The Associated Press

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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Tom Palven » Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:14 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Tom-Palven wrote:So many factions with so many different agendas, who knows what will happen?
I haven't got a clue either. However, I think that "better evidence" is required to confirm the Syrian government's involvement. It seem's odd to me that the NSA picks up "chatter" about a "gas missile" but no "volume chatter" from the unit that held and deployed the missiles. It does seem odd considering that the Syrian army's "order of battle" is continually updated by a variety of countries on different sides.
Yes, it would seem to be easier to keep track of what the "regular" Syrian army is doing than what secretive groups like various CIA ops, Mossad ops, al-Qaeda ops, MB ops, etc, are doing.

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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:52 pm

Tom-Palven wrote: Yes, it would seem to be easier to keep track of what the "regular" Syrian army is doing than what secretive groups like various CIA ops, Mossad ops, al-Qaeda ops, MB ops, etc, are doing.
It is easier to keep an eye on a regular army as opposed to a fragmented group of insurgents with individual goals.

I've been reading a bit about this recently. The Germans in the 39-45 war had a very fragmented auxiliary force of Latvian, Ukrainian and other nationality insurgents. Germany treated these insurgents with distaste and snobbery. Germany had enormous problems controlling them and they often just disappeared and went rogue. On the other hand, the Russians treated its partisans / insurgents as soldiers and continually pushed regular Russian army rank and esprit onto them. The Russian partisans were promised and subsequently incorporated into the Red Army as battle lines progressed towards Berlin. They got a job at the end.

I'm suspicious that the Syrian insurgents are being treated with distaste and snobbery by the anti-Syrian coalition and this is going to be bad news in the long run. They will not all end up in a new Syrian army with regular pay but will continue to fight for their unique causes for the next twenty or thirty years.

I think it is very dangerous to fight a proxy war using insurgent irregulars.

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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Tom Palven » Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:31 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Tom-Palven wrote: Yes, it would seem to be easier to keep track of what the "regular" Syrian army is doing than what secretive groups like various CIA ops, Mossad ops, al-Qaeda ops, MB ops, etc, are doing.
It is easier to keep an eye on a regular army as opposed to a fragmented group of insurgents with individual goals.

I've been reading a bit about this recently. The Germans in the 39-45 war had a very fragmented auxiliary force of Latvian, Ukrainian and other nationality insurgents. Germany treated these insurgents with distaste and snobbery. Germany had enormous problems controlling them and they often just disappeared and went rogue. On the other hand, the Russians treated its partisans / insurgents as soldiers and continually pushed regular Russian army rank and esprit onto them. The Russian partisans were promised and subsequently incorporated into the Red Army as battle lines progressed towards Berlin. They got a job at the end.

I'm suspicious that the Syrian insurgents are being treated with distaste and snobbery by the anti-Syrian coalition and this is going to be bad news in the long run. They will not all end up in a new Syrian army with regular pay but will continue to fight for their unique causes for the next twenty or thirty years.

I think it is very dangerous to fight a proxy war using insurgent irregulars.
I'll take your word for it that it is very dangerous to fight a proxy war using insurgent irregulars, but i must admit that I don't know the difference between the anti-Syrian coalition and the Syrian insurgents. I should probably just stick to John Lennon's old tune Imagine (there's no countries.)
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:52 am

Tom-Palven wrote: I don't know the difference between the anti-Syrian coalition and the Syrian insurgents.
That's alright. Half the insurgent groups don't know which side they are on either.

If I was a mercenary handled by the Pakistani ISI, would I be "with" or "against" the USA? Who knows?

Yuri Andropov was the former head of the KGB. He was very critical of scenarios where partisans or insurgents did not have a clear idea of who they were fighting for. He warned that if communism fell, there would be no unifying "goal" to allow for the recruitment of loyal insurgents and anarchy within insurgent group would start growing.

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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Tom Palven » Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:17 am

Kerry's most recent statements that it will be the US regime's intention not to remove Assad, but to degrade his air force and army, may shed some light on US strategy. This could be an effort to weaken Iran's only ally in the region preparatory to the primary goal of "Bomb, bomb, bomb. Bomb, bomb, Iran." However, this would imply that Obama, Kerry, Hagel, and the US Congress itself is totally controlled by neocon/AIPAC politics, which, even to me, seems a little far-fetched.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Daedalus » Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:34 pm

There is a simpler explanation guys...

...We're acting like angry children on the schoolyard. We drew a line, he crossed it, now everyone is pissing themselves that we don't look tough enough.
"Propaganda is a monologue which seeks not a response, but an echo." (W.H. Auden)
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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Tom Palven » Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:45 pm

Daedalus wrote:There is a simpler explanation guys...

...We're acting like angry children on the schoolyard. We drew a line, he crossed it, now everyone is pissing themselves that we don't look tough enough.
I think that "the line" was a phony set-up from the beginning as pretext to be used when or if needed. It was unnecessary for Assad to cross it, and he would have to be crazy to do so. Call me skeptical. :mrgreen:
Last edited by Tom Palven on Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Daedalus » Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:47 pm

Tom-Palven wrote:
Daedalus wrote:There is a simpler explanation guys...

...We're acting like angry children on the schoolyard. We drew a line, he crossed it, now everyone is pissing themselves that we don't look tough enough.
I think that "the line" was a phony set-up from the beginning. It was unnecessary for Assad to cross it, and he would have to be crazy to do so. Call me skeptical. :mrgreen:
Maybe so, but in cases of international aggression involving aggressive states, I think it's worth breaking out Occam's Razor.
"Propaganda is a monologue which seeks not a response, but an echo." (W.H. Auden)
"Given time and plenty of paper, philosophers can prove anything." (Robert Heinlein)
"The map is not the territory." (Alfred Korzybski)
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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:33 am

I'm very unhappy with the "smoking gun" from the German Bundesnachrichtendienst. Firstly the intercept came from German military signals interception and not the BND. The BND issued an assessment. Secondly, the intercept was communication between Hezbollah and Iran and the Syrian armed forces were not a party to this communication. This sort of information provides a "lead to follow" not "evidence for the court". The nature of the conversation, that Hezbollah thinks Assad has "überstürzt handeln" ( panicked) suggest Hezbollah is looking for a temporary Iranian safe haven, if they can't get back into Lebanon, if Syria falls.

What is really stupid is that the German military were reading communications between Hezbollah and the Iranian embassies. By announcing this in the press this source of treasure will close. Other better evidence should have been searched for, before blowing this "insight" in the press. World leaders could have been presented real evidence and then been confidentially briefed that signal intercepts "follow the story"

The good news is that Germany will not act away from NATO.

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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Tom Palven » Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:47 am

This piece below blames the rebels. It's supposedly from an AP reporter, but seems I've heard that Alex Jones' has a dubious reputation.
If it's the truth, though, it wouldn't surprise me if the AP rejected it.
http://www.infowars.com/rebels-admit-re ... ns-attack/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Daedalus » Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:37 am

Tom-Palven wrote:This piece below blames the rebels. It's supposedly from an AP reporter, but seems I've heard that Alex Jones' has a dubious reputation.
If it's the truth, though, it wouldn't surprise me if the AP rejected it.
http://www.infowars.com/rebels-admit-re ... ns-attack/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Alex Jones doesn't have a dubious reputation... he's a conspiracy theorist who makes his money by shoveling metric tons of horseshit online and on the radio.

You would literally find better information through palmistry.
"Propaganda is a monologue which seeks not a response, but an echo." (W.H. Auden)
"Given time and plenty of paper, philosophers can prove anything." (Robert Heinlein)
"The map is not the territory." (Alfred Korzybski)
“You’re in the desert, you see a tortoise lying on its back, struggling, and you’re not helping — why is that?" (Bladerunner)

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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Tom Palven » Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:07 pm

Daedalus wrote:
Tom-Palven wrote:This piece below blames the rebels. It's supposedly from an AP reporter, but seems I've heard that Alex Jones' has a dubious reputation.
If it's the truth, though, it wouldn't surprise me if the AP rejected it.
http://www.infowars.com/rebels-admit-re ... ns-attack/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Alex Jones doesn't have a dubious reputation... he's a conspiracy theorist who makes his money by shoveling metric tons of horseshit online and on the radio.

You would literally find better information through palmistry.

Well, we're in the right general subject here, anyway. :mrgreen:

BTW, and off topic, it has occurred to me that Israelis might do better if their government gave up expanisionist nationalism and instead contracted their borders, becoming more like what Vatican City is to Catholics. Any thoughts on this?
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Daedalus » Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:26 pm

Tom-Palven wrote:
Daedalus wrote:
Tom-Palven wrote:This piece below blames the rebels. It's supposedly from an AP reporter, but seems I've heard that Alex Jones' has a dubious reputation.
If it's the truth, though, it wouldn't surprise me if the AP rejected it.
http://www.infowars.com/rebels-admit-re ... ns-attack/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Alex Jones doesn't have a dubious reputation... he's a conspiracy theorist who makes his money by shoveling metric tons of horseshit online and on the radio.

You would literally find better information through palmistry.

Well, we're in the right general subject here, anyway. :mrgreen:

BTW, and off topic, it has occurred to me that Israelis might do better if their government gave up expanisionist nationalism and instead contracted their borders, becoming more like what Vatican City is to Catholics. Any thoughts on this?
The Vatican is a city-state enclosed by another state which is incredibly friendly to it. Israel is a state surrounded by other states which really REALLY want it dead and gone.

I don't think they're terribly analogous.
"Propaganda is a monologue which seeks not a response, but an echo." (W.H. Auden)
"Given time and plenty of paper, philosophers can prove anything." (Robert Heinlein)
"The map is not the territory." (Alfred Korzybski)
“You’re in the desert, you see a tortoise lying on its back, struggling, and you’re not helping — why is that?" (Bladerunner)

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Re: The Associated Press

Post by nmblum88 » Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:07 pm

Tom-Palven wrote:
Daedalus wrote:
Tom-Palven wrote:This piece below blames the rebels. It's supposedly from an AP reporter, but seems I've heard that Alex Jones' has a dubious reputation.
If it's the truth, though, it wouldn't surprise me if the AP rejected it.
http://www.infowars.com/rebels-admit-re ... ns-attack/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Alex Jones doesn't have a dubious reputation... he's a conspiracy theorist who makes his money by shoveling metric tons of horseshit online and on the radio.

You would literally find better information through palmistry.

Well, we're in the right general subject here, anyway. :mrgreen:

BTW, and off topic, it has occurred to me that Israelis might do better if their government gave up expanisionist nationalism and instead contracted their borders, becoming more like what Vatican City is to Catholics. Any thoughts on this?

Only that your suggestion reflects what you purport to despise in American politics, foreign policy and even character: the desire to tell other countries(overtly and by stealth) what to do, how to comport themselves, and what goals to have for the future, even as we do exactly as we please .
And as our leadership determines is compatible with our national interests.

Perhaps it's time for you to make a pilgrimage to Israel, where what you describe (the Vatican-like State) is what the ultra-Orthodox sects do actually have in mind.
Not only guided by the principles and specific rules that god, through Moses, lay down for them (and mankind) in Leviticus and Deuteronomy, but isolated from the rest of a world marching to entirely different drummers.

However, they represent about 15% of the Israeli population, the majority of Israelis are for the most part secular and are motivated less by religion than by nationalism.
Which makes them more or less like any other country.
Which is not to say that nationalism is not as dangerous and disfiguring to reason as religion, but only that it does have other consequences.

In fact, think of the West Bak especially the fertile "bread basket" Judea and Samaria, as analogous to America from sea to shining sea.
But concentrate for the moment on Arizona or New Mexico, and ultimately California.
We Americans took the land from the Indians by force, in effect wiping out the dominant tribes and debasing their cultures as we did so before devising the idea of Reservations (refugee camps, isolated, poverty stricken, and with limited egress).
And we did it, unapologetically , under the banner of a domestic version of our policy in Latin America, Manifest Destiny,(with its patently religious overtones) which was, and still is, another way of saying, "don't get between us and our lust for your resources, whatever arable land exists, and the space for expanding our own population."


Yes, it's ugly.... but it is, unfortunately, not unique.
(You and *I* live by its fruits every moment of our lives.)

And moreover, there is very little talk of giving the land back.
Not now.
Not ever, or until it is wrested away by a superior force (which ever comes first).

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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Tom Palven » Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:35 pm

I agree, Daedalas, that it's not terribly analagous.
and I agree, NMB, that it probably ain't gonna happen.

A while back, Saudi Arabia and a number of other Muslim states said that they would guarantee Israel's security if it pulled back to the pre-1948 borders. And even if the Arab countries reneged on that deal, the entire rest of the UN would come to Israel's aid if attacked after pulling back.

Right now, although probably 95% of the Muslims in the Mid-East are enraged at the treatment the Palestinians are getting, Israel has been able to count on their governments of elite dictators and kings to succumb to various carrots and sticks from the US to keep their populations in line. But, despite being able to maintain a dictatorship in Egypt, it seems that in the Mid-East democracy is an idea whose time has come, and it seems doubtful that it will be business as usual for the for the US and Israel for very long. So, if Israel continues on its merry, expansionist, apartheid way, things may get dicey.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
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Re: The Associated Press

Post by nmblum88 » Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:38 pm

Tom-Palven wrote:I agree, Daedalas, that it's not terribly analagous.
and I agree, NMB, that it probably ain't gonna happen.

A while back, Saudi Arabia and a number of other Muslim states said that they would guarantee Israel's security if it pulled back to the pre-1948 borders. And even if the Arab countries reneged on that deal, the entire rest of the UN would come to Israel's aid if attacked after pulling back.

Right now, although probably 95% of the Muslims in the Mid-East are enraged at the treatment the Palestinians are getting, Israel has been able to count on their governments of elite dictators and kings to succumb to various carrots and sticks from the US to keep their populations in line. But, despite being able to maintain a dictatorship in Egypt, it seems that in the Mid-East democracy is an idea whose time has come, and it seems doubtful that it will be business as usual for the for the US and Israel for very long. So, if Israel continues on its merry, expansionist, apartheid way, things may get dicey.
I didn't say it WOULDN'T happen... in fact I believe that it WILL happen, that Israel, as a modern national entity in the Middle East, will indeed one day disappear.
The bible may promise Israel "forever" but reality deems otherwise.
What I said was that it would no more happen for moral reasons than that the U.S, will return the American Southwest and California to the indigenous on the basis of having belonged to them.
The world isn't organized on moral principles, never was, never will be, but on shifts in power, and national necessity.
And entropy is in the air we breath:
"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings..
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair."
Or, less ponderously, "When Britain really ruled the waves/ in Good Queen Bess's glorious days...: .."

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Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Daedalus » Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:40 pm

I couldn't agree more with Norma.
"Propaganda is a monologue which seeks not a response, but an echo." (W.H. Auden)
"Given time and plenty of paper, philosophers can prove anything." (Robert Heinlein)
"The map is not the territory." (Alfred Korzybski)
“You’re in the desert, you see a tortoise lying on its back, struggling, and you’re not helping — why is that?" (Bladerunner)

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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Tom Palven » Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:44 pm

Daedalus wrote:I couldn't agree more with Norma.
Okay, I appreciate both of your thoughts on the subject.
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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Tom Palven » Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:51 am

The Guardian, from England, is said to be the fastest-growing "newspaper" in the US:
http://www.storyleak.com/data-americans ... newspaper/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
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I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Tom Palven » Mon Oct 21, 2013 6:43 am

Seymour Hersh- the death of Osama bin Laden is one big lie:
http://www.theguardian.com/media/media- ... ican-media" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
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Re: The Associated Press

Post by octopus1 » Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:32 am

Tom-Palven wrote:The Guardian, from England, is said to be the fastest-growing "newspaper" in the US:
http://www.storyleak.com/data-americans ... newspaper/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Guardian is from Britain, not England alone. Some of us are Celts y'know! :lol: ;)
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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Poodle » Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:41 pm

octopus1 wrote:
Tom-Palven wrote:The Guardian, from England, is said to be the fastest-growing "newspaper" in the US:
http://www.storyleak.com/data-americans ... newspaper/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Guardian is from Britain, not England alone. Some of us are Celts y'know! :lol: ;)
The Guardian, originating in Manchester, is now from the United Kingdom, not Britain alone. Bloody Welsh!

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Re: The Associated Press

Post by nmblum88 » Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:12 pm

Poodle wrote:
octopus1 wrote:
Tom-Palven wrote:The Guardian, from England, is said to be the fastest-growing "newspaper" in the US:
http://www.storyleak.com/data-americans ... newspaper/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Guardian is from Britain, not England alone. Some of us are Celts y'know! :lol: ;)
The Guardian, originating in Manchester, is now from the United Kingdom, not Britain alone. Bloody Welsh!
But the cyberversion has made it accessible to the world.... and now it is being read daily, and with great influence by people who have no idea where Manchester is.
And they like the point of view, and admire the journalism.
The Guardian coverage of the Assange and Snowden cases, for example, with their complicated implications and their sometimes murky legal and practical issues for America, has been the best among all the media.
I think.
I subscribe and love it...
The best of the web to me is that I can have an international newsstand in my little office.
And who doesn't love your British tabloids, Poodle?
Those terrific photos?
And their high moral standards?
With breakfast?
Yum.

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Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Tom Palven » Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:11 pm

Haven't actually seen a hard copy of The Guardian in years. Are there scantily-clad hunks in there now, too?
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Flash » Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:54 am

ctopus1 wrote:
The Guardian is from Britain, not England alone. Some of us are Celts y'know! :lol: ;)
You are Picts not Celts. You know the Pict kingdom was ones a respectable (that means everyone was afraid of them) part of the historical landscape.

nmblum wrote:
And who doesn't love your British tabloids, Poodle?
Those terrific photos?
And their high moral standards?
With breakfast?
Yum.
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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Flash » Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:56 am

Tom Palven wrote:
Uncle Sam is Watching You!
And we are watching Uncle Sam. :nownow:
When I feel like exercising, I just lie down until the feeling goes away. Paul Terry

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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Tom Palven » Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:55 am

Flash wrote:Tom Palven wrote:
Uncle Sam is Watching You!
And we are watching Uncle Sam. :nownow:
Along with Associated Press PC, here's alleged NY Times involvement in abetting a cover-up of "a vast conspiracy," Operation Condor:

http://whowhatwhy.com/2013/10/21/monday ... an-deaths/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Tom Palven » Fri Jun 27, 2014 2:38 pm

Every time civilians are killed in Iraq it is assumed by the Associated Press, probably via their State Department and CIA public relations bureau's "inside information" released to them, that the deaths are the results of Shia killing Sunnis or vice versa. There is never the possibility that the violence has to do with resistance fighters attacking NATO collaborators of all religious stripes. I am skeptical.

The joker in the Mid-East deck right now could be "Anti-American Cleric" Muqtada al-Sadr.

The common wisdom is that this Shiite cleric could never join forces with Sunnis. Again, I'll wait and see.

If he unites his Mahdi Army with ISIL, avoiding a bloodbath, the Arab liberation movement could end up tossing out the royal elites of the Kings Abdullah of Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Morocco, royal elites elsewhere, and the sock puppet dictators General al-Sisi in Egypt for America and Bashar Assad in Syria for Russia.

If that happens and the Arab Spring movement thus manages to free the Mid-East
from royal elites and the remnants of colonialism, and protect all non-violent
Muslims, Christians, and Jews, Mookie al-Sadr could emerge as the Simon Bolivar
of the Mid-East.

Is Barack Obama aware of this as he prepares to support the home boys in Syria?
Whether they are calling themselves Al Qaeda, Taliban, Muslim Brotherhood, or uniting under the new ISIS banner, they effectively represent the Arab liberation movement, don't they? Are supposed peaceniks John Kerry and Chuck Hagel aware of this? Is this a (shudder) conspiracy or just plain fubar Foggy Bottom ineptness? :mrgreen:
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: The Associated Press

Post by nmblum88 » Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:59 pm

Tom-Palven wrote:Every time civilians are killed in Iraq it is assumed by the Associated Press, probably via their State Department and CIA public relations bureau's "inside information" released to them, that the deaths are the results of Shia killing Sunnis or vice versa. There is never the possibility that the violence has to do with resistance fighters attacking NATO collaborators of all religious stripes. I am skeptical.

The joker in the Mid-East deck right now could be "Anti-American Cleric" Muqtada al-Sadr.

The common wisdom is that this Shiite cleric could never join forces with Sunnis. Again, I'll wait and see.

If he unites his Mahdi Army with ISIL, avoiding a bloodbath, the Arab liberation movement could end up tossing out the royal elites of the Kings Abdullah of Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Morocco, royal elites elsewhere, and the sock puppet dictators General al-Sisi in Egypt for America and Bashar Assad in Syria for Russia.

If that happens and the Arab Spring movement thus manages to free the Mid-East
from royal elites and the remnants of colonialism, and protect all non-violent
Muslims, Christians, and Jews, Mookie al-Sadr could emerge as the Simon Bolivar
of the Mid-East.

Is Barack Obama aware of this as he prepares to support the home boys in Syria?
Whether they are calling themselves Al Qaeda, Taliban, Muslim Brotherhood, or uniting under the new ISIS banner, they effectively represent the Arab liberation movement, don't they? Are supposed peaceniks John Kerry and Chuck Hagel aware of this? Is this a (shudder) conspiracy or just plain fubar Foggy Bottom ineptness? :mrgreen:
What is this "Arab Spring" of which you speak, Tom..
Interesting post, but confusing.
For instance, how did you decide that Kerry and Kagel are peaceniks?
Rather than that they are two American boys who are in waaaaaay over their heads, and are just playing international "diplomacy" by ear.
As far as Arab liberation is concerned… not that they don't deserve liberation… but the problem seems to be that there is no political theory, idea, affiliation, and/or prognosis for the future that can trump religious rivalries played upon by experts.. and WE are no experts.

Those rivalries are historic, intense, and even fratricidal, with stakes that seem nebulous to the skeptical or irreligious mind but of passionate devotion to believers.
And the Western, or perhaps American idea that gave birth to modern Israel, that having Israel with its Western (read European) bent and traditions plopped right into the middle of the oil laden cauldron was a good idea, hasn't really panned out all that well, either…
What makes it all less than a joke, is that there are fewer and fewer chances (like NONE) to repair the damage we have done to a long ago lost cause.
(I think that translates into 'hopeless." Maybe, not for me to say, we should just pick up our remaining marbles if there are any, and go home before we get our asses blown off once again by little dark people for whom we have had nothing but contempt and have treated accordingly.)

NMB
Skepticism:
" Norma, you poor sad lonely alcoholic. You entire life is devoted to interrupting other people's posts on this forum, regardless of the topic, to tell them what's wrong with them. The irony is, here you are doing it again, with this very post.
Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Tom Palven » Sat Jun 28, 2014 2:01 am

nmblum wrote:
Tom-Palven wrote:Every time civilians are killed in Iraq it is assumed by the Associated Press, probably via their State Department and CIA public relations bureau's "inside information" released to them, that the deaths are the results of Shia killing Sunnis or vice versa. There is never the possibility that the violence has to do with resistance fighters attacking NATO collaborators of all religious stripes. I am skeptical.

The joker in the Mid-East deck right now could be "Anti-American Cleric" Muqtada al-Sadr.

The common wisdom is that this Shiite cleric could never join forces with Sunnis. Again, I'll wait and see.

If he unites his Mahdi Army with ISIL, avoiding a bloodbath, the Arab liberation movement could end up tossing out the royal elites of the Kings Abdullah of Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Morocco, royal elites elsewhere, and the sock puppet dictators General al-Sisi in Egypt for America and Bashar Assad in Syria for Russia.

If that happens and the Arab Spring movement thus manages to free the Mid-East
from royal elites and the remnants of colonialism, and protect all non-violent
Muslims, Christians, and Jews, Mookie al-Sadr could emerge as the Simon Bolivar
of the Mid-East.

Is Barack Obama aware of this as he prepares to support the home boys in Syria?
Whether they are calling themselves Al Qaeda, Taliban, Muslim Brotherhood, or uniting under the new ISIS banner, they effectively represent the Arab liberation movement, don't they? Are supposed peaceniks John Kerry and Chuck Hagel aware of this? Is this a (shudder) conspiracy or just plain fubar Foggy Bottom ineptness? :mrgreen:
What is this "Arab Spring" of which you speak, Tom..
Interesting post, but confusing.
For instance, how did you decide that Kerry and Kagel are peaceniks?
Rather than that they are two American boys who are in waaaaaay over their heads, and are just playing international "diplomacy" by ear.
As far as Arab liberation is concerned… not that they don't deserve liberation… but the problem seems to be that there is no political theory, idea, affiliation, and/or prognosis for the future that can trump religious rivalries played upon by experts.. and WE are no experts.

Those rivalries are historic, intense, and even fratricidal, with stakes that seem nebulous to the skeptical or irreligious mind but of passionate devotion to believers.
And the Western, or perhaps American idea that gave birth to modern Israel, that having Israel with its Western (read European) bent and traditions plopped right into the middle of the oil laden cauldron was a good idea, hasn't really panned out all that well, either…
What makes it all less than a joke, is that there are fewer and fewer chances (like NONE) to repair the damage we have done to a long ago lost cause.
(I think that translates into 'hopeless." Maybe, not for me to say, we should just pick up our remaining marbles if there are any, and go home before we get our asses blown off once again by little dark people for whom we have had nothing but contempt and have treated accordingly.)

NMB
I absolutely agree with the sentiment, "Yanqui, go the f home."
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Tom Palven » Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:47 am

It will surprise me if this news from an Aussie paper appears in an AP story or in the New York Times:
http://www.smh.com.au/world/75-iraqi-tr ... zt2dp.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:50 am

Tom-Palven wrote:It will surprise me if this news from an Aussie paper appears in an AP story or in the New York Times:
We have a large Arabic and Persian population in Australia. Some Aussies go fight for one side or the other. Some just go to take photos.

I'm starting to think that the ISIS insurgency is "running out of puff". They have already over extended past friendly civilian areas and can't consolidate. I'm guessing, their leader, Al-Baghdadi showed his face for internal unifying reasons, rather than getting the troops ready to assault Baghdad. I would think, that as the Kurds have the only decent army in the area, that the USA has the difficult job of keeping Kurds from expanding while this mess is going on. An expanding Kurd force would upset Turkey, which is still a major strategic location alliance for the USA.
Kurdish_area_1992-1.JPG
Kurd Population Areas
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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Tom Palven » Sat Jul 19, 2014 11:54 am

There's a lengthy article that begins on the front page of the Times-Union, Jacksonville, Florida, today titled "Gaza Strip stirs debate here, too."

It presents both side of the Gaza conflict.

Local Rabbi, Shmuli Novack who recently returned from Israel is quoted as saying "there's no excuse for Hamas purposely firing rockets at civilians" and "There are answers I do not know. But I do know we have a responsibility to defend our children and our communities."

Local man John Rukab, whose parents came from the West Bank, "said that the only answer is for Israel to let Palestine be an independent state....If Israel would do that, Hamas wouldn't need to attack."

The article referred to "...Hamas, the Palestinian resistance movement." That phrase alone should tell you that this was not an Associated Press piece. It was written by Andrew Pantazi of the Times-Union.

On page 6 is another lengthy article, this one from the Associated Press titled Israel's march in Gaza could last up to two weeks.."

The article parrots the State Department line that the Israeli invasion is a logical attempt to stop Hamas aggression, that Hamas uses cowardly "human sheilds," and so on.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Tom Palven » Fri Aug 15, 2014 3:21 pm

The Associated Press kept up its 7-year distorted mantra that Hamas took power in a coup with a story on B-6 of the Jacksonville, FL Times Union, today, on Gaza, with "...Hamas seized control of the coastal strip."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 00372.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Tom Palven » Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:38 pm

The Associated Press is still maintaining its mantra in an article titled "Europe offering to help enforce Gaza cease-fire" in today's Jacksonville, FL Times-Union.

The 6th paragraph starts "President Mahmoud Abbas, who heads the authority, is eager to regain foothold in Gaza, seven years after Hamas violently overran the territory.

That is a blatant lie. Hamas handily won the elections in Gaza and Israeli police violently tried to restrain the victors from taking their seats in the parliament, arresting many, some of whom remain in prison to this day.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 00372.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Flash » Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:14 am

So what happened to the idea that truth will set you free?

Well, it seems to be on life supports along with the ideas of equality and democracy.
When I feel like exercising, I just lie down until the feeling goes away. Paul Terry

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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Tom Palven » Sun Sep 14, 2014 2:27 pm

This, today, by Associated Press columnist Ken Dilianian:

Overlooked terror group targeting US aviation

Yes, another scary new terror group that "poses a more direct and imminent threat to the United States..." called the Khorasan.

"Rep. Adam Schiff, D-California, a member of the House Intelligence Committee, declined to name the group. But he described concerns..."

"The CIA refused to confirm the group's name or any details in this story."

Golly gee, this is hot and chilling news, if ever there was any!

(Pyrrho, how about a rolling-on-the-floor-laughing smiley?) :mrgreen:
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Gord » Sun Sep 14, 2014 3:22 pm

Tom-Palven wrote:This, today, by Associated Press columnist Ken Dilianian:

Overlooked terror group targeting US aviation

Yes, another scary new terror group that "poses a more direct and imminent threat to the United States..." called the Khorasan.

"Rep. Adam Schiff, D-California, a member of the House Intelligence Committee, declined to name the group. But he described concerns..."

"The CIA refused to confirm the group's name or any details in this story."

Golly gee, this is hot and chilling news, if ever there was any!

(Pyrrho, how about a rolling-on-the-floor-laughing smiley?) :mrgreen:
We have one. It's called "rotfl" and looks like this: :rotfl:
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE
Is Trump in jail yet?

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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Tom Palven » Sun Sep 14, 2014 3:31 pm

Gord wrote:
Tom-Palven wrote:This, today, by Associated Press columnist Ken Dilianian:

Overlooked terror group targeting US aviation

Yes, another scary new terror group that "poses a more direct and imminent threat to the United States..." called the Khorasan.

"Rep. Adam Schiff, D-California, a member of the House Intelligence Committee, declined to name the group. But he described concerns..."

"The CIA refused to confirm the group's name or any details in this story."

Golly gee, this is hot and chilling news, if ever there was any!

(Pyrrho, how about a rolling-on-the-floor-laughing smiley?) :mrgreen:
We have one. It's called "rotfl" and looks like this: :rotfl:
Missed it. I was looking for the legs-kicking one, but this one is as good.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Tom Palven » Sun Sep 14, 2014 4:50 pm

More scary propaganda from the Associated Press on line, today:
http://www.aol.com/article/2014/09/14/i ... d%3D529021" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot