Sea Serpents in San Francisco Bay!

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Re: Sea Serpents in San Francisco Bay!

Post by Daedalus » Wed Oct 16, 2013 7:46 pm

sfseaserpent wrote:
Daedalus wrote:
Because he's dumber than a bag of hammers, and he wants to be SPECIAL. If he posts this on a woo forum he'll just be another goober who sees monsters... here he gets to pretend that he's the only one, a warrior for the truth!


Now you are claiming that you have the ability to read our minds?



There isn't much to read... more like skimming a pamphlet to be honest... :lol:
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Re: Sea Serpents in San Francisco Bay!

Post by sfseaserpent » Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:14 pm

Daedalus wrote:
sfseaserpent wrote:
Daedalus wrote:
Because he's dumber than a bag of hammers, and he wants to be SPECIAL. If he posts this on a woo forum he'll just be another goober who sees monsters... here he gets to pretend that he's the only one, a warrior for the truth!


Now you are claiming that you have the ability to read our minds?



There isn't much to read... more like skimming a pamphlet to be honest... :lol:


Whatever is in our minds, are you claiming to have the ability to read our minds?
"There cannot be the slightest doubt that you have had the chance sighting of an animal obviously unknown to science." ---Dr. Bernard Heuvelmans-- August 8, 1985

A skeptic is someone who sees the handwriting on the wall and claims it's a forgery.

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Re: Sea Serpents in San Francisco Bay!

Post by Daedalus » Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:31 pm

sfseaserpent wrote:
Daedalus wrote:
sfseaserpent wrote:
Daedalus wrote:
Because he's dumber than a bag of hammers, and he wants to be SPECIAL. If he posts this on a woo forum he'll just be another goober who sees monsters... here he gets to pretend that he's the only one, a warrior for the truth!


Now you are claiming that you have the ability to read our minds?



There isn't much to read... more like skimming a pamphlet to be honest... :lol:


Whatever is in our minds, are you claiming to have the ability to read our minds?


I'm claiming that what little there is in your mind, is broadcast thoroughly in your meandering posts. :D
"Propaganda is a monologue which seeks not a response, but an echo." (W.H. Auden)
"Given time and plenty of paper, philosophers can prove anything." (Robert Heinlein)
"The map is not the territory." (Alfred Korzybski)
“You’re in the desert, you see a tortoise lying on its back, struggling, and you’re not helping — why is that?" (Bladerunner)

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Re: Sea Serpents in San Francisco Bay!

Post by sfseaserpent » Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:04 pm

Daedalus wrote:
sfseaserpent wrote:
Whatever is in our minds, are you claiming to have the ability to read our minds?


I'm claiming that what little there is in your mind, is broadcast thoroughly in your meandering posts. :D


Maybe you'll be willing to answer this question since Cobalt6 meandered away from answering it.

Are you suggesting when someone has a close definitive sighting of a sea serpent that they shouldn't report their sighting to someone just because they don't have physical evidence to prove they had their sighting?
"There cannot be the slightest doubt that you have had the chance sighting of an animal obviously unknown to science." ---Dr. Bernard Heuvelmans-- August 8, 1985

A skeptic is someone who sees the handwriting on the wall and claims it's a forgery.

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Re: Sea Serpents in San Francisco Bay!

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:52 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:They are lying.
sfseaserpent wrote: Prove that we are lying. Put your money where your mouth is.


Lie No1) Speed of the hoax sea serpent
sfseaserpent wrote:"The animals are large enough and fast enough to travel great distances in a short period of time in order to hunt prey"
You don't know their maximum speed. You don't even know their size. You fabricated this statement from start to finish. Steve Bjora, thought he saw a 100foot Oarfish doing 40 mph, off the cliff at Marin County but that is where only a 272 kilogram, 4.5 metre long Oarfish was caught last year. His distance estimates were out by 600%.

Your hoax sea serpent is 33 meters long and weighs 55 metric tons (1/2 what a whale weighs, which travels at 12mph. ) You don't have a clue what speed your creature can travel or for how long.



Lie No2) The 55 metric ton hoax creature doesn't move any water in the video
sfseaserpent wrote:The video doesn't show "flat" water.

Here is Bob and Bill's video of the hoax creature. Note that the water does not move in the video despite the claim that this 55 ton hoax creature moves using undulatory locomotion which requires the displacement of an equal amount of water on the surface where it is supposedly moving and videoed by Bob & Bill.

Start watching at 40.20 minutes for video and debunking at 44.18 (It's birds)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqMaMiomMnE


Lie No3) "Coils" behind the creature like "sea monster" on 16th century map
This is just hilarious. Undulatory locomotion requires a "tube like creature" (snake) to form "S" shapes that flow from the head to the tail. Propulsion comes from "pushing" the rear side of the "S" curve against the water. For this reason undulatory locomotion is always horizontal. However in old maps this horizontal motion is artistically represented as vertical in sea monsters. Bob and Bill don't know basic mathematics or physics and claim that their 55 ton hoax monster propels its self by pushing half its body above the surface to then push against air based on what they know from looking at sea monsters on old maps.
sfseaserpent wrote:At the beginning of our video, one of the animals creates an arch behind its head which can be seen moving down the entire length of its body.
Look at the video posted above from 44min. There is no arching. There are birds flying in a flock. There is no coil. Bill is lying.

