Neocon Watch

Talk, debate, discussion, observations, etc... regarding episodes of MonsterTalk.
Tom Palven
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Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:09 am

Ron Paul's Neocon Watch keep an eye on what John Bolton and other real-life monsters are doing:
http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archive ... watch.aspx
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:21 am

Ron Paul is against public education,
Ron Paul is against public health insurance,
Ron Paul is against gun control

Is Ron Paul keeping an eye out for a resurgence of US neo conservatives because he hates "lefties"
:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by landrew » Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:27 pm

When politicians reach a certain age, they either retire, or stop caring about all the strings attached to them by all the various special interests, and sometimes (rarely) start speaking their minds. Ron Paul has gained a lot of fans for speaking out on things that other politicians either keep quiet or obfuscate about. But of course he will never be warmed to by the tribal warriors who only see the world in terms of traitors and patriots, for every issue, depending on which side of the fence they perceive it to be.
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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Gord » Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:11 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:21 am
Ron Paul is against public education,
Ron Paul is against public health insurance,
Ron Paul is against gun control

Is Ron Paul keeping an eye out for a resurgence of US neo conservatives because he hates "lefties"
:lol: :lol: :lol:
I'm with them: John Bolton is a monster (of sorts).
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
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Is Trump in jail yet?

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:49 am

landrew wrote: Ron Paul has gained a lot of fans for speaking out on things that other politicians either keep quiet or obfuscate about.
Tom Palven stood for election in Ron Paul's US Libertarian party. The party withered and has no members in congress or as any governors. That's because it has ridiculous policies such as no gun control, no public health, no social security and no public education. The US Libertarian Party threw Ron Paul out last year.

The Libertarian Party with the most politicians in office is the Russian Libertarian Party. It runs the international Libertarian Party in Switzerland. That's where the isolationist propaganda for the USA Libertarian Party comes from.

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:04 am

Convicted deep state neocon liar Elliot Abrams returns to haunt Venezuelans this time:
https://theintercept.com/2019/01/30/ell ... uela-coup/

US attempts to enlist Venezuelan generals:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-vene ... SKCN1PX22L

It's "not up to "neoconservative Defense Dept. officials" to authorize intervention in Venezuela says US Congressman Ro Khanna:
https://www.rt.com/news/451118-us-inter ... -reaction/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:34 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:49 am
Tom Palven stood for election in Ron Paul's US Libertarian party.
IIRC, thats the nastiest thing you have ever posted. Ha, ha. A "real" politician.........libertarian still counts.

TP: can you confirm?? And that Libertarians should or should not run anything other than a high school discussion forum?
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:16 pm

Tom Palven wrote:Convicted deep state neocon liar Elliot Abrams returns to haunt Venezuelans this time:
There is no such thing as the "Deep State consiracy" Tom Palven. It is Fox News right wing propaganda that you keep spamming onto our forum as you are extreme right wing. .
hannity deep state 6.jpg
Do you Tom Palven support Maduro's refusal to let food aid into Venezuela, to feed starving Venezuelan citizens? Do you prefer the citizens to starve to death instead as you are a right wing isolationist?

Maduro blocks bridge ahead of aid delivery
Blocking aid.jpg
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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:20 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:34 pm
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:49 am
Tom Palven stood for election in Ron Paul's US Libertarian party.


TP: can you confirm??
Yes. In 1971 my father showed me an article in the NY Times about the newly formed US Libertarian Party and said "They sound like you."

They called for combining the best parts of the major parties- the civil liberties positions of the Democrats including women's rights to their own bodies, gay rights, an end to Jim Crow laws, and an end of the draft and the Vietnam War; with the free market views that the Republicans paid lip service to, creating a platform which espoused the Classical Liberal positions of Adam Smith, Voltaire, and others.

In 1972 NJLP Chairman Bob Steiner and I were the first two NJLP members to run for Congress from NJ. We thought that lots of people would see the wisdom of merging the best positions of both major parties.

We were wrong. The majority of New Jerseyans and other Americans seemed to be populists, holding views exactly the opposite of libertarians.

In the Spring of 2003 my wife Peggy Donohue, our dog Zeke, and I marched in Washington to prevent the invasion of Iraq, and I dropped out of the LP when the LP News failed to condemn the Shock and Awe and invasion of Iraq.

I was long gone from the party before it was co-opted by Tea Party opportunists who nominated conservative Congressman Bob Barr for President in 2008.

