by referencing Charles Grobs studies into the tribes in the amazon who use it weekly and are in perfect health (some might say better mental health) compared to non users in a subsequent post.
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Re: The stoned ravings of the DMT brigade

Post by zeuzzz » Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:27 pm

SOURCE: http://puttingtheeinjref.blogspot.co.uk ... drugs.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


CREDIT: Terence Mckenna.
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Re: The stoned ravings of the DMT brigade

Post by Character_Assassin » Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:41 pm

Pyrrho wrote:Nothing emotional or childish about it. I am approaching this from a fully adult perspective, whereas the two of you have been approaching it with immaturity, arrogance, and no small amount of obsession.
How quaintly childish and dishonest. If you're going to lie about what I've said and the nature of it, why even bother?

There is a problem and it is not because I do not like to see people destroy themselves by means of drug abuse. You may or may not choose to rationalize the use of hallucinogens by denying that using them is the abuse of drugs and is therefore not self-destructive behavior.
I have rationalized no behavior. I've simply asked a question and watched you melt down into an emotional train-wreck, full of bluster and froth, but utterly devoid of anything approaching intellectual honesty.

And conflating 'use' with 'abuse' is what you're doing.

Yet, it remains self-destructive behavior: you do not really know what those substances are doing to your body. You ignore the risks in favor of whatever temporary experience is brought on by the drug's toxicity and talk about how wonderful it is. Your mind is already screwed up and you don't even realize it, or if you do, you ignore that in favor of the drug. It is manifestly self-destructive behavior.
Tell me, what's the toxicity of, say, LSD? Please be very specific.

Also, I am under no obligation to make your experience here at all pleasant while you extol the virtues of DMT and/or other methods of poisoning one's body, your rationalizations about how harmless you think it is notwithstanding.
Yawn. More rankly dishonest nonsense from you. I haven't extolled the virtues of anything here, including drug use and/or DMT, nor have I made any rationalizations. Perhaps you might consider knowing what words actually mean before attempting to use them?

And you still haven't demonstrated how the use of any hallucinogen is 'poisoning one's body'. You've simply blathered on about potential deleterious effects.

I would have to agree that the "blaming and shaming" approach regarding drug abusers is usually not effective, so I would also have to agree that using the term "drug addict" is probably not advisable. Nonetheless, the signs of psychological addiction or psychological dependency are evident in the obsessive behavior--zeuzzz just can't seem to stop talking about it. A blog is not enough; he has to find forums on which to expand his advocacy for DMT. Then there are the rationalizations. These are warning signs that are being ignored, but not by me.
And? I'm not disputing that, and it's quite irrelevant to what I've posted.

Regarding this:
Well, given that this was the statement: "that is, assuming you really ever indulge in hallucinogens and other forms of self destruction", that's pretty much an affirmation that any use of a hallucinogen is 'self destruction'.
You are looking for a meaning that you can object to. You want me to have claimed that any use of a hallucinogen is self-destructive behavior, which I did not claim.
Speaking of rationalizations.....

I'm not looking for anything in particular to object to. I addressed precisely what you stated and you did claim that the use of a hallucinogen is self-destructive. Period.

Certainly there are uses within the structure of clinical studies that might not be construed as self-destructive behavior. What I refer to here is the habitual use of hallucinogens.
But, of course, that's not actually what you originally said, now is it?

As with anything else, I suppose the destructive behavior lies in the way a person uses hallucinogens, just as there may or may not be self-destruction in the use of alcohol. I see the use of hallucinogens as a foolish risk, which I contend to be self-destructive, although I am sure there are people who resort to such things in order to escape the pain of a miserable existence.

It should be clear at this point that I will not agree with assertions that drug abuse is harmless. I will not sit back and let you feel safe and comfortable about it. You are endangering yourself. Stop doing drugs.
** facepalm **

You got going with something approaching rationality, and then you fall back into what appears to be near pathological dishonesty.

Let me make it clear for you, since you seem intellectually incapable or unwilling to grasp this very simple concept: I have not asserted that drug abuse is harmless. You are lying about what I've stated. I have nothing to 'feel comfortable about' since I have made no such assertion or statement.

Stop being a liar, or at least try and be a better one, child.

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Re: The stoned ravings of the DMT brigade

Post by Daedalus » Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:08 pm

zeuzzz wrote:blahblahblahblahaassdfasdfasdf
Seriously, you need to stop spamming your blog, and you REALLY need to stop plagiarizing.
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