Let's Talk Ancient Aliens Theory

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Re: Let's Talk Ancient Aliens Theory

Post by sangos » Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:53 pm

I watched the series and the feeling I got was that every achievement in human history and myths are argued as real and aided by aliens. So I thought up some other achievement that has NOT been covered in the series and pretend to be a "alien astronaut theorist". But I have to admit that I am up against a brick wall to drive my skeptism through. here is what I did..."In Indian Ayurveda Zinc is well known to be crucial for male testosterone level and libido. Now the ancients actually took Zinc metal and converted it into a 100% bioavailable form called Bhasm or roughly ash" Now two things how the heck did these guys know about Zinc and its administration and I don't want to believe that they got the medical tests done in some woo woo space lab run by Dr Nakiaona visiting earth". I guess we need to do some counter research into ancient achievements to debunk all these snake oil "experts"

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Re: Let's Talk Ancient Aliens Theory

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:17 pm

The problem with the overarching meme there, "The ancients had knowledge they shouldn't have had!" is that the rare "hits" are touted loudly while the hundreds or thousands of "misses" are ignored. And, of course, the "hits" are for relatively minor things, like treating E.D. No ancient developed a way to regrow limbs or make an eye grow back after being lost.
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Re: Let's Talk Ancient Aliens Theory

Post by OlegTheBatty » Wed Sep 07, 2011 3:10 pm

Gawdzilla wrote:The problem with the overarching meme there, "The ancients had knowledge they shouldn't have had!" is that the rare "hits" are touted loudly while the hundreds or thousands of "misses" are ignored. And, of course, the "hits" are for relatively minor things, like treating E.D. No ancient developed a way to regrow limbs or make an eye grow back after being lost.
When contemplating the trial and error process that led to cheese, I reckon that alien intervention is at least as plausible. :P
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Re: Let's Talk Ancient Aliens Theory

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:14 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:The problem with the overarching meme there, "The ancients had knowledge they shouldn't have had!" is that the rare "hits" are touted loudly while the hundreds or thousands of "misses" are ignored. And, of course, the "hits" are for relatively minor things, like treating E.D. No ancient developed a way to regrow limbs or make an eye grow back after being lost.
When contemplating the trial and error process that led to cheese, I reckon that alien intervention is at least as plausible. :P
Same same eating raw shellfish.
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Re: Let's Talk Ancient Aliens Theory

Post by Gord » Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:53 am

People ate all kinds of weird crap. If it didn't kill them, they kept eating it. If they lived to be grandparents, they claimed their longevity was due to whatever weird crap they were eating.

You don't have to know what you're doing to invent stuff, you just have to survive the "process." ;)
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Re: Let's Talk Ancient Aliens Theory

Post by OlegTheBatty » Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:59 am

Gord wrote:People ate all kinds of weird crap. If it didn't kill them, they kept eating it. If they lived to be grandparents, they claimed their longevity was due to whatever weird crap they were eating.
A good summary of the first 6 million years of nutrition science.
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

There is no statement so absurd that it has not been uttered by some philosopher. - Cicero

.......................Doesn't matter how often I'm proved wrong.................... ~ bobbo the pragmatist

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Re: Let's Talk Ancient Aliens Theory

Post by Gord » Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:35 am

OlegTheBatty wrote:
Gord wrote:People ate all kinds of weird crap. If it didn't kill them, they kept eating it. If they lived to be grandparents, they claimed their longevity was due to whatever weird crap they were eating.
A good summary of the first 6 million years of nutrition science.
And my own family history. *burp*
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
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Re: Let's Talk Ancient Aliens Theory

Post by OlegTheBatty » Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:41 am

Gord wrote:
OlegTheBatty wrote:
Gord wrote:People ate all kinds of weird crap. If it didn't kill them, they kept eating it. If they lived to be grandparents, they claimed their longevity was due to whatever weird crap they were eating.
A good summary of the first 6 million years of nutrition science.
And my own family history. *burp*
One of the first things I learned when I went to Japan was that if it had a biological origin and wouldn't kill you outright, somebody there was eating it (except for other people).
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

There is no statement so absurd that it has not been uttered by some philosopher. - Cicero

.......................Doesn't matter how often I'm proved wrong.................... ~ bobbo the pragmatist

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Re: Let's Talk Ancient Aliens Theory

Post by Gord » Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:50 am

OlegTheBatty wrote:
Gord wrote:
OlegTheBatty wrote:
Gord wrote:People ate all kinds of weird crap. If it didn't kill them, they kept eating it. If they lived to be grandparents, they claimed their longevity was due to whatever weird crap they were eating.
A good summary of the first 6 million years of nutrition science.
And my own family history. *burp*
One of the first things I learned when I went to Japan was that if it had a biological origin and wouldn't kill you outright, somebody there was eating it (except for other people).
You clearly didn't visit every shop! :P
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
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Re: Let's Talk Ancient Aliens Theory

Post by OlegTheBatty » Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:55 am

Gord wrote:
OlegTheBatty wrote:
Gord wrote:
OlegTheBatty wrote:
Gord wrote:People ate all kinds of weird crap. If it didn't kill them, they kept eating it. If they lived to be grandparents, they claimed their longevity was due to whatever weird crap they were eating.
A good summary of the first 6 million years of nutrition science.
And my own family history. *burp*
One of the first things I learned when I went to Japan was that if it had a biological origin and wouldn't kill you outright, somebody there was eating it (except for other people).
You clearly didn't visit every shop! :P
No, but on the other hand, some people will kill you outright if you try to eat them.
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

There is no statement so absurd that it has not been uttered by some philosopher. - Cicero

.......................Doesn't matter how often I'm proved wrong.................... ~ bobbo the pragmatist

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Re: Let's Talk Ancient Aliens Theory

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:33 am

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Re: Let's Talk Ancient Aliens Theory

Post by Kimura » Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:53 am

i was really dissapointed in the series. When i heard of it i hoped it was gonna be a special about the possibility that what ancient man thought was God in the sense we think of a "God" was actually aliens, i must admit the thought have crossed my mind from time to time also. HOWEVER this show thinks EVERYTHING is alien intervention. I dont think there is anything that they talk about that man couldnt have done on their own.

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Re: Let's Talk Ancient Aliens Theory

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:42 pm

Kimura wrote:i was really dissapointed in the series. When i heard of it i hoped it was gonna be a special about the possibility that what ancient man thought was God in the sense we think of a "God" was actually aliens, i must admit the thought have crossed my mind from time to time also. HOWEVER this show thinks EVERYTHING is alien intervention. I dont think there is anything that they talk about that man couldnt have done on their own.
All same-same the ghost hunter shows. They take anything they can fit into the paradigm as "evidence". If they didn't lie about that stuff the whole series would be about 5 seconds long. "Sorry, we got nothing." :lol:
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Re: Let's Talk Ancient Aliens Theory

Post by dm3000 » Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:19 am

Here's the foundation of all ancient aliens claims:

"I can't figure out how X was built, therefore no human could have built X. It must have been aliens."

"I wouldn't be able to build X, therefore no human could have built X. It must have been aliens."

"I can't find an immediate explanation for this drawing, carving, ritual, dance, custom and/or belief, therefore it must have extraterrestrial origins."

Basically this show relies on the claim that ancient man was too stupid/unskilled to achieve their amazing engineering feats. You have some "researcher" who looks at a stone wall and is astonished at how well the stones fit together. Because he would be unable to achieve such precision in our modern era (assuming we would be, by default, better at building such structures using ancient methodology), the "researcher" jumps to the conclusion that it was built with ET help or by ETs. I find this pretty offensive, and I'm a difficult person to offend. A stone mason who would have worked on such important projects, like Egyptian pyramids or temples, would have likely been one of the best of their era (just like today, they would have hired the most skilled workers for jobs that require a great amount of skill). They would have likely been raised in this role, inheriting (learning) the knowledge of past generations and spending their entire life mastering their craft. They would have been far more accustomed to the tools of the era than we could ever be, and even though it's amazing, it's hardly supernatural.

I also see a great deal of cultural bias in this program. They look at ancient art or rituals and assume that these people are trying to mimic or interpret something from our culture (such as light bulbs and astronauts). They look at drawings of their gods or other religious/cultural characters and look for parallels with modern pop science fiction (example: this carving of a man with big eyes looks like a "grey alien" and so we'll assume that simple ancient man was trying to draw an alien).

I could write a book on how much I hate Ancient Aliens and the History Channel in general. In fact, I'm currently writing an analysis of "educational" television for my blog, but I'll save the bulk of my ranting for that. Ancient Aliens is the absolute bottom of the barrel and it sickens me that this passes for "historical" programming. The movie Idiocracy is looking more and more plausible with every episode. The lack of ethics and standards at the History Channel, Discovery network and even Nat Geo, is truly disturbing.

In fact, for my blog, I just calculated that the Discovery Channel is devoting 46 percent of its broadcast time during a random one-week span to the following: guns, motorcycles and general pseudoscience (ghosts, monsters, aliens). Sigh... can't they just re-run the Planet Earth series again? And I want the BBC version that was narrated by David Attenborough! Screw Sigourney Weaver!

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Re: Let's Talk Ancient Aliens Theory

Post by Gord » Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:42 am

dm3000 wrote:Here's the foundation of all ancient aliens claims:

"I can't figure out how X was built, therefore no human could have built X. It must have been aliens."

"I wouldn't be able to build X, therefore no human could have built X. It must have been aliens."

"I can't find an immediate explanation for this drawing, carving, ritual, dance, custom and/or belief, therefore it must have extraterrestrial origins."
There's an even more fundamental source for all such claims: "I want to believe, therefore I will believe."

Everything and anything that could possibly be taken as evidence, no matter how frail or shaky, and no matter what "experts" say, will be added to a pile. Nothing will be removed from that pile, ever. The individual is then allowed to decide when the pile is big enough and heavy enough to constitute proof. It becomes a measure of quantity rather than quality. And because they want to believe, they will defend that pile to the end and beyond -- heaven forbid anyone should ever threaten to remove any of the evidence by showing it to belong in another pile.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
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Re: Let's Talk Ancient Aliens Theory

Post by Harte » Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:30 am

Parrot wrote:
You have a copy of the Vaimanika Shaastra? That's awesome! I love the Vimanas! I wrote about those in my second article.
Loved your blogs.

For payment - here's your copy of the V.S. :

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/viman ... efault.htm

If you want to download the pdf, here:
http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www. ... zOYul90HvQ

You're welcome, assuming you didn't already find it (and assuming you're still here and still care.)

Otherwise, pardon me.

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Re: Let's Talk Ancient Aliens Theory

Post by OlegTheBatty » Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:46 am

The only significant paragraph in your link is:

If you are looking for an ancient manuscript on this fascinating topic, you'll need to keep on looking. The Vymanika Shastra was first committed to writing between 1918 and 1923, and nobody is claiming that it came from some mysterious antique manuscript. The fact is, there are no manuscripts of this text prior to 1918, and nobody is claiming that there are. So on one level, this is not a hoax. You just have to buy into the assumption that 'channeling' works.
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

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Re: Let's Talk Ancient Aliens Theory

Post by Harte » Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:22 pm

Hey, I wasn't the one asking for a copy!

Obviously, I know the thing is crap.

Even though the thing is bogus, I've still seen posters claim that something comes from the V.S. when that particular thing isn't even mentioned in this bogus book.

A double whammy of woo. Woo to the second power. The woo leading the wooier.

Or something like that.


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Re: Let's Talk Ancient Aliens Theory

Post by Monster » Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:33 pm

dm3000 wrote: "I can't figure out how X was built, therefore no human could have built X. It must have been aliens."

"I wouldn't be able to build X, therefore no human could have built X. It must have been aliens."

"I can't find an immediate explanation for this drawing, carving, ritual, dance, custom and/or belief, therefore it must have extraterrestrial origins."
That's roughly the same as the god of the gaps argument. Kind of.
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Re: Let's Talk Ancient Aliens Theory

Post by OlegTheBatty » Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:33 pm

Harte wrote:Hey, I wasn't the one asking for a copy!

Obviously, I know the thing is crap.

Even though the thing is bogus, I've still seen posters claim that something comes from the V.S. when that particular thing isn't even mentioned in this bogus book.

A double whammy of woo. Woo to the second power. The woo leading the wooier.

Or something like that.


Harte
I figured from the tone of your post that you were not a disciple. I posted that bit so that the naive would know what they were in for.
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

There is no statement so absurd that it has not been uttered by some philosopher. - Cicero

.......................Doesn't matter how often I'm proved wrong.................... ~ bobbo the pragmatist

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Re: Let's Talk Ancient Aliens Theory

Post by dm3000 » Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:45 am

Monster wrote:
dm3000 wrote: "I can't figure out how X was built, therefore no human could have built X. It must have been aliens."

"I wouldn't be able to build X, therefore no human could have built X. It must have been aliens."

"I can't find an immediate explanation for this drawing, carving, ritual, dance, custom and/or belief, therefore it must have extraterrestrial origins."
That's roughly the same as the god of the gaps argument. Kind of.
It's pretty much, more or less, the general extraordinary belief argument. The lightbulb in my lamp started to flicker -- it must be ghosts! That bird is really pretty -- it must have been designed by god! I saw a weird light in the night sky -- it must have been a UFO! I had a dream about an old friend and three days later I bumped into her at the store -- it must be a sign from my dead grandma to ask her out!

I can't immediately explain X, thus it must have an extraordinary explanation.

Another thing I hate about these types of shows is that they present "evidence" to support their claims, but they never provide proof to support their evidence. For example, they'll claim that lifting a massive, heavy stone is proof that aliens were involved but they never prove that humans couldn't have done it without help from above.

Seriously -- why is this crap on the History Channel? Why is it on television in general? I wonder what Peter Weller has to say about all this...

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Re: Let's Talk Ancient Aliens Theory

Post by Gord » Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:02 am

dm3000 wrote:Seriously -- why is this crap on the History Channel?
I guess nobody thinks they can make money showing intelligent shows.
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Re: Let's Talk Ancient Aliens Theory

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:56 am

dm3000 wrote:Seriously -- why is this crap on the History Channel?
The Cartoon Channel declined to show the programs. "We have standards after all."
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Re: Let's Talk Ancient Aliens Theory

Post by Blacksamwell » Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:33 am

This seemed appropriate...
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Re: Let's Talk Ancient Aliens Theory

Post by geology rocks » Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:52 am

Gord wrote:
dm3000 wrote:Seriously -- why is this crap on the History Channel?
I guess nobody thinks they can make money showing intelligent shows.
That "Lost Tapes" crap on the Discovery Channel convinced me of that. :(
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Re: Let's Talk Ancient Aliens Theory

Post by zombiekim » Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:02 pm

I could write a book on how much I hate Ancient Aliens and the History Channel in general. [...] The lack of ethics and standards at the History Channel, Discovery network and even Nat Geo, is truly disturbing.
Yep. A few years ago, there was an episode of their show "Digging for the Truth" about the idea that Atlanteans built the Pyramids. If I remember correctly, they ended the show with that typical "we may never know the truth, but the evidence is intriguing" garbage. Absolutely nothing was mentioned about the fact that Atlantis was just an allegory invented by Plato--because, you know, that would be actual history.
The History Channel always makes me think of this: http://www.theonion.com/articles/scienc ... ny-f,2897/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Let's Talk Ancient Aliens Theory

Post by Gord » Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:30 am

I watched an episode of Brad Meltzer's Decoded recently. Augh!! It was horrible.

They're looking for evidence of the Illuminati or something, I forget. They see a statue of Atlas and inform us it could represent the One World Government because Atlas is holding the whole world on his shoulders.

No! Atlas is NOT holding the world on his shoulders. Atlas is holding the HEAVENS on his shoulders!

Look closely: You can see the symbols on it that represent the planets. (And yes, that's the actual statue they were looking at.)
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
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Re: Let's Talk Ancient Aliens Theory

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:47 am

Gord wrote:I watched an episode of Brad Meltzer's Decoded recently. Augh!! It was horrible.

They're looking for evidence of the Illuminati or something, I forget. They see a statue of Atlas and inform us it could represent the One World Government because Atlas is holding the whole world on his shoulders.

No! Atlas is NOT holding the world on his shoulders. Atlas is holding the HEAVENS on his shoulders!

Look closely: You can see the symbols on it that represent the planets. (And yes, that's the actual statue they were looking at.)
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Re: Let's Talk Ancient Aliens Theory

Post by bigtim » Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:29 am

The entire ancient aliens crap is a self-hate specieist issue.... humans can't POSSIBLY be capable... racist is what it is IMO
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Re: Let's Talk Ancient Aliens Theory

Post by Austin Harper » Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:32 pm

bigtim wrote:The entire ancient aliens crap is a self-hate specieist issue.... humans can't POSSIBLY be capable... racist is what it is IMO
I feel the same way, Tim. Modern humans are ingenious (at times). Just because ancient humans didn't have the same resources we do now doesn't make them any less clever.
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Re: Let's Talk Ancient Aliens Theory

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:15 pm

bigtim wrote:The entire ancient aliens crap is a self-hate specieist issue.... humans can't POSSIBLY be capable... racist is what it is IMO
I think it's hilarious. "Ancient man did things I can't conceive of and I have to compensate by generating fantasies."
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Re: Let's Talk Ancient Aliens Theory

Post by bigtim » Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:54 pm

Gawdzilla wrote:
bigtim wrote:The entire ancient aliens crap is a self-hate specieist issue.... humans can't POSSIBLY be capable... racist is what it is IMO
I think it's hilarious. "Ancient man did things I can't conceive of and I have to compensate by generating fantasies."
and thus, the porn industry was born....
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Re: Let's Talk Ancient Aliens Theory

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:26 pm

bigtim wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:
bigtim wrote:The entire ancient aliens crap is a self-hate specieist issue.... humans can't POSSIBLY be capable... racist is what it is IMO
I think it's hilarious. "Ancient man did things I can't conceive of and I have to compensate by generating fantasies."
and thus, the porn industry was born....
Are there many ancient men in porn these days?
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Re: Let's Talk Ancient Aliens Theory

Post by bigtim » Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:07 am

Gawdzilla wrote:
bigtim wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:
bigtim wrote:The entire ancient aliens crap is a self-hate specieist issue.... humans can't POSSIBLY be capable... racist is what it is IMO
I think it's hilarious. "Ancient man did things I can't conceive of and I have to compensate by generating fantasies."
and thus, the porn industry was born....
Are there many ancient men in porn these days?
cave walls are covered with it....
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Re: Let's Talk Ancient Aliens Theory

Post by Nessie » Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:08 pm

dm3000 wrote: ........

In fact, for my blog, I just calculated that the Discovery Channel is devoting 46 percent of its broadcast time during a random one-week span to the following: guns (BAD), motorcycles (GREAT STUFF!) and general pseudoscience (ghosts, monsters, aliens) (MORE BAD) . Sigh... can't they just re-run the Planet Earth series again? And I want the BBC version that was narrated by David Attenborough! (VERY GOOD) Screw Sigourney Weaver! (YES PLEASE!)
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Re: Let's Talk Ancient Aliens Theory

Post by Bunyip » Sat Oct 15, 2011 7:39 am

Just because ancient humans didn't have the same resources we do now doesn't make them any less clever.


Iindeed.

The other night is saw an excellent documentary about the geat physician Galen. They showed many Roman surgical intruments, included were some used for removingi catarcts. The basic techniques have not changed and instrumenst used today are remarkably similar.


Also worth remembering that a first century ce Greek,. Hero of Alexandria invented a range of stunning machines, including a steam engine.

Hero (or Heron) of Alexandria (Greek: Ἥρων ὁ Ἀλεξανδρεύς) (c. 10–70 AD) was an ancient Greek mathematician and engineer[1][2][3] who was active in his native city of Alexandria, Roman Egypt. He is considered the greatest experimenter of antiquity[1] and his work is representative of the Hellenistic scientific tradition.[4]

Hero published a well recognized description of a steam-powered device called an aeolipile (hence sometimes called a "Hero engine"). Among his most famous inventions was a windwheel, constituting the earliest instance of wind harnessing on land.[5][6] He is said to have been a follower of the Atomists. Some of his ideas were derived from the works of Ctesibius.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero_of_Alexandria" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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The pyramids are marvels of precision engineering,but not especially sophisticated in design. The pyramid is the simplest shape for such a huge building,as it does not use the arch,the dome or flying buttress.to support the structure. THAT is why the shape is found all over the world.
A pyramid (from Greek: "πυραμίς" – pyramis[1]) is a structure whose outer surfaces are triangular and converge at a single point. The base of a pyramid can be trilateral, quadrilateral, or any polygon shape, meaning that a pyramid has at least three triangular surfaces (at least four faces including the base). The square pyramid, with square base and four triangular outer surfaces, is a common version.

A pyramid's design, with the majority of the weight closer to the ground,[2] and with the pyramidion on top means that less material higher up on the pyramid will be pushing down from above. This distribution of weight allowed early civilizations to create stable monumental structures.

For thousands of years, the largest structures on Earth were pyramids—first the Red Pyramid in the Dashur Necropolis and then the Great Pyramid of Khufu, both of Egypt, the latter the only one of the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World still remaining. Khufu's Pyramid is built entirely of limestone, and is considered an architectural masterpiece. It contains around 1,300,000 blocks ranging in weight from 2.5 tonnes (5,500 lb) to 15 tonnes (33,000 lb) and is built on a square base with sides measuring about 230 m (755 ft), covering 13 acres. Its four sides face the four cardinal points precisely and it has an angle of 52 degrees. The original height of the Pyramid was 146.5 m (488 ft), but today it is only 137 m (455 ft) high, the 9 m (33 ft) that is missing is due to the theft of the fine quality limestone covering, or casing stones to build houses and Mosques in Cairo. It is still the tallest pyramid. The largest pyramid by volume is the Great Pyramid of Cholula, in the Mexican state of Puebla
.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Let's Talk Ancient Aliens Theory

Post by Utnapishtim » Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:51 pm

I am a true skeptic even though I have seen what I think to be a flying saucer (I do not believe it to be from another world) but first a quick story. When I was young living in Boron California a close friend of my step father known for never being a teller of tall tales of any sort (at this time you could actually drive through Edwards Air Force Base and actually see the Rocket Sled Tests being conducted) saw a saucer like device landing on Edawrds Air Force Base and being quickly puched into a hanger.

The issues I see with UFO controversy is that we are mixing different flavors of UFO’s and calling them all Aliens from outer space. As I see it there are five possible types of UFO’s.

1. An actual not of this world UFO.
2. Black Ops Projects.
a. Most of the UFO’s that fly a non-erratic course and are not alien, hoaxes or illusions.
b. Those that are visible and are not explainable by 1, 3 and 4.
3. Miss-identified terrestrial aircraft.
a. These are those that are actual terrestrial aircraft or birds.
b. Terrestrial visual distortion of the atmosphere.
4. Ball lightening or a similar phenomenon.
a. These compromise those that fly an erratic course.
b. Fly at extreme speeds.
c. Do not display a solid shape.
d. Are electro-magnetic in nature.
e. Make extreme course changes.
5, Hoaxes most likely the most common.
a. These are the most prolific.
b. Causes more harm to the investigators.

Logically, If I were an alien and I was investigating, observing or experimenting with subjects on another planet ( i.e. Like the LSD tests that were conducted on soldiers without their knowledge or permission ) I would not allow myself to be accidentally seen nor would I corrupt my data by injecting the tester into the equations.
A lot of the UFOs depicted I believe to be ‘Ball Lightening’ encounters. A fully material object moving in Earths gravity well with our dense atmosphere moving upwards to 10,000 MPH making major turns in a matter of seconds do not fall under the laws of physics. These maneuvers would tear material objects apart not to mention the life forms inside. These objects also follow other objects with metallic structures especially if they have electronic. By looping these into the same thing as an extra-terrestrial UFOs is absurd. These objects are a natural phenomenon and might even have something to do with the older simpler crop circles and also seem to be related to atomic bomb testing. To be able to perform these types of maneuvers it would be necessary to have no mass what so ever and that fits the definition of Ball Lightening.
Many of the UFO’s that are not hoaxes nor Ball Lightening or Black Ops are just Miss-identified object usually due to atmospheric distortion, lighting or being partially hidden behind some other object.
Black Ops are probably the most actual UFO’s seen and are allow to be mistaken as extra-terrestrial UFOs because of secrecy. They are the UFOs that are seen that can’t be put into the other categories. The US Government is quite well known for pulling the wool over our eyes and to believe that they are not doing it now, I believe is foolish.
I don’t believe that we have to get technology or inspiration from extra-terrestrial aliens. We are a very intelligent race that allows emotion, fear and religious fervor to cover up government projects. By thinking that we can’t make it in this world without intervention from some higher source I think is ridicules.
The Flying Saucer issue is also full of ambiguities such as the idea that they have a super propulsion drive to move the Saucer, goes to the one of the roots of my conflict. The saucer shape is not a real good aerodynamic design. With the super drive they are supposed to have they could fly a brick through the air. So why would they build a ship that does not give them optimum space or a better aerodynamic design. Most of our extra-terrestrial ventures we have to worry about space, weight and size because our propulsion source is not powerful enough. If theirs is as good as some are saying I don’t think they would use a poor design just to look good.
I am not saying that there is not any extra-terrestrial in the Universe, flying around our skies or walking among us, it is just that what we are seeing is not always what we think it is. Just like ghost if you turn just a logical look at the issue you would see that since the beginning of man, all that have died or were killed would make this world so full of ghost that there is probably 50,000 of them sitting in your lap right now. Extra-terrestrials would not be dumb nor would they allow themselves to be seen. They would travel in conventional terrestrial air craft. They would not be so crude as to act like idiots.
As far as 'Alien Death Rays' go one of my step uncles was one of the engineers that designed the laser and I talked with him many times when he was working on this and he would always discuss problems that his team had in the design or implementation of the original laser. Of course he would not tell me what he was working on until years later but from what I have gathered from him and his engineer brother (there were three brothers in my step father’s family that became engineers).
If we start to separate the chaff from the seeds the chances of seeing a real extra-terrestrial start to diminish. Don’t look to the skies to see an extra-terrestrial look behind or beside you that is where you would most likely see one IF THEY ARE REALLY HERE.

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Re: Let's Talk Ancient Aliens Theory

Post by sceptik_being » Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:50 am

Even though all the claims made by the show in history channel is not true, there are many fascinating aspects that this theory puts forward and its hard to deny them.. Like how could people cut such huge stone block with no tools, thousands of years ago..
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Re: Let's Talk Ancient Aliens Theory

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:37 pm

sceptik_being wrote:Even though all the claims made by the show in history channel is not true, there are many fascinating aspects that this theory puts forward and its hard to deny them.. Like how could people cut such huge stone block with no tools, thousands of years ago..
Really? No tools? C'mon, please. This has been debunked endless times. The great failed obelisk at Giza shows the technique clearly.
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Re: Let's Talk Ancient Aliens Theory

Post by Poodle » Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:09 pm

sceptik_being wrote:Even though all the claims made by the show in history channel is not true, there are many fascinating aspects that this theory puts forward and its hard to deny them.. Like how could people cut such huge stone block with no tools, thousands of years ago..
Have you seen those dovetail joints 18th century furniture makers could create? I've never been able to achieve that accuracy (actually, I've never tried). Ergo, said furniture makers must have been in contact with the Wood People from the planet Timber.