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Re: Sea Serpents in San Francisco Bay!

Post by scrmbldggs » Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:13 am

A real SF Bay "serpent". :-P

[ytube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDUIYZKlknk[/ytube]
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Re: Sea Serpents in San Francisco Bay!

Post by Daedalus » Thu Oct 17, 2013 1:03 am

sfseaserpent wrote:
Daedalus wrote:
sfseaserpent wrote:
Whatever is in our minds, are you claiming to have the ability to read our minds?


I'm claiming that what little there is in your mind, is broadcast thoroughly in your meandering posts. :D


Maybe you'll be willing to answer this question since Cobalt6 meandered away from answering it.

Are you suggesting when someone has a close definitive sighting of a sea serpent that they shouldn't report their sighting to someone just because they don't have physical evidence to prove they had their sighting?


By all means, report whatever you like!

Are you saying that the world should take the testimony of some putz who claims to have seen a magical sea dragon, in the absence of all corroborating evidence, seriously?

If you claimed to actually encounter a giant squid while on a deep sea dive many years ago, it would be believable even if you had no evidence. Sure, you could be lying, but there was evidence that such a creature could exist.

Claim to have discovered a new species of primate? Wow, what a shock to the scientific community, but it's not as though we don't know that primates exist.

Want to claim that you've seen an enormous pelagic predator for which no evidence exists, which has no evolutionary history that has ever been observed, and has left absolutely NO mark on the fossil record at any point in its evolutionary history?

Bring me some DNA, a scale, a fin... SOMETHING... or enjoy telling your fish story and don't get pissy when I laugh in your face.
"Propaganda is a monologue which seeks not a response, but an echo." (W.H. Auden)
"Given time and plenty of paper, philosophers can prove anything." (Robert Heinlein)
"The map is not the territory." (Alfred Korzybski)
“You’re in the desert, you see a tortoise lying on its back, struggling, and you’re not helping — why is that?" (Bladerunner)

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Re: Sea Serpents in San Francisco Bay!

Post by sfseaserpent » Thu Oct 17, 2013 1:27 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:They are lying.
sfseaserpent wrote: Prove that we are lying. Put your money where your mouth is.


Lie No1) Speed of the hoax sea serpent
sfseaserpent wrote:"The animals are large enough and fast enough to travel great distances in a short period of time in order to hunt prey"
[color=#000080]You don't know their maximum speed. You don't even know their size. You fabricated this statement from start to finish. Steve Bjora, thought he saw a 100foot Oarfish doing 40 mph, off the cliff at Marin County but that is where only a 272 kilogram, 4.5 metre long Oarfish was caught last year. His distance estimates were out by 600%.


You're a liar. Bjora never said he saw a 100 foot oarfish doing 40 MPH.

According to the November 3, 1983 issue of the San Francisco Chronicle, "Steve Bjora said the serpent was moving as fast as a car." Bjora was quoted as saying, "The sucker was going 45 to 50 miles an hour". Bjora also was quoted saying. "It was clipping. It was boogying. It looked like a long eel."

You claim because 29 years after the Stinson Beach sighting a 272 kilogram, 4.5 meter long oarfish was captured in the same general vicinity as where the Stinson Beach sighting occurred means what Bjora and the other Stinson Beach eyewitnesses saw was that specific oarfish.

That's ridiculus.

Did you bother to look at the drawing another eyewitness, Matt Ratto, drew of the animal he saw that day?

What Ratto saw and drew wasn't an oarfish.
"There cannot be the slightest doubt that you have had the chance sighting of an animal obviously unknown to science." ---Dr. Bernard Heuvelmans-- August 8, 1985

A skeptic is someone who sees the handwriting on the wall and claims it's a forgery.

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Re: Sea Serpents in San Francisco Bay!

Post by Daedalus » Thu Oct 17, 2013 1:37 am

sfseaserpent wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:They are lying.
sfseaserpent wrote: Prove that we are lying. Put your money where your mouth is.


Lie No1) Speed of the hoax sea serpent
sfseaserpent wrote:"The animals are large enough and fast enough to travel great distances in a short period of time in order to hunt prey"
You don't know their maximum speed. You don't even know their size. You fabricated this statement from start to finish. Steve Bjora, thought he saw a 100foot Oarfish doing 40 mph, off the cliff at Marin County but that is where only a 272 kilogram, 4.5 metre long Oarfish was caught last year. His distance estimates were out by 600%.


You're a liar. Bjora never said he saw a 100 foot oarfish doing 40 MPH.

According to the November 3, 1983 issue of the San Francisco Chronicle, "Steve Bjora said the serpent was moving as fast as a car." Bjora was quoted as saying, "The sucker was going 45 to 50 miles an hour". Bjora also was quoted saying. "It was clipping. It was boogying. It looked like a long eel."

