Neocon Watch

Talk, debate, discussion, observations, etc... regarding episodes of MonsterTalk.
Tom Palven
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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:37 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:09 am
What about not war at all but economic penalties for percieved national interests??...........or in your mind is that the same as war?

................and what "should" the USA do regarding Cuban/Russian/Chinese activities in South America?.........Let them have their way or is anything else......."war?"
What Jefferson said back in the day still stands as the best policy:

"Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations — entangling alliances with none." --THOMAS JEFFERSON

McDonalds, Kentucky Fried Chicken, oil companies, and other businesses should invest all they want to anywhere they want to, and Bolton, Pompeo, Elliot Abrams, and the rest of the evil deep state control freaks should stay the fvck out of it.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by landrew » Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:41 pm

Tom Palven wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:37 pm
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:09 am
What about not war at all but economic penalties for percieved national interests??...........or in your mind is that the same as war?

................and what "should" the USA do regarding Cuban/Russian/Chinese activities in South America?.........Let them have their way or is anything else......."war?"
What Jefferson said back in the day still stands as the best policy:

"Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations — entangling alliances with none." --THOMAS JEFFERSON

McDonalds, Kentucky Fried Chicken, oil companies, and other businesses should invest all they want to anywhere they want to, and Bolton, Pompeo, Elliot Abrams, and the rest of the evil deep state control freaks should stay the fvck out of it.
And they did. Plenty of American companies helped nazi germany rise to power.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:54 pm

landrew wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:41 pm
Tom Palven wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:37 pm
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:09 am
What about not war at all but economic penalties for percieved national interests??...........or in your mind is that the same as war?

................and what "should" the USA do regarding Cuban/Russian/Chinese activities in South America?.........Let them have their way or is anything else......."war?"
What Jefferson said back in the day still stands as the best policy:

"Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations — entangling alliances with none." --THOMAS JEFFERSON

McDonalds, Kentucky Fried Chicken, oil companies, and other businesses should invest all they want to anywhere they want to, and Bolton, Pompeo, Elliot Abrams, and the rest of the evil deep state control freaks should stay the fvck out of it.
And they did. Plenty of American companies helped nazi germany rise to power.
Which private US companies supported or campaigned for Hitler?

Bolton, Abrams, et al would have fit right in with Goebbels and the rest of the Nazi deep state, not that is that especially relevant, either.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by landrew » Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:59 pm

Tom Palven wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:54 pm
landrew wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:41 pm
Tom Palven wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:37 pm
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:09 am
What about not war at all but economic penalties for percieved national interests??...........or in your mind is that the same as war?

................and what "should" the USA do regarding Cuban/Russian/Chinese activities in South America?.........Let them have their way or is anything else......."war?"
What Jefferson said back in the day still stands as the best policy:

"Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations — entangling alliances with none." --THOMAS JEFFERSON

McDonalds, Kentucky Fried Chicken, oil companies, and other businesses should invest all they want to anywhere they want to, and Bolton, Pompeo, Elliot Abrams, and the rest of the evil deep state control freaks should stay the fvck out of it.
And they did. Plenty of American companies helped nazi germany rise to power.
Which private US companies supported or campaigned for Hitler?

Bolton, Abrams, et al would have fit right in with Goebbels and the rest of the Nazi deep state, not that is that especially relevant, either.
No charge this time, but I can't do all your research for you:
https://www.toptenz.net/top-10-american ... -nazis.php
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Jun 05, 2019 3:55 pm

TP: got anything relevant or is it catch phrases all the way down?
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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:56 pm

Japanese shipowner contradicts Trump and his neocon warmonger henchmen:
https://news.antiwar.com/2019/06/14/jap ... er-attack/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:57 am

Will Netanyahu and the neocon warmongers finally get their Shock and Awe on Iran?

Article by Eric Margolis:
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2019/06/eri ... -the-gulf/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:13 am

If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:14 am

Iran is not without issues and problems, and actions, but those guys currently involved are really not the ones who should be dealing with that.
.
Lard, save me from your followers.

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:26 pm

.
Lard, save me from your followers.

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:42 am

Something to bear in mind for those interested in watching neocons:
https://news.antiwar.com/2019/07/02/bol ... -election/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:18 am

You Are Being Trolled says Dmitry Orlov

"...US aircraft battle groups are steaming toward North Korea.

Now it's about Venezuela...

Now i's about Iran...
https://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2019/06/ ... .html#more
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:14 am

With farcical "reasoning," the neocons are frog-marching the US to Shock and Awe on Iran (This kind of one-sided slaughter cannot properly be called "war.")
https://original.antiwar.com/paul/2019/ ... r-on-iran/

"Secretary Pompeo Tweeted yesterday the exact kind of dishonest hysterics used to terrify many Americans into supporting an Iraq attack 13 years ago:

''Iran’s regime, armed with nuclear weapons, would pose an even greater danger to the world.' ”
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:31 am

CIA-orchestrated coups haven't been going well of late. Central Command failed to overthrow President Erdogan, the democratically-elected leader of Turkey a few years ago, and Southern Command is still having trouble trying to overthrow President Maduro in Venezuela.

If you have to blame someone for these failures, why not blame Iran?
https://news.antiwar.com/2019/07/11/soc ... me-change/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:33 am

Trump ruined the Iran nuclear deal to spite Obama, according to Russia Today, which I find a lot more credible than The Associated Press.
https://www.rt.com/news/464119-trump-ir ... r-deal-uk/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by landrew » Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:55 pm

Tom Palven wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:33 am
Trump ruined the Iran nuclear deal to spite Obama, according to Russia Today, which I find a lot more credible than The Associated Press.
https://www.rt.com/news/464119-trump-ir ... r-deal-uk/
Everything he's ever done shows us he only cares about taking down his opponents. That's why he has no friends, only business associates and former victims.
The man is an open book.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:28 am

More nails in the neocon deep state coffin?
https://www.globalresearch.ca/shifting- ... nt/5683458

Is it possible that trying to overthrow the democratically-elected Erdogan regime was a mistake?

Is it possible hat trying to overthrow the democratically-elected government of Maduro is a mistake?

Is it possible that the heyday of the CIA and MI6 (the last vestige of the British Empire) deep state alliance, is over?

Yes, it's possible, and it's possible and this corresponds to what's going on with US economic bankruptcy, its deep state sanctions on everyone, and panic by Bolton, Pompeo, Elliot Abrams, and other neocons.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by ElectricMonk » Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:28 am

Erdogan is a theocratic, authoritarian scumbag. And he is being blackmailed by Putin.
Calling him democratically elected is a looong stretch, given the number of opposition politicians and journalists he had arrested before his last election.

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:15 pm

ElectricMonk wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:28 am
Erdogan is a theocratic, authoritarian scumbag. And he is being blackmailed by Putin.
Calling him democratically elected is a looong stretch, given the number of opposition politicians and journalists he had arrested before his last election.
Would you allow that Erdogan was more democratically-elected than US allies King Salman of Saudi Arabia and General al-Sisi of Egypt?

Are they not scumbags of the First Order?
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:19 pm

EM== Now +3, one run after another. Opposition seems to be playing a different game entirely.
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Lance Kennedy » Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:18 pm

Tom

That is a nice list of psychopaths.

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:53 am

The Trump Regime, Congress, the MIC, and the rest of the US deep state seem to be in a bit of a quandary, and, of course, it's Obama's fault. (Fwiw, I think this is the first time I've ever written the word "quandary"):
https://news.antiwar.com/2019/07/16/tru ... -35-sales/

It's a conundrum. :mrgreen:
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:27 am

Tom Palven wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:53 am
The Trump Regime, Congress, the MIC, and the rest of the US deep state seem to be in a bit of a quandary, and, of course, it's Obama's fault. (Fwiw, I think this is the first time I've ever written the word "quandary"):
https://news.antiwar.com/2019/07/16/tru ... -35-sales/

It's a conundrum. :mrgreen:
More of the same, from Aljazeera, slightly updated:
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/07/ ... 23465.html
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:23 am

I dont' see any quandary. Nor conundrum. Their purpose and choices are pretty clear. They want personal power and prestige before anything else.

What else is new?
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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:38 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:23 am
What else is new?
Are Libertarians the New Neocons?
Is Daniel McAdams fixin' to drop the libertarian label?
http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archive ... w-neocons/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by ElectricMonk » Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:07 am

If you have Libertarian in the title, why would you need to have it in the substance?

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:33 pm

Are the Hong Kong protests funded by the US deep state? Seems about par for the course. YMMV.
http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archive ... difficult/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by ElectricMonk » Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:42 pm

Tom, I'm sure your sources have also told you that the Moscow protests to be allow to have an opposition nominees are funded by the US Deep State.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-49125045

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:44 pm

ElectricMonk wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:42 pm
Tom, I'm sure your sources have also told you that the Moscow protests to be allow to have an opposition nominees are funded by the US Deep State.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-49125045
I'm going to have to parse that sentence a bit.

Not quite sure what you are saying, or what your sources told you about my sources.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by ElectricMonk » Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:58 pm

I'm saying that just because they are pro-democracy protests against an anti-US regime doesn't mean that they are funded by The Great US Satanists.

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:42 pm

ElectricMonk wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:58 pm
I'm saying that just because they are pro-democracy protests against an anti-US regime doesn't mean that they are funded by The Great US Satanists.
Yeah.

I mean, with about 196 countries in the world, what are the odds of that happening!
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by landrew » Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:53 pm

Such a partisan viewpoint.

In the real old west, the good guys didn't only wear white hats and the bad guys didn't only wear black hats. Most of them wore derbys or whatever else they could find.
Everybody was just making their own way, in their own way.
Just like now.
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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tommy Palven » Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:41 am

If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tommy Palven » Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:50 am

Joke of the Day:

A jokesperson at the State Department called Chinese actions "irresponsible."
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hong ... SKCN1UZ2HK

Maybe this should have been posted in The Funny Pages.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by landrew » Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:11 pm

Every once in awhile China forces its totalitarian agenda and rushes headlong against popular opinion.
They've been losing ground on that front since Mao died.
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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tommy Palven » Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:05 pm

landrew wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:11 pm
Every once in awhile China forces its totalitarian agenda and rushes headlong against popular opinion.
They've been losing ground on that front since Mao died.
Pardon me while dredge this up again. If you've seen it before, please ignore:



ONCE UPON A DECADE: 1968-1978

In I968 Richard Nixon was elected President and sworn in on Quaker family Bible turned to a page containing "beating swords into plowshares."

1972 Nixon visited Moscow and negotiated an Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty with Russia, and was the first sitting President to visit China, establishing relations there.

Nixon then took the US off what remained of the gold/silver standard with silver coins being changed to silver-colored copper coins, and said "We are all Keynesians now," opening the door to unlimited spending, "quantitative easing," and a $20 trillion debt.

During the same period the Nixon administration declared a "war on drugs" and initiated the No-Knock Laws, co-sponsored in the Senate by Democrat Ted Kennedy, which gradually led to the militarization of US police.

In 1973 Nixon ended conscription and withdrew US troops from Vietnam. (A good thing.)

1976 Jimmy Carter was elected President, and on his second day in office pardoned Vietnam War draft-dodgers.

1978 The Carter administration expanded the US bureaucracy with the creation of the Departments of Energy and Education.

Meanwhile in 1978 the Chinese Communist Party picked free market advocate Deng Xiaoping to lead them out of their economic nightmare.
It worked, and for the last four decades central command economists like Paul Krugman and Robert Reich have been chanting a mantra that the Chinese economy is overheated and about to crash, while the Chinese government loans the US money.

Currently the Chinese government is trying to encourage the development of it's service industries which the US dominates.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/sarahsu/201 ... cf1ad1e367

It seems that Krugman, Reich, and other US mainstream economists are going to have to wait a little longer to achieve their first-ever accurate prediction:
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by landrew » Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:18 pm

"Winter has turned to spring, so it's unlikely you can go skiing next week."

"Yes, but it snowed last month."
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

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Austin Harper
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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Austin Harper » Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:23 am

What's up with the Tommy alias?
Dum ratio nos ducet, valebimus et multa bene geremus.

Tommy Palven
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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tommy Palven » Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:57 am

Austin Harper wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:23 am
What's up with the Tommy alias?
I had computer problems and password problems.

When I ended up starting a new account I went with the name friends call me.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Austin Harper
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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Austin Harper » Sun Aug 11, 2019 3:03 pm

Sorry to hear that, computer hassles are such a headache. If you wanted, I bet Pyrrho could merge these two accounts for you.
Dum ratio nos ducet, valebimus et multa bene geremus.