Rachel Maddow to the rescue!
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Re: Rachel Maddow to the rescue!
Matthew Ellard wrote:
And incidentally, that's what they are supposed to be doing. It's their {!#%@} job, not incriminating sitting presidents with BS evidence.
Flash wrote:
And you know, cherrypicking quotes is really cheating, not that it will bother you. Here is the entire quote;
And regarding that last nonsense you wrote...Something about imitating Gorgeous by not knowing about the current Russian interference in the past USA elections?
Vot? Those pesky Russians have a time machine and are just now interfering in the elections of the Bushes and maybe Reagan himself? For god's sake don't let them fix those hanging chads in Florida!
Yes, the Empire will make a wonderful partner like it did in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya...well the list is practically endless.
And being a corporate oligarchy and blood sucking form of capitalism I wouldn't necessarily call it good but rest assured Matthew, it will maintain itself very well with blood sweat and dollars of the deplorables.
Yeap, it's your fault but now you are working so hard to educate me. God bless...So is that my fault or your lack of basic knowledge. You simply didn't know that the CIA and FBI were already working on Russian interference in the forthcoming USA election.

Flash wrote:
Matthew Ellard:But... who am I to criticize your .........
Thank god you are someone and your BS is so significant (to yourself).Obviously you are no one and your comments are insignificant. If you don't know basic facts about the current Russian interference in the past USA election and are making uneducated posts, on that topic on a skeptic forum, you are simply imitating Gorgeous.
And you know, cherrypicking quotes is really cheating, not that it will bother you. Here is the entire quote;
Read it, memorize it...maybe it will strengthen your resolve to be good.But... who am I to criticize your nauseous, vulgar and frankly boring attacks on people like Norma, Gorgeous..

And regarding that last nonsense you wrote...Something about imitating Gorgeous by not knowing about the current Russian interference in the past USA elections?
Vot? Those pesky Russians have a time machine and are just now interfering in the elections of the Bushes and maybe Reagan himself? For god's sake don't let them fix those hanging chads in Florida!
Oh isn't it great that you can say such such nice things about the Evil Empire, pardon me, the best democratic republic money can buy.Well the USA is still a pretty good working democratic republic and still has a lot to offer the world as a partner. Like any good system it needs continual maintenance.
Yes, the Empire will make a wonderful partner like it did in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya...well the list is practically endless.
And being a corporate oligarchy and blood sucking form of capitalism I wouldn't necessarily call it good but rest assured Matthew, it will maintain itself very well with blood sweat and dollars of the deplorables.
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Re: Rachel Maddow to the rescue!
Not to mention gerrymandering and voter suppression.LunaNik wrote:By what metric? Not by the USA's metric. Our federal government, when it monitors foreign elections, uses as its standard a +/-2% discrepancy between unaltered exit polls and vote tallies. Any discrepancy larger than 2% is considered to be a fraudulent election. In last year's Democratic primary, more than 20 states showed a +2% discrepancy, from Connecticut at 2.2% to Arizona at 35.7%. Every single discrepancy was in Hillary Clinton's favor, and the overwhelming majority of these discrepancies changed the outcomes of the elections in those states. Interestingly, the locations where the discrepancies occurred were always places that used voting machines, and never places that used paper ballots.Matthew Ellard wrote:Well the USA is still a pretty good working democratic republic
And that's only one issue. Here's another. There is no national standard for voter registration or for voting. Some states hold caucuses, where votes are recorded by someone counting how many hands are raised. Others use paper ballots that are hand-counted or machine-counted. Still others use voting machines with software that's horribly outdated and easily hacked. In some states, you must be registered to a particular Party to vote in that Party's primary. In my state, you can be unaffiliated and vote in either primary.
Yet another... The Democratic and Republican parties have a stranglehold on the political process, to the extent that it's impossible for any other Party to make headway at the federal level. They control the debates and set the rules for them, and they always exclude third parties from the conversation.
Still more... Democratic super delegates who get to vote twice: once as a private citizen, and once because of the special status they've been given. Elected representatives who ignore the will of their constituents in favor of their personal opinions. The fact that the winner-take-all system means that it's almost never a majority of the population that elects any politician.
I'm not seeing "pretty good" in any of this.
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Re: Rachel Maddow to the rescue!
Matthew Ellard wrote:Well the USA is still a pretty good working democratic republic
Well I live in a constitutional monarchy, so I can't brag very much.LunaNik wrote:By what metric?

I spent a lot of time overseas, and they aren't exactly winning the freedom awards in the places I seem to end up. They mostly go around either shooting each other or stripping the treasury.

I must admit. I am a big fan of compulsory voting by everyone who is of age. (including prisoners).LunaNik wrote: Here's another. There is no national standard for voter registration or for voting.
I agree this needs to be homogenised and made more secure nationally, however I consider doing that "maintenance". Every election should bring an improvement to protect people's voting rights.LunaNik wrote: Some states hold caucuses, where votes are recorded by someone counting how many hands are raised. Others use paper ballots that are hand-counted or machine-counted. Still others use voting machines with software that's horribly outdated and easily hacked. In some states, you must be registered to a particular Party to vote in that Party's primary. In my state, you can be unaffiliated and vote in either primary.
We have coalitions in Australia. The Liberal -Country party is currently in government. The future will mean more fragmented parties and I'm OK with that. I imagine the USA in the long term future will also eventually have a more fragmented party spectrum, however the USA is so huge and you only had a civil war a hundred and fifty years ago. It's still a young country in some ways and slow to change due to its size.LunaNik wrote:Yet another... The Democratic and Republican parties have a stranglehold on the political process, to the extent that it's impossible for any other Party to make headway at the federal level. They control the debates and set the rules for them, and they always exclude third parties from the conversation.
("Liberal" means "conservative" in Australia, which can be confusing as Australia is socialist in general. The left party is the Labor Party.)
Fair enough. I think we share views. I just don't knock the USA when it is having a rough time, like the moment. We had a similar rough time about a decade ago when our anti-foreigner, uber-capitalist, conservative idiots "One Nation" party did what Trumps doing today. We got over that.LunaNik wrote:I'm not seeing "pretty good" in any of this.
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Re: Rachel Maddow to the rescue!
I couldn't give a rat's arse about you Flash. I simply corrected a ridiculous claim you made on a skeptic forum that was just wrong.Flash wrote: Yeap, it's your fault but now you are working so hard to educate me.
The USA is not "the Evil Empire". It is just a normal country with normal problems, that can be fixed. No country is perfect.Flash wrote:Oh isn't it great that you can say such such nice things about the Evil Empire, pardon me, the best democratic republic money can buy.
It's all very easy to simply slag off the USA, but its better to make constructive comments and simultaneously consider you own country's problems.
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Re: Rachel Maddow to the rescue!
Matthew Ellard wrote:

Well, if i said "the same to you Matthew", would that be an insult or just an honest confession? Go and figure...I couldn't give a rat's arse about you Flash.

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Re: Rachel Maddow to the rescue!
Disqualifying and imprizoning your opponents are popular campane stratejyz in bogus democrasyz.Matthew Ellard wrote:You better tell the Communist party of Russia Liberal democrat Party of Russia as they both still hold 14% of seats, each in the Duma. United Russia (Putin's party only has a 4% majority to stand on its own without forming a coalition. That's why Putin is on the campaign trail for 2018.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_p ... tion,_2012
Therez also assault, assassination, blackmail, threts to family memberz for critics and candidates that get too uppity.
Kara-Murza poizoned
Navalny jailed
I watched the Watergate special on NBC yesterday. Nixon wuz running a mob style operation thats not fundamentally different from Putin'z. He woud hav gotten away with Watergate if not for the reporterz sticking to it.
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Re: Rachel Maddow to the rescue!
JO 753 wrote:Disqualifying and imprizoning your opponents are popular campane stratejyz in bogus democrasyz.Matthew Ellard wrote:You better tell the Communist party of Russia Liberal democrat Party of Russia as they both still hold 14% of seats, each in the Duma. United Russia (Putin's party only has a 4% majority to stand on its own without forming a coalition. That's why Putin is on the campaign trail for 2018.
I submitted this link early this morning, JO, but in case you didn't read it, former Washington insider David Stockman says that it's all over but the shoutin'; that the advent of Deep State hack Robert Mueller marks the end of Trump-Pence and the installation of apparatchik Paul Ryan to maintain the status quo.
So far Stockman's analysis has been spot-on.
You win:
http://original.antiwar.com/David_Stock ... -big-coup/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
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Re: Rachel Maddow to the rescue!
A long, but good read. I didn`t see Prince mentioned, but may have read too quickly. It would be very good if he too is ousted. But Ryan? Hadn’t thought of that. Maybe better to give it back to Hillary (joke).Tom Palven wrote:JO 753 wrote:Disqualifying and imprizoning your opponents are popular campane stratejyz in bogus democrasyz.Matthew Ellard wrote:You better tell the Communist party of Russia Liberal democrat Party of Russia as they both still hold 14% of seats, each in the Duma. United Russia (Putin's party only has a 4% majority to stand on its own without forming a coalition. That's why Putin is on the campaign trail for 2018.
I submitted this link early this morning, JO, but in case you didn't read it, former Washington insider David Stockman says that it's all over but the shoutin'; that the advent of Deep State hack Robert Mueller marks the end of Trump-Pence and the installation of apparatchik Paul Ryan to maintain the status quo.
So far Stockman's analysis has been spot-on.
You win:
http://original.antiwar.com/David_Stock ... -big-coup/
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Re: Rachel Maddow to the rescue!
I spent some time studying political ideologies and talking with people who embraced the more "fringe" ideologies and came to some conclusions:Matthew Ellard wrote:Well the USA is still a pretty good working democratic republicWell I live in a constitutional monarchy, so I can't brag very much.LunaNik wrote:By what metric?
1. There isn't any single ideology I can embrace wholeheartedly. Quite a few have good ideas, but all have at least one drawback.
2. All ideologies that specifically repudiate the right of the State to exist can be discarded. None will work.
3. Political terms are being completely misused today. People use "liberal" as if it means "leftist"...and it doesn't. They call themselves "libertarian," then espouse unregulated free-market capitalism, and don't understand they've been sold a bill of goods.
I agree! I'm not sure why the ACLU hasn't fought the US taking voting rights away from prisoners and, worse, from those released after they've finished their sentences. That last seems unconstitutional to me. I'm not sure we could institute compulsory voting here without it being interpreted as a poll tax, but we could establish an incentive program, perhaps a small tax deduction.Matthew Ellard wrote: I must admit. I am a big fan of compulsory voting by everyone who is of age. (including prisoners).
The States' Rights yammerers get quite upset at discussion of homogenizing voting, even though it would be beneficial. I'd also like to see all paper ballots with receipts and a standardized counting method that's at least double-checked.Matthew Ellard wrote:I agree this needs to be homogenised and made more secure nationally, however I consider doing that "maintenance". Every election should bring an improvement to protect people's voting rights.LunaNik wrote:Some states hold caucuses, where votes are recorded by someone counting how many hands are raised. Others use paper ballots that are hand-counted or machine-counted. Still others use voting machines with software that's horribly outdated and easily hacked. In some states, you must be registered to a particular Party to vote in that Party's primary. In my state, you can be unaffiliated and vote in either primary.
It's also slow to change due to the lack of education. Many people fear change here, automatically seeing it as bad, especially if the idea comes from a foreign country. The system doesn't teach factual history, critical thinking, logic, or subjects that create a population that knows how to think; it creates a population of ignorant, gullible sheep.Matthew Ellard wrote:We have coalitions in Australia. The Liberal -Country party is currently in government. The future will mean more fragmented parties and I'm OK with that. I imagine the USA in the long term future will also eventually have a more fragmented party spectrum, however the USA is so huge and you only had a civil war a hundred and fifty years ago. It's still a young country in some ways and slow to change due to its size.LunaNik wrote:Yet another... The Democratic and Republican parties have a stranglehold on the political process, to the extent that it's impossible for any other Party to make headway at the federal level. They control the debates and set the rules for them, and they always exclude third parties from the conversation.
I recall having a conversation with a woman in her early 30s and a man my age. Neither thought that Timothy McVeigh was entitled to a trial by a jury of his peers. Both thought the government could automatically sentence him based on the evidence. When I quoted the Sixth Amendment, the woman didn't recognize it as such and said, "You really believe that?" as if it was my personal belief rather than the Constitution. *smh*
I think the Trump presidency was a necessity. There were too many people blinded by the dog whistles of both parties. And still are. Honestly, I might vomit if I read another apologia for the Obama presidency. I don't regret voting for him in '08, because his record showed a thoughtful, intelligent Senator. But I do regret my '12 vote, which is my own fault for not paying attention, relying on the fact that someone with a "D" after their name was in office. After Bill Clinton, I should have known better than to be complacent.Matthew Ellard wrote:Fair enough. I think we share views. I just don't knock the USA when it is having a rough time, like the moment. We had a similar rough time about a decade ago when our anti-foreigner, uber-capitalist, conservative idiots "One Nation" party did what Trumps doing today. We got over that.LunaNik wrote:I'm not seeing "pretty good" in any of this.
I'll argue this point to the death. Neither Obama nor Hillary Clinton is a Democrat. You can't be a Democrat when you're on the far right of the political spectrum. And this is the problem:

"An extraordinary claim requires extraordinary proof."—Marcello Truzzi
"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence."—Christopher Hitchens
"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence."—Christopher Hitchens
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Re: Rachel Maddow to the rescue!
How can one be a democrat and be a puppet for the Deep State that allies itself with the repressive, misogynistic absolute monarchy of Saudi Arabia, including Bush, Obama (perhaps reluctantly), and Hillary, whose foundation got big bucks from it?LunaNik wrote:
I'll argue this point to the death. Neither Obama nor Hillary Clinton is a Democrat. You can't be a Democrat when you're on the far right of the political spectrum. And this is the problem:
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=bu ... &FORM=IGRE
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
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Re: Rachel Maddow to the rescue!
LMFTFY: "....not the democratic party I grew up supporting...."
The issue being as Saint Ralph Nader said long ago: both parties represent little differences of the Corporatist party."
They have all sold their souls to the larger donors.....giving us the eroded middle class, class divide, disparity of wealth, reductions in regulations.
The issue being as Saint Ralph Nader said long ago: both parties represent little differences of the Corporatist party."
They have all sold their souls to the larger donors.....giving us the eroded middle class, class divide, disparity of wealth, reductions in regulations.
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?
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Re: Rachel Maddow to the rescue!
I had arguments with people who claimed Hillary was a feminist too. Not with her foreign policy record, she wasn't. Her "feminism" was only for people who looked like her...that's not feminism.Tom Palven wrote:How can one be a democrat and be a puppet for the Deep State that allies itself with the repressive, misogynistic absolute monarchy of Saudi Arabia, including Bush, Obama (perhaps reluctantly), and Hillary, whose foundation got big bucks from it?LunaNik wrote:
I'll argue this point to the death. Neither Obama nor Hillary Clinton is a Democrat. You can't be a Democrat when you're on the far right of the political spectrum. And this is the problem:
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=bu ... &FORM=IGRE
"An extraordinary claim requires extraordinary proof."—Marcello Truzzi
"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence."—Christopher Hitchens
"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence."—Christopher Hitchens
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Re: Rachel Maddow to the rescue!
Yes, thank you. There is no political party in the US that represents the working class, women, people of color, children, seniors, the LGBTQIA community, the poor, etc. Therein lies the problem.bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:LMFTFY: "....not the democratic party I grew up supporting...."
The issue being as Saint Ralph Nader said long ago: both parties represent little differences of the Corporatist party."
They have all sold their souls to the larger donors.....giving us the eroded middle class, class divide, disparity of wealth, reductions in regulations.
"An extraordinary claim requires extraordinary proof."—Marcello Truzzi
"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence."—Christopher Hitchens
"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence."—Christopher Hitchens
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Re: Rachel Maddow to the rescue!
At least he'z smarter than the GoPs who are still saying 'zero evidens', thinking they can make it all evaporate if they keep it up long enuf.Tom Palven wrote: So far Stockman's analysis has been spot-on.
You win:
A major hole in hiz theory: Trump & hiz posse hav been covering sumthing up all along. (and I mean way back to the 90z or earlier) I can only think uv 1 guy who didnt fail to report hiz Russia connections - Rex Tillerson. And hiz were simply too public to hide, plus, he wuznt part uv Trump's world befor he got the SS gig.
Thats the obvious hole. The less obvious, kuz everybodyz in the forrest, iz that virtually everything Trump duz helps Putin and hurts America. Hard to beleev it just aksidentally happenz every time.
Iz he creating a Deep State conspirasy theory just to hej hiz bet?
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Re: Rachel Maddow to the rescue!
JO 753 wrote;
And since when it is a crime in America to even talk to the Russians?
Tillerson got an SS gig? Like, he commands Schutzstaffel unit in Wahington?
So according to this logic when Trump went to Saudi Arabia, Israel, Vatican and Brussels he helped Putin? And when he bombed the Syrian airfield with Tomahawks, threatened North Korea (and China, and Iran), put more sanctions on Russia, fired Comey, he helped Putin?
A major hole in hiz theory: Trump & hiz posse hav been covering sumthing up all along. (and I mean way back to the 90z or earlier) I can only think uv 1 guy who didnt fail to report hiz Russia connections - Rex Tillerson. And hiz were simply too public to hide, plus, he wuznt part uv Trump's world befor he got the SS gig.
And since when it is a crime in America to even talk to the Russians?
Tillerson got an SS gig? Like, he commands Schutzstaffel unit in Wahington?
Thats the obvious hole. The less obvious, kuz everybodyz in the forrest, iz that virtually everything Trump duz helps Putin and hurts America. Hard to beleev it just aksidentally happenz every time.
So according to this logic when Trump went to Saudi Arabia, Israel, Vatican and Brussels he helped Putin? And when he bombed the Syrian airfield with Tomahawks, threatened North Korea (and China, and Iran), put more sanctions on Russia, fired Comey, he helped Putin?
I don't think Trump has the imagination to invent a conspiracy theory. But you can't deny that the two ruling cliques of the Empire are brawling and one of them is often referred to as the Deep State, for simplicity.Iz he creating a Deep State conspirasy theory just to hej hiz bet?
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Re: Rachel Maddow to the rescue!
It's my understanding that the crime is the failure to disclose the communication.Flash wrote:And since when it is a crime in America to even talk to the Russians?
"An extraordinary claim requires extraordinary proof."—Marcello Truzzi
"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence."—Christopher Hitchens
"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence."—Christopher Hitchens
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Re: Rachel Maddow to the rescue!
That's great Jo 753, apart from the fact 46% of the Duma's parties are in opposition to United Russia (Putin's Party) and have not been arrested or imprisoned. If United Russia looses 4% of its base in the 2018 federal election it will have to form coalitions with one or more of its opponents. It's hard to have the SVR and FSB killing off the opposition if the next government is going to arrest those people who shot the opposition.JO 753 wrote:Disqualifying and imprizoning your opponents are popular campane stratejyz in bogus democrasyz.
I think you mean China or North Korea where there are no opposition parties at all.

As for the shootings
When the Soviet Union broke up, many smaller countries that relied on Russia, did really stupid things that it thought would make Russia happy. The Inguish muslims were moved by Stalin to Chechnya and after the second Chechen war the friendly government there probably had a hand in the murder of Putin's opponents who had also been active in Chechnya, like Boris Nemtsov. The Russian media treats this like "gang wars" although it is more probably, political.
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Re: Rachel Maddow to the rescue!
The Logan Act (1 Stat. 613, 18 U.S.C. § 953) makes it a criminal offense for a private citizen to negotiate with a Foreign government concerning an existing dispute with the United States.Flash wrote: And since when it is a crime in America to even talk to the Russians?
This is why the prosecution's evidence gathering, ("discovery") is focused on whether Kushner, Sessions or Flynn specifically mentioned the sanctions while they were still private citizens, when they met with Kislyak, Gorkov or two other unknown Russians at meetings.
Please remember that when Obama was still president, John Kerry was still Secretary of State. How could John Kerry do his legislative duty with private citizens saying something different to the Russians?
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Re: Rachel Maddow to the rescue!
I blame Citizens United. Actually - `Citizens United` would be a good new party name for your list of unrepresented peoples.LunaNik wrote:Yes, thank you. There is no political party in the US that represents the working class, women, people of color, children, seniors, the LGBTQIA community, the poor, etc. Therein lies the problem.bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:LMFTFY: "....not the democratic party I grew up supporting...."
The issue being as Saint Ralph Nader said long ago: both parties represent little differences of the Corporatist party."
They have all sold their souls to the larger donors.....giving us the eroded middle class, class divide, disparity of wealth, reductions in regulations.
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Re: Rachel Maddow to the rescue!
Matt,
Don't know if you're aware of this RT report that Australia is halting bombing in Syria.
https://www.rt.com/news/393166-australi ... hts-syria/
Any thoughts on this?
Don't know if you're aware of this RT report that Australia is halting bombing in Syria.
https://www.rt.com/news/393166-australi ... hts-syria/
Any thoughts on this?
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
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Re: Rachel Maddow to the rescue!
Its not. But it iz a crime to tok to Russian spyz about helping Russian interests that are detrimental to the US. And az Luna mentioned its also a crime to cover up any communicationz. Sins they knew this and knew the severity uv the penalty, you haf to wonder how serious the crimez they are hiding are.Flash wrote:And since when it is a crime in America to even talk to the Russians?
Practically! Axing the senior staff and ignoring the press, he iz sertainly acting like sum sort uv Nazi.Tillerson got an SS gig? Like, he commands Schutzstaffel unit in Wahington?
Its possibl that getting Rex appointed Secretary uv State wuz Putin'z main objectiv - everything else wuz distraction & fog so Rex coud do hiz job without interferens. He iz by far the smartest guy in Trump's gang and hiz motive iz clear.
Yes.So according to this logic when Trump went to Saudi Arabia, Israel, Vatican and Brussels he helped Putin? And when he bombed the Syrian airfield with Tomahawks, threatened North Korea (and China, and Iran), put more sanctions on Russia, fired Comey, he helped Putin?
Not Trump! The author uv the artikl you linked!I don't think Trump has the imagination to invent a conspiracy theory.
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Re: Rachel Maddow to the rescue!
The Citizens United case was just the nail in the coffin. The Democratic Party embraced Third Way neoliberalism with the Clinton administration. The deconstruction of welfare? The powder/crack cocaine sentencing disparity that spared the rich addicts and penalized the poor? NAFTA? The repeal of Glass-Steagall? And the Party has been playing bait and switch with the middle class ever since, just like the GOP plays bait and switch with its base.TJrandom wrote:I blame Citizens United. Actually - `Citizens United` would be a good new party name for your list of unrepresented peoples.LunaNik wrote:Yes, thank you. There is no political party in the US that represents the working class, women, people of color, children, seniors, the LGBTQIA community, the poor, etc. Therein lies the problem.bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:LMFTFY: "....not the democratic party I grew up supporting...."
The issue being as Saint Ralph Nader said long ago: both parties represent little differences of the Corporatist party."
They have all sold their souls to the larger donors.....giving us the eroded middle class, class divide, disparity of wealth, reductions in regulations.
"An extraordinary claim requires extraordinary proof."—Marcello Truzzi
"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence."—Christopher Hitchens
"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence."—Christopher Hitchens
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Re: Rachel Maddow to the rescue!
JO 753 wrote:
How do you know that Flynn or Tillerson or Sessions or Kushner talked to the bona fide Russian spies or that they even knew that the people they talked to were Russian spies? And without any recordings how do you know and how the FBI can prove that these discussions were detrimental to the US interests?
No evidence either regarding Russian hacking of the elections or some sinister talks with the Russian spies has been produced. The Deep State ruling clique sent FBI and the media on a {!#%@} fishing expedition to get Trump.
And the assertion that the Trumpists committed "serious crimes" just by talking to some Russians who have not been identified is baloney. I don't think the Trumpists committed more heinous crimes against the US interests than the Bushes who sucked up to the Saudis and let the Saudis suspected of involvment with the 9/11 hijackers escape home.
Now, there was a time for invoking the Logan act. When Reagan went behind Carter's back to the Iranians and made a deal not to release the Tehran US embassy people too early. And now, if the Deep state was serious about invoking the Logan act probably a half or more of the AIPAC members would be in jail now.
The Deep State and it's media puppets nowadays push the view that any Russians Americans talk to are spies and that every time they talk it's detrimental to the US interests and you believe it JO.But it iz a crime to tok to Russian spyz about helping Russian interests that are detrimental to the US. And az Luna mentioned its also a crime to cover up any communicationz. Sins they knew this and knew the severity uv the penalty, you haf to wonder how serious the crimez they are hiding are.
How do you know that Flynn or Tillerson or Sessions or Kushner talked to the bona fide Russian spies or that they even knew that the people they talked to were Russian spies? And without any recordings how do you know and how the FBI can prove that these discussions were detrimental to the US interests?
No evidence either regarding Russian hacking of the elections or some sinister talks with the Russian spies has been produced. The Deep State ruling clique sent FBI and the media on a {!#%@} fishing expedition to get Trump.
And the assertion that the Trumpists committed "serious crimes" just by talking to some Russians who have not been identified is baloney. I don't think the Trumpists committed more heinous crimes against the US interests than the Bushes who sucked up to the Saudis and let the Saudis suspected of involvment with the 9/11 hijackers escape home.
Now, there was a time for invoking the Logan act. When Reagan went behind Carter's back to the Iranians and made a deal not to release the Tehran US embassy people too early. And now, if the Deep state was serious about invoking the Logan act probably a half or more of the AIPAC members would be in jail now.
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Re: Rachel Maddow to the rescue!
You arent making any sens, Flash. Just try to think up a situation in wich Trump & hiz peepl can be innosent AND still lie about their contacts.
I admit that I can think up such situationz, but they are pure speculation and involv massiv long term international sting operationz, alien or lizard overlordz, The Devil... All great storyz pulled strate out my ass.
I admit that I can think up such situationz, but they are pure speculation and involv massiv long term international sting operationz, alien or lizard overlordz, The Devil... All great storyz pulled strate out my ass.
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Re: Rachel Maddow to the rescue!
Australia is now moving it signals intelligence gathering aircraft to the Sth Philippines.Tom Palven wrote:Matt, Don't know if you're aware of this RT report that Australia is halting bombing in Syria.
Any thoughts on this?
Australian spy planes to fly over southern Philippines in Islamic State fight
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-23/a ... ht/8645086
Last edited by Matthew Ellard on Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rachel Maddow to the rescue!
Kislyak was an agent ( not an officer) of the KGB and worked for three spy agencies after graduating from the USSR Academy of Foreign Trade in 1977. He was KGB's embassy "resident" in the USA from 1981 to 1989.Flash wrote:How do you know that Flynn or Tillerson or Sessions or Kushner talked to the bona fide Russian spies
The conversation was recorded and known to the FBI and Attorney General's office. That's why Trump sacked Sally Yates.Flash wrote:how do you know and how the FBI can prove that these discussions were detrimental to the US interests?
"January 19: Yates, the deputy attorney general, and senior intelligence officials debated what to do with the information they had on Flynn. The Post reported that FBI Director James Comey argued against notifying Trump administration officials of the communications.
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Re: Rachel Maddow to the rescue!
But as Flash asked, why is it supposed that these discussions were detrimental to US security, and wouldn't Trump expect the FBI director report to him?Matthew Ellard wrote:Flash wrote:The conversation was recorded and known to the FBI and Attorney General's office. That's why Trump sacked Sally Yates.Flash wrote:how do you know and how the FBI can prove that these discussions were detrimental to the US interests?
"January 19: Yates, the deputy attorney general, and senior intelligence officials debated what to do with the information they had on Flynn. The Post reported that FBI Director James Comey argued against notifying Trump administration officials of the communications.
Who do the heads of the secret police agencies report to?
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
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Re: Rachel Maddow to the rescue!
I don`t think that `detrimental` is key - but rather was disclosure given where required, or were the discussions kept secret.
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Re: Rachel Maddow to the rescue!
If your security system, or your electoral system has been compromised by foreign interests, it would be detrimental to you almost by definition. As for the specific example of the US, I would like to point out to Flash that Trump got elected. If that is not detrimental then what is?
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"
There is no statement so absurd that it has not been uttered by some philosopher. - Cicero
There is no statement so absurd that it has not been uttered by some philosopher. - Cicero
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Re: Rachel Maddow to the rescue!
Flash wrote:
What? You think nobody in the US should be allowed to talk to this guy because he served his country in some other capacity? And what's more, this whipped up hysteria about contact with the Russians is completely baffling. Those who promote it seem to want us to think that Americans are completely stupid, zonked out on something and unable to make logical decisions. Every time they watch RT or talk to Kislyak they become "infected" . They elect Russian agents like Trump and start questioning their political reality.
Flash wrote:
matthew Ellard wrote:How do you know that Flynn or Tillerson or Sessions or Kushner talked to the bona fide Russian spies
Yes, and now he is a diplomat, a representative of his country. Not everybody (except the American ambassadors) can be a graduate of the Mother Teresa Virtue and Purity Academy. He is here to talk to important Americans, to facilitate communications between both governments.Kislyak was an agent ( not an officer) of the KGB and worked for three spy agencies after graduating from the USSR Academy of Foreign Trade in 1977. He was KGB's embassy "resident" in the USA from 1981 to 1989.
What? You think nobody in the US should be allowed to talk to this guy because he served his country in some other capacity? And what's more, this whipped up hysteria about contact with the Russians is completely baffling. Those who promote it seem to want us to think that Americans are completely stupid, zonked out on something and unable to make logical decisions. Every time they watch RT or talk to Kislyak they become "infected" . They elect Russian agents like Trump and start questioning their political reality.
Flash wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:how do you know and how the FBI can prove that these discussions were detrimental to the US interests?
How do you know that it was recorded by the FBI. What are your dubious sources and finally why has no one ever heard this recording?The conversation was recorded and known to the FBI and Attorney General's office. That's why Trump sacked Sally
Yates.
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Re: Rachel Maddow to the rescue!
OlegTheBatty wrote:
Of course a country should protect it's electoral system. The problem is that the US electoral system is not even protected from Americans. Both ruling cliques are willing to cheat, lie, gerrymander, bar voters, leak information, accuse the other party of cooperating with the enemy, use FBI for partisan reasons, all in order to gain an advantage. And believe me they are not beyond hacking their own vulnerable system.If your security system, or your electoral system has been compromised by foreign interests, it would be detrimental to you almost by definition. As for the specific example of the US, I would like to point out to Flash that Trump got elected. If that is not detrimental then what is?
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Re: Rachel Maddow to the rescue!
Write down the timing of the events. You don't seem to know any dates. Trump won the election but Obama remained President until inauguration. So if John Kerry is still Secretary of State and Flynn is still a private citizen, can Flynn talk to Russians about sanctions without contravening the Logan Act?Tom Palven wrote: But as Flash asked, why is it supposed that these discussions were detrimental to US security, and wouldn't Trump expect the FBI director report to him?
Again, you don't seem to be paying any attention to the facts. Flynn was briefly, the National Security Adviser for Trump. What committees does the National Security Adviser sit on? This is the fundamental reason Flynn had to be sacked and maybe charged with for attempted espionage. .Tom Palven wrote:Who do the heads of the secret police agencies report to?
Have you heard of a bloke called Dan Coates? He is the director of the National Security Agency. He hosts the meeting of the National Security Agency (program). Make a guess what this agency does?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_St ... y#Programs
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Re: Rachel Maddow to the rescue!
Read the Logan act again. Can Flynn as a private citizen talk to the Russian ambassador, about sanctions, before Trump is inaugurated? Yes or No?Flash wrote:What? You think nobody in the US should be allowed to talk to this guy because he served his country in some other capacity?
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Re: Rachel Maddow to the rescue!
Wasn't there also a number of things he technically could engage in but was absolutely required to report - something which he simply ignored?Matthew Ellard wrote:Read the Logan act again. Can Flynn as a private citizen talk to the Russian ambassador, about sanctions, before Trump is inaugurated? Yes or No?Flash wrote:What? You think nobody in the US should be allowed to talk to this guy because he served his country in some other capacity?
.
Lard, save me from your followers.
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Re: Rachel Maddow to the rescue!
Matthew Ellard wrote:
In other words, he couldn't do what Ronald Reagan did when he talked and promised things to the revolutionary government of Iran behind Jimmy Carter's back.
And Eggs is right. Flynn would have to tell FBI the truth.
Of course he can talk to anybody he wants to...about anything really, flying pigs, alien visitations and sanctions. But he can't make any deals and promises like...When I am a very important man in Trumps government I will do this and this if do this and this now.Read the Logan act again. Can Flynn as a private citizen talk to the Russian ambassador, about sanctions, before Trump is inaugurated? Yes or No?
In other words, he couldn't do what Ronald Reagan did when he talked and promised things to the revolutionary government of Iran behind Jimmy Carter's back.
And Eggs is right. Flynn would have to tell FBI the truth.
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Re: Rachel Maddow to the rescue!
Matthew Ellard wrote: Read the Logan act again. Can Flynn as a private citizen talk to the Russian ambassador, about sanctions, before Trump is inaugurated? Yes or No?
....soooo you haven't read the Logan Act and are going to keep making up stories. You and Trump have a lot in common.Flash wrote: Of course he can talk to anybody he wants to...about anything really, flying pigs, alien visitations and sanctions.

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Re: Rachel Maddow to the rescue!
....the government’s recording of a December 29, 2016, conversation, intercepted under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA), that Flynn had with Sergey Kislyak, the Russian ambassador to the United States.Flash wrote: How do you know that it was recorded by the FBI. What are your dubious sources and finally why has no one ever heard this recording?
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/4 ... ambassador
Now is the hard bit for you Flash........ can you remember who Flynn was? Can you remember who Kislyak is? Was Donald Trump President in December 2016?

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Re: Rachel Maddow to the rescue!
The NSA recording absolutely everything mite bekum a factor iz this case. Wen therez enuf evidens to convins a juj that Trump and hiz peeps hav been working for the Russianz, Meuller will be able to be able to find out exactly wen Putin set hiz sites on the Oval Offis.
Its like having a time machine!
Its like having a time machine!
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Re: Rachel Maddow to the rescue!
Certainly, one could say that the American electoral system is detrimental the American electoral system. It would be an exercise of the Tu Quoque fallacy to use that to condone foreign interference.Flash wrote:OlegTheBatty wrote:Of course a country should protect it's electoral system. The problem is that the US electoral system is not even protected from Americans. Both ruling cliques are willing to cheat, lie, gerrymander, bar voters, leak information, accuse the other party of cooperating with the enemy, use FBI for partisan reasons, all in order to gain an advantage. And believe me they are not beyond hacking their own vulnerable system.If your security system, or your electoral system has been compromised by foreign interests, it would be detrimental to you almost by definition. As for the specific example of the US, I would like to point out to Flash that Trump got elected. If that is not detrimental then what is?
Any repairs to the American electoral system is up to the Americans.
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"
There is no statement so absurd that it has not been uttered by some philosopher. - Cicero
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Re: Rachel Maddow to the rescue!
Professor Orbison on the Trump regime:
https://www.bing.com/search?q=roy+orbis ... lang=en-US
https://www.bing.com/search?q=roy+orbis ... lang=en-US
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire