Maria Butina's Crime

Who else knows what we know, Jerry?
Tom Palven
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5922
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:29 am

Maria Butina's Crime

Post by Tom Palven » Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:07 am

Jacob Hornberger uses the term "US National Establishment."
It takes up more space than "deep state," but that's okay.
https://www.fff.org/2018/12/14/butina-p ... ed-states/

Yes, Virginia, there is a deep state.
https://consortiumnews.com/2018/12/13/y ... xposed-it/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

User avatar
ElectricMonk
Perpetual Poster
Posts: 4618
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:21 pm
Custom Title: The Baby-eating Bishop

Re: Maria Butina's Crime

Post by ElectricMonk » Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:41 am

Sorry Tom, but this is just such a pile of nonsense.
If Butina really just wanted to "befriend" the US, why didn't she register? Why did she claim to represent a totally fake Russia-version of the NRA?
Why does she have a GRU handler, and not one from the Russian State Department?

And yes, it is a crime to work as a foreign agent without notifying the US government; everyone who dealt with her knew, and should have checked with the State Department to make sure they were not being illegally manipulated by a foreign government.
It is true that she shouldn't be the only one behind bars - a number of members of the GOP and NRA should join her.
But why don't we just wait to hear what she has so say? Given that her handler died in Russia under suspicious circumstances, it is understandable that she would rather cooperate with US law enforcement that seek extradition.

Tom Palven
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5922
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:29 am

Re: Maria Butina's Crime

Post by Tom Palven » Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:50 am

ElectricMonk wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:41 am
Sorry Tom, but this is just such a pile of nonsense.
If Butina really just wanted to "befriend" the US, why didn't she register? Why did she claim to represent a totally fake Russia-version of the NRA?
Why does she have a GRU handler, and not one from the Russian State Department?

And yes, it is a crime to work as a foreign agent without notifying the US government; everyone who dealt with her knew, and should have checked with the State Department to make sure they were not being illegally manipulated by a foreign government.
It is true that she shouldn't be the only one behind bars - a number of members of the GOP and NRA should join her.
But why don't we just wait to hear what she has so say? Given that her handler died in Russia under suspicious circumstances, it is understandable that she would rather cooperate with US law enforcement that seek extradition.

How does her position, effectively as a lobbyist for Russia (and Russian arms manufacturers?), differ from the positions of foreign ambassadors of all nations, most of whom seem to have some kind of connection to their nations' secret police?

It's not like she hid the fact that she is a Russian.

This seems like as much a bunch of crap as he arrest of Chinese national Meng Hongwei in Canada.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

User avatar
ElectricMonk
Perpetual Poster
Posts: 4618
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:21 pm
Custom Title: The Baby-eating Bishop

Re: Maria Butina's Crime

Post by ElectricMonk » Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:54 am

Simple - one is declared, the other isn't.

And there is absolutely nothing similar to her case and that of the Chinese CFO: she is detained because the US wants to isolate Iran. Trump has suggested that she could be a bargaining chip in his trade war with China.

User avatar
JO 753
Has No Life
Posts: 14394
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 3:21 pm
Custom Title: rezident owtsidr
Location: BLaNDLaND

Re: Maria Butina's Crime

Post by JO 753 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:59 am

Cant find anything in the newz about Aleksander Torshin dying. He suppozedly retired and cant be reached, but I dont think that meanz he haz been permanently disappeared.
Gubmint for us
http://www.7532020.com
not the rich.

Tom Palven
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5922
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:29 am

Re: Maria Butina's Crime

Post by Tom Palven » Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:07 pm

ElectricMonk wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:54 am
Simple - one is declared, the other isn't.

And there is absolutely nothing similar to her case and that of the Chinese CFO: she is detained because the US wants to isolate Iran. Trump has suggested that she could be a bargaining chip in his trade war with China.

The similarity is that the are both hypocritical US government establishment crap, imvho.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

User avatar
scrmbldggs
Real Skeptic
Posts: 25972
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 7:55 am
Custom Title: something
Location: somewhere

Re: Maria Butina's Crime

Post by scrmbldggs » Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:55 pm

JO 753 wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:59 am
Cant find anything in the newz about Aleksander Torshin dying. He suppozedly retired and cant be reached, but I dont think that meanz he haz been permanently disappeared.
His Twitter feed claims he's on vacation in one of the Stans - where it says the local food is outstanding, especially the bread and the water. ;)
.
Lard, save me from your followers.

User avatar
JO 753
Has No Life
Posts: 14394
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 3:21 pm
Custom Title: rezident owtsidr
Location: BLaNDLaND

Re: Maria Butina's Crime

Post by JO 753 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:32 pm

Maddow mentioned that last week. I suppoze its possibly bad for him, but it coud also mean he haz been hidden voluntarily. A well dezerved vacation after a job well dun.
Gubmint for us
http://www.7532020.com
not the rich.

Matthew Ellard
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 30277
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am
Custom Title: Big Beautiful Bouncy Skeptic

Tom Palven is an idiot 3

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:31 am

Tom Palven wrote: How does her position, effectively as a lobbyist for Russia (and Russian arms manufacturers?), differ from the positions of foreign ambassadors of all nations,
You are an idiot. Maria Butina is a covert foreign unregistered agent for a foreign power. An ambassador is a registered agent.

This is bread and butter work for the Russian SVR and not related to Trump. Her task was to penetrate the NRA and determine its future policy, influence its future policy and note US citizens who can be blackmailed or bribed for Russia's benefit in the future.

You have registered workers from the consulate (The Residentura") , you have registered agents for foreign firms ( "A commercial Boris") and unregistered spies ("illegals")

The Illegals Program (so named by the United States Department of Justice) was a network of Russian sleeper agents under non-official cover.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegals_Program

Matthew Ellard
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 30277
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am
Custom Title: Big Beautiful Bouncy Skeptic

Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:26 am

Tom Palven wrote:Jacob Hornberger uses the term "US National Establishment."
Jacob Hornberger is a propagandist blogger for the extremist conservative Libertarian party who directly lied and stated "Butina pled guilty to the grave federal criminal offense of befriending the United States."

In reality, Maria Butina pleaded guilty to conspiracy as an unregistered agent of the Russian Federation of the Foreign Agents Registration Act (1938)

Stop posting links to your fake news propaganda blogs on our forum. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Matthew Ellard
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 30277
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am
Custom Title: Big Beautiful Bouncy Skeptic

Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:46 am

Tom Palven wrote: Yes, Virginia, there is a deep state.
https://consortiumnews.com/2018/12/13/y ... xposed-it/
Again. Stop spamming this forum with your pro Donald Trump conservative propaganda

From the link
"A year ago yesterday, it became fully clear what was behind the feverish attempt by our intelligence agencies and their mainstream media accomplices to emasculate President Donald Trump with the Russia-gate trope."

12 Russian GRU (Signals) agents have been indicted for doing exactly what you claim they didn't do.

The "Deep State" is simply Fox News "pro-Trump" propaganda that you keep spamming on our skeptic forum.
Deep state Fox Clean 4.jpg
hannity deep state 6.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
JO 753
Has No Life
Posts: 14394
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 3:21 pm
Custom Title: rezident owtsidr
Location: BLaNDLaND

Re: Maria Butina's Crime

Post by JO 753 » Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:35 am

Butina kicked off the PR campane to get rid uv the Russia sanctionz. Quite clearly pre-arranjed:
Gubmint for us
http://www.7532020.com
not the rich.

Tom Palven
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5922
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:29 am

Re: Maria Butina's Crime

Post by Tom Palven » Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:52 pm

The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation has huge offices in China.

His company sells huge amounts of goods to China and buys huge amounts.
http://archive.fortune.com/magazines/fo ... index2.htm

He wants the US government establishment (deep state) to have good relations with China.

He doesn't want sanctions on China.

Does that make him a bad person?

Should the US arrest him?

Should the Chinese arrest him?

Do the Chinese license him and Melinda as Foreign Agents?

Who knows?

Who cares except Matthew Ellard?

Does it friggin' matter?

"To be GOVERNED is to be watched, inspected, spied upon, directed, law-driven, numbered, regulated, enrolled, indoctrinated, preached at, controlled, checked, estimated, valued, censured, commanded, by creatures who have neither the right nor the wisdom nor the virtue to do so. "-Pierre-Joseph Proudhon
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

Matthew Ellard
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 30277
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am
Custom Title: Big Beautiful Bouncy Skeptic

Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:56 am

Tom Palven wrote:The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation has huge offices in China. His company sells huge amounts of goods to China and buys huge amounts. He wants the US government establishment (deep state) to have good relations with China. He doesn't want sanctions on China.

Do the Chinese license him and Melinda as Foreign Agents?
Yes you complete idiot. Their companies are required by law to be registered as exporters and importers in both China and the USA

USA Customs and Border Protection / Register as an importer and/or exporter.
https://www.cbp.gov/trade/basic-import- ... orter-tips
China - Import Requirements and Documentation
https://www.export.gov/article?id=China ... umentation
Tom Palven wrote:Who cares except Matthew Ellard?
The tax collectors on imports and exports in the People's Republic of China and the United States of America.

Why are you so continuously so stupid and ignorant about the world? :lol: :lol: :lol:

User avatar
TJrandom
Has No Life
Posts: 11199
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:55 am
Location: Pacific coast outside of Tokyo bay.

Re: Maria Butina's Crime

Post by TJrandom » Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:26 am

Tom - the 'deep state' has good relations with China - the regulators, the inspectors, the workers in government offices who are doing the job they were hired to do. It is Trump who doesn't.

Tom Palven
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5922
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:29 am

Re: Maria Butina's Crime

Post by Tom Palven » Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:32 am

TJrandom wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:26 am
Tom - the 'deep state' has good relations with China - the regulators, the inspectors, the workers in government offices who are doing the job they were hired to do. It is Trump who doesn't.
Trump has certainly impaired relations with China, but wasn't he embarrassed to learn that Meng Hongwei had been accosted by Canadian police at the behest of "workers in government offices doing the job they were hired to do" while he was conferring with Chinese officials?

And aren't these same "workers in government offices who are doing the job they were hired to do" doing everyting in their power to prevent good relations with Iran, North Korea, and Russia, and retain those countries as enemies, while excusing anything at all that Egypt, Israel, or Saudi Arabia does?
Last edited by Tom Palven on Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

Matthew Ellard
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 30277
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am
Custom Title: Big Beautiful Bouncy Skeptic

Re: Maria Butina's Crime

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:32 am

Tom Palven wrote:He wants the US government establishment (deep state) to have good relations with China.
TJrandom wrote:Tom - the 'deep state' has good relations with China - the regulators, the inspectors, the workers in government offices who are doing the job they were hired to do. It is Trump who doesn't.
Tom Palven can't actually define who or what, is the "Deep State". It is simply anyone who Tom Palven doesn't like. In the 50's he would claim anyone he didn't like was a "pinko". I assume Tom Palven was scared of the "bogeyman" when he was a kid and never worked out the "bogeyman" wasn't real. :D

Matthew Ellard
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 30277
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am
Custom Title: Big Beautiful Bouncy Skeptic

Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:39 am

Tom Palven wrote: Trump has certainly impaired relations with China, but wasn't he embarrassed to learn that Meng Hongwei had been accosted by Canadian police at the behest of "workers in government offices doing the job they were hired to do" while he was conferring with Chinese officials?
Meng Hongwei, from Interpol, wan't accosted by Canadian police. He was arrested in China. Why do you lie all the time?

"China's anti-corruption watchdog says it is investigating Meng Hongwei, who heads the global law enforcement organisation Interpol, for suspected violations of the law."
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-08/ ... s/10349408

Tom Palven wrote:And aren't these same "workers in government offices who are doing the job they were hired to do" doing everyting in their power to prevent good relations with Iran, North Korea, and Russia, and retain those countries as enemies?
No, you complete moron. Trump's government directs foreign affairs, not the people who run the day to day workings.

You really don't have a clue about your own government do you?
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Last edited by Matthew Ellard on Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
TJrandom
Has No Life
Posts: 11199
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:55 am
Location: Pacific coast outside of Tokyo bay.

Re: Maria Butina's Crime

Post by TJrandom » Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:46 am

Tom Palven wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:32 am
TJrandom wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:26 am
Tom - the 'deep state' has good relations with China - the regulators, the inspectors, the workers in government offices who are doing the job they were hired to do. It is Trump who doesn't.
Trump has certainly impaired relations with China, but wasn't he embarrassed to learn that Meng Hongwei had been accosted by Canadian police at the behest of "workers in government offices doing the job they were hired to do" while he was conferring with Chinese officials?

And aren't these same "workers in government offices who are doing the job they were hired to do" doing everyting in their power to prevent good relations with Iran, North Korea, and Russia, and retain those countries as enemies, while excusing anything at all that Egypt, Israel, or Saudi Arabia does?
No Tom, the workers are not doing that - favoring one country over another. That is the wonk of politicians. The workers are applying the laws that the politicians create.

If Trump doesn't want to be embarrassed, he could prepare for his little junkets by asking the various agencies to inform him in advance of anything that might embarrass him. Of course he might need to do some reading instead of throwing his baby tantrum tweets.

User avatar
JO 753
Has No Life
Posts: 14394
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 3:21 pm
Custom Title: rezident owtsidr
Location: BLaNDLaND

Re: Maria Butina's Crime

Post by JO 753 » Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:55 am

I hav strong evidens that Trump lacks the ability to feel embarrassment.
Gubmint for us
http://www.7532020.com
not the rich.

Tom Palven
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5922
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:29 am

Re: Maria Butina's Crime

Post by Tom Palven » Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:11 am

TJrandom wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:46 am
No Tom, the workers are not doing that - favoring one country over another. That is the wonk of politicians. The workers are applying the laws that the politicians create.
You essentially agree with Ellard, who said:
"Trump's government directs foreign affairs, not the people who run the day to day workings."

I'll disagree and state once again that imvho it is the "Intelligence Community steering committee" (deep state) that controls US foreign policy, and I'll give just one of many examples that I have given elsewhere:

Obama endorsed the "Arab Spring" democratic movement and favored Dr. Mohammed Morsi's government which won a large parliamentary majority in Egypt's democratic elections, but US CENTCOM aided and abetted and funded the Egyptian military as it overthrew the democratically-elected government and installed the barbaric General Mohammed Fattah al-Sisi.

Morsi, who earned a PhD in metalurgical engineering at the Univeristy of Southern California, still sits in an Egyptian prison, while free speech and free press have been eliminated in Egypt.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

User avatar
TJrandom
Has No Life
Posts: 11199
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:55 am
Location: Pacific coast outside of Tokyo bay.

Re: Maria Butina's Crime

Post by TJrandom » Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:41 am

Tom Palven wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:11 am
TJrandom wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:46 am
No Tom, the workers are not doing that - favoring one country over another. That is the wonk of politicians. The workers are applying the laws that the politicians create.
You essentially agree with Ellard, who said:
"Trump's government directs foreign affairs, not the people who run the day to day workings."

I'll disagree and state once again that imvho it is the "Intelligence Community steering committee" (deep state) that controls US foreign policy, and I'll give just one of many examples that I have given elsewhere:

Obama endorsed the "Arab Spring" democratic movement and favored Dr. Mohammed Morsi's government which won a large parliamentary majority in Egypt's democratic elections, but US CENTCOM aided and abetted and funded the Egyptian military as it overthrew the democratically-elected government and installed the barbaric General Mohammed Fattah al-Sisi.

Morsi, who earned a PhD in metalurgical engineering at the Univeristy of Southern California, still sits in an Egyptian prison, while free speech and free press have been eliminated in Egypt.
So your claim is that theatre level military personnel - generals, colonels, majors - who are employed by their respective military branches and who work for the DOD, took it upon themselves to support the overthrow of a government - without following (and contrary to) the wishes of politicians? Surely they were all court marshalled. Please do support this claim with appropriate DOD links. Or just maybe you don’t know what CENTCOM is?

Tom Palven
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5922
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:29 am

Re: Maria Butina's Crime

Post by Tom Palven » Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:12 am

TJrandom wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:41 am

So your claim is that theatre level military personnel - generals, colonels, majors - who are employed by their respective military branches and who work for the DOD, took it upon themselves to support the overthrow of a government - without following (and contrary to) the wishes of politicians? Surely they were all court marshalled. Please do support this claim with appropriate DOD links. Or just maybe you don’t know what CENTCOM is?

I know what CENTCOM is.

Imvho, CENTCOM got it's marching orders from "The Intelligence Community Steering Committee," not Commander-in-Chief Obama.

Remember, it was not until Obama apologized to Iran that the US public knew for sure that the CIA helped British MI6 overthrow the only Mid-Eastern Arab democracy in 1953, and some neoconservatives in in the intelligence community went ape-sh-t over that apology.


We may not know for sure what transpired in Egypt or in the unsuccessful coup attempt in Turkey for another 50 years unless Snowden gets his hands on some secret documents since, of course, the secret police act in secret, so I can't link you to smoking guns.

Simply voicing an opinion.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

Matthew Ellard
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 30277
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am
Custom Title: Big Beautiful Bouncy Skeptic

Tom Palven is an idiot 2

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:59 am

Tom Palven wrote:You essentially agree with Ellard, who said: "Trump's government directs foreign affairs, not the people who run the day to day workings."
That's right Tom Palven.
Tom Palven wrote:I'll disagree
....and what is your evidence that permanent public servants who advise the government have the real control? Show me the US law that states that? (You can't can you, you complete idiot.)
Tom Palven wrote:.... it is the "Intelligence Community steering committee" (deep state) that controls US foreign policy,
You absolute moron. The Director of National Intelligence is appointed by the President, and ensures all seventeen agencies coordinate their activities to perform their instructions from the elected government.

Why are you so ignorant and stupid? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Yogi bear 20.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
TJrandom
Has No Life
Posts: 11199
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:55 am
Location: Pacific coast outside of Tokyo bay.

Re: Maria Butina's Crime

Post by TJrandom » Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:39 am

Tom Palven wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:12 am

Simply voicing an opinion.
Ah, well you know what they say about that... just like {!#%@}...

Matthew Ellard
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 30277
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am
Custom Title: Big Beautiful Bouncy Skeptic

Tom Palven is an idiot 3

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Dec 20, 2018 5:19 am

Tom Palven wrote:Trump .... wasn't ....embarrassed to learn that Meng Hongwei had been accosted by Canadian police
Tom Palven? Have you worked out that Canadian police don't "accost" people in China yet?

Interpol Chief Meng Hongwei Quits and Is Detained by China
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/07/worl ... ngwei.html


You do know Canada isn't part of China right? :lol: :lol: :lol:

User avatar
Gord
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 34371
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:44 am
Custom Title: My nightmare
Location: Transcona

Re: Maria Butina's Crime

Post by Gord » Thu Dec 20, 2018 5:24 am

TJrandom wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:39 am
Tom Palven wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:12 am

Simply voicing an opinion.
Ah, well you know what they say about that... just like {!#%@}...
"Get your thumb out of my opinion"?
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE
Is Trump in jail yet?

Tom Palven
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5922
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:29 am

Re: Maria Butina's Crime

Post by Tom Palven » Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:14 am

TJrandom wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:39 am
Tom Palven wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:12 am

Simply voicing an opinion.
Ah, well you know what they say about that... just like {!#%@}...
Iazzat all you got?

Won't you confirm that I'm an idiot?
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

User avatar
TJrandom
Has No Life
Posts: 11199
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:55 am
Location: Pacific coast outside of Tokyo bay.

Re: Maria Butina's Crime

Post by TJrandom » Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:09 pm

Tom Palven wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:14 am
TJrandom wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:39 am
Tom Palven wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:12 am

Simply voicing an opinion.
Ah, well you know what they say about that... just like {!#%@}...
Iazzat all you got?

Won't you confirm that I'm an idiot?
No Tom, I was actually hoping that you had something more to your little story. As I suggested, had it actually occurred as you suggested there certainly would have been court marshals. And no amount of government hiding would have been able to cover up the sacking of such high profile (but lowly deep state) operatives - given that their careers would have been terminated, thrown into poverty, divorced, and now living homelessly on the streets of NY, or even suicides. These events, were your story true, should be easily discoverable and surely as a good skeptic you would have had them, or other such evidence close at hand.

For the record, I do not like the US disrupting democratically elected governments. But I also don`t like to waste time on conspiracy theories.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 17038
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: After being pimped comes-----

Re: Maria Butina's Crime

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:23 pm

[quote="Tom Palven" post_id=687936 time=1545199953 user_id=5013

Remember, it was not until Obama apologized to Iran that the US public knew for sure that the CIA helped British MI6 overthrow the only Mid-Eastern Arab democracy in 1953, and some neoconservatives in in the intelligence community went ape-sh-t over that apology.[/quote]

Do you think this CIA activity was not directed by the Head of the CIA?.....a civilian reporting to the President?.....or one step away depending on the Cabinet duties at that time. Seems to me your proof goes against your claim??????
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

Matthew Ellard
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 30277
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am
Custom Title: Big Beautiful Bouncy Skeptic

Tom Palven is an idiot 3

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:46 pm

Tom Palven wrote: Won't you confirm that I'm an idiot?
Everyone here already knows that you are an idiot. You are the dumber version of Gorgeous. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Tom Palven wrote: Deep State, Deep State, James Clapper is evil, Deep State, Deep State, Jong Un is good person, Deep State, Deep State, 1961 Military Industrial Complex, Deep State, Deep State, Afghanistan is French Vichy, Deep State Deep State,
TGorgeous wrote: Seth said, Alien-lizards rule Earth, Seth, Seth, Seth, Illuminati Rules Earth, Seth Seth Seth, Roswell is real, Seth, Seth Seth, Bush was Hitler's banker, Seth, Seth, Seth,

User avatar
JO 753
Has No Life
Posts: 14394
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 3:21 pm
Custom Title: rezident owtsidr
Location: BLaNDLaND

Re: Maria Butina's Crime

Post by JO 753 » Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:11 am

Tom iznt dum, he just got sucked into the vast Fox - GoP eko chamber, within wich are trap doorz to deeper levelz uv dillusion.

Being a permanent rezident uv another eko chamber, you shoud understand how it duznt require idiosy to get fooled. (UFO)
Gubmint for us
http://www.7532020.com
not the rich.

Matthew Ellard
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 30277
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am
Custom Title: Big Beautiful Bouncy Skeptic

Tom Palven is an idiot 3

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:23 am

JO 753 wrote: Tom iznt dum, he just got sucked into the vast Fox - GoP eko chamber,
Nope. Tom Palven specifically spams conservative Fox News propaganda on our forum. Every couple of months he claims the USA intelligence agencies are the "Deep State" against Trump. We keep informing him that Trump actually appointed the directors himself...........so Tom Palven waits a month, opens a new thread and makes exactly the same claim, knowing he is lying. .
DNI appointed by the President.JPG
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Director_ ... telligence
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
JO 753
Has No Life
Posts: 14394
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 3:21 pm
Custom Title: rezident owtsidr
Location: BLaNDLaND

Re: Maria Butina's Crime

Post by JO 753 » Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:38 am

Youv forgotten alredy?
Gubmint for us
http://www.7532020.com
not the rich.

Tom Palven
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5922
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:29 am

Re: Maria Butina's Crime

Post by Tom Palven » Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:04 am

JO 753 wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:38 am
Youv forgotten alredy?
Thanks, JO.
:lol:
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

User avatar
JO 753
Has No Life
Posts: 14394
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 3:21 pm
Custom Title: rezident owtsidr
Location: BLaNDLaND

Re: Maria Butina's Crime

Post by JO 753 » Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:18 am

DA NoDo.

But Mat haz a point. You gotta stop guzzling the Slurm.
Gubmint for us
http://www.7532020.com
not the rich.

Tom Palven
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5922
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:29 am

Re: Maria Butina's Crime

Post by Tom Palven » Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:55 am

JO 753 wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:18 am
DA NoDo.

But Mat haz a point.
There's that old benchmark that If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it just may be a duck.

According to that kind of circumstantial evidens, Mr. Ellard, no matter how much he bleats that he's a liberal, is a neoconservative. He constantly sticks up for neoconservatives like Brennan and Clapper, and attacks liberal heroes like Assange, Manning, and Snowden.

Isn't that enough evidens?

In the name of Sweet Baby Jesus, why am I the only skeptic that can see that?
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

User avatar
TJrandom
Has No Life
Posts: 11199
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:55 am
Location: Pacific coast outside of Tokyo bay.

Re: Maria Butina's Crime

Post by TJrandom » Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:07 am

Tom Palven wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:55 am
... In the name of Sweet Baby Jesus, why am I the only skeptic that can see that?
Surely that was a rhetorical question that you are asking yourself... :?

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 17038
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: After being pimped comes-----

Re: Maria Butina's Crime

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:59 am

Tom Palven wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:55 am
JO 753 wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:18 am
DA NoDo.

But Mat haz a point.
There's that old benchmark that If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it just may be a duck.

According to that kind of circumstantial evidens, Mr. Ellard, no matter how much he bleats that he's a liberal, is a neoconservative. He constantly sticks up for neoconservatives like Brennan and Clapper, and attacks liberal heroes like Assange, Manning, and Snowden.

Isn't that enough evidens?

In the name of Sweet Baby Jesus, why am I the only skeptic that can see that?
There IS something off about Matt. I've called him a Chicken Hawk, is that close enough to Neo Con? His other main attribute is Neo: always convinced, never right. ((Not accurate, but that's the set up)) NEVER admits he is wrong. RARELY answers any counter-pose. aka: lives in the basement of his mind.
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
JO 753
Has No Life
Posts: 14394
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 3:21 pm
Custom Title: rezident owtsidr
Location: BLaNDLaND

Re: Maria Butina's Crime

Post by JO 753 » Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:59 pm

Tom Palven wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:55 am
no matter how much he bleats that he's a liberal, is a neoconservative.
Trying to classify everybody by their political stripes iz a mistake.

You shoud go by wether they are rite or rong about sumthing. Wether they are offering facts & lojik or liez & nonsens.

My brother scored higher on IQ tests wen we were yunger, but haz proven to be gullible over the decadez. He'z alwayz sending me claptrap from the purported 'intellectual leaderz' uv the GoP propaganda network. Unless he'z been punking me for the last 5 yirz, he'z all in with theze professional liarz. Ben Shapiro, Jordan Peterson, Dinesh Desouza, etc.

You haf to be careful about your info soursez.

Hoo woud load suspicious software into their brand new expensiv computer? Nobodyz thinking 'its the best, so it can handle it'. They woud feel like they are at least soiling it and sertainly risking ruining it. Yet peepl rarely think twise about the garbaj that gets dumped into their brainz all the time.
Gubmint for us
http://www.7532020.com
not the rich.