The Associated Press

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Tom Palven
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The Associated Press

Post by Tom Palven » Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:55 am

There are two AP articles on the Assange capture in today's Times-Union, Jacksonville, FL. one by Joshua Goodman and Christine Armario which cite damning information about Assange "according to a senior government official who wasn't authorized to discuss the matter and spoke on condition of anonymity." and one by Eric Tucker and Ben Fox who quote "a U.S.official, speaking on conditions of anonymity to discuss internal and legal matters..."

Typical sycophantic BS from the US MSM.
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Re: The Associated Press

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:20 pm

Why do you call this MSM rather than the AP?
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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Tom Palven » Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:53 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:20 pm
Why do you call this MSM rather than the AP?
I guess because the AP seems fairly representative of all the US mainstream print and TV media which, at the behest of the deep state powers-that-be, glorify populist neocons like warmongering John McCain and vilify investigative journalism, and which most Americans and Canadians, even those who are supposedly skeptics, seem to buy into like sheep being led to slaughter, imho.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: The Associated Press

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:59 am

I agree with your characterization: the very reason you should say AP and not the much wider MSM. In general: the wider MSM gave first hand accounts and video of the arrest as well as continuing background information on what is in the seal indictments.

No reason to run with a pack when you can think for yourself.
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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Tom Palven » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:30 am

Here's an example of slant from NPR, effectively behaving like the AP and other MSM:
www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featu ... h-of-evil/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Tom Palven » Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:36 am

Congrats to the AP for this article on a major MIC/deep state ally:
https://www.usnews.com/news/world/artic ... ism-crimes
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Re: The Associated Press

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:17 am

Are you so inside your own head you don't realize no one should know what "MIC" means?..........or am I too inside my head because I don't?

It could almost be justified if the term was in the link.....but my quick review did not show that term. Abbreviations make sense when they closely follow the predicate which IS IMPOSSIBLE when it is introducing a subject. Man in Charge is my best guess except that is not "well known" so I doubt it. Microphone: also not likely.

Why do you force yourself on us?
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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Tom Palven » Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:40 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:17 am
Are you so inside your own head you don't realize no one should know what "MIC" means?..........or am I too inside my head because I don't?

It could almost be justified if the term was in the link.....but my quick review did not show that term. Abbreviations make sense when they closely follow the predicate which IS IMPOSSIBLE when it is introducing a subject. Man in Charge is my best guess except that is not "well known" so I doubt it. Microphone: also not likely.

Why do you force yourself on us?
MIC refers to the Military Industrial Complex, which General Eisenhower first described:
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=ei ... &FORM=VIRE
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Re: The Associated Press

Post by ElectricMonk » Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:48 am

The military wants to get out of the MIC and has for a long time - just in a way that doesn't compromise force effectiveness.
But they bitterly complain about being burdened with nuclear silos, tanks and fighter planes they have to buy and maintain because lobbyists tell politicians so.
I think the Media should replace the Military, especially the Fox and Sinclair Broadcasting group.

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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Tom Palven » Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:57 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:17 am
Are you so inside your own head you don't realize no one should know what "MIC" means?..........or am I too inside my head because I don't?

It could almost be justified if the term was in the link.....but my quick review did not show that term. Abbreviations make sense when they closely follow the predicate which IS IMPOSSIBLE when it is introducing a subject. Man in Charge is my best guess except that is not "well known" so I doubt it. Microphone: also not likely.

Why do you force yourself on us?
MIC refers to the Military Industrial Complex, which General Eisenhower first described:
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=ei ... &FORM=VIRE
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Tom Palven » Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:18 pm

No comment or acknowledgement, bobbo?
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: The Associated Press

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:05 pm

Usually I hover so I can respond asap as I know so many lives depend on it. But right now I'm fighting with my computer over how it decides to allow sound to be played out of various devices. It has no logic that I can see. Settings that work one hour don't work the next hour. The browser will play on TV and but not the TV, then tV will play on my computer speakers but the browser will not. ........AND THEN..... 3 times now while just clicking on menu drop down items, the computer freezes, takes 3 minutes to collect information for microsoft and then reboots........without any solution to the sound problem.

once again.......I swear to not touch it once it works "at all." Flipping computer.

So Yeah..........MIC is very common. But you need a marker for the context. Stop being so self centered.........NOBODY knows what you are thinking until you express it.

Everyone is so special.......I thought adults out grew that???
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Re: The Associated Press

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:38 pm

HEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! only took two days "to remember" that if I mute the volume on my video editor program, the SOB mutes the volume on my Browser. Thats why clicking around on drop down menus in the general volume controls doesn't do anything. I had a very slight memory of that being the issue a year ago..........and it still is.

Any company that cares about their customers......................
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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Tom Palven » Fri May 03, 2019 9:48 am

Here's an article purporting that the AP and the rest of the US corporate mainstream media have solidly supported the Bolton-Abrams neocon interventionist policies in Venezuela:
https://original.antiwar.com/Brett_Wilk ... me-change/

I'd make a further point that the interventionists, and even those opposed to US intervention, such as Patrick Buchanan in a recent article, like to mention that "50 countries recognize Guaido as the legitimate President of Venezuela."
https://buchanan.org/blog/let-venezuela ... iny-136939

What is never mentioned is that there are 195 countries in the world, 193 of which are members of the UN, meaning that there are 143 countries that do not recognize Guaido as President of Venezuela, including Russia and China.
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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sat May 04, 2019 12:03 am

No, there are a lot of countries who just don't give a {!#%@} about Venezuela.
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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Tom Palven » Sun May 26, 2019 1:35 pm

I'm generally a fan of National Public Radio, especially Teri Gross and Ira Flato, but NPR seems to be in lockstep with the Associated Press when it comes to interviewing State Dept. apologists on foreign policy questions.

NPR seemed to make an exception it's general policy when David Greene interviewed Glenn Greenwald regarding the persecution of Chelsea Manning, but no, Greene tried to discredit Greenwald.

Here is the amusing result:


NPR DID NOT run this interviews.
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Re: The Associated Press

Post by OutOfBreath » Tue May 28, 2019 7:39 am

Tom Palven wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:30 am
Here's an example of slant from NPR, effectively behaving like the AP and other MSM:
www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featu ... h-of-evil/
I would say stealing an election and relying on the army to stay in power warrants the label dictator on mr Maduro. No matter what Russia thinks.

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Re: The Associated Press

Post by OutOfBreath » Tue May 28, 2019 7:45 am

Tom Palven wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 9:48 am
What is never mentioned is that there are 195 countries in the world, 193 of which are members of the UN, meaning that there are 143 countries that do not recognize Guaido as President of Venezuela, including Russia and China.
You fail to mention that among the 50 is most of the world's democracies. And the count is 54 in support of guaido, a further 10 in support of the national assembly vs 22 mostly authoritarians for maduro. Basically all of europe and most of latin america. Authoritarians dont give a f about venezuela and neither does africa and most of the world in general.

Total world tally of countries (assuming total of 195):
pro-Guaido 64 (33%)
pro-Maduro 22 (11%)
Explicitly neutral 19 (10%)
Don't care 90 (46%)

In sum: the neighboiring hemisphere and democracies support guaido, and russia/china with friends support maduro on principle since toppling autocrats is a dangerous precedent for them.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Respons ... prov=sfla1

Stop supporting authoritarians just because russia do.

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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Tom Palven » Wed May 29, 2019 12:30 am

OutOfBreath wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 7:39 am
I would say stealing an election and relying on the army to stay in power warrants the label dictator on mr Maduro. No matter what Russia thinks.
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Venezuela is a democracy, or at least a quasi-democracy, and so is Iran, who the neocons have long wanted to Shock and Awe.

Why concentrate on them and fail to mention the great US allies Egypt and Saudi Arabia, two of the world's most brutally repressive dictatorships where dissenters are either in prison or dead?

Why the big concern over Iran and Venezuela and no mention of the other two? Why the double standard?
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Re: The Associated Press

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed May 29, 2019 1:13 am

Tom Palven wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 12:30 am
Why the big concern over Iran and Venezuela and no mention of the other two? Why the double standard?
....ummmmm.........because YOU posted two links regarding Venezuela and nothing about those other subjects.

Does being so inept usually work in your crowd?
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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Tom Palven » Wed May 29, 2019 6:22 am

More from Glenn Greenwald in The Washington Post.

"Assange has few allies left in the United States. The 2010 leaks that exposed war crimes by the Bush administration and the War on Terror generally made him a hero among many leftists, but the enemy of Republicans and hawkish Democrats alike. His remaining support among U.S. liberals subsequently disappeared, and was replaced by seething contempt, when his 2016 leaks revealed corruption at the DNC and harmed Hillary Clinton’s campaign."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/ ... 618f62946e
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Re: The Associated Press

Post by OutOfBreath » Wed May 29, 2019 7:41 am

Tom Palven wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 12:30 am
Venezuela is a democracy, or at least a quasi-democracy, and so is Iran, who the neocons have long wanted to Shock and Awe.

Why concentrate on them and fail to mention the great US allies Egypt and Saudi Arabia, two of the world's most brutally repressive dictatorships where dissenters are either in prison or dead?

Why the big concern over Iran and Venezuela and no mention of the other two? Why the double standard?
Because politics and interests. That's not hard or surprising.

But dont slide into whataboutism here. What Maduro in Venezuela is doing is reprehensible, no matter what Saudi Arabia do or don't do. Iran is a theocratic nightmare no matter what happens in Egypt.

It's not at all difficult to simultaneously:
support the people of Venezuela against the creeping dictatorship and policy failures of their regime
support the people of Iran against the theocratic oppression doled on them by their state
recognize that Saudi Arabia is a cesspit for islamist extremism, and one of the most brutal human rights offenders in the world
recognize that Egypt once again were taken over by a military coup that again is keeping a lid on things

America, Russia and other powers will always selectively recognize some of these, and not mention others as matters of national policy. That's because of alliances, treaties, necessities, interests etc. We, as private citizens, do not have to care about that, and can decry all injustices no matter how politically inconvenient they are for various governments.

Dont get sucked into Russian-friendly whataboutism on these matters. {!#%@} up is {!#%@} up. Period. Things are not less {!#%@} up because america arguably encourages {!#%@}-up stuff elsewhere.

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Re: The Associated Press

Post by OlegTheBatty » Wed May 29, 2019 12:51 pm

OutOfBreath wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 7:45 am
Tom Palven wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 9:48 am
What is never mentioned is that there are 195 countries in the world, 193 of which are members of the UN, meaning that there are 143 countries that do not recognize Guaido as President of Venezuela, including Russia and China.
You fail to mention that among the 50 is most of the world's democracies. And the count is 54 in support of guaido, a further 10 in support of the national assembly vs 22 mostly authoritarians for maduro. Basically all of europe and most of latin america. Authoritarians dont give a f about venezuela and neither does africa and most of the world in general.

Total world tally of countries (assuming total of 195):
pro-Guaido 64 (33%)
pro-Maduro 22 (11%)
Explicitly neutral 19 (10%)
Don't care 90 (46%)

In sum: the neighboiring hemisphere and democracies support guaido, and russia/china with friends support maduro on principle since toppling autocrats is a dangerous precedent for them.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Respons ... prov=sfla1

Stop supporting authoritarians just because russia do.

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This has little to do with democracy. The split is along the lines of state control of resources vs. corporate control of resources. Neither Maduro nor Guaido can claim the support of a majority of Venezuelans. What each can claim is the support of a bunch of foreigners who are willing to stick their noses into someone else's business in the hopes of their businesses getting in on the spoils. It is more akin to hyenas tearing a carcass.
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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Tom Palven » Wed May 29, 2019 1:14 pm

OutOfBreath wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 7:41 am
Tom Palven wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 12:30 am
Venezuela is a democracy, or at least a quasi-democracy, and so is Iran, who the neocons have long wanted to Shock and Awe.

Why concentrate on them and fail to mention the great US allies Egypt and Saudi Arabia, two of the world's most brutally repressive dictatorships where dissenters are either in prison or dead?

Why the big concern over Iran and Venezuela and no mention of the other two? Why the double standard?
But dont slide into whataboutism here. What Maduro in Venezuela is doing is reprehensible, no matter what Saudi Arabia do or don't do. Iran is a theocratic nightmare no matter what happens in Egypt.

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So, do you recommend that the US should do something about the situations in Iran and Venezuela with military intervention and/or economic sanctions, or should any actions be left to the people who live there?

And, do you think it would be proper for the US to stop military aid to the brutal military government of General al-Sisi? (who is "keeping a lid on things" in Egypt, especially freedom of speech and of the press ).
Last edited by Tom Palven on Wed May 29, 2019 1:19 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: The Associated Press

Post by OutOfBreath » Wed May 29, 2019 1:14 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 12:51 pm
This has little to do with democracy. The split is along the lines of state control of resources vs. corporate control of resources. Neither Maduro nor Guaido can claim the support of a majority of Venezuelans. What each can claim is the support of a bunch of foreigners who are willing to stick their noses into someone else's business in the hopes of their businesses getting in on the spoils. It is more akin to hyenas tearing a carcass.
Indeed. I was just responding to Tom's misleading "score card". Most countries respond according to their interests and big-power ties, true. That doesnt mean that truth is relative and that there arent actual concerns for the population in question.

As for popular support, various polls in Venezuela indicate that a big majority of those polled want Maduro gone, and a smaller majority are favourable to mr Guaido, at least for the time being. Of course, Venezuela seems trapped between kleptocrat left populism and a former kleptocrat right populist bunch. But with change there is at least some small hope, something not found in increasingly dictatorial and military-reliant rule by Maduro. 2 million refugees and malnourishment of the population is not a ringing endorsement for mr Maduro.

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Re: The Associated Press

Post by OutOfBreath » Wed May 29, 2019 1:23 pm

Tom Palven wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 1:14 pm
So, do you recommend that the US with it's military and it's sanctions, should do something about the situations in Iran and Venezuela, or should any actions be left to the people who live there?
Not necessarily, no. That always depends on a lot of circumstances and political realities.

I would agree to pressuring the Venezuelan government into either resigning or doing a deal with the assembly. I would not support an invasion at this point. Iran is more a mixed bag. I do not support war there, as I think it would be mostly counter-productive. I would support any and all civilian groups and factions that oppose the regime though, and apply as much political pressure as is appropriate to nudge them towards respecting human rights. El Trumpo's tearing up of the nuclear deal was a huge mistake in my view, since it was actually working as planned.
And, do you think it would be proper for the US to stop military aid to the brutal military government of General al-Sisi? (who is "keeping a lid on things," especially freedom of speech and of the press ).
Sure, but that opens a while can of "it's complicated" whoop-ass, I dont think the US or Israel wants. The aid to Egypt is the on-going peace deal between Egypt and Israel after all. But ideally, yes.

Point is, it's rather easy to draw up how things should ideally be, but that may differ from what should actually be done given all the tie-ins, political situation and so on ad nauseum. Military force can be justifiable in the right circumstances. I dont see Venezuela or Iran as that for now.

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Re: The Associated Press

Post by OlegTheBatty » Wed May 29, 2019 1:44 pm

OutOfBreath wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 1:14 pm
OlegTheBatty wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 12:51 pm
This has little to do with democracy. The split is along the lines of state control of resources vs. corporate control of resources. Neither Maduro nor Guaido can claim the support of a majority of Venezuelans. What each can claim is the support of a bunch of foreigners who are willing to stick their noses into someone else's business in the hopes of their businesses getting in on the spoils. It is more akin to hyenas tearing a carcass.
Indeed. I was just responding to Tom's misleading "score card". Most countries respond according to their interests and big-power ties, true. That doesnt mean that truth is relative and that there arent actual concerns for the population in question.

As for popular support, various polls in Venezuela indicate that a big majority of those polled want Maduro gone, and a smaller majority are favourable to mr Guaido, at least for the time being. Of course, Venezuela seems trapped between kleptocrat left populism and a former kleptocrat right populist bunch. But with change there is at least some small hope, something not found in increasingly dictatorial and military-reliant rule by Maduro. 2 million refugees and malnourishment of the population is not a ringing endorsement for mr Maduro.

Peace
Dan
I don't see any near future hope for the Venezuelan people. Their choice is between a left wing dictator and a right wing dictator wannabe. I doubt if either one sees the Venezuelans as anything other than a cash cow to be milked.

I wonder what the polls would indicate if the people were asked if they would like to get rid of the whole shebang.
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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Tom Palven » Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:06 am

Tom Palven wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 1:35 pm
I'm generally a fan of National Public Radio, especially Teri Gross and Ira Flato, but NPR seems to be in lockstep with the Associated Press when it comes to interviewing State Dept. apologists on foreign policy questions.

NPR seemed to make an exception it's general policy when David Greene interviewed Glenn Greenwald regarding the persecution of Chelsea Manning, but no, Greene tried to discredit Greenwald.

Here is the amusing result:


NPR DID NOT run this interviews.
I've reviewed a couple of books by William Blum here, and am now reading Rogue State: A Guide to the World's Only Superpower.

Rogue State was first published in 2000, but I'm reading the revised and updated 2005 edition because it is inexpensive, used, at Amazon. There is also a revised and updated 2014 edition which, again, is more expensive.

Anyway, it was gratifying to read Blum's comments about NPR in the introduction, which explain my own observations:

"The president of National Public Radio (NPR), Kevin Klose, is the former head of all the major, worldwide US government broadcast propaganda outlets, including Voice of America, Radio Free Europe, Radio Liberty, and the anti-Castro Radio Marti, which broadcasts into Cuba from Florida. NPR, it can be said, has never met an American war it didn't like. It was inspired to describe the war against Yugoslavia as Clinton's 'most significant foreign policy success.'

And Robert Conrad---from 1997-2004 the head of the congressionally-created Corporation for Public Broadcasting, which funds over 1,000 public television and radio stations nationwide-- has a resume remarkably similar to that of Mr. Klose, from voice of America to Radio Marti.

Is it any wonder that during America's wars NPR has one military officer after another on the air offering commentary, but virtually never anyone unambiguously opposed to the war?"

Mr. Blum died last December at the age of 85.
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