You claim because 29 years after the Stinson Beach sighting a 272 kilogram, 4.5 meter long oarfish was captured in the same general vicinity as where the Stinson Beach sighting occurred means what Bjora and the other Stinson Beach eyewitnesses saw was that specific oarfish.

That's ridiculus.

Did you bother to look at the drawing another eyewitness, Matt Ratto, drew of the animal he saw that day?

What Ratto saw and drew wasn't an oarfish.


Shouldn't you respond to the rest of what Matt said? You know, about the huge inconsistencies in your story, and physical impossibility of your claims?

Is there a reason you're pretending to ignore them, because trust me boyo... nobody else is forgetting just because you wish they would.

Here, let me help remind you...

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:[color=#000080]They are lying.
sfseaserpent wrote: Prove that we are lying. Put your money where your mouth is.


Lie No1) Speed of the hoax sea serpent
sfseaserpent wrote:"The animals are large enough and fast enough to travel great distances in a short period of time in order to hunt prey"
You don't know their maximum speed. You don't even know their size. You fabricated this statement from start to finish. Steve Bjora, thought he saw a 100foot Oarfish doing 40 mph, off the cliff at Marin County but that is where only a 272 kilogram, 4.5 metre long Oarfish was caught last year. His distance estimates were out by 600%.

Your hoax sea serpent is 33 meters long and weighs 55 metric tons (1/2 what a whale weighs, which travels at 12mph. ) You don't have a clue what speed your creature can travel or for how long.



Lie No2) The 55 metric ton hoax creature doesn't move any water in the video
sfseaserpent wrote:The video doesn't show "flat" water.

Here is Bob and Bill's video of the hoax creature. Note that the water does not move in the video despite the claim that this 55 ton hoax creature moves using undulatory locomotion which requires the displacement of an equal amount of water on the surface where it is supposedly moving and videoed by Bob & Bill.

Start watching at 40.20 minutes for video and debunking at 44.18 (It's birds)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqMaMiomMnE


Lie No3) "Coils" behind the creature like "sea monster" on 16th century map
This is just hilarious. Undulatory locomotion requires a "tube like creature" (snake) to form "S" shapes that flow from the head to the tail. Propulsion comes from "pushing" the rear side of the "S" curve against the water. For this reason undulatory locomotion is always horizontal. However in old maps this horizontal motion is artistically represented as vertical in sea monsters. Bob and Bill don't know basic mathematics or physics and claim that their 55 ton hoax monster propels its self by pushing half its body above the surface to then push against air based on what they know from looking at sea monsters on old maps.
sfseaserpent wrote:At the beginning of our video, one of the animals creates an arch behind its head which can be seen moving down the entire length of its body.
Look at the video posted above from 44min. There is no arching. There are birds flying in a flock. There is no coil. Bill is lying.
"Propaganda is a monologue which seeks not a response, but an echo." (W.H. Auden)
"Given time and plenty of paper, philosophers can prove anything." (Robert Heinlein)
"The map is not the territory." (Alfred Korzybski)
“You’re in the desert, you see a tortoise lying on its back, struggling, and you’re not helping — why is that?" (Bladerunner)

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Re: Sea Serpents in San Francisco Bay!

Post by sfseaserpent » Thu Oct 17, 2013 2:23 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:Your hoax sea serpent is 33 meters long and weighs 55 metric tons (1/2 what a whale weighs, which travels at 12mph. ) You don't have a clue what speed your creature can travel or for how long.


We saw how fast this animal can move during our first sighting and the Stinson Beach eyewitnesses all testified that the animal they saw was moving at an incredibly fast rate of speed possibly as fast as 50 MPH.

You're the one who doesn't have a clue how fast this animal can move or how far this animal can travel.

Matthew Ellard wrote:Lie No2) The 55 metric ton hoax creature doesn't move any water in the video
sfseaserpent wrote:The video doesn't show "flat" water.

Here is Bob and Bill's video of the hoax creature.


That's only a snippet of our entire video.

Matthew Ellard wrote:Note that the water does not move in the video despite the claim that this 55 ton hoax creature moves using undulatory locomotion which requires the displacement of an equal amount of water on the surface where it is supposedly moving and videoed by Bob & Bill.


There is some displacement of the water as Bruce Champagne points out in his written documentation.of his analysis of our video.

In this snippet of our video most of the animal(whatever it's size and weight) is below the surface of the water. Only small portions of the animal break the surface of the water. Its midsection where most of its weight is remains completely under the water.

Matthew Ellard wrote:Start watching at 40.20 minutes for video and debunking at 44.18 (It's birds)


Is it birds flying above the surface of the water or is it birds swimming on the surface of the water?

Which is it?

If its birds flying above the surface of the water then how is it possible for all the birds to dive into the exact same spot in the water without displacing any water?

Matthew Ellard wrote:Lie No3) "Coils" behind the creature like "sea monster" on 16th century map
This is just hilarious. Undulatory locomotion requires a "tube like creature" (snake) to form "S" shapes that flow from the head to the tail. Propulsion comes from "pushing" the rear side of the "S" curve against the water. For this reason undulatory locomotion is always horizontal.


If the rear side of the "S" curve is completely under the water then what difference does it make if the "S" shape is horizontal or vertical?

Matthew Ellard wrote:However in old maps this horizontal motion is artistically represented as vertical in sea monsters.


How do you know that is the case?

Matthew Ellard wrote:Bob and Bill don't know basic mathematics or physics..."


Bob has a Bachelor of Science degree in Mathematics and Bill completed four years of college and you claim neither of us know basic mathematics or physics.

What an absurd assertion.

Matthew Ellard wrote:and claim that their 55 ton hoax monster propels its self by pushing half its body above the surface to then push against air based on what they know from looking at sea monsters on old maps.


We never said these animals swim with half their bodies out of the water.

Most of the time these animals swim completely under the water.

Occasionally these animals swim near the surface of the water and small portions of the top of the vertical "S" curve break the surface of the water.


Matthew Ellard wrote:
sfseaserpent wrote:At the beginning of our video, one of the animals creates an arch behind its head which can be seen moving down the entire length of its body.
Look at the video posted above from 44min. There is no arching. There are birds flying in a flock. There is no coil. Bill is lying.


We're referring to an earlier portion of our video which is not included in that snippet of our video.
"There cannot be the slightest doubt that you have had the chance sighting of an animal obviously unknown to science." ---Dr. Bernard Heuvelmans-- August 8, 1985

A skeptic is someone who sees the handwriting on the wall and claims it's a forgery.

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Re: Sea Serpents in San Francisco Bay!

Post by sfseaserpent » Thu Oct 17, 2013 2:31 am

Daedalus wrote:
Shouldn't you respond to the rest of what Matt said? You know, about the huge inconsistencies in your story, and physical impossibility of your claims?

Is there a reason you're pretending to ignore them, because trust me boyo... nobody else is forgetting just because you wish they would.


Hey Dildo, there was a lot to respond to in Matt's post so we responded to his first comment and posted it then we were in the process of responding to the rest of Matt's post when you posted your dumb comment.
"There cannot be the slightest doubt that you have had the chance sighting of an animal obviously unknown to science." ---Dr. Bernard Heuvelmans-- August 8, 1985

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Re: Sea Serpents in San Francisco Bay!

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Oct 17, 2013 2:48 am

sfseaserpent wrote:That's ridiculus.
(The correct spelling is ridiculous. Get Bob and his Bachelor of Science in Maths degree to help you with basic spelling next time)

You avoided the question. Do you know the maximum speed of your hoax sea serpent or not? Have you bothered to even calculate it? The answer is no. Therefore you directly lied when you said
"The animals are large enough and fast enough to travel great distances in a short period of time in order to hunt prey"

What's entertaining about your subsequent lie is that it is very silly. For a 55 ton creature to move 50 miles (80 kilometers) per hour, using undulatory locomotion, through water, would require it to displace 1,066,666 tons of water an hour requiring the energy of a small town. The world's fastest submarine achieves 80Kph uses 120 MegaWatts an hour to do this. (A diesel engine on a train produces 6 megawatts, in comparison)

You really should have done some maths before starting this hoax.

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Re: Sea Serpents in San Francisco Bay!

Post by scrmbldggs » Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:18 am

...and from the link Poodle so kindly provided:

Update, February 2006:...

Having reached a figure for the distance to the blobs, we are now in a position to measure their size. Each blob measures about 10-12 pixels in width, corresponding to the bill-to-tail length of a bird, if my interpretation of what they are is correct. Using the scale we calculated earlier, 11 pixels is half a degree. With a distance of 176', half a degree corresponds to just over 1'7" - just right for a small to medium sized gull species.

http://www.dansoper.clara.co.uk/serpent/SFSS-saga.html
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Re: Sea Serpents in San Francisco Bay!

Post by sfseaserpent » Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:40 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
sfseaserpent wrote:That's ridiculus.
(The correct spelling is ridiculous. Get Bob and his Bachelor of Science in Maths degree to help you with basic spelling next time)


We are laughing our asses off at that post.

Matthew Ellard wrote:You avoided the question. Do you know the maximum speed of your hoax sea serpent or not? Have you bothered to even calculate it? The answer is no. Therefore you directly lied when you said "The animals are large enough and fast enough to travel great distances in a short period of time in order to hunt prey"


Of course we don't know the animal's MAXIMUM speed but we know it can travel at approximately 50 MPH which is certainly fast enough to travel long distances in a short period of time. We also know that during the Stinson Beach sighting the animal traveled from Duxbury Point to Stinson Beach in just a few minutes so we were NOT lying when we said the animals are large enough and fast enough to travel great distances in a short period of time in order to hunt prey.
Matthew Ellard wrote:For a 55 ton creature to move 50 miles (80 kilometers) per hour, using undulatory locomotion, through water, would require it to displace 1,066,666 tons of water an hour requiring the energy of a small town.


First, you're the one claiming the animal is 55 tons not us.

Second, did you base your calculations on half of the animal being out of the water?

Third, did you also include in your calculations the fact that once the animal builds up speed it can straighten out like an arrow and glide through the water?

We encourage you to send your calculations to Paiva. He'd be very interested in hearing what you have to say.

All we can do is tell you what we and the Stinson Beach eyewitnesses saw.

Matthew Ellard wrote:You really should have done some maths before starting this hoax. [/color]


It's not a hoax and you are wasting your time doing your calculations.
Last edited by sfseaserpent on Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sea Serpents in San Francisco Bay!

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:42 am

Lie No2) The 55 metric ton hoax creature doesn't move any water in the video
sfseaserpent wrote:That's only a snippet of our entire video.
The "snippet" is your only evidence of the creature moving and breaking through the water that you supplied as evidence. The water is not moving despite a 55 ton creature breaking the surface. That's because it is really just a flock of birds flying in formation over the surface.


Now Bill's "drugs kick in"
sfseaserpent wrote: In this snippet of our video most of the animal(whatever it's size and weight) is below the surface of the water. Only small portions of the animal break the surface of the water. Its midsection where most of its weight is remains completely under the water.
How can a sea serpent, with a five foot diameter, break the water with little coils the size of a bird? Can you wrap your garden hose tightly around a thread bobbin?


Now Bill's "drugs go into overdrive"
sfseaserpent wrote: If its birds flying above the surface of the water then how is it possible for all the birds to dive into the exact same spot in the water without displacing any water?
They don't. You forgot that your video had to be stabilized by Grant Fredericks because you forgot to use the tripod. The birds are skimming over the water following a school of fish. The two groups of birds separate, but you forgot that too. Do sea serpent's break in half like a flock of birds?

Bill's "Evidence" video / Fast forward to 44mins.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqMaMiomMnE


Lie No3) "Coils" behind the creature like "sea monster"
sfseaserpent wrote: If the rear side of the "S" curve is completely under the water then what difference does it make if the "S" shape is horizontal or vertical?

If half the coils are in the water. The other half are pushed into the air to push against "nothing". That requires energy to lift 25 tons of "seaserpent" into the air for no purpose. Do lift your legs over your head before placing them back on the ground to get traction?

Matthew Ellard wrote:However in old maps this horizontal motion is artistically represented as vertical in sea monsters.
sfseaserpent wrote:How do you know that is the case?
Because no living creature on earth uses vertical undulatory motion as it doesn't work. Secondly because medieval map artists are not going to paint an underwater creature that can't be seen on the map they are illustrating. The creatures were medieval inventions and signed by the cartographer.
Sea Monsters.jpg




Matthew Ellard wrote:Bob and Bill don't know basic mathematics or physics..."
sfseaserpent wrote: Bob has a Bachelor of Science degree in Mathematics and Bill completed four years of college and you claim neither of us know basic mathematics or physics.
Neither of you know rudimentary mathematics, which is obvious from the thread. I have high level mathematics degrees required for econometrics, statistics and auditing. Bob couldn't determine the area of a one meter square. You can't even spell basic words like "ridiculous".

sfseaserpent wrote: We never said these animals swim with half their bodies out of the water.
The coil is part of the same animal. The animal moves by pushing its entire body along the same coils against the water. If a coil is in the air, the whole creatures body will follow that coil. Am I correct in assuming you don't even know what undulating motion is in snakes or how it works?

sfseaserpent wrote:We're referring to an earlier portion of our video which is not included in that snippet of our video.
Well then load her up on You tube and let's start a full analysis together. We can apply Kelvin Wake speed calculators and other photo analysis techniques to determine speed, displacement, mass, buoyancy and other bits of information.
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Re: Sea Serpents in San Francisco Bay!

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:49 am

sfseaserpent wrote:That's ridiculus.
Matthew Ellard wrote: (The correct spelling is ridiculous. Get Bob and his Bachelor of Science in Maths degree to help you with basic spelling next time)
sfseaserpent wrote:We are laughing our asses off at that post.
I imagine the university Bob pretends he went to, isn't laughing at all. They are probably ringing their lawyers to obtain a cease & desist order. Even Bob's primary school teacher is probably going into hiding from embarrassment.

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Re: Sea Serpents in San Francisco Bay!

Post by scrmbldggs » Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:50 am

sfseaserpent wrote:Third, did you also include in your calculations the fact that once the animal builds up speed it can straighten out like an arrow and guild through the water?

Archer's guild?
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Re: Sea Serpents in San Francisco Bay!

Post by Daedalus » Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:51 am

sfseaserpent wrote:If the rear side of the "S" curve is completely under the water then what difference does it make if the "S" shape is horizontal or vertical?


Image

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Re: Sea Serpents in San Francisco Bay!

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:54 am

scrmbldggs wrote:...and from the link Poodle so kindly provided:
Update, February 2006:...- just right for a small to medium sized gull species.

http://www.dansoper.clara.co.uk/serpent/SFSS-saga.html


Absolutely. It was just two flocks of birds in the video, and as exposed in the above link. Bob and Bill have no rebuttals left.

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Re: Sea Serpents in San Francisco Bay!

Post by sfseaserpent » Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:59 am

scrmbldggs wrote:...and from the link Poodle so kindly provided:

Update, February 2006:...

Having reached a figure for the distance to the blobs, we are now in a position to measure their size. Each blob measures about 10-12 pixels in width, corresponding to the bill-to-tail length of a bird, if my interpretation of what they are is correct. Using the scale we calculated earlier, 11 pixels is half a degree. With a distance of 176', half a degree corresponds to just over 1'7" - just right for a small to medium sized gull species.

http://www.dansoper.clara.co.uk/serpent/SFSS-saga.html


Dan is not talking about the objects in our video.

Dan is talking about the two objects in the Dooley photo which Dooley said when he first saw them they were approaching from the right to the left and that it was one long object that he thought was a skull boat.

Dooley thought it would make a good addition to the photo he was taking of the Bay bridge so he waited until it was in the center of his camera viewfinder and snapped the photo.

It was not until after Dooley developed the picture and was surprised that it was not a skull boat but instead was two separate objects that Dooley contacted us because he had heard about our sightings and sent us all of the photos he took that morning as well as the negatives.

All of Dan's calculations are based on his approximation of how far away the two objects were from the camera and based on Dooley's testimony we believe the objects were further away from the camera than Dan estimated which would mean the objects are larger than Dan's calculation of their size.
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Re: Sea Serpents in San Francisco Bay!

Post by sfseaserpent » Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:08 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:...and from the link Poodle so kindly provided:
Update, February 2006:...- just right for a small to medium sized gull species.

http://www.dansoper.clara.co.uk/serpent/SFSS-saga.html


Absolutely. It was just two flocks of birds in the video, and as exposed in the above link. Bob and Bill have no rebuttals left.


Matty, as we just explained, Dan was talking about a photo that Dennis Dooley took not about our video.

It funny how Dan claims it is just birds in Dooley's photo but no bird features can be seen in either of the two objects in the Dooley photo even though Dan claims the two objects were only 176 feet away from Dooley's camera.
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Re: Sea Serpents in San Francisco Bay!

Post by scrmbldggs » Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:11 am

sfseaserpent wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:...and from the link Poodle so kindly provided:

Update, February 2006:...

Having reached a figure for the distance to the blobs, we are now in a position to measure their size. Each blob measures about 10-12 pixels in width, corresponding to the bill-to-tail length of a bird, if my interpretation of what they are is correct. Using the scale we calculated earlier, 11 pixels is half a degree. With a distance of 176', half a degree corresponds to just over 1'7" - just right for a small to medium sized gull species.

http://www.dansoper.clara.co.uk/serpent/SFSS-saga.html


Dan is not talking about the objects in our video.

No. It's just the similarity that's captivating... all of it. :mrgreen:
Last edited by scrmbldggs on Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sea Serpents in San Francisco Bay!

Post by sfseaserpent » Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:12 am

Daedalus wrote:
sfseaserpent wrote:If the rear side of the "S" curve is completely under the water then what difference does it make if the "S" shape is horizontal or vertical?


Image

Nobody should be as stupid as Shmucky and Bob.


Explain what the difference would be, Dildo.
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Re: Sea Serpents in San Francisco Bay!

Post by sfseaserpent » Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:18 am

scrmbldggs wrote:
sfseaserpent wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:...and from the link Poodle so kindly provided:

Update, February 2006:...

Having reached a figure for the distance to the blobs, we are now in a position to measure their size. Each blob measures about 10-12 pixels in width, corresponding to the bill-to-tail length of a bird, if my interpretation of what they are is correct. Using the scale we calculated earlier, 11 pixels is half a degree. With a distance of 176', half a degree corresponds to just over 1'7" - just right for a small to medium sized gull species.

http://www.dansoper.clara.co.uk/serpent/SFSS-saga.html


Dan is not talking about the objects in our video.

No. It's just the similarity that's captivating... all of it. :mrgreen:


Matty thought Dan was talking about our video and so did you.

The similarity between Dooley's photo and our video is that the objects in both the Dooley photo and our video show no bird features.
Last edited by sfseaserpent on Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sea Serpents in San Francisco Bay!

Post by scrmbldggs » Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:22 am

The twins "interpretation" of the Dooley photo



http://www.dansoper.clara.co.uk/serpent/SFSS-saga.html

You tried to match said photo to your own story... yawn
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Re: Sea Serpents in San Francisco Bay!

Post by sfseaserpent » Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:24 am

scrmbldggs wrote:
sfseaserpent wrote:Third, did you also include in your calculations the fact that once the animal builds up speed it can straighten out like an arrow and glide through the water?

Archer's guild?


The error has been corrected.

It that the best pitch you've got?
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Re: Sea Serpents in San Francisco Bay!

Post by scrmbldggs » Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:29 am

One of yours "seen in better light"...

My drawing to show how bird-like the twins' own photo of their "serpent" is.


http://www.dansoper.clara.co.uk/serpent/SFSS-saga.html
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Re: Sea Serpents in San Francisco Bay!

Post by sfseaserpent » Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:30 am

scrmbldggs wrote:
The twins "interpretation" of the Dooley photo



http://www.dansoper.clara.co.uk/serpent/SFSS-saga.html

You tried to match said photo to your own story... yawn


Where are any two birds features in those two objects?

And don't claim Dooley's photo is too blurred or taken with a lousy camera because Dooley is a professional photographer and used an expensive camera.
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Re: Sea Serpents in San Francisco Bay!

Post by moth1ne » Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:36 am

I'm waiting for sfseaserpent to say "HA! fooled yall!" "I don't believe any of this crap!" "I was just yankin the chains"...

Though that day may never come...
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Re: Sea Serpents in San Francisco Bay!

Post by sfseaserpent » Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:43 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:Lie No2) The 55 metric ton hoax creature doesn't move any water in the video
sfseaserpent wrote:That's only a snippet of our entire video.
The "snippet" is your only evidence of the creature moving and breaking through the water that you supplied as evidence.


We supplied NG with our entire original video and gave them permission to air all of it in the program.

[quote="Matthew Ellard"]The water is not moving despite a 55 ton creature breaking the surface. That's because it is really just a flock of birds flying in formation over the surface.

it is just a flock of birds flying in formation over the surface of the water then where did the flock of birds go after they followed each other into the exact same spot in the water?
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Re: Sea Serpents in San Francisco Bay!

Post by sfseaserpent » Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:45 am

moth1ne wrote:I'm waiting for sfseaserpent to say "HA! fooled yall!" "I don't believe any of this crap!" "I was just yankin the chains"...

Though that day may never come...


Don't hold your breathe.
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Re: Sea Serpents in San Francisco Bay!

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:52 am

sfseaserpent wrote:Third, did you also include in your calculations the fact that once the animal builds up speed it can straighten out like an arrow and guild through the water?
So you don't know what water resistance is either! Think of all those subs that just turn off the engines and guild glide through the water.

You also have a problem with what's called "angular momentum". I guess Bob missed that class too. If I "straighten up" a curved snake travelling at speed travelling along that curve, what happens to the mass momentum of the coils not travelling in a linear direction?

You two know absolutely nothing about physics as well as mathematics. . Here is a children's video that explains horizontal undulatory locomotion. You should watch it and learn some basics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBoZmQL4Yeo
Last edited by Matthew Ellard on Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sea Serpents in San Francisco Bay!

Post by scrmbldggs » Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:54 am

sfseaserpent wrote:We're doing all the research while scientists just sit on their asses and do nothing hoping no new evidence will be found that proves them wrong.

Is that true of your supporting scientists also?

Furthermore, a credible scientist showed that what you filmed were birds. So did others. Unless you can provide any real evidence, no one is going to take your claims seriously. No matter what you think you saw.
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Re: Sea Serpents in San Francisco Bay!

Post by Gord » Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:38 am

sfseaserpent wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:
The twins "interpretation" of the Dooley photo



http://www.dansoper.clara.co.uk/serpent/SFSS-saga.html

You tried to match said photo to your own story... yawn

Where are any two birds features in those two objects?

I would say that the wings are pretty standard bird features, wouldn't you? :lol:
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Re: Sea Serpents in San Francisco Bay!

Post by sfseaserpent » Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:40 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Now Bill's "drugs kick in"
sfseaserpent wrote: In this snippet of our video most of the animal(whatever it's size and weight) is below the surface of the water. Only small portions of the animal break the surface of the water. Its midsection where most of its weight is remains completely under the water.
How can a sea serpent, with a five foot diameter, break the water with little coils the size of a bird?


Get your facts straight. We never said the upper portion of the animal's body where the vertical undulations are being created and moving down is five feet in diameter.

We said the midsection was approximately five feet in diameter and the midsection never breaks the surface of the water.


Matthew Ellard wrote:Now Bill's "drugs go into overdrive"
sfseaserpent wrote: If its birds flying above the surface of the water then how is it possible for all the birds to dive into the exact same spot in the water without displacing any water?
They don't. You forgot that your video had to be stabilized by Grant Fredericks because you forgot to use the tripod. The birds are skimming over the water following a school of fish. The two groups of birds separate, but you forgot that too. Do sea serpent's break in half like a flock of birds?


We already explained why we didn't bring a tripod with us that day.

Your university(if you even went to college) English professor or your high school(if you even went to high school} English teacher would be very disappointed in your poor reading comprehension skills.

The line of objects doesn't split off into two groups.

As the animal makes the radical turn, the line of black objects follow each other into the exact same spot in the water. That's something which is IMPOSSIBLE for a flock of birds flying in a straight line above the water to do.

Matthew Ellard wrote:Bill's "Evidence" video / Fast forward to 44mins.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqMaMiomMnE


Lie No3) "Coils" behind the creature like "sea monster"
sfseaserpent wrote: If the rear side of the "S" curve is completely under the water then what difference does it make if the "S" shape is horizontal or vertical?

If half the coils are in the water. The other half are pushed into the air to push against "nothing".


But we were just told that it is the rear end of the "S" curve that does the pushing.

Which is it?

Rarely does half of the vertical "S" curve break the surface of the water. Usually only a small portion of the top of the vertical "S" curve breaks the surface of the water and the midsection where most of the animal's weight is never breaks the surface of the water when the animal is swimming.

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:However in old maps this horizontal motion is artistically represented as vertical in sea monsters.
sfseaserpent wrote:How do you know that is the case?
Because no living creature on earth uses vertical undulatory motion as it doesn't work.


Your bias is showing.

Tell the animal we saw swimming in that manner that it's impossible for it to swim that way.

Matthew Ellard wrote:Secondly because medieval map artists are not going to paint an underwater creature that can't be seen on the map they are illustrating. The creatures were medieval inventions and signed by the cartographer.


Your proof is "because I think so"?


Matthew Ellard wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:Bob and Bill don't know basic mathematics or physics..."
sfseaserpent wrote: Bob has a Bachelor of Science degree in Mathematics and Bill completed four years of college and you claim neither of us know basic mathematics or physics.
Neither of you know rudimentary mathematics, which is obvious from the thread. I have high level mathematics degrees required for econometrics, statistics and auditing. Bob couldn't determine the area of a one meter square. You can't even spell basic words like "ridiculous".


And you can't even comprehend what you read.

Oh, you found one or two words we spelled wrong in 133 pages.

Do you want to have a spelling error war now?

It will be very easy for us to point out your spelling errors in the future.


Matthew Ellard wrote:
sfseaserpent wrote: We never said these animals swim with half their bodies out of the water.
The coil is part of the same animal. The animal moves by pushing its entire body along the same coils against the water. If a coil is in the air, the whole creatures body will follow that coil.


So what.

As we explained which you can't seem to comprehend, Half of the animal isn't out of the water when it creates verticle undulations to move.

Usually only a small portion of the top of the vertical undulation breaks the surface of the water.


Matthew Ellard wrote:Am I correct in assuming you don't even know what undulating motion is in snakes or how it works?


No.

Matthew Ellard wrote:
sfseaserpent wrote:We're referring to an earlier portion of our video which is not included in that snippet of our video.
Well then load her up on You tube and let's start a full analysis together. We can apply Kelvin Wake speed calculators and other photo analysis techniques to determine speed, displacement, mass, buoyancy and other bits of information.


Why don't you contact Paiva and discuss all that with him.

He can tell you if he used Kevin Wake speed calculators and the other photo analysis techniques he used in his in-depth analysis of our entire video.

Hell, we have a better idea.

Why don't you read Paiva's entire written documentation that explains how and why he came to his conclusion?

He mentions everything he used in his in-depth analysis of our entire video.

Or are you afraid to do that?
Last edited by sfseaserpent on Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sea Serpents in San Francisco Bay!

Post by sfseaserpent » Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:44 am

Gord wrote:
sfseaserpent wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:
The twins "interpretation" of the Dooley photo



http://www.dansoper.clara.co.uk/serpent/SFSS-saga.html

You tried to match said photo to your own story... yawn

Where are any two birds features in those two objects?

I would say that the wings are pretty standard bird features, wouldn't you? :lol:


Where are the bird wings in the Dooley photo?

Even Dan had to draw a picture of how he thinks birds fit into the two black objects because he couldn't actually see any bird wings in Dooley's photo.
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Re: Sea Serpents in San Francisco Bay!

Post by JO 753 » Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:51 am

I wonder if its possible to take a short film clip thats very low rez and combine all the framez with sum sorta al gore rythm into a clear pik.

Pyrrho?

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Re: Sea Serpents in San Francisco Bay!

Post by sfseaserpent » Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:58 am

scrmbldggs wrote:
sfseaserpent wrote:We're doing all the research while scientists just sit on their asses and do nothing hoping no new evidence will be found that proves them wrong.

Is that true of your supporting scientists also?


At least our supporting scientists did an in-depth analysis of our entire video and provided written documentation explaining how and why they reached their conclusion so that other experts can verify whether they are correct.

What did Fredericks do?

He just relied on Occam's Razor, provided no written documentation and refused to answer any questions.

scrmbldggs wrote:Furthermore, a credible scientist showed that what you filmed were birds.


Fredericks did not say it was only birds in our video.

All he did was rely on Occam's Razor and said the objects in our video are "probably birds".

However, you're going to continue to lie and say that Fredericks said it "was birds" not that he actually said it was "probably birds".


scrmbldggs wrote:So did others.


What others?

you and the other skeptics on this site?

Pssssh!
Last edited by sfseaserpent on Thu Oct 17, 2013 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sea Serpents in San Francisco Bay!

Post by scrmbldggs » Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:03 am

sfseaserpent wrote:We said the midsection was approximately five feet in diameter and the midsection never breaks the surface of the water.

Ahh... a phantom pregnancy and phantom water breaking. That explains the speed and writhing... :mrgreen:
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Re: Sea Serpents in San Francisco Bay!

Post by scrmbldggs » Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:07 am

sfseaserpent wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:
sfseaserpent wrote:We're doing all the research while scientists just sit on their asses and do nothing hoping no new evidence will be found that proves them wrong.

Is that true of your supporting scientists also?


At least our supporting scientists did an in-depth analysis of our entire video and provided written documentation explaining how and why they reached their conclusion so that other experts can verify whether they are correct.

And now they're sitting on their asses doing nothing hoping no new evidence will be found that proves them wrong?

Pssssh!

Your phantom water breaking, too? :shock:
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