The Associated Press

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Re: "Ellard" iz an (@#$&)

Post by Tom Palven » Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:51 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:20 pm
Tom Palven wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:54 am
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:20 am
The Kurds swapped sides to join Syria and Russia to destroy ISIS.
:lol: :lol:
So, if the objective is to destroy ISIS, why not let the Kurds, Russia, and Syria do it?
In the meantime, ISIS attacking Americans is ok with you?
Are you still beating your wife, Oleg?

Yes or no.

That's a stupid, loaded, question, irrelevant to whether the US should be in Syria.

You want US troops in Syria, make a case for it.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: "Ellard" iz an (@#$&)

Post by OlegTheBatty » Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:57 pm

Tom Palven wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:51 pm
OlegTheBatty wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:20 pm
Tom Palven wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:54 am
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:20 am
The Kurds swapped sides to join Syria and Russia to destroy ISIS.
:lol: :lol:
So, if the objective is to destroy ISIS, why not let the Kurds, Russia, and Syria do it?
In the meantime, ISIS attacking Americans is ok with you?
Are you still beating your wife, Oleg?

Yes or no.
The question is rhetorical. ISIS attacks Americans wherever they can get at them. The US has an interest in protecting Americans from ISIS. Your government has a right to fight them, even if they had a hand in their creation.
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

There is no statement so absurd that it has not been uttered by some philosopher. - Cicero

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Re: The Associated Press

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:03 pm

"In the meantime, ISIS attacking Americans is ok with you? " //// This is NOT in the form of "Have you stopped beating your wifey." Nor is it rhetorical.

The answer is VERY EASY: "NO."

But the original question remains unanswered: Whats wrong with letting Russia, Kurds, et al fight ISIS? There are pros and cons to all we do.........including fighting desert based wingnuts 6000 miles away. Go figure.
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Re: The Associated Press

Post by landrew » Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:41 pm

Countless groups around the world are dedicated to getting Americans out of their country. Unfortunately this necessitates sending in more Americans with weapons to address the problem. It also escalates the problem, so there you are.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

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Re: The Associated Press

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:11 pm

landrew: I think all those groups HAVE BEEN counted........and put on a list. GETTING THE FRICK OUT....should be tried more often. In the main....I think we went in to protect the oil supply and trade routes. We have our own energy supplies domestically and places other than Middle East and the Trade routes mostly protect China.......so.......we need to update our assessments...........and GET THE FRICK OUT. Try it. If we "have to" go back in....ok. But lets not STAY THE FRICK THERE, just because of a dullard's lack of imagination/continuing assessment. Does everything have to end and continue with mission creep?
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Re: The Associated Press

Post by JO 753 » Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:31 pm

It woud be a grim world if the downtrodden didnt even hav the illusion uv an American hero to rescue them. :(
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Re: The Associated Press

Post by OutOfBreath » Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:39 pm

Tom Palven wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:12 pm
OutOfBreath wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:39 pm
A fan of IS now? Or just anxious for russia to have syria for itself...

Peace
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Why should the US be trying to overthrow the Assad regime instead of something really, truly, despicable like the elite royal Saudi regime or the repressive Egyptian regime?

Ask yourself that question.
Just noting that obviously russians killing civilians is less a crime than americans doing so. Also that IS should be cheered on as long as they kill americans.

Peace
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What is perceived as real becomes real in its consequences.

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Re: The Associated Press

Post by landrew » Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:07 pm

JO 753 wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:31 pm
It woud be a grim world if the downtrodden didnt even hav the illusion uv an American hero to rescue them. :(
You might be surprised at what they are actually thinking about Americans.
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Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:15 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote: The Kurds swapped sides to join Syria and Russia to destroy ISIS. :lol: :lol:
Tom Palven wrote:So, if the objective is to destroy ISIS, why not let the Kurds, Russia, and Syria do it?
Because ISIS exists in 12 more countries than just Syria and I don't think Iraq or Afghanistan are going to let Syria, the Kurds and Russians fight ISIS in Afghanistan and Iraq. Do you? :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:25 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote: In the meantime, ISIS attacking Americans is ok with you?
Tom Palven doesn't have a clue who ISIS, or any other terrorist group, is.

Tom Palven is still posting his propaganda that the Pakistani controlled Taliban are the local "homeboys" in Afghanistan and that the democratically elected Afghanistan government is a Vichy, Fourth Reich, occupation government
This is additional to Tom Palven's claims that Taliban threw out the Soviets, ten years before Taliban even existed.
.

Tom Palven hasn't got a clue. He gets his "info" from a pro-Trump, anti-Hillary Clinton blog that calls itself "Anti-War". Tom Palven simply spams Fox News claims and pro-Trump rubbish on our forum to match his extreme conservative beliefs.

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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:28 pm

JO 753 wrote: It woud be a grim world if the downtrodden didnt even hav the illusion uv an American hero to rescue them. :(
This is a bit silly. The UK, France and other western countries are also in Syria. It is American citizens who think that only America is there because they only read American media. :D

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"Ellard" iz an (@#$&)

Post by Tom Palven » Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:43 pm

OutOfBreath wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:39 pm
Tom Palven wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:12 pm
OutOfBreath wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:39 pm
A fan of IS now? Or just anxious for russia to have syria for itself...

Peace
Dan
Why should the US be trying to overthrow the Assad regime instead of something really, truly, despicable like the elite royal Saudi regime or the repressive Egyptian regime?

Ask yourself that question.
Just noting that obviously russians killing civilians is less a crime than americans doing so. Also that IS should be cheered on as long as they kill americans.

Peace
Dan
Your two sentences are just noxious horse crap, but it's interesting how so many alleged skeptics deny the wonders of Christianity and organized religion in general, and yet are so accepting of the wonders of US foreign and economic policies, which seem equally dubious.

It would seem that the Vietnam War and the $22 trillion debt might act as wake-up calls, but, apparently, True Believers are not easily swayed.
Last edited by Tom Palven on Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:47 pm

Tom Palven wrote: You want US troops in Syria, make a case for it.
Easy. To work with the Syrians, Kurds and Russians to defeat ISIS in Syria before they spread back out again.

You seen totally unaware that ISIS is also killing people in Iraq, Belgium, Australia, Russia, Canada, France, The USA, Libya, Denmark, Turkey, Egypt, Lebanon and so on.

Isis is an international terrorist group that bans female education, amputates limbs for minor crimes, destroys non-Islamic archaeology, burns people alive, and executes their opposition, You like them because you share their conservative views.

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Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:54 pm

OutOfBreath notes Tom Palven's pro-ISIS propaganda and wrote:Just noting that obviously russians killing civilians is less a crime than americans doing so. Also that IS should be cheered on as long as they kill americans.
Tom Palven wrote:Your two sentences are just noxious horse crap, but it's interesting how so many alleged skeptics deny the wonders of Christianity and organized religion in general, .........
Where does the anti-ISIS coalition mention Christianity? Did you forget ISIS is fundamentalist Islamic and claiming religion as their justification? :lol: :lol: :lol:

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"Ellard" iz an (@#$&)

Post by Tom Palven » Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:19 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:47 pm
Tom Palven wrote: You want US troops in Syria, make a case for it.
Easy. To work with the Syrians, Kurds and Russians to defeat ISIS in Syria before they spread back out again.

Who feeds you that BS?

The US went to Syria to topple Assad and deprive Russia of it's Mediterranean port and military base, and that's still the only goal.

Despite US deep state efforts in agitating Ukrainian fascists, it has failed to deprive Russia of it's long-held Crimean port and military base, but it's not about to give up so easily in Syria, and you, ASIS, and Mossad know that as well as I do.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:32 am

Matthew Ellard wrote: Easy. To work with the Syrians, Kurds and Russians to defeat ISIS in Syria before they spread back out again.
Tom Palven wrote:Who feeds you that BS?
Russia and the USA.
"Trump and Putin 'agree to defeat IS in Syria"
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-41953110

You don't actually know where Syria is do you? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Tom Palven wrote:Despite US deep state efforts in agitating Ukrainian fascists, it has failed to deprive Russia of it's long-held Crimean port and military base,
The Crimean port isn't in Syria you complete idiot. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Why are you so stupid? :lol: :lol:
Last edited by Matthew Ellard on Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Ellard" iz an (@#$&)

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:34 am

Tom Palven wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:19 am

Despite US deep state efforts in agitating Ukrainian fascists
I almost stopped reading after "Despite US deep state efforts"..........but I'm almost happy I continued on to see in print: "Ukrainian fascists." Its been awhile since my breath was somewhat taken away. Its not the "thought" of Ukrainian Fascists" but rather that anyone would claim it.

Ha, ha................it takes a village..........
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Re: Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:38 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:32 am
Tom Palven wrote:Despite US deep state efforts in agitating Ukrainian fascists, it has failed to deprive Russia of it's long-held Crimean port and military base,
The Crimean port isn't in Syria you complete idiot. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Hmmmm.....there it is again. TP is OBVIOUSLY referring to the Ukrain/Crimea Port of Sevastapol. Some kind of dyslexia?
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Re: Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:43 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist" wrote:TP is OBVIOUSLY referring to the Ukrain/Crimea Port of Sevastapol. Some kind of dyslexia?
Tom Palven is arguing that the USA is in Syria to stop the Russians using a port in Crimea? :lol: :lol:

Crimea isn't in Syria, Sevastopol isn't in Syria.

Tom Palven doesn't know the difference between Ukraine and Syria.

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Re: The Associated Press

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:57 am

So....TP is talking about two different situation that both involve Russia. Not hard to keep them straight even if arguably he doesn't.........but I will add, I didn't even notice any ambiguity. I matched verb to subject. Learned that in grammar school.
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Tom Palven and Bobbo are idiots

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:30 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: So....TP is talking about two different situation that both involve Russia.
He was "giving his evidence" about the USA in Syria. He doesn't know the difference between Ukraine and Syria. :lol: :lol:

Tell me Bobbo how the USA is in Crimea stopping the Russian's using Sevastopol? :lol: :lol:

SYRIA
Syria.jpg
CRIMEA
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"Ellard" iz an (@#$&)

Post by Tom Palven » Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:21 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:30 am
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: So....TP is talking about two different situation that both involve Russia.
He was "giving his evidence" about the USA in Syria. He doesn't know the difference between Ukraine and Syria. :lol: :lol:
:lol: :lol:

SYRIA
Syria.jpg

CRIMEA
Crimea.jpg

If pretending that you have a problem with reading comprehension is the best you can do, "Mr. Ellard", sir, it's sad.

Very sad. :(
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:33 am

Tom Palven wrote: You want US troops in Syria, make a case for it.
Matthew Ellard wrote: Easy. To work with the Syrians, Kurds and Russians to defeat ISIS in Syria before they spread back out again.
"Trump and Putin 'agree to defeat IS in Syria"
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-41953110
Tom Palven tries to change the subject and wrote: Despite US deep state efforts in agitating Ukrainian fascists, it has failed to deprive Russia of it's long-held Crimean port and military base,
1) The Crimea isn't in Syria
2) The USA didn't invade Ukraine or Russia
Tom Palven wrote: If pretending that you have a problem with reading comprehension is the best you can do, "Mr. Ellard", sir, it's sad.
Why are you so stupid? :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: The Associated Press

Post by JO 753 » Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:53 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:28 pm
JO 753 wrote: It woud be a grim world if the downtrodden didnt even hav the illusion uv an American hero to rescue them. :(
This is a bit silly. The UK, France and other western countries are also in Syria. It is American citizens who think that only America is there because they only read American media. :D
Sorry, but I ment that in jeneral, not spesificly for Syria.

Maybe it iz my biased soursez, but I hav the impression that the frst thing that kumz to the mindz uv the weak & oppressed in the world iz America, both az a plase to escape to and armoured soldierz festooned with the latest weponz showing up to save them from their despotic overlordz.

And az a practical matter, that 750,000,000,000$ we spend every yir shoud hav sum value to the rest uv the world. If we arent at least keeping the bad guyz reined in, its just a waste.

And in my opinion, we arent doing nearly enuf to justify it.
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Re: The Associated Press

Post by OlegTheBatty » Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:16 pm

JO 753 wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:53 am
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:28 pm
JO 753 wrote: It woud be a grim world if the downtrodden didnt even hav the illusion uv an American hero to rescue them. :(
This is a bit silly. The UK, France and other western countries are also in Syria. It is American citizens who think that only America is there because they only read American media. :D
Sorry, but I ment that in jeneral, not spesificly for Syria.

Maybe it iz my biased soursez, but I hav the impression that the frst thing that kumz to the mindz uv the weak & oppressed in the world iz America,
America almost always sides with the oppressor to suppress those downtrodden. America is not perceived as a hero very much outside the US borders.
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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Tom Palven » Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:29 pm

USA Today columnist suggests a bold break with the past, and a break with Lindsey Graham and The Associated Press:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/ ... 645055002/
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Re: The Associated Press

Post by OlegTheBatty » Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:07 pm

A short history of US involvement in Syria.

I agree with Tom . . . this was a boondoggle from the get go. Where I disagree is the opinion that getting out is simply a matter of recalling the troops. It's gone too far for that.
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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Tom Palven » Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:19 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:07 pm
A short history of US involvement in Syria.

I agree with Tom . . . this was a boondoggle from the get go. Where I disagree is the opinion that getting out is simply a matter of recalling the troops. It's gone too far for that.
What is their alleged function there now, if not to agitate against and topple Assad?

The usual plea of invaders is that they are there "to save lives and restore order," but it's doubtful that even Lindsey Graham or Nancy Pelosi could say that with a straight face.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: The Associated Press

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:48 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:07 pm
A short history of US involvement in Syria.

I agree with Tom . . . this was a boondoggle from the get go. Where I disagree is the opinion that getting out is simply a matter of recalling the troops. It's gone too far for that.
Thats a totally corrupt and bankrupt sentitment. ...........and like Bankrupt individuals: they never admit the boondoggle and always honestly say and think: "all we needed was a little bit more money...." And in the military arena: "...its gone too far to just remove our troops."

Thats what was said in Vietnam for 10 years.................until in about 3 days.......thats exactly what we did............ha, ha: Claimed VICTORY: and went home.

The troops flew in...........................they can fly out. Stop the BS.
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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:38 pm

Tom Palven wrote:What is their alleged function there now, if not to agitate against and topple Assad?
For the third time........

1) To destroy ISIS before they spread back to Iraq, and other countries, as agreed by Trump and Putin (although Trump has reneged with his withdrawal)

2) To protect the former USA allies, the Kurds, against Turkey, who the USA armed and are now negotiating with Russia & Syria. ( This may mean Syria offering a free Kurdish state on the Syrian Turkish border based on ethnic lines)

3) To protect the Syrians that the Western allies convinced to fight Assad, until Russia can enforce a negotiated amnesty on Assad, for their protection.


Don't you read normal newspapers?

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Re: The Associated Press

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:54 pm

If Assad is not working with ISIS........he ain't working that hard against them. To the degree that is true, or close enough, the list of three above all amount to "agitating against Assad."

I think we stay in Syria for a much more simple basic reason: inertia........and lack of imagination. No "driving" ideaology to guide our foreign adventures....so once we stumble in, intending to walk/fly out is just unexplored command territory. You make rank by how many troops you kill, not how many countries you leave.

Its stupid old people sending stupid young people to fight wars they never would themselves.
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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:56 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote: this was a boondoggle from the get go. Where I disagree is the opinion that getting out is simply a matter of recalling the troops. It's gone too far for that.
I agree. The western nations walked into Syria thinking it would collapse in the same way as Hitler claimed Russia would collapse when he launched Barbarossa. A negotiated withdrawal to protect the Kurds and Free Syrian army, is required, however I think this should be done through the UN, with a secondary plan to continue to eliminate ISIS.

On an interesting note, Israel tried to bring the USA back in, by launching missiles against Iranian military assets in Syria. This backfired because older Russian supplied anti-missiles shot down most of the Israeli missiles. That
means the new Russian 300 system would be even more effective and Israel has worked out its missiles aren't "up to scratch" anymore, and a war against Iran would also end in a disaster.
:D

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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:59 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist post wrote:If Assad is not working with ISIS........he ain't working that hard against them.
Syria doesn't have missiles and is relying on Russia. Syrian ground troops do the mopping up.

Russia launches attacks on ISIL in Syria

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Re: The Associated Press

Post by JO 753 » Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:29 am

OlegTheBatty wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:16 pm
America almost always sides with the oppressor to suppress those downtrodden. America is not perceived as a hero very much outside the US borders.
Seemz to be the case after WW2. Even in Bosnia thingz went bad with the contractorz teaming up with local mobsterz and the US & UN partisipating in taking advantaj.
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Re: The Associated Press

Post by landrew » Sun Jan 27, 2019 6:20 pm

Most countries engage in conspiracies against their neighbors. Just as it was back on the schoolyard.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Tom Palven » Tue Jan 29, 2019 3:22 pm

landrew wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 6:20 pm
Most countries engage in conspiracies against their neighbors. Just as it was back on the schoolyard.
Can it be said that the US regime is conspiring against the democratically-elected government of Venezuela?
https://original.antiwar.com/buchanan/2 ... is-plan-b/

According to Republican Pat Buchanan:

"Guiado’s constitutional claim to the presidency of Venezuela was a scheme cooked up in collusion with Washington, made in the USA, with Secretary of State Pompeo, John Bolton and Sen. Marco Rubio signing on, and President Trump signing off. This was Plan A."
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
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Re: The Associated Press

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Jan 29, 2019 3:36 pm

Palven: does your link describe a conspiracy?
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
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Tom Palven
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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Tom Palven » Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:44 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 3:36 pm
Palven: does your link describe a conspiracy?
Doesn't "a scheme cooked up in collusion with Washington" imply a conspiracy, bobbo?
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: The Associated Press

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:04 pm

OK..........you made me re-read/word search. The top 90% of the article is about the world taking sides openly for the reasons given. The collusion stated at the very end is just a way to slam the situation without providing any substance at all. Its "as if" Muduro isn't a factor at all..........which isn't true. A collusion or about anything else is better than the 10 year slide into Hell the Venezuelans have experienced.
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

Tom Palven
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Re: The Associated Press

Post by Tom Palven » Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:20 pm

If you don't feel a little uneasy siding with Trump, Pompeo, Bolton, Rubio, convicted liar Elliot Abrams, and "Ellard," you must be a good, God-fearing, patriotic neocon.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire