Neocon Watch

Talk, debate, discussion, observations, etc... regarding episodes of MonsterTalk.
Tom Palven
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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:27 am

Has US economic and political intervention in Venezuela backfired on Elliot Abrams and John Bolton?

Indian Punchline describes the entry of Chinese troops into Venezuela as a "watershed moment in world politics," but so far the US MSM seems to have ignored this development.
https://indianpunchline.com/chinas-pla- ... e-changer/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:49 am

FTL: "“Over the decade ending in 2016, China loaned Venezuela approximately $62 billion, much of which Caracas could repay with oil. Moscow in the last several years gave Venezuela $17 billion in loans and investment, and in December the two governments signed a new deal in which Russia will invest $6 billion in Venezuela’s oil and gold sectors.” //// Seems to me its China's investment in Venezuela that may have "backfired" whatever that fatally vague term is supposed to mean? I take it as: "something negative."

Seems to me: USA should nego with China to assure them they get their $$$ back "if" they allow a transition to the new guy. To bad USA doesn't have negotiators up to snuff.
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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:24 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:49 am
Seems to me: USA should nego with China to assure them they get their $$$ back "if" they allow a transition to the new guy. To bad USA doesn't have negotiators up to snuff.
I'd prefer that Bolton, Abrams, and the rest of the US deep state remove the oil and banking sanctions from Venezuela that are aimed at causing pain and political unrest, and concentrate on tending their own garden, but it ain't never gonna happen.

Just sayin'.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:56 pm

Venezuela "is" our garden. What makes you think it isn't? Dare to be great...........or get crushed by those who are.
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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by landrew » Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:24 pm

The world has communities of good neighbors and bad neighbors. Putin was kicked out of the G8 because he was not a good neighbor. There's always a jerk in every neighborhood who puts himself first above all the others and makes life difficult for everyone else. They have a paranoid view of the world and associate with similar unsavory characters. They rarely prosper, especially when the greater community refuses to deal with them.
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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:36 pm

Good and Bad has little to do with Realpolitik. It has more to do with interests and abilities.
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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Sat Apr 06, 2019 12:22 pm

Neocons increase economic intervention to help the oppressed people of Venezuela:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-vene ... SKCN1RH1B5
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:31 pm

Thanks for the context. Not that hard to do?

Sadly, we have too many examples that "economic pressure" on a Dictator rarely provides regime change: not when the country is already in active revolt. Revolt having many degrees and type....Venezuela not in armed revolution but people are in the streets in massive protests. Enough to cause regime change in any leader not a Fascist.
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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:10 pm

If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:42 pm

let me do your work for you: "Deep state neocons persevere as VP Pense urges actions against Cuba for its support of Venezuela. This raises tension and possible military action to highest level since the Cuban Missle Crises."

Not so hard is it?

To me, it raises the question of how many idiots can be in charge of foreign policy before you don't trust anything they say?...........How far past that number are we now??????
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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:47 am

Pence doubles down on Venezuelan coup d'état:
https://news.antiwar.com/2019/04/10/pen ... the-table/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:57 am

In a victory for neocons and the MIC, Trump vetoed Congressional efforts to end US aid to Saudi Arabia in it's Yemen war:
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/04/ ... 15258.html
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:47 am

The deep state neocons have out-maneuvered Trump and regained total control of foreign policy despite Trump's early efforts to achieve détente with Russia and North Korea, and to withdraw troops from Afghanistan and Syria.
https://www.fff.org/2019/04/22/russias- ... riendship/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by ElectricMonk » Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:48 am

Poor Russia.
Only gets to continue laundering money and using it to buy factories in the US.