Earliest recorded UFO sightings

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Ellie O Really
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Earliest recorded UFO sightings

Post by Ellie O Really » Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:22 am

I have tried to make it through an entire episode of the TV show Ancient Aliens without turning channels in disgust at its outlandishness, but I’ve always failed. (It disappoints me to realize I’m not as open-minded as I once thought I was.) Ancient Aliens aside, I do wonder if there are authenticated reports of strange aerial phenomena occurring in earlier – including ancient – times in various parts of the world.

Through a Google search, I learned that in his book, Passport to Magonia, Jacques Vallee discusses such sightings. I’ve never read the book, but I’m curious about it, so I’m going to buy it. Have any of you read it? To those who have, is much of it woo?

Here’s a link to a two-part interview with Jacques Vallee that I found interesting:

http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc839.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Edited to add that what follows isn't an excerpt from the interview. It's me on a rant. :|

I don’t believe ET is zipping around out there observing us, or that some form of multi-dimensional consciousness controls our thoughts. I don’t with a whisk of my hand discount the possibility of either idea, but I certainly look askance at them. Is ET spying on us? Are we, as Terence McKenna once said, “part of a symbiotic relationship with something which disguises itself as an extra-terrestrial invasion so as not to alarm us”? To the UFO community I would say this: Present irrefutable evidence that your claims are true. Bring us an alien or some other physical evidence supporting your claims. Oh, and with regard to “UFOs are windows to other dimensions” hypotheses and their ilk, please stop pulling wacky-sounding notions out of your buttocks and presenting them as revelations. Show us the evidence for them.

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Re: Earliest recorded UFO sightings

Post by surrounded » Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:13 am

I wonder about this subject also, kind of a what came first, the chicken or the egg question. People have seen strange things in the sky since there have been people.

My interest is with the now standardised flying saucers and various alian forms. I know there were many saucers in 1950s movies, (I love Ed Wood) Plan 9 and such then the Betty and Barney Hill story.... where did it start? Jules Vern maybe?

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Re: Earliest recorded UFO sightings

Post by Gord » Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:07 am

Before aliens, it was blimps. Before blimps, it was fairies and witches. People have always seen what their culture would lead them to see.

In fact, since this was pointed out to those in the "paranormal community", they've picked it up themselves and now have websites about it. Just google "UFOs and fairies" and you'll find a few.
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Re: Earliest recorded UFO sightings

Post by Lance Kennedy » Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:16 am

It is about selective interpretation.

There are lots of stories, pictures, myths and other lies that can be reinterpreted to suggest someone, some-when, saw a light in the sky that today we might call a UFO.

Believe it if you are gullible. Disbelieve it if you are a good skeptic.

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Re: Earliest recorded UFO sightings

Post by Gord » Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:34 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:It is about selective interpretation.
Why yes, I'd love an omelette!
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
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Re: Earliest recorded UFO sightings

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:10 am

I can hear it now.

Scene 50,000 BC, some forsaken cave in Europe. Two teenager have slipped off from the gathering work and are goofing off.

"What will we do now?"

"I know, let's make random marks on this wall and confuse the {!#%@} out of people in the distant future."

"Cool. I'm going to do a fleet of space aliens landing here and changing our DNA."

"Okay, I'll do a Lady Ga-Ga album cover. When they find this they'll {!#%@} bricks."
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Re: Earliest recorded UFO sightings

Post by Bart Stewart » Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:22 pm

Well, Ezekial had his "wheel in the sky," but what does that mean? Did he eat some moldy bread that put the zap on his head? Did he see an odd atmospheric phenomenon? Did he make the whole thing up???

Ancient reports of UFOs are inconclusive because they are so open to speculation. As far as I know, nobody in ancient times ever wrote "A silvery disc-shaped craft landed and a hatch opened and two gray-colored little men with enlarged craniums walked out." But you will find poetic stuff about lights in the sky, which might mean anything.

Prior to Kenneth Arnold in 1947 there was the Phantom Airship flap of the 19th century. But these were always described as blimps, or some form of gas bag.

The first real UFO report was Kenneth Arnold in 1947. What I always like to point out about his case is that he never reported seeing anything saucer-shaped. He said the objects were crescent-shaped, and moved like saucers skimming over water. The newspaper reporters chose to call them "flying saucers." Within days of the introduction of that new buzzword, hundreds of people began to report seeing saucer-shaped objects in the sky. There's no denying the timing of what happened. It raises the obvious question - How many of reports of disc-shaped UFOs would we have had over the decades if those newspapermen at Kenneth Arnold's press conference had chosen to use the term "flying crescents?"

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Re: Earliest recorded UFO sightings

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:29 am

Utterly Foolish Objects.
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Re: Earliest recorded UFO sightings

Post by Lance Kennedy » Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:49 am

Almost right, Gawdzilla.

Utterly Foolish Observers.

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Re: Earliest recorded UFO sightings

Post by Gord » Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:13 am

Bart Stewart wrote:He said the objects were crescent-shaped, and moved like saucers skimming over water.
I think he saw birds shining oddly in the sunlight. The shine would make them unidentifiable; the skimming would be the effect of flapping; their apparent high speed would be an illusion caused by over-estimating their size and distance. (Dang; what is the name of the effect that makes a glowing object appear larger than it really is? I forget.)
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
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Re: Earliest recorded UFO sightings

Post by Bart Stewart » Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:07 pm

I know what you mean but can't place the name either. And I have always assumed Kenneth Arnold saw large migrating birds. (Wasn't he a repeat sighter? I think he had another UFO report.)

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Re: Earliest recorded UFO sightings

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:10 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:Almost right, Gawdzilla.

Utterly Foolish Observers.
:lol:
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Re: Earliest recorded UFO sightings

Post by surrounded » Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:07 am

1947 is logical, jets and rockets were new, 1952 seems to be when hollywood really went sci-fi crazy....

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Re: Earliest recorded UFO sightings

Post by Gord » Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:03 am

Bart Stewart wrote:(Wasn't he a repeat sighter? I think he had another UFO report.)
I don't think I've ever heard that. But maybe I just don't remember.

Wikipedia says he had other sightings "afterwards": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Ar ... O_sighting" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
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Re: Earliest recorded UFO sightings

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:15 pm

surrounded wrote:1947 is logical, jets and rockets were new, 1952 seems to be when hollywood really went sci-fi crazy....
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0042469/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Earliest recorded UFO sightings

Post by Pamam55 » Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:09 pm

There are thousands of pictures and texts in ancient times talking about flying objects like planes, ufos, helicopters, etc

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Re: Earliest recorded UFO sightings

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:20 pm

Pamam55 wrote:There are thousands of pictures and texts in ancient times talking about flying objects like planes, ufos, helicopters, etc
"like" being the operative word, as those pictures are subjectively interpreted by the lunatic fringe to be things that support their manias.
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Re: Earliest recorded UFO sightings

Post by Gord » Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:01 pm

Pamam55 wrote:There are thousands of pictures and texts in ancient times talking about flying objects like planes, ufos, helicopters, etc
No there aren't.
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:"like" being the operative word
Pamam55 didn't say "like". Pamam55 said "about".
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
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Re: Earliest recorded UFO sightings

Post by OlegTheBatty » Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:27 pm

Gord wrote:
Pamam55 wrote:There are thousands of pictures and texts in ancient times talking about flying objects like planes, ufos, helicopters, etc
No there aren't.
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:"like" being the operative word
Pamam55 didn't say "like". Pamam55 said "about".
Did you not notice the word between 'objects' and 'planes'?
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Re: Earliest recorded UFO sightings

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:38 pm

Pamam55 wrote:There are thousands of pictures and texts in ancient times talking about flying objects like planes, ufos, helicopters, etc
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"
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Re: Earliest recorded UFO sightings

Post by busterggi » Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:55 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:Almost right, Gawdzilla.

Utterly Foolish Observers.
Now Lance, its not foolish to observe something you can't identify, its jumping to the conclision that it can be identified as an alien spacecraft that's foolish.

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Re: Earliest recorded UFO sightings

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:19 pm

busterggi wrote:
Lance Kennedy wrote:Almost right, Gawdzilla.

Utterly Foolish Observers.
Now Lance, its not foolish to observe something you can't identify, its jumping to the conclision that it can be identified as an alien spacecraft that's foolish.
The fool observes what the wise man cannot see.
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"
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The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
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Re: Earliest recorded UFO sightings

Post by Austin Harper » Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:44 pm

By the way, how do you guys like my new clothes?
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Re: Earliest recorded UFO sightings

Post by Pamam55 » Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:31 am

Ummm there are thousands of ancient texts and descriptions of flying crafts way back when. This is not even debatable. They even show it on the History Channel lol...But I guess because an "official" authority figure hasn't come out and said it, then lo and behold it doesn't exist

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Re: Earliest recorded UFO sightings

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:55 am

Pamam55 wrote:Ummm there are thousands of ancient texts and descriptions of flying crafts way back when. This is not even debatable. They even show it on the History Channel lol...But I guess because an "official" authority figure hasn't come out and said it, then lo and behold it doesn't exist
Crap, it is debatable. You have to start with the assumption they 're talking about little space buddies and work backwards to get flying saucers out of those texts. Only a truly crippled personality with a crumpled mind would buy that nonsense.
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Re: Earliest recorded UFO sightings

Post by Gord » Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:09 am

OlegTheBatty wrote:
Gord wrote:
Pamam55 wrote:There are thousands of pictures and texts in ancient times talking about flying objects like planes, ufos, helicopters, etc
No there aren't.
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:"like" being the operative word
Pamam55 didn't say "like". Pamam55 said "about".
Did you not notice the word between 'objects' and 'planes'?
I assumed that was a spelling mistake. Pamam55 obviously meant to say "conspiracies" there.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
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Re: Earliest recorded UFO sightings

Post by Harte » Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:00 am

Pamam55 wrote:Ummm there are thousands of ancient texts and descriptions of flying crafts way back when. This is not even debatable. They even show it on the History Channel lol...But I guess because an "official" authority figure hasn't come out and said it, then lo and behold it doesn't exist
But wait.

Isn't the History Channel an "official authority" on this?

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Re: Earliest recorded UFO sightings

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:30 am

Gord wrote:
OlegTheBatty wrote:
Gord wrote:
Pamam55 wrote:There are thousands of pictures and texts in ancient times talking about flying objects like planes, ufos, helicopters, etc
No there aren't.
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:"like" being the operative word
Pamam55 didn't say "like". Pamam55 said "about".
Did you not notice the word between 'objects' and 'planes'?
I assumed that was a spelling mistake. Pamam55 obviously meant to say "conspiracies" there.
:lol:
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Re: Earliest recorded UFO sightings

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:31 am

Harte wrote:
Pamam55 wrote:Ummm there are thousands of ancient texts and descriptions of flying crafts way back when. This is not even debatable. They even show it on the History Channel lol...But I guess because an "official" authority figure hasn't come out and said it, then lo and behold it doesn't exist
But wait.

Isn't the History Channel an "official authority" on this?

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Re: Earliest recorded UFO sightings

Post by busterggi » Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:04 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
busterggi wrote:
Lance Kennedy wrote:Almost right, Gawdzilla.

Utterly Foolish Observers.
Now Lance, its not foolish to observe something you can't identify, its jumping to the conclision that it can be identified as an alien spacecraft that's foolish.
The fool observes what the wise man cannot see.
The wise man can also see those things the fool sees if he looks AND there is something to see. But each may come to his own conclusion as to what they have seen.

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Re: Earliest recorded UFO sightings

Post by busterggi » Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:05 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Harte wrote:
Pamam55 wrote:Ummm there are thousands of ancient texts and descriptions of flying crafts way back when. This is not even debatable. They even show it on the History Channel lol...But I guess because an "official" authority figure hasn't come out and said it, then lo and behold it doesn't exist
But wait.

Isn't the History Channel an "official authority" on this?

Harte
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I hit him.

I think you should have docked his pay.

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Re: Earliest recorded UFO sightings

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:43 pm

busterggi wrote:The wise man can also see those things the fool sees if he looks AND there is something to see. But each may come to his own conclusion as to what they have seen.
And the wise man will consider what is likely out of the possibilities presented by what is seen.
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Re: Earliest recorded UFO sightings

Post by Pamam55 » Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:21 pm

Anyone who thinks humans are alone in the universe is a {!#%@} blathering idiot

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Re: Earliest recorded UFO sightings

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:23 pm

Pamam55 wrote:Anyone who thinks humans are alone in the universe is a {!#%@} blathering idiot
Name someone on this board who thinks that.
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Re: Earliest recorded UFO sightings

Post by Gord » Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:11 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Pamam55 wrote:Anyone who thinks humans are alone in the universe is a {!#%@} blathering idiot
Name someone on this board who thinks that.
Pamam55 is a blathering idiot, therefore Pamam55 must think that.
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Re: Earliest recorded UFO sightings

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:22 pm

Gord wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Pamam55 wrote:Anyone who thinks humans are alone in the universe is a {!#%@} blathering idiot
Name someone on this board who thinks that.
Pamam55 is a blathering idiot, therefore Pamam55 must think that.
Well duh.
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Re: Earliest recorded UFO sightings

Post by Pamam55 » Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:12 am

It always amazes me the arrogance and ignorance of humans. The worst combination is an arrogant, ignorant person, which most on this planet are.

"Oh if aliens exist then they are way out there and aren't as advanced as us" LMFAO despite all the evidence they created humans you morons still can't see it

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Re: Earliest recorded UFO sightings

Post by Lance Kennedy » Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:11 am

Pamam

Note the following statement.


The universe is so large that there is a very high probability that life exists somewhere away from the Earth.

I predict that almost no-one on the skeptics forum would deny this. Anyone care to comment?

How advanced such life might or might not be is something we cannot judge due to lack of evidence. This statement also I predict almost no-one on the skeptics forum would deny.

Assuming I am right, and I am pretty sure I am, that means your accusations are wrong.

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Re: Earliest recorded UFO sightings

Post by Austin Harper » Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:00 pm

Exactly, Lance.

Life is very like to exist. I think most of us on this board (at least the mammals, excuse my classism) are familiar with the Drake equation:
Frank Drake wrote: N = Rfpneffifc

where:
  • N = the number of civilizations in our galaxy with which communication might be possible;
  • R = the average rate of star formation per year in our galaxy
  • fp = the fraction of those stars that have planets
  • ne = the average number of planets that can potentially support life per star that has planets
  • f = the fraction of the above that actually go on to develop life at some point
  • fi = the fraction of the above that actually go on to develop intelligent life
  • fc = the fraction of civilizations that develop a technology that releases detectable signs of their existence into space
  • L = the length of time for which such civilizations release detectable signals into space
Dum ratio nos ducet, valebimus et multa bene geremus.

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Gawdzilla Sama
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Re: Earliest recorded UFO sightings

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:32 pm

ne is growing rapidly. We have over 700 planets of all types located now, and we've barely scratched the surface. The places where life can be possible appears to be an astronomical number. (No pun intended, but I know you lot...)
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