The political opportunists have moved on to greener pastures with Trump, and those remaining in the LP recently nominated the fairly solid libertarian Gary Johnson for President, but I have no plans to support any kind of politics in the future.

The bottom line is that I think libertarians may have done a little good as strong voices for civil liberties which may have helped a bit to win the rights to gay marriage and gays in the military.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:37 am

Tom Palven wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:20 am
The bottom line is that I think libertarians may have done a little good as strong voices for civil liberties which may have helped a bit to win the rights to gay marriage and gays in the military.
Good on you. I respect your exposure to the hostilities life has to offer.... and I agree L has lots of KEY touchstones and values we should all keep in mind more often than we do. something to feel warm about in our dotage............
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:51 am

Tom Palven wrote: They called for combining the best parts of the major parties-
No social welfare,
No public health insurance,
No gun control,
Isolationism for the USA.

Gosh I can see why the Russians love pushing Libertarian propaganda back into the current USA.
:lol:

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:56 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:51 am
Tom Palven wrote: They called for combining the best parts of the major parties-
No social welfare,
No public health insurance,
No gun control,
Isolationism for the USA.

Gosh I can see why the Russians love pushing Libertarian propaganda back into the current USA.
:lol:
Yeah....I've seen all that in the current version of Libertardianism. I disagree wholly with the first three but give a nod to the last one. The distinction between isolationism vs adverturism. Whole lot of inbetween ground there.

TP: if you care to, thumbnail any of the justifications for the first three? No four.....just too complicated for a thumbnail. No 3 if anything other than gun ownership is misconstrued int he Bill of Rights.
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:54 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:56 am
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:51 am
Tom Palven wrote: They called for combining the best parts of the major parties-
No social welfare,
No public health insurance,
No gun control,
Isolationism for the USA.

Gosh I can see why the Russians love pushing Libertarian propaganda back into the current USA.
:lol:
Yeah....I've seen all that in the current version of Libertardianism. I disagree wholly with the first three but give a nod to the last one. The distinction between isolationism vs adverturism. Whole lot of inbetween ground there.

TP: if you care to, thumbnail any of the justifications for the first three? No four.....just too complicated for a thumbnail. No 3 if anything other than gun ownership is misconstrued int he Bill of Rights.
As I've mentioned before, bobbo, I haven't been a member of the LP or called myself a libertarian in years wouldn't know what LP members stand for these days if I hadn't just looked up their political platform:
https://www.lp.org/platform/

An example of my disagreements with them is in their Free Trade and Migration heading where they say that "individuals should not be unreasonably constrained by governments in the crossing of national borders."

"Unreasonably constrained" are weasel words.

Imvho restrictions on free travel and free trade are logically unethical/immoral, which is why I now call myself a Classical Liberal, identifying with the views of Adam Smith and Voltaire.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism
Last edited by Tom Palven on Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:57 am, edited 2 times in total.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:56 am

TP: do you call those the best parts of the majority parties?
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:59 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:56 am
TP: do you call those the best parts of the majority parties?
I don't understand your question.

Do I call what the best parts of the major parties?

Do you thank that I should have a right to sell my house to a Mexican, a Canadian, or anyone else in the world, no questions asked, and if not, why not?
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:12 am

Tom Palven wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:59 am
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:56 am
TP: do you call those the best parts of the majority parties?
I don't understand your question.

Do I call what the best parts of the major parties?
No social welfare,
No public health insurance,
No gun control,
Isolationism for the USA.

Tom Palven wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:59 am
Do you thank that I should have a right to sell my house to a Mexican, a Canadian, or anyone else in the world, no questions asked, and if not, why not?
Yes. Usually that kind of question is asked in the negative. Got the right list?
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:14 am

Tom Palven wrote:Do you thank that I should have a right to sell my house to a Mexican, a Canadian, or anyone else in the world, no questions asked, and if not, why not?
How about your Taliban friends or their friend Osama Bin Laden?

You would sell them your house knowing they would start shooting more Americans if they got into the USA after they bought your house? Is that your plan to bring down the "evil empire" as you call the USA?
:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:51 am

President starts a war?

Congress yawns.

Threatens to end one?

Condemnation! says Ron Paul.

https://original.antiwar.com/paul/2019/ ... demnation/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:59 am

"Elliot Abrams is a monster," first sentence paragraph two, by Caitlan Johnstone:
http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archive ... everybody/

Bolton, Abrams, and "Ellard," an Axis of Intelligence and Good Will?
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:19 am

Tom Palven wrote: Bolton, Abrams, and "Ellard," an Axis of Intelligence and Good Will?
Bolton is a complete idiot and the rest of the world pays no attention to him.

However, It is odd that I scare you as much as he does. Is that because I have quoted you and your love for Taliban, as fellow extreme conservatives?
:lol: :lol:

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:58 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:19 am
Tom Palven wrote: Bolton, Abrams, and "Ellard," an Axis of Intelligence and Good Will?
Bolton is a complete idiot and the rest of the world pays no attention to him.
You call Bolton an idiot, yet you defend everything that he says and does regarding Venezuela, Poland, etc.

And you consistently defend lying neocons James Clapper, Elliot Abrams, and John Brennan while consistently excoriating truth-publishing whistleblowers like Edward Snowden, Julian Assange, Glenn Greenwald, and Eric Margolis.

I don't know if you work for The Company, Mossad, ASIS, or are truly independent, but some things come to mind:

1. A lot of things you've said indicate that you really are Australian, as does the fact that you post only during Australian business hours.

2. You not only post profusely and with elaborate cartoons here, but have indicated that you monitor, investigate, and troll other websites, apparently including holocaust-denier websites.

The bottom line is that while I don't know who you are or who you work for, every single US foreign policy position that you support and defend is a neoconservative position, so it's really laughable for you to state that you are not a neoconservative despite, if we take you at your word, your belonging to an Australian socialist party. :lol: :mrgreen: :lol: :mrgreen: :lol:
https://news.antiwar.com/2019/02/15/us- ... ctivities/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:26 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:Bolton is a complete idiot and the rest of the world pays no attention to him.
Tom Palven wrote: You call Bolton an idiot, yet you defend everything that he says
No Tom Palven. I have clearly posted many times that Iran should be left alone and explained how the EC is protecting Iran as you didn't know. :lol:

As you are senile and only read right wing cartoon books....you simply forgot again.

Tom Palven wrote:I don't know if you work for The Company, Mossad, ASIS, or a...........
Australians can't work for the CIA, NSA, FBI, Mossad, Shin Bet. You only started claiming I was three intelligence officers who worked for Israel when I informed you I fought against holocaust deniers. Your anti-Semitic beliefs are quite obvious.

Try posting on Stormfront white action power forum.
:lol:

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Sun Feb 17, 2019 8:34 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:26 am
Matthew Ellard wrote:Bolton is a complete idiot and the rest of the world pays no attention to him.
Tom Palven wrote: You call Bolton an idiot, yet you defend everything that he says
No Tom Palven. I have clearly posted many times that Iran should be left alone and explained how the EC is protecting Iran as you didn't know.
Tom Palven wrote:I don't know if you work for The Company, Mossad, ASIS, or a...........
Australians can't work for the CIA, NSA, FBI, Mossad, Shin Bet.


1. The position you claim to have regarding Iran, to leave Iran alone, is a puzzler.

It doesn't square with any other position you take, which is to agree with everything that Bolton and Netanyahu say and do, and I admit I don't understand that one inconsistency.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/w ... -netanyahu

2. You rule out monitoring and trolling for anyone but ASIS or a subsidiary thereof.

Fair enough. I won't argue against that.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:20 am

Tom Palven wrote: 1. The position you claim to have regarding Iran, to leave Iran alone, is a puzzler.

No. It is common sense. Iran has not restarted any nuclear missile development program. Trump is picking on Iran because his conservative base still remember the late 1970's hostage crisis.
Tom Palven wrote: 2. You rule out monitoring and trolling for anyone but ASIS or a subsidiary thereof.
No as I am not a "secret agent" following you around for your vast knowledge of forest management. That is just another of your insane extreme right-wing delusions. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by Tom Palven » Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:35 am

Neoconservatism "a sociopathic death cult"- Caitlin Johnstone:
https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2019/02/16 ... excellent/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: Neocon Watch

Post by ElectricMonk » Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:35 am

Putin is the archetypal Neocon.

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Neocon Watch" / Trump propaganda

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:24 am

Tom Palven wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:35 am
Neoconservatism "a sociopathic death cult"- Caitlin Johnstone:
https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2019/02/16 ... excellent/
This is a pro Tucker Calson, propaganda piece, who is a right wing extremist and Trump supporter on Fox News.

It is standard pro-Trump rubbish pretending to be anti war while simply promoting extreme conservatism. .
:lol: :lol: