Atheists are idiots

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Re: Atheists are idiots

Post by OlegTheBatty » Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:34 pm

gebobs wrote:
OlegTheBatty wrote:Consciousness can influence evolution, albeit indirectly. When an organism chooses to move into a new environment, it can impact the alleles which are selected for.
You might ass well say that consciousness influences the orbit of the moon. When I moved from Buffalo to Atlanta, that changed the center of gravity of the Earth and thus the orbit of the moon.
That's a silly response.

While the effect of conscious decisions on evolution is small, it is observable and measureable.


The effect of consciousness itself may be collosal, once a self-aware species gets a sufficient grasp of genetic engineering.
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Re: Atheists are idiots

Post by gebobs » Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:49 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:
That's a silly response.

While the effect of conscious decisions on evolution is small, it is observable and measureable.

The effect of consciousness itself may be collosal, once a self-aware species gets a sufficient grasp of genetic engineering.
Indeed. I was not aware of that. Do you have some examples of that being observable and measurable.

Of course, humans have been selectively breeding species for millenia. That's been the case since the dawn of agriculture. Humans have consciously selected various traits and have changed the genotype and phenotypes of countless species. If that was the claim, I would agree it would be silly to deny. But that was not the claim.

Shall we revisit? "Conscious experience has a huge rollin (sic) Evolution. Pain and Pleasure (Conscious experiences) have influenced Evolution from the first time a Neuron fired in the most primitive organism."
Last edited by gebobs on Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Atheists are idiots

Post by gebobs » Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:01 pm

Only Populations Evolve
Individual adaptations denote mutations, not a species' evolution

https://www.thoughtco.com/only-populati ... ve-1224608

One common misconception about evolution is the idea that individuals can evolve, but they can only accumulate adaptations that help them survive in an environment. While it is possible for these individuals in a species to mutate and have changed made to their DNA, evolution is a term specifically defined by the change in DNA of the majority of a population.

In other words, mutations or adaptations do not equal evolution. There are no species alive today that have individuals that live long enough to see all of the evolution happen to its species—a new species may diverge from an existing species’ lineage, but this was a build up of new traits over a long period of time and did not happen instantaneously.

So if individuals cannot evolve on their own, how then does evolution occur? Populations evolve through a process known as natural selection which allows individuals with beneficial traits for survival to breeding with other individuals who share those traits, eventually leading to offspring who only exhibit those superior traits.

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Re: Atheists are idiots

Post by gebobs » Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:11 pm

Consider dogs. It is hypothesized that dogs evolved from wolves because a certain allele in their genotype tempered their natural fear of humans allowing them to come closer to settlements and scavenge the garbage heaps for food.

The Lamarkians and conscious evolvers here would say, "So there was a certain dog who had the courage to go first and thus the phenotype resulted in the change in genotype. Evolution! Tada!"

But that's not how it works. What you had, most certainly, was a population of wolves with varying genotypes which expressed themselves in various phenotypes. Some were faster, some were darker, some were stronger. And throughout the population, there was variation in the allele that expresses itself in the phenotype as a natural fear of humans. Some were more fearful, others less. Thus it was these ones that were less fearful that approached the settlement heaps and reaped the reward of a more stable supply of food and an eventual interspecific relationship that has since become humans and dogs.

It was the variation in genotype within the population that was the catalyst for the change in behavior, not the other way around.
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Re: Atheists are idiots

Post by Lance Kennedy » Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:18 pm

That particular hypothesis for how dogs evolved is, IMHO, total garbage. The first wolf to become unafraid enough to approach a human gets a club on the head. Natural selection would work to make them more, not less, afraid.

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Re: Atheists are idiots

Post by gebobs » Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:28 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:That particular hypothesis for how dogs evolved is, IMHO, total garbage. The first wolf to become unafraid enough to approach a human gets a club on the head. Natural selection would work to make them more, not less, afraid.
I didn't say they would immediately evolve to be so completely unafraid of humans that they would get close enough to get a club to the head. The trash heaps weren't in the center of the villages any more than our garbage dumps are in the center of cities. They are on the periphery.

Again, there would be a variation in the genotype. Those wolves with greater expression of fear would be at the mercy of the availability of their prey and thus would have selective pressures against them. Those wolves that had no fear at all and tried to nuzzle up to Gronk and Gronkella in their tent would get the club and their genotype eliminated from the gene pool. But those that had just the right balance to scavenge on the periphery would be selectively advantaged to the other two groups.

And this has been artificially replicated with foxes by Soviet scientist Dmitry Belyaev. He was able to select foxes without fear of humans in as few as 15 generations or so. Not only that, but the tame foxes exhibited many of the phenotypical expressions that also characterize dogs: floppy ears, adult tail wagging, barking rather than howling...and other characteristics that are typical of juvenile wolves and foxes, not adults.

http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20160912 ... -the-world
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Re: Atheists are idiots

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:27 pm

First semester biology, I see.
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Re: Atheists are idiots

Post by gebobs » Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:36 pm

It’s hardly intuitive. Lamarck was a smart guy. He had it bass ackwards though.

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Re: Atheists are idiots

Post by Subaru7 » Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:27 pm

'
God is so great that He doesn't even need to exist.
.

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Re: Atheists are idiots

Post by Aztexan » Thu Jun 28, 2018 12:13 am

If you look at god as protagonist or antagonist, as a character, he's very childlike and needs further development. Lacks substance and is very predictable.
I give god a D minus.
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Re: Atheists are idiots

Post by Lance Kennedy » Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:01 am

On wolves.

Partial evolution to provide the courage to scavenge the periphery does NOT explain how they became dogs.

I am quite familiar with Belyaev's work. It does not suggest wolves becoming dogs in the way you suggest. A more intimate relationship must exist FIRST. I can suggest a much more likely mechanism, if you wish. But the 'scavenge the periphery' idea is quite unrealistic.

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Re: Atheists are idiots

Post by gebobs » Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:56 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:On wolves.

Partial evolution to provide the courage to scavenge the periphery does NOT explain how they became dogs.

I am quite familiar with Belyaev's work. It does not suggest wolves becoming dogs in the way you suggest. A more intimate relationship must exist FIRST. I can suggest a much more likely mechanism, if you wish. But the 'scavenge the periphery' idea is quite unrealistic.
Obviously, none of us were there. You don’t need to take it as literal fact. It was meant to illustrate that behavior or consciousness do not drive mutation let alone evolution. Quite the opposite. Genetic variation as expressed in the population phenotypical expression, physical traits and behaviors, does. Belyaev’s work, heck all studies in evolution - fruit flies, beans, bacteria - confirm that. This was the revolutionary point of The Origin of Species that Darwin had inkling of and that has been honed by the the likes of Gould, Mendel, Dobzhanski, et al. Lamarck and Lysenko were wrong.

If anyone here thinks that behavior drives evolution, I’d have to say it surprises me. I would have thought folks on a skeptics forum would be a bit more knowledgeable on evolutionary theory than the man on the street. Seems not to be the case,

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Re: Atheists are idiots

Post by Lance Kennedy » Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:31 am

In other words, gebobs, you do not know.

On behaviour driving evolution.
Many things drive evolution. Human behaviour drives the evolution of many other organisms. The behaviour of predators drives the evolution of their prey. Ditto competitors. Human behaviour to a degree even drives human evolution. Why have our females developed such large breasts, made up mostly of non functional connective tissue ? Because they attract males. Human male behaviour resulting in human female evolution.

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Re: Atheists are idiots

Post by Poodle » Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:15 am

Evolution can be very rapid. Since I was 14 I've grown another foot.
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(Oh - and you need the old measurement system genes to get it).

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Re: Atheists are idiots

Post by gebobs » Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:42 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:Human behaviour drives the evolution of many other organisms. The behaviour of predators drives the evolution of their prey. Ditto competitors.
Sure. Natural selection in its many incarnations. And in the last 10,000 years, artificial selection by humans. Most recently, genetic engineering. But that is not what SteveKlimko is talking about as far as I can tell.

"Conscious experience has a huge rollin (sic) Evolution. Pain and Pleasure (Conscious experiences) have influenced Evolution from the first time a Neuron fired in the most primitive organism. This is a different thing than simple Natural Selection. The Conscious influence is outside the realm of basic Physics."

Seems to me he is talking about something more metaphysical than predator/prey or peacock plumage.

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Re: Atheists are idiots

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:03 pm

I support gebobs, regardless of where his head is located. As usual, too many people, "even skeptics", don't quite have Darwinian Evolution correctly.

Just a quick correction gebobs since you did reference it:
SteveKlinko wrote:

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Conscious experience has a huge rollin Evolution......
I would never say anything so silly. It is a typo by Klinko, easy to do, I suspect honest error.

Point by point as my memory serves: random order.

YES..evolution describes a population. NOT an individual.....and that population contains genetic variation. How??? BY THE INDIVIDUALS within it. I know: too tricky.

Raise your hand: who here does not agree dogs evolved from wolves?

I have always read it was the "less fearful wolves" who got habituated to living/scavenging close to humans that initiated this branch. But giving it a second thought, I see no reason it could not have been a more adventurous/curious hooman throwing meat at wolves to see how close they would come so they could be clubbed? Why not? And one got clubbed and turned out to be preggers and not quite dead so her pups were born and kept as an experiment by that early Darwin. The friendly pups were kept and the one's who bit were roasted. Lather and repeat. Just a bit of good luck that wolf pups could be socialized they way they do. Not totally sure, but the same trick with hyenas does not work?.....or....from the few shows I have seen on them....why not? And yes....the famous case with foxes.

Hoomans like turning wild things into pets. Lance: not every hooman is going to club a friendly wolf every time.....unlike yourself, there is variation in hoomans too.

Lance: care to name what the other "drivers" of evolution are? Being the word smith you are, do you mean evolution is driven by anything other than SELECTION? What is a driver of evolution???? In common english, I think it is fair to call variation within a species a "driver" of evolution. Darwin didn't use it that way though. But who is he? He only wrote the book.........a long time ago.

Conscious: Intentionally conceived

not to be confused with:

sentience: The readiness to perceive sensations; elementary or undifferentiated consciousness

Conscious evolution evolved in the main only with hoomans. Early hoomans...of course in some minor way. Maybe some other species in even more minor ways. Like everything, it is definitional.

GMO: we are right at the cusp of managing our own evolution. I don't think it will end well.
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Re: Atheists are idiots

Post by gebobs » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:29 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:I would never say anything so silly. It is a typo by Klinko, easy to do, I suspect honest error.
Yes, I noticed that.
I have always read it was the "less fearful wolves" who got habituated to living/scavenging close to humans that initiated this branch. But giving it a second thought, I see no reason it could not have been a more adventurous/curious hooman throwing meat at wolves to see how close they would come so they could be clubbed? Why not? And one got clubbed and turned out to be preggers and not quite dead so her pups were born and kept as an experiment by that early Darwin. The friendly pups were kept and the one's who bit were roasted. Lather and repeat. Just a bit of good luck that wolf pups could be socialized they way they do. Not totally sure, but the same trick with hyenas does not work?.....or....from the few shows I have seen on them....why not? And yes....the famous case with foxes.
Sure we can all imagine scenarios. But the point remains that variation is the starting point. In the scenario, you have a population of wolves. Among the population, there is variation in their instinctual fear of humans. That variation is going to, in turn, provoke a variation in behaviors resulting in some wolves being clubbed, some of them preggers, some who survive to give birth. Among this subset of unfortunate preggers wolves with sore noggins, there will be variation of that allele controlling instinctual fear. It will be a one-tailed distribution, bounded on the more populous side by less fearful preggers wolves with headaches and the tail being more fearful preggers wolves with headaches (see below). The offspring of all these wolves will likewise have variation with some inheritance from mummy and some from daddy. All the while, the cruel hand of selection, hooman or otherwise, will be crafting the genome of the population.

Image
GMO: we are right at the cusp of managing our own evolution. I don't think it will end well.
Indeed. And not just because of genetic modification. We hoomans are due for a major correction. We have prospered for millenia with relatively unchecked ability for growth. Our modern standard of living depends on it. We depend on continually increasing GDP. Any decrease is frowned on. a few quarters of it time to be concerned. Six or more and panic sets in. It's basically a huge Ponzi scheme. Eventually, it's going to collapse.

And the engine for much of the expansion is the unmitigated consumption of limited resources. We are basically at the limit of arable land and that has come at a big price too. Our oceans are being fished out.

And, most notably, economic expansion is accomplished with cheap energy in the form of ancient sequestered carbon. It's cheap only inasmuch as we ignore the hidden costs that it incurs. For one thing, the global network of oil is protected by the huge militaries of the G7 and its allies. If even that was figured into the price of a gallon of fuel, it would be significantly more expensive to drive our cars.

Forget about the environmental costs. That would be a boondoggle to figure out. If we ever figured even a fraction of it into the cost of fuel, solar would be instantly more feasible. But it won't ever come to that. We are going to liberate every last bit of carbon we can. Atmospheric PPM is going to break 600 within the lifetime of some of us. Within the next few centuries, there are going to be major dislocations as the 50% or so of us that live within 100 km of a coastline will be under pressure to relocate. Glaciers will be gone so those that depend on spring melt for agriculture will be out of luck. Coral reefs will be dead as the oceans acidify. Siberia and Alaska tundra will melt releasing petatonnes of methane creating a massive warming feedback. The Arctic ice will recede leading to decreased albedo at the pole, creating another warming feedback.

Yeah, we're {!#%@}. Or rather our children's children will be {!#%@}. Surely.

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Re: Atheists are idiots

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:19 pm

gebobs: I can count the ways you have offended Lance. It will be amusing to see his come back. aka: He will entrench his views but not give an alternative to how wolves got themselves domesticated into dogs. Likewise: no such thing as limited resources...science will find the alternatives…"Nothing to Worry About....you....You....YOU PESSIMIST you."

Yeah, should be fun.

You've gone a bit off topic though from the core of genetics to other catastrophes we are busy ignoring. for my education, what is the difference in the place used of using "alleles" rather than genes or dna? they are all close and on the issue of being selected for, aren't they mostly interchangeable?
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Re: Atheists are idiots

Post by OlegTheBatty » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:55 pm

gebobs wrote:
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:I would never say anything so silly. It is a typo by Klinko, easy to do, I suspect honest error.
Yes, I noticed that.
I have always read it was the "less fearful wolves" who got habituated to living/scavenging close to humans that initiated this branch. But giving it a second thought, I see no reason it could not have been a more adventurous/curious hooman throwing meat at wolves to see how close they would come so they could be clubbed? Why not? And one got clubbed and turned out to be preggers and not quite dead so her pups were born and kept as an experiment by that early Darwin. The friendly pups were kept and the one's who bit were roasted. Lather and repeat. Just a bit of good luck that wolf pups could be socialized they way they do. Not totally sure, but the same trick with hyenas does not work?.....or....from the few shows I have seen on them....why not? And yes....the famous case with foxes.
Sure we can all imagine scenarios. But the point remains that variation is the starting point. In the scenario, you have a population of wolves. Among the population, there is variation in their instinctual fear of humans. That variation is going to, in turn, provoke a variation in behaviors resulting in some wolves being clubbed, some of them preggers, some who survive to give birth. Among this subset of unfortunate preggers wolves with sore noggins, there will be variation of that allele controlling instinctual fear. It will be a one-tailed distribution, bounded on the more populous side by less fearful preggers wolves with headaches and the tail being more fearful preggers wolves with headaches (see below). The offspring of all these wolves will likewise have variation with some inheritance from mummy and some from daddy. All the while, the cruel hand of selection, hooman or otherwise, will be crafting the genome of the population.

Image
GMO: we are right at the cusp of managing our own evolution. I don't think it will end well.
Indeed. And not just because of genetic modification. We hoomans are due for a major correction. We have prospered for millenia with relatively unchecked ability for growth. Our modern standard of living depends on it. We depend on continually increasing GDP. Any decrease is frowned on. a few quarters of it time to be concerned. Six or more and panic sets in. It's basically a huge Ponzi scheme. Eventually, it's going to collapse.

And the engine for much of the expansion is the unmitigated consumption of limited resources. We are basically at the limit of arable land and that has come at a big price too. Our oceans are being fished out.

And, most notably, economic expansion is accomplished with cheap energy in the form of ancient sequestered carbon. It's cheap only inasmuch as we ignore the hidden costs that it incurs. For one thing, the global network of oil is protected by the huge militaries of the G7 and its allies. If even that was figured into the price of a gallon of fuel, it would be significantly more expensive to drive our cars.

Forget about the environmental costs. That would be a boondoggle to figure out. If we ever figured even a fraction of it into the cost of fuel, solar would be instantly more feasible. But it won't ever come to that. We are going to liberate every last bit of carbon we can. Atmospheric PPM is going to break 600 within the lifetime of some of us. Within the next few centuries, there are going to be major dislocations as the 50% or so of us that live within 100 km of a coastline will be under pressure to relocate. Glaciers will be gone so those that depend on spring melt for agriculture will be out of luck. Coral reefs will be dead as the oceans acidify. Siberia and Alaska tundra will melt releasing petatonnes of methane creating a massive warming feedback. The Arctic ice will recede leading to decreased albedo at the pole, creating another warming feedback.

Yeah, we're {!#%@}. Or rather our children's children will be {!#%@}. Surely.
Don't forget all that fertilizer run-off (from the modern practices needed to feed 7+ billion people) creating oceanic dead zones.


The Permian die-off allowed dinosaurs, pterosaurs and mammals to evolve and flourish.
The Cretaceous die-off allowed mammals to diversify beyond nocturnal scavengers and insectivores.
The Anthropogenic die-off will allow . . . ?
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Re: Atheists are idiots

Post by gebobs » Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:07 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:for my education, what is the difference in the place used of using "alleles" rather than genes or dna? they are all close and on the issue of being selected for, aren't they mostly interchangeable?
Think of one's DNA as a book. The amino pairs are letters and punctuation. Genes are sentences mad of these letters and punctuation. The sentences are collected into paragraphs we call chromosomes. The different ways that sentences appear in various editions are the alleles. The genome is the entire collection of editions for that book.

It's not a great metaphor, but it's the first one I could come up with.

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Re: Atheists are idiots

Post by OlegTheBatty » Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:22 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:. for my education, what is the difference in the place used of using "alleles" rather than genes or dna? they are all close and on the issue of being selected for, aren't they mostly interchangeable?
A simple example: malaria/sickle cell anemia

The gene codifies for malaria resistance. A mutation in the gene does not (or not as well). Both variations can exist in the same organism, one from each parent. These are called alleles. If more people die of malaria than sickle cell anemia, the gene is selected for.


In a malaria rich environment, the gene is selected for, and increases in prevalence in the population. Where malaria is not present, the gene is not selected for, and wherever the two mutated alleles come together, sickle cell anemia results and often kills the person before they reproduce. The gene declines in the population.

This measure of allele prevalence has been tracked for decades in Africa, Brazil and the US.
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Re: Atheists are idiots

Post by gebobs » Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:26 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:
Don't forget all that fertilizer run-off (from the modern practices needed to feed 7+ billion people) creating oceanic dead zones.
Absolutely.
The Permian die-off allowed dinosaurs, pterosaurs and mammals to evolve and flourish.
The Cretaceous die-off allowed mammals to diversify beyond nocturnal scavengers and insectivores.
The Anthropogenic die-off will allow . . . ?
Remains to be seen, but we are going to take much of life with us. There are more people living in a podunk town like Chattanooga TN than there are giraffes in Africa or tigers in India. Wildlife is going to be obliterated by the end of the century. There will still be cows and chickens, but there will be no elephants, rhinos, or orangs left in the wild. None. Zero. Zip. Nada.

And I can't help but wonder at the dynamic our success has wrought. On the one hand, we have eradicated some of history's worst diseases. Malaria, which has killed more people than any other single pathogen, is probably going to be eradicated. Others are going if not gone (despite the best efforts of Andrew Wakefield and Jenny MccCarthy): smallpox, polio, measles, mumps, rubella, river blindness (thank you Jimmy Carter).

It's great news. And it's a death knell. People, even the poorest, are living longer and consuming more resources.

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Re: Atheists are idiots

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:20 pm

1.
In a malaria rich environment, the gene is selected for, and increases in prevalence in the population.

2. In a malaria rich environment, the dna is selected for, and increases in prevalence in the population.


3. In a malaria rich environment, the allele is selected for, and increases in prevalence in the population.


These are all saying the same thing? ….or close enough to be understood... so what should be recognized to make the most (scientifically?) correct statement??

Seems to me, previous to this thread, I understood allele to be the way a gene was "presented" or active in the environment. But its still genes and dna??? I can make some grammar guesses....but won't cloud the issue.
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Re: Atheists are idiots

Post by Poodle » Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:25 pm

I thought Allele was a South American dictator.

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Re: Atheists are idiots

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:36 pm

Yes, ironically he was a medical doctor by training and probably studied malaria? I think his nickname was "Little Allele".
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Re: Atheists are idiots

Post by Lance Kennedy » Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:13 pm

Bobbo got one point right. It is likely to be wolf cubs taken as pets that were the beginning of dogs. As I said before, an intimate relationship (between wolf and human ) has to exist FIRST. The idea that wild wolves evolved tameness scavenging around human communities is just silly. I doubt it was a pregnant wolf hit on the head, though. More likely a group of humans drove off wolves away from their den and a young girl saw the cubs.

"Oh, they are so cute! I want one. "

An indulgent father let her have one, and history changed. The cub grew up among humans, and proved itself valuable (hunting and guarding). Due to this value, the human tribe then kept wolves as pets, helpers and companions. The change to dogs would then be inevitable. Any aggressive wolf would be killed, and the new wolf generations within the tribe would be descended from the least aggressive ones. Belyaev's work shows how this happens.

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Re: Atheists are idiots

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:38 pm

Maybe I'm a little late with this, but when I hear of "rapid evolution", my first impression is that of mutating on the hoof.

You know, like in one of those old science fiction stories set a few years after the A-bomb has obliterated civilization. ;)
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Re: Atheists are idiots

Post by TJrandom » Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:59 pm

gebobs wrote: ... When I moved from Buffalo to Atlanta, that changed the center of gravity of the Earth and thus the orbit of the moon. ...
You must be a truly massive individual... ;)

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Re: Atheists are idiots

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:43 pm

TJrandom wrote:
gebobs wrote: ... When I moved from Buffalo to Atlanta, that changed the center of gravity of the Earth and thus the orbit of the moon. ...
You must be a truly massive individual... ;)
Sorry if this is a bit off topic, but you just reminded me of something.

You see, I've been trying to lose weight, but I need a little help with the physics of the thing.

When you are riding up an escalator do you gain weight (due to acceleration), or lose weight (due to increased altitude)? Do coriolis forces affect you enough that it might be one answer facing east, and the other answer facing west?

Thank you. :pr:
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Re: Atheists are idiots

Post by Lance Kennedy » Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:18 am

Go to the moon. You lose five sixths of your weight. Pity about the mass.

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Re: Atheists are idiots

Post by TJrandom » Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:32 am

Abdul Alhazred wrote: ,,, Do coriolis forces affect you enough that it might be one answer facing east, and the other answer facing west? ...
But at the equator... wouldn`t the effect cancel out no matter which way you faced? But I do suspect you might lose weight by walking either south, or north, with that loss increasing the further you walked. :roll:

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Re: Atheists are idiots

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:40 am

What I would especially like about living at the equator --

The water goes straight down the drain without dilly dallying around in circles one way or the other. :mrgreen:
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Re: Atheists are idiots

Post by TJrandom » Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:47 am

Abdul Alhazred wrote:What I would especially like about living at the equator --

The water goes straight down the drain without dilly dallying around in circles one way or the other. :mrgreen:
Yes, but I suspect that it still `grips` the inside wall of the pipe, instead of flowing through as a `plug`...

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Re: Atheists are idiots

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Jun 30, 2018 7:32 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
TJrandom wrote:
gebobs wrote: ... When I moved from Buffalo to Atlanta, that changed the center of gravity of the Earth and thus the orbit of the moon. ...
You must be a truly massive individual... ;)
Sorry if this is a bit off topic, but you just reminded me of something.

You see, I've been trying to lose weight, but I need a little help with the physics of the thing.

When you are riding up an escalator do you gain weight (due to acceleration), or lose weight (due to increased altitude)? Do coriolis forces affect you enough that it might be one answer facing east, and the other answer facing west?

Thank you. :pr:
Reminds me of a story about a guy who asked a sorcerer for a charm that would make him lose weight. For the rest of his life he had to carry lead weights in his pockets to stay on the ground.
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Re: Atheists are idiots

Post by Gord » Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:45 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:When you are riding up an escalator do you gain weight (due to acceleration), or lose weight (due to increased altitude)? Do coriolis forces affect you enough that it might be one answer facing east, and the other answer facing west?
First you gain weight as you accelerate, but then you achieve a constant speed -- escalators don't constantly accelerate you, or you'd be flying by the time you reached the top -- so your weight goes back down. Then as you gain altitude, you lose weight -- but just how high is this escalator?

Coriolis forces don't come into play because they aren't real. The Earth is flat, remember!
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Re: Atheists are idiots

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:50 pm

I'm just guessing: doesn't Coriolis act perpendicularly to gravity? Ergo, no effect. Hmmm...might it have an effect on mass or momentum, but not weight?

I tried to watch the televised "Basic Physics" classes taught at Yale. I am totally lost right after: "As we left off from last week...."

I did last 15 minutes on thermodynamics. Thats my record.
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Re: Atheists are idiots

Post by placid » Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:57 pm

SteveKlinko wrote: I know Science can not deal with Consciousness, so they will always ignore it in their analysis. Scientists are quite literally ignorant of Conscious Phenomenon. It is completely clear that Conscious Pain and Pleasure (plus the myriad of other Conscious experiences) will influence the actions of simple as well as complicated organisms. It is the action of individual organisms that produces the overall effect of Natural Selection and Evolution. Maybe Evolution is not even possible without the Conscious aspect. Lets just say that the end product of Evolution would probably at least be a lot different without a Conscious aspect being involved.
Consciousness is not a thing that can be known about, and yet it is the wellspring and originator of all knowledge...knowledge is thought, and thoughts are things, and only things can be known, and that which is known cannot know anything, and science doesn't like that idea, because science identifies the one who measures all things as a tangible thing when it's not, the measurer of all things is not a thing, and science doesn't like that, what on earth can it do with ''no thing'' or that which is ''not-a-thing'' ? it has no knowledge of what consciousness is at all because it is unavailable in a tangible sense, and yet here it is self shining without doubt or error as every tangible sensation and thought, and knowing.


Consciousness does not have to know ..to be what it is- it is the knowing.Here it is seen by no one that there is no one to ask the question of what consciousness is and that consciousness is all there is, was and ever will be, and that it is indestructable. It's the only power there is in operation. In other words, no thing is the only power there is, and that is power indeed. No thing is in power, while the human mind hates the idea of no thing in power, that making the human feel powerless and redundant, the ego dislikes that idea. But for the wise, it's very liberating and in a strange way, empowering. And that is just about the crux of all arguments and disagreements that is the unavoidable scenario of the world of duality, aka the identified mind, the identified mind that demands to take centre stage, it wants to be the knower, never quite knowing that the mind is already known, and there is no need to put an extra head on this...in the form of an illusory other / knower. The mind putting an extra head on this is setting the scene for a never-ending dual of wits, a boxing match of light and shadow.. even though it's just all the play of the one light disguised as shadow.

No thing has a mind. The mind IS no thing. This is irrefutable.

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Re: Atheists are idiots

Post by Poodle » Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:57 pm

It's been extremely hot in the UK for a few days now.

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Re: Atheists are idiots

Post by Aztexan » Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:01 pm

Heat is no thing and that is empowering because it exists not in your mind but through awareness of not being at all.
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Re: Atheists are idiots

Post by Poodle » Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:38 pm

placid wrote:No thing has a mind. The mind IS no thing. This is irrefutable.
I refute that.