A Peace Conspiracy

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Tom Palven
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As Much as I Hate to Reply

Post by Tom Palven » Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:46 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:56 pm
Tom Palven, the horticulturist wrote: I wish I were truly done with you, but I have to refute this. Smith was only briefly mentioned in a macroeconomics course I took at Cornell, and I read both his A Theory of Moral Sentiments and An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations on my own
Tom Palven, previously wrote:Although it was not required reading in my economics courses at Cornell (The Wealth of Nations was) I had taken it out of the library and perused it, and I thought I had found it to be more useful than I find it now.
Tom Palven, previously wrote: Adam Smith was not an economist
You didn't study economics Tom Palven. You studied horticulture and you haven't got a clue what Adam Smith wrote. Yogi bear 3.jpg
"Modules" is a new one on me, but we did have "electives" at Cornell, A-hole troll.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
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Tom Palven is an idiot 2

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:53 am

Tom Palven wrote:"Modules" is a new one on me, but we did have "electives" at Cornell, A-hole troll.
It would be. It's university terminology. :lol:
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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by Tom Palven » Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:33 am

Peace efforts continue on Korean peninsula:
https://news.antiwar.com/2018/11/11/kor ... estroy-20/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Tom Palven is an idiot 2

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:50 pm

Tom Palven wrote:Peace efforts continue on Korean peninsula:
Rather than linking to the anti-Hillary Clinton "Anti-War" blog........perhaps you missed what is going on in the real world today.

13th November 2018 / North Korea is still working on its ballistic missile program, say U.S. officials
Recent intel and satellite photos of work on undeclared missile sites underscore that regardless of Trump's statements, North Korean nukes remain a threat.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/north-kore ... -u-n935231

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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by Tom Palven » Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:40 am

False claims in deep state officials' press release published by New York Times?
https://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News ... 542146243/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Tom Palven is an idiot 2

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:50 am

Tom Palven wrote:False claims in deep state officials' press release published by New York Times?
No Tom Palven. North Korea's nuclear test site collapsed in 2017. They tricked Donald Trump into going for a photo opportunity, moved their test facilities to another site and kept making weapons

Why are you so retarded and like North Korea having nuclear weapons?
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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by Tom Palven » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:10 pm

South Koreans shrug off US deep state spin:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/sout ... es-n935541
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by Austin Harper » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:54 pm

From your cited article:
NBC News wrote:The controversy is not over the CSIS report itself but how it has been characterized in the media.

Although the South Korean spokesman said there was "nothing new" in the research, he went on to suggest it was "more detailed" than information obtained by his own government and even Washington.

Many experts say the research is valuable in that it confirms unverified reports that had been long circulated among analysts. They also say that it definitively debunks Trump's claims that "total denuclearization ... has already started," as the president put it last Thursday.

The bases show "how far the reality ... diverges from the claim that the negotiations have already succeeded," Sue Mi Terry, a senior fellow at CSIS, tweeted.
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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by OutOfBreath » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:59 pm

Well, that's Trump modus operandi isn't it? Talk {!#%@} and posture, declare victory and do nothing. Connecting words to actual action seems sooooo yesterday.

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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by Tom Palven » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:34 pm

Austin Harper wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:54 pm
From your cited article:
NBC News wrote:The controversy is not over the CSIS report itself but how it has been characterized in the media.

Although the South Korean spokesman said there was "nothing new" in the research, he went on to suggest it was "more detailed" than information obtained by his own government and even Washington.

Many experts say the research is valuable in that it confirms unverified reports that had been long circulated among analysts. They also say that it definitively debunks Trump's claims that "total denuclearization ... has already started," as the president put it last Thursday.

The bases show "how far the reality ... diverges from the claim that the negotiations have already succeeded," Sue Mi Terry, a senior fellow at CSIS, tweeted.

The North Koreans may well be continuing to develop weapons programs, as is every other country in the world including the gigantic US military, but that should not be conflated with the denuclearization and peace efforts on the Korean peninsula.

Abandoning any weapons program probably has detractors and might be difficult to achieve, although it is doubtful that the US has ever tried it.

(I fully expect ASIS to come back with a long list of US weapons programs that the US has abandoned. (Some folks are just a little too literal when it suits them.) :lol:
Last edited by Tom Palven on Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:41 pm, edited 4 times in total.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by Austin Harper » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:38 pm

North Korea building nuclear weapons facilities should not be conflated with the denuclearization and peace efforts on the Korean peninsula?
Dum ratio nos ducet, valebimus et multa bene geremus.

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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by landrew » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:44 pm

I don't want to sound naive, but it looks to me that in lieu of outside influence, both Koreas want better relations, and to possibly reunify. It's not unlike the situation with East and West Germany, where both sides felt there was much to gain from reunification.

The difference here is that there isn't the power vacuum that occurred after the collapse of the Soviet Union. This time it may be precipitated by economic relations between Asian countries, and the potential economic gains trumping the politics. China may decide that North Korea is more valuable as an economic partner than a political pawn.
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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by Tom Palven » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:46 pm

Austin Harper wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:38 pm
North Korea building nuclear weapons facilities should not be conflated with the denuclearization and peace efforts on the Korean peninsula?

Who but US deep state apparatchiki and their media sycophants, the same people who have been monkeywrenching peace efforts on the Korean peninsula for decades, are asserting the North Korea is building new nuclear weapons facilities?
Last edited by Tom Palven on Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by Austin Harper » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:47 pm

I think they want better relations, but not reunification. There's no way Kim is going to give up power and there's no way South Korea would put him in charge of their country.
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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by Austin Harper » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:49 pm

Tom Palven wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:46 pm
Who but US deep state apparatchiki and their media sycophants, the same people who have been monkeywrenching peace efforts on the Korean peninsula for decades, are asserting the North Korea is building new nuclear weapons facilities?
1. The Deep State isn't real.
2. Kim Eui Keum, spokesman to South Korean President Moon Jae-in is quoted in your article saying that they already knew about these facilities. Just because it isn't news (which is what South Korea is saying in your article) doesn't mean they aren't real.
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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by Tom Palven » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:57 pm

Austin Harper wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:47 pm
I think they want better relations, but not reunification. There's no way Kim is going to give up power and there's no way South Korea would put him in charge of their country.

You may be right, but imho it is the same people who want no rapproachment whatsoever between North and South Korea who installed the murderous Shah in Iran and have been trying to get back at the Iranians ever since the Iranian people overthrew him.

These people, sometimes called neoconservatives, are the people who run the US deep state/MIC along with their sycophants in Congress and the US major media, imvho.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by ElectricMonk » Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:19 pm

The National Defense Strategy Commission just released a report on the ability of the US military to fight, if need be, against enemies like China and Russia, but also others:

https://www.usip.org/sites/default/file ... efense.pdf

https://www.defensenews.com/pentagon/20 ... nds-alarm/


In short: we are {!#%@}.
In case of major conflict, it is far from clear that the US would win, and any engagement could mean massive casualties.

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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by landrew » Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:21 pm

ElectricMonk wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:19 pm
The National Defense Strategy Commission just released a report on the ability of the US military to fight, if need be, against enemies like China and Russia, but also others:

https://www.usip.org/sites/default/file ... efense.pdf

https://www.defensenews.com/pentagon/20 ... nds-alarm/


In short: we are {!#%@}.
In case of major conflict, it is far from clear that the US would win, and any engagement could mean massive casualties.
It's hard to believe the US would be tipping their hand like this.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by Tom Palven » Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:35 pm

ElectricMonk wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:19 pm
The National Defense Strategy Commission just released a report on the ability of the US military to fight, if need be, against enemies like China and Russia, but also others:

https://www.usip.org/sites/default/file ... efense.pdf

https://www.defensenews.com/pentagon/20 ... nds-alarm/


In short: we are {!#%@}.
In case of major conflict, it is far from clear that the US would win, and any engagement could mean massive casualties.

Could it be that your link "A Crisis in National Security" is a real load of crap?

Here's how US defense expenditures stacked up six years ago, plus there are the military forces of al the NATO allies.
https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/milit ... rld-n37461
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
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North Korea

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:37 am

landrew wrote: ......both Koreas want better relations, and to possibly reunify.
The North Korean three generations of dictators, from one family, do not want unification as they would immediately be arrested.

The main North Korean underground nuclear test site, Punggye-ri, collapsed in September 2017 and so Jong Un "played nice" until the two new test sites were established. That's all that happened.

It is like Russia pushing around USA elections and Ukraine using computers and small arms to distract from its rearmament program of 2008. Now that Russia has rearmed and about to drop conscription, Russia will start being friendly with Europe to maximise economic integration.

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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by ElectricMonk » Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:00 am

Tom, it's much more expensive to project power than it is to disrupt said projection.
But I agree that the fundamental issue isn't money, as the report, at least in part, suggests; it's the refusal to change doctrine in the face of a fundamentally changed world.

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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by Tom Palven » Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:38 am

About the danger of peace breaking out on the Korean peninsula, "not about media bleating, North cheating, or Trump tweeting:"
http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archive ... rth-korea/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
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Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
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Tom Palven is an idiot 2

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:40 am

Tom Palven wrote: About the danger of peace breaking out on the Korean peninsula, "not about media bleating, North cheating, or Trump tweeting:"
You are retarded right? North Korea never stopped testing missiles and built new nuke test sites. Why don't you blame the dictatorship?

Is that because Trump said Jong Un was "a strong man",, "terrific" "a very worthy, very smart negotiator" ?
:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Deception in North Korea?

Post by Tom Palven » Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:26 pm

"The deception, it is clear, is all on the side of the neocons."
https://original.antiwar.com/Peter_Van_ ... of-neocon/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Tom Palven is an idiot 2

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:02 am

Tom Palven wrote:"The deception, it is clear, is all on the side of the neocons."
Sooooo........

You are claiming that North Korea, by continuing to test missiles and develop new nukes, at hidden locations, is doing so because of "Neocons"?

Do you want to explain, in your own words, how the "neocons" are tricking North Korea into doing that?
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Tom's link is from an anti-Hillary Clinton blog.
https://original.antiwar.com/Peter_Van_ ... of-neocon/
"...what under any other media climate would be hailed as a huge series of successes but which falls in 2018 under the Trump Is Always Wrong Shadow."
Post your pro-Trump propaganda BS on another forum. :lol: :lol:

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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by Tom Palven » Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:27 am

Neocons demand escalated military spending:
https://original.antiwar.com/paul/2018/ ... -spending/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Tom Palven is an idiot 2

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:47 am

Tom Palven wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:27 am
Neocons demand escalated military spending:
You idiot. Trump increased USA military spending. Are you now admitting your beloved Donald Trump is what you call a "neocon"? :lol: :lol: :lol:

"On March 16, 2017 President Trump submitted his request to Congress for $639 billion in military spending—$54 billion—which represents a 10 percent increase—for FY 2018 as well as $30 billion for FY2017 which ends in September. With a total federal budget of $3.9 trillion for FY2018, the increase in military spending would result in deep cuts to many other federal agencies and domestic programs, as well as the State Department.Trump had pledged to "rebuild" the military as part of his 2016 Presidential campaign.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_ ... for_FY2018

(And stop spamming the "anti-war" pro trump propaganda blog onto our forum.)

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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by Tom Palven » Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:11 am

Trump sold out to the deep state neocons, perhaps more willingly than Obama also did.
https://personalliberty.com/trump-sells-neocons/

Sociopaths sock puppet Dubya and his former CIA director father were already part of the deep state, imvho.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Tom Palven is an idiot 2

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:49 am

Tom Palven wrote:Trump sold out to the deep state neocons, perhaps more willingly than Obama also did.
There is no such thing as the Fox News "Deep State" conspiracy. It is Fox News propaganda that you follow blindly.

Secondly, Obama ratified and introduced new nuclear arms reduction treaties. Trump chose to end them for no reason.

Tom Palven wrote:Sociopaths sock puppet Dubya and his former CIA director father were already part of the deep state, imvho.
Your opinion is worthless.

The U.S.-Soviet Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty, known as START I, was signed 31 July 1991 by U.S. President George H.W. Bush and Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev. ... In December 1987, the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty was signed. Negotiations subsequently turned to the reduction of strategic weapons.

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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by Tom Palven » Thu Nov 22, 2018 9:47 am

Road between Koreas to be reconnected:
https://news.antiwar.com/2018/11/21/kor ... -thursday/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Tom Palven is an idiot 3

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Nov 23, 2018 3:20 am

Tom Palven wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 9:47 am
Road between Koreas to be reconnected:
https://news.antiwar.com/2018/11/21/kor ... -thursday/
From your own link
"The big obstacle to that seems to be the Trump Administration, which has expressed opposition to any such deal until North Korea fully disarms its nuclear program, which they concede will take many years."

North Korea is developing new ICBMs and nuclear weapons. There isn't any "deal".

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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by Tom Palven » Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:37 am

News from Reuters, not from neoconservatives:
https://www.reuters.com/news/picture/no ... USRTS2739Y
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by landrew » Fri Nov 23, 2018 4:29 pm

Tom Palven wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:37 am
News from Reuters, not from neoconservatives:
https://www.reuters.com/news/picture/no ... USRTS2739Y
Here's a conspiracy theory for you: Both Koreas would rather be unified, but they are being kept apart by the major powers who find a divided Korea more useful to their own purposes.
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Tom Palven is an idiot 2

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sat Nov 24, 2018 2:46 am

Kim Jong un shiney.jpg
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A Peace Conspiracy

Post by Tom Palven » Sun Dec 02, 2018 7:12 am

Progress being made on inter-Korean railway project:
https://www.truthdig.com/articles/korea ... -railroad/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Tom Palven is an idiot 3

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:50 am

Tom Palven wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 7:12 am
Progress being made on inter-Korean railway project:
https://www.truthdig.com/articles/korea ... -railroad/
That's lovely Tom Palven considering the rail line has already existed since 1905. Have you ever thought of checking your facts first rather than link to propaganda websites? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

"S. Korean train enters N. Korea for first time in 11 years"
"The teams will work to see what needs to be done in order to bring North Korea’s rails to an international standard and make it possible to reopen the rail between the two countries, The New York Times reported."

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A Peace Conspiracy

Post by Tom Palven » Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:35 am

If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Custom Title: Big Beautiful Bouncy Skeptic

Tom Palven is an idiot 2

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Dec 13, 2018 11:32 pm

16th November 2018 / North Korean leader Kim Jong-un inspects new 'tactical weapon'
https://www.afr.com/news/world/asia/nor ... 116-h17z9n

Tom Palven
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Posts: 6253
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:29 am

A Peace Conspiracy

Post by Tom Palven » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:43 am

Former army intelligence veteran and NBC News veteran William Arkin speaks out for peace:
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/02/media/wi ... index.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Arkin
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

Tom Palven
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6253
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:29 am

Re: A Peace Conspiracy

Post by Tom Palven » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:37 pm

Turkey vs Bolton:

According to an op-ed piece in the Turkish Daily Sabah:

"What is happening today (in the US) isn't a policy debate, but a direct challenge to American democracy by unelected paper-pushers."

(I humbly suggest that that this group of "paper pushers" isn't just a few bumbling bureaucrats, but a powerful institution that some refer to as the deep state.)

Anyway, imvho this is a very readable and informative article. YMMV:
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2019/01/tyl ... ish-daily/

(Yes, "Matthew Ellard," I realize that Bolton was appointed by Trump.)
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot