Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Post by supervitor » Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:35 am

No, dj, you're wrong again. This was how I discredited you:
supervitor wrote:
what you have to explain wrote: The phrase 'conspiracy theory' is intentionally pejorative

Come on, son. I don't have all night.
Not by calling you "truther".

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Post by djembeweaver » Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:02 pm

supervitor wrote:No, dj, you're wrong again. This was how I discredited you:
supervitor wrote:
what you have to explain wrote: The phrase 'conspiracy theory' is intentionally pejorative

Come on, son. I don't have all night.
Not by calling you "truther".
Ok let me get this straight: In your strange little world you have discredited me by asking me to explain why I wrote "The phrase 'conspiracy theory' is intentionally pejorative"

Have I understood you correctly? If not then you really need to work on improving the clarity of your writing. If so then I don't understand how you have come to that conclusion.

You see how far off topic you are dragging this? Presumably just so you can win some pointless tit-for-tat argument according to your own bizarre criteria to what end I can only guess...I can only assume that either you are a classic troll who gets off on winding people up or you need to constantly inflate your ego through imagined victories because of some underlying personality disorder.

As to what I mean by "The phrase 'conspiracy theory' is intentionally pejorative": that would be obvious to most people but I'll spell it out. I mean that the phrase is used deliberately in a defamatory manner. Clear?

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Post by supervitor » Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:16 pm

No, you're lying. It's a pitty that you don't assume your own ideas. I mean, it's a silly idea, but still, one should stand up for what one believes..
It's quite clear what you meant, even more in the context of your post. You said "is", not "is used".

Shame on you, son.

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Post by supervitor » Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:26 pm

Later on you were able to express "being used for something" correctly. On the same post:
in general it seems to be used to discredit anyone challenging an official account.
Very different from "is intentionally pejorative"

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Post by supervitor » Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:33 pm

Just assume yourself, son. I said before, there's nothing wrong in having doubts and being disconnected from the real world. You share that with many members on this forum, so you'll fit in.

As for lying, that's kind of wrong. You will also meet similar people here, but I don't think it suits you (or anybody else) well.

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Post by djembeweaver » Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:08 pm

supervitor wrote:No, you're lying. It's a pitty that you don't assume your own ideas. I mean, it's a silly idea, but still, one should stand up for what one believes..
It's quite clear what you meant, even more in the context of your post. You said "is", not "is used".

Shame on you, son.
So ultimately your argument revolves around the difference between saying "is" versus saying "is used"

I'll add 'pedant' to my list and repeat the fact that you criticize my use of language when much of your writing is utterly incoherent...pot...kettle...black...

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Post by supervitor » Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:33 pm

djembeweaver wrote:
supervitor wrote:No, you're lying. It's a pitty that you don't assume your own ideas. I mean, it's a silly idea, but still, one should stand up for what one believes..
It's quite clear what you meant, even more in the context of your post. You said "is", not "is used".

Shame on you, son.
So ultimately your argument revolves around the difference between saying "is" versus saying "is used"

I'll add 'pedant' to my list and repeat the fact that you criticize my use of language when much of your writing is utterly incoherent...pot...kettle...black...
Yes, using "is" means you are describing what something is. Using "is used" means you are describing how something is used. Not being pedantic, not even criticizing your use of language, just confronting you with the meaning of what you wrote, because you've been trying to escape from it, probably because you didn't like to be described as paranoid nor disconnected from reality.

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Post by djembeweaver » Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:34 pm

I just don't care any more. I suspect you have that effect on lots of people.

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Post by supervitor » Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:37 pm

djembeweaver wrote:I just don't care any more. I suspect you have that effect on lots of people.
You should appreciate my work here: I'm pretty sure next time you'll be more careful.

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Post by djembeweaver » Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:41 pm

supervitor wrote:
djembeweaver wrote:I just don't care any more. I suspect you have that effect on lots of people.
You should appreciate my work here: I'm pretty sure next time you'll be more careful.
No not really. I'll just avoid you.

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Post by supervitor » Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:49 pm

djembeweaver wrote:
supervitor wrote:
djembeweaver wrote:I just don't care any more. I suspect you have that effect on lots of people.
You should appreciate my work here: I'm pretty sure next time you'll be more careful.
No not really. I'll just avoid you.
I still think you'll be more careful on your next first post on a thread. If you write silly stuff, you're risking being called out on it.

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Post by djembeweaver » Sat Aug 29, 2015 3:19 pm

supervitor wrote:
djembeweaver wrote:
supervitor wrote:
djembeweaver wrote:I just don't care any more. I suspect you have that effect on lots of people.
You should appreciate my work here: I'm pretty sure next time you'll be more careful.
No not really. I'll just avoid you.
I still think you'll be more careful on your next first post on a thread. If you write silly stuff, you're risking being called out on it.
What I wrote was relevant and I stand by it. The phrase 'conspiracy theory' is used by those wishing to discredit people who challenge official narratives and that is why it has become synonymous with "irrational person". What is 'silly' is sidetracking a serious and relevant post by pedantry and ad hominem attacks.

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Post by SiSter AbiGail » Sat Aug 29, 2015 3:29 pm

Irrational may not be the proper word. I think paranoia is the one your looking for.
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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Post by supervitor » Sat Aug 29, 2015 3:40 pm

djembeweaver wrote:
supervitor wrote:
djembeweaver wrote:
supervitor wrote:
djembeweaver wrote:I just don't care any more. I suspect you have that effect on lots of people.
You should appreciate my work here: I'm pretty sure next time you'll be more careful.
No not really. I'll just avoid you.
I still think you'll be more careful on your next first post on a thread. If you write silly stuff, you're risking being called out on it.
What I wrote was relevant and I stand by it. The phrase 'conspiracy theory' is used by those wishing to discredit people who challenge official narratives and that is why it has become synonymous with "irrational person". What is 'silly' is sidetracking a serious and relevant post by pedantry and ad hominem attacks.
Not sidetracking, you're being paranoid again. Challenging what you wrote is the definition of staying on topic.

I also challenge what you're saying now. I feel you're being paranoid. In this case, you feel "conspiracy theorists" are persecuted "for their ideas". Trust me, nobody cares what they think about 9/11, at least no one important. They are described as conspiracy theorists, with the negative conotation, because the description suits them: paranoid people with difficulty in staying on reality. Any "challenge" to official narratives are not taken seriously. Because they are not serious challenges, they fail miserably to the test of critical thinking.

People who seriously challenge official narratives are not described like that, because what they say makes sense, and they ground it on evidence. People like Noam Chomsky, for instance, are instead ignored, pushed away from the mainstream, not described as delusional, at least not seriously.

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Post by SiSter AbiGail » Sat Aug 29, 2015 3:56 pm

djembeweaver wrote:
supervitor wrote:
djembeweaver wrote:
supervitor wrote:
djembeweaver wrote:I just don't care any more. I suspect you have that effect on lots of people.
You should appreciate my work here: I'm pretty sure next time you'll be more careful.
No not really. I'll just avoid you.
I still think you'll be more careful on your next first post on a thread. If you write silly stuff, you're risking being called out on it.
What I wrote was relevant and I stand by it. The phrase 'conspiracy theory' is used by those wishing to discredit people who challenge official narratives and that is why it has become synonymous with "irrational person". What is 'silly' is sidetracking a serious and relevant post by pedantry and ad hominem attacks.
No, it actual helps people deal with their own lack of control over information its not used to discredit. Sort of empowering people to kind of feel like they have the actual answer.....Take for example Princess Diana. Murder? Suicide, or assassination? No matter. Its still a conspiracy theory either way you slice it. Most CT'ers have the idea that nothing is as it seems that we are all being lied to by government, law enforcement and other agencies and no matter the evidence presented to them its a conspiracy. To be quite honest I enjoy reading the stuff.
Last edited by SiSter AbiGail on Sat Aug 29, 2015 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Post by gorgeous » Sat Aug 29, 2015 3:57 pm

" When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic".-- Dresden James ------------ Plato — 'Those who are able to see beyond the shadows and lies of their culture will never be understood, let alone believed, by the masses.' -----------“Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth”
― Albert Einstein
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Post by djembeweaver » Sat Aug 29, 2015 4:02 pm

supervitor wrote:
djembeweaver wrote:
supervitor wrote:
djembeweaver wrote:
supervitor wrote:
djembeweaver wrote:I just don't care any more. I suspect you have that effect on lots of people.
You should appreciate my work here: I'm pretty sure next time you'll be more careful.
No not really. I'll just avoid you.
I still think you'll be more careful on your next first post on a thread. If you write silly stuff, you're risking being called out on it.
What I wrote was relevant and I stand by it. The phrase 'conspiracy theory' is used by those wishing to discredit people who challenge official narratives and that is why it has become synonymous with "irrational person". What is 'silly' is sidetracking a serious and relevant post by pedantry and ad hominem attacks.
Not sidetracking, you're being paranoid again. Challenging what you wrote is the definition of staying on topic.

I also challenge what you're saying now. I feel you're being paranoid. In this case, you feel "conspiracy theorists" are persecuted "for their ideas". Trust me, nobody cares what they think about 9/11, at least no one important. They are described as conspiracy theorists, with the negative conotation, because the description suits them: paranoid people with difficulty in staying on reality. Any "challenge" to official narratives are not taken seriously. Because they are not serious challenges, they fail miserably to the test of critical thinking.

People who seriously challenge official narratives are not described like that, because what they say makes sense, and they ground it on evidence. People like Noam Chomsky, for instance, are instead ignored, pushed away from the mainstream, not described as delusional, at least not seriously.
So do you think that questioning the independence of the Warren Commission and the validity of the 'lone gunman theory' is paranoid and delusional, with no evidence to support the claims? I'm genuinely interested in your opinion btw...

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Post by supervitor » Sat Aug 29, 2015 4:19 pm

djembeweaver wrote:
supervitor wrote:
djembeweaver wrote:
supervitor wrote:
djembeweaver wrote:
supervitor wrote:
djembeweaver wrote:I just don't care any more. I suspect you have that effect on lots of people.
You should appreciate my work here: I'm pretty sure next time you'll be more careful.
No not really. I'll just avoid you.
I still think you'll be more careful on your next first post on a thread. If you write silly stuff, you're risking being called out on it.
What I wrote was relevant and I stand by it. The phrase 'conspiracy theory' is used by those wishing to discredit people who challenge official narratives and that is why it has become synonymous with "irrational person". What is 'silly' is sidetracking a serious and relevant post by pedantry and ad hominem attacks.
Not sidetracking, you're being paranoid again. Challenging what you wrote is the definition of staying on topic.

I also challenge what you're saying now. I feel you're being paranoid. In this case, you feel "conspiracy theorists" are persecuted "for their ideas". Trust me, nobody cares what they think about 9/11, at least no one important. They are described as conspiracy theorists, with the negative conotation, because the description suits them: paranoid people with difficulty in staying on reality. Any "challenge" to official narratives are not taken seriously. Because they are not serious challenges, they fail miserably to the test of critical thinking.

People who seriously challenge official narratives are not described like that, because what they say makes sense, and they ground it on evidence. People like Noam Chomsky, for instance, are instead ignored, pushed away from the mainstream, not described as delusional, at least not seriously.
So do you think that questioning the independence of the Warren Commission and the validity of the 'lone gunman theory' is paranoid and delusional, with no evidence to support the claims? I'm genuinely interested in your opinion btw...
First, I don't care.
Second, I think it's poor thinking to expect evidence from someone saying you're being delusional, when you don't present any evidence to begin with, to your outlandish theory. This poor thinking can also be seen as a sign of a deluded mind.
I'm not sure what you are talking about with your lone gunman. Wait, I remember. I saw that on the X-files! Oh, wait again, it was just a TV show. {!#%@}!

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Post by OutOfBreath » Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:52 pm

djembeweaver wrote:I just don't care any more. I suspect you have that effect on lots of people.
Indeed he does. Even if I agree with many of his positions, his style is insufferable. I enjoy him taking on the resident climate deniers though, since they deserve such tactics to match their own. Mostly I feel a strong disincentive to engage.

That said, any door ajar for truther nonsense should be locked shut immediately. You never know what could come creeping in the night...

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Post by Gord » Sun Aug 30, 2015 12:42 am

supervitor wrote:Not really calling you anything, son
I think "son" is the paradigm pejorative currently.
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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Post by Gord » Sun Aug 30, 2015 12:47 am

djembeweaver wrote:
supervitor wrote:
djembeweaver wrote:I just don't care any more. I suspect you have that effect on lots of people.
You should appreciate my work here: I'm pretty sure next time you'll be more careful.
No not really. I'll just avoid you.
We have an Ignore function on these forums just for that purpose! 8-) (Not specifically for supervitor, that is; it's for avoiding the posters with whom we find exchanges to be useless at best, counter-productive at worst.)

I didn't think I'd like the Ignore function at first, but I discovered it to be very useful when I finally got around to trying it. You can still see that one of them has posted, and if you really want to read their nonsense you can click on that option for any individual post, but for the most part you can just easily move past them and get to something more interesting.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Aug 30, 2015 1:00 am

I second that^. It took me quite a while to use it, but once I did it became an appreciated option.
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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Aug 30, 2015 1:03 am

...and now I'm wondering if our beloved Thank You button will ever make a comeback. :cry:
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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Post by djembeweaver » Sun Aug 30, 2015 3:40 am

Yes I've had all I take of that troll. How do I ignore him / her?

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Aug 30, 2015 3:57 am

Easiest way seems to be to click their username and select "Add foe" in their profile.
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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Post by djembeweaver » Sun Aug 30, 2015 1:24 pm

OutOfBreath wrote:
djembeweaver wrote:I just don't care any more. I suspect you have that effect on lots of people.
Indeed he does. Even if I agree with many of his positions, his style is insufferable. I enjoy him taking on the resident climate deniers though, since they deserve such tactics to match their own. Mostly I feel a strong disincentive to engage.

That said, any door ajar for truther nonsense should be locked shut immediately. You never know what could come creeping in the night...

Peace
Dan

Maybe so Dan, but that door should be locked with good reasoning and on the basis of evidence, at least if you are to maintain intellectual superiority and call yourself a skeptic. Some claims made by some 'truthers' are preposterous and can easily be demonstrated as such. Other claims could possibly be valid but have no real evidence to back them up. Once you have eliminated all of those there are a few left that are harder to dismiss and I think it is intellectually dishonest to pretend otherwise. That still doesn't mean they are true, or valid, of course, but dismissing something á priori and refusing to engage with argument and evidence is anathema to a skeptic imo.

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Post by Gord » Sun Aug 30, 2015 2:03 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:Easiest way seems to be to click their username and select "Add foe" in their profile.
:? That's not the way I remember doing it. But I don't remember the way I did it, so therefore that must be it! I think. That's logical, right?
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Post by gorgeous » Sun Aug 30, 2015 2:28 pm

you are to maintain intellectual superiority and call yourself a skeptic----this is what it's all about , isn't it...trying to appear superior to all others....how sad....
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Post by gorgeous » Sun Aug 30, 2015 2:30 pm

any door ajar for truther nonsense should be locked shut immediately-----------God forbid people want to know the truth....-----------------here's a govt conspiracy ....faking plane crashes...yes, it was planned before...-----Author James Bamford, “A Pretext For War”, discusses the declassified “Operation Northwoods” documents revealing that in 1962 the CIA was planning to stage phony terrorist attacks on the US and blame it on Cuba to start a war:-------more of the Northwoods document----"It is possible to create an incident which will make it appear that communist Cuba MIGS have destroyed a USAF aircraft over international waters in an unprovoked attack. "----------"An aircraft at Eglin AFB would be painted and numbered as an exact duplicate for a civil registered aircraft belonging to a CIA proprietary organization in the Miami area. At a designated time the duplicate would be substituted for the actual civil aircraft and would be loaded with the selected passengers , all boarded under carefully prepared aliases. The actual registered aircraft would be converted to a drone."-
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Post by djembeweaver » Sun Aug 30, 2015 2:56 pm

Here are links to a couple of academic studies that investigate the rhetoric of 9/11 debate:

https://www.academia.edu/2630177/State- ... l_rhetoric

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3703523/

Both papers highlight the negative consequences of being labelled a 'conspiracy theorist'. For example the first paper states that:

"Being labeled a conspiracy theorist can be politically and socially devastating when it comes to being able to argue a point, convey a message, or recruit other people to believe as one already does...The point is that being labeled a conspiracy theorist is a trump card for advocates of mainstream theory"

This paper revolves largely around the role of 'paranoia' in both conspiracy and mainstream theorists. I have been called 'paranoid' several times in this thread and have countered that what one person perceives as paranoia, another might call legitimate suspicion. The author acknowledges this point, stating that:

" Paranoia in this context is not necessarily a bad thing. The old adage, “don‟t believe everything you read or hear,” is a reoccurring theme given today‟s media and the public's general distrust of certain channels or networks"

They continue:

"The conscious effort to understand and integrate 9/11 conspiracytheories into a collective understanding of post-9/11 culture must include the study of how paranoia enacted by our political leaders and propagated by media outlets and conspiracy theory skeptics, is structurally similar to the paranoia engaged by marginalized conspiracy theorists"

So a little paranoia might be considered normal and fairly evenly distributed...

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Post by djembeweaver » Sun Aug 30, 2015 3:02 pm

gorgeous wrote:you are to maintain intellectual superiority and call yourself a skeptic----this is what it's all about , isn't it...trying to appear superior to all others....how sad....
Yes that does sound utterly pompous. By 'intellectual superiority' I meant being more intellectually rigorous. It has nothing to do with appearing superior and everything to do with getting to the truth with intellectual rigor.

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Aug 30, 2015 4:02 pm

Gord wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:Easiest way seems to be to click their username and select "Add foe" in their profile.
:? That's not the way I remember doing it. But I don't remember the way I did it, so therefore that must be it! I think. That's logical, right?
Maybe you're remembering the old and extinct "Ignore user" button. :-P

Another option is to manually add them in the User Control Panel. And whoever decided to change "Ignore user" to "Add foe" in this new version seems to have some issues...
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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Post by OutOfBreath » Sun Aug 30, 2015 5:59 pm

djembeweaver wrote:...there are a few left that are harder to dismiss and I think it is intellectually dishonest to pretend otherwise.
And what would these few be?

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Post by supervitor » Sun Aug 30, 2015 6:53 pm

djembeweaver wrote: This paper revolves largely around the role of 'paranoia' in both conspiracy and mainstream theorists. I have been called 'paranoid' several times in this thread and have countered that what one person perceives as paranoia, another might call legitimate suspicion. The author acknowledges this point, stating that:

" Paranoia in this context is not necessarily a bad thing. The old adage, “don‟t believe everything you read or hear,” is a reoccurring theme given today‟s media and the public's general distrust of certain channels or networks"
They continue:

"The conscious effort to understand and integrate 9/11 conspiracytheories into a collective understanding of post-9/11 culture must include the study of how paranoia enacted by our political leaders and propagated by media outlets and conspiracy theory skeptics, is structurally similar to the paranoia engaged by marginalized conspiracy theorists"

So a little paranoia might be considered normal and fairly evenly distributed...
You've been described as a paranoid. And you've been shown why. Apparently you didn't appreciate the description, because you tried to defend yourself from it. When taken through to the logical conclusion of your own writing, you ended up with the ultimate cop-out in internet world so you could avoid facing reality: dismissing your adversary as a troll.

"he's a troll, so I don't have to reply anymore."

Reductio ad trollum


There you go! No need to confront yourself with the real world :)

You were also told there was nothing wrong with your attitude. It's very common. Here, I'll show what I've been arguing since the beginning:
me wrote: I think you're being a little bit paranoid over there,
...
So, you don't trust the official story of 9/11. So what? Nothing wrong with that, son, I come across with people disconnected from reality on a daily basis. Right here on this forum.
You end up now by quoting a study that argues that paranoid thinking is quite normal, precisely what I've been arguing.

My point, though, goes further than that, son: you are not restricted to those two paranoid ways of understanding the world, quoted in your study, roughly the "Alex Jones' way" and the "mainstream media way". There are other alternatives, purely based in critical thinking, application of logic and facts.

So, come back to reality, son, you'll feel much better and stop losing sleep because buildings don't fall the way you'd personally expect them to or your language might be invented on an office of the CIA.

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Post by gorgeous » Sun Aug 30, 2015 7:04 pm

this is reality....accurate report at pentagon....no evidence of a plane....-----
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Aug 30, 2015 8:12 pm

I'm assuming gorgonzola still is volunteering as a prime example for the topic.
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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Post by djembeweaver » Sun Aug 30, 2015 10:05 pm

OutOfBreath wrote:
djembeweaver wrote:...there are a few left that are harder to dismiss and I think it is intellectually dishonest to pretend otherwise.
And what would these few be?

Peace
Dan
1) That building 7 was in free-fall for a significant portion of its collapse time and that NIST appeared to want to obfuscate this.

2) That NIST declared that there were no witness reports of explosions when in fact many witnesses reported explosions (I have no idea whether or not there were any actual explosions but it is certainly the case that many people reported them)

3) That the CIA were tracking several of the hijackers in the USA and actively blocked the sharing of this information with the FBI

4) That the Bush administration seemed very unwilling to launch an inquiry

5) That Bush would not be questioned alone by the 9/11 commission but only with Dick Cheney

6) That many, including some commission members, think the inquiry was set up to fail and the CIA, amongst others, did not disclose the complete truth.

7) That 28 pages of the report were redacted

These are just the ones that come to mind off the top of my head.

Of course none of these prove anything but they are certainly not crazy rantings of conspiracy theorists with no grasp on reality and some of them (like the redaction) are just statements of fact. All of them suggest that there is more to the story than has thus far been disclosed.

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Post by supervitor » Sun Aug 30, 2015 10:18 pm

djembeweaver wrote:
OutOfBreath wrote:
djembeweaver wrote:...there are a few left that are harder to dismiss and I think it is intellectually dishonest to pretend otherwise.
And what would these few be?

Peace
Dan
1) That building 7 was in free-fall for a significant portion of its collapse time and that NIST appeared to want to obfuscate this.

2) That NIST declared that there were no witness reports of explosions when in fact many witnesses reported explosions (I have no idea whether or not there were any actual explosions but it is certainly the case that many people reported them)

3) That the CIA were tracking several of the hijackers in the USA and actively blocked the sharing of this information with the FBI

4) That the Bush administration seemed very unwilling to launch an inquiry

5) That Bush would not be questioned alone by the 9/11 commission but only with Dick Cheney

6) That many, including some commission members, think the inquiry was set up to fail and the CIA, amongst others, did not disclose the complete truth.

7) That 28 pages of the report were redacted

These are just the ones that come to mind off the top of my head.

Of course none of these prove anything but they are certainly not crazy rantings of conspiracy theorists with no grasp on reality and some of them (like the redaction) are just statements of fact. All of them suggest that there is more to the story than has thus far been disclosed.
Oh my God!! :o so much "weird" stuff!
Redacted pages on sensitive reports when released to the public! :o
The Intelligence Agency did not disclosed fully, like they are supposed to do, normally. Acting like a secretive bunch! How dare they?
The President didn't want to be bothered to answer questions! :shock:
The administration seemed unwilling to do something..

God, I can't finish reading this! Something weird happened there!!
Last edited by supervitor on Sun Aug 30, 2015 10:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Post by supervitor » Sun Aug 30, 2015 10:26 pm

djembeweaver wrote: These are just the ones that come to mind off the top of my head.

Of course none of these prove anything but they are certainly not crazy rantings of conspiracy theorists with no grasp on reality and some of them (like the redaction) are just statements of fact. All of them suggest that there is more to the story than has thus far been disclosed.
"Of course none of what I'm writing means anything. I just like to line up all these weird stuff (while avoiding the meaningful facts) to be thought-provoking make mindless sensible people wonder about nonsense. It's how I role."

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Re: Why do people think conspiracy theorist is a synonymous with "irrational person"?

Post by djembeweaver » Sun Aug 30, 2015 10:40 pm

supervitor wrote:
djembeweaver wrote: This paper revolves largely around the role of 'paranoia' in both conspiracy and mainstream theorists. I have been called 'paranoid' several times in this thread and have countered that what one person perceives as paranoia, another might call legitimate suspicion. The author acknowledges this point, stating that:

" Paranoia in this context is not necessarily a bad thing. The old adage, “don‟t believe everything you read or hear,” is a reoccurring theme given today‟s media and the public's general distrust of certain channels or networks"
They continue:

"The conscious effort to understand and integrate 9/11 conspiracytheories into a collective understanding of post-9/11 culture must include the study of how paranoia enacted by our political leaders and propagated by media outlets and conspiracy theory skeptics, is structurally similar to the paranoia engaged by marginalized conspiracy theorists"

So a little paranoia might be considered normal and fairly evenly distributed...
You've been described as a paranoid. And you've been shown why. Apparently you didn't appreciate the description, because you tried to defend yourself from it. When taken through to the logical conclusion of your own writing, you ended up with the ultimate cop-out in internet world so you could avoid facing reality: dismissing your adversary as a troll.

"he's a troll, so I don't have to reply anymore."

Reductio ad trollum


There you go! No need to confront yourself with the real world :)

You were also told there was nothing wrong with your attitude. It's very common. Here, I'll show what I've been arguing since the beginning:
me wrote: I think you're being a little bit paranoid over there,
...
So, you don't trust the official story of 9/11. So what? Nothing wrong with that, son, I come across with people disconnected from reality on a daily basis. Right here on this forum.
You end up now by quoting a study that argues that paranoid thinking is quite normal, precisely what I've been arguing.

My point, though, goes further than that, son: you are not restricted to those two paranoid ways of understanding the world, quoted in your study, roughly the "Alex Jones' way" and the "mainstream media way". There are other alternatives, purely based in critical thinking, application of logic and facts.

So, come back to reality, son, you'll feel much better and stop losing sleep because buildings don't fall the way you'd personally expect them to or your language might be invented on an office of the CIA.
This is probably the last time I will respond to you (you are now on my 'ignore' list) and this is the reason why:

Dismissing you as a troll was not a cop out or a way of avoiding difficult issues. I am often wrong and can accept that when criticized. I tried to engage with you and to keep the debate civil but you have gone out of your way to be as obnoxious as humanly possible. Your constant use of 'son' to belittle me is a good example.

When I look at it in the cold light of day I would have to accept that you do have a point, and that I overgeneralized in my initial comment and was, perhaps, slightly imprecise in my use of language. Had you argued your points without the insults and vitriol I might well have accepted your criticism...you may have disabused me of some 'silly' notions and helped me come to a better understanding of the issues at hand. Instead you insulted and belittled in the most unpleasant way.

A troll's intention is usually to provoke an emotional outburst from the subject of their abuse and I don't know whether or not that was your intention. Perhaps, therefore, 'troll' is not the right word. Maybe we'll stick to '{!#%@}' instead. Whatever. As I said I tried to engage on the issues and you proved yourself to be so obnoxious that I have no choice but to ignore you.

I suggest you try a less confrontational style in the future but you won't I'm sure. I'm equally sure you don't care about my opinion that matter so that's that I reckon.

All the best ;)