Earliest recorded UFO sightings

[Matthew Ellard]

They coud also be Atlanteanz, lizard overlordz, humanz from the future, crosstime vizitorz, Morlocks, the CHUDz uv anchient Egypt, Doc Brown, Doc Who...

Yet they are simply the moon and the sun, in the positions they appear in the Bible's written description of the Crucifixion of Jesus......in a painting called "The Crucifixion of Jesus" .

Why would Giotto, or Michelangelo or any other Christian artist , 1000 years later, paint "alien lizards", instead of the moon and sun, in his painting the "Crucifixion of Jesus" and get arrested for heresy. Why not just paint a picture of the alien lizards on their own?

Sun and moon 8.jpg

[Gawdzilla Sama]

No fair using logic!

[JO 753]

but is not as with "and not mention spacecraft in any other way"===>aka the main point of the rebut, not the preamble.

Not sure, but you seem to mean that the Bible never sez 'spasecraft'.

Bekuz they had no consept uv spase ships or any advansed teknolojy. This iz the basis for the entire debate - are portionz uv the Bible accounts uv alien vizitation az interpretted by low-tek humanz?

[JO 753]

So why aliens in particular? Why should we believe that they are extraterrestrial and not just something from around here?

Good kwestion.

It seemz unlikely that we woud not hav stumbled across a hidden sivilization by now. Even a fallen wun, like in the Atlantis story woud hav left tonz uv fizikl evidens.

It iz possible a sivilization coud hav developed the tek to hide themselvez, but if youre offering that az an alternativ to extraterrestrialz, wuts the point?

I liv in Wauconda and I can verify there iz no futuristic tek here. Sertainly no impenitrable invizability dome like Black Panther'z Wakanda.

[Matthew Ellard]

......but you seem to mean that the Bible never sez 'spasecraft'. Bekuz they had no consept uv spase ships or any advansed teknolojy.

The Bible story specifically says the "Sun" and the "Moon". I quoted it. That's why we know they are the sun and the moon.

Sun and moon 6.jpg

You do realise the whole point of the crucifixion story was the moon blocking out the sun? It would be a odd painting of the crucifixion if the artist left the sun and the moon out, but included alien flying saucers that no one mentioned in the Bible.......don't you think?

[JO 753]

No Joe 753 there were no witnesses and no one drew any pictures, There was no paper in 36AD.

I call that a Matticism. Only true in a manner that is completely irrelevant and diversionary.......

As you are a complete idiot, you just worked out there was no pen and paper in 36AD and no one drew images of what they were looking at. The first actual image of Jesus on the cross was a wall carving from the second century AD.

You really are a stupid as Jo 753.

So Bobbo. Show us a drawing of Jesus from 36AD.

Debunked

[Matthew Ellard]

It iz possible a sivilization coud hav developed the tek to hide themselvez,

..... and their water usage, agricultural lands, waste dumps, dams, buildings, bones....... and they were so high tech, they simply died out. (Which makes no sense)

[Matthew Ellard]

Debunked

Jo 753. They didn't have pens to draw with, and Jerusalem isn't in China.

Are you going to show me a drawing on paper, from Jerusalem in 36 AD to prove me wrong?

[bobbo_the_Pragmatist]

No Joe 753 there were no witnesses and no one drew any pictures, There was no paper in 36AD.

I call that a Matticism. Only true in a manner that is completely irrelevant and diversionary.......

As you are a complete idiot, you just worked out there was no pen and paper in 36AD and no one drew images of what they were looking at. The first actual image of Jesus on the cross was a wall carving from the second century AD.


You really are a stupid as Jo 753.

So Bobbo. Show us a drawing of Jesus from 36AD.

There was pen and paper in 36 ad. By todays conventions, we call that ocher with stylus and papyrus. Same thing. If anyone drew Jebus, its been lost to history until the next round of found documents shows up. It strikes me like UFO's in medieval paintings, once we find a label, its easy to find Matticisms everywhere we look.

matticism: ignoring the obvious and focusing on the irrelevant.

[Matthew Ellard]

Bobbo. Show me a pen and paper drawing from Jerusalem in 36 AD?

You can't can you. It is that simple.

As you are a true idiot, you also didn't realise that the image of the cross also didn't exist until after 200AD. All the imagery in the renaissance paintings, more than a thousand years later, are based on the narrative of the Bible.

[bobbo_the_Pragmatist]

Matt: by pen and paper do you mean to include or exclude ocher with stylus and papyrus or not? Your Matticisms don't make this clear.

[Matthew Ellard]

Matt: by pen and paper do you mean to include or exclude ocher with stylus and papyrus or not? Your Matticisms don't make this clear.

You really are a total idiot.
"A stylus, plural styli or styluses, is a writing utensil

Draw me a picture of a UFO using a stylus Bobbo, so I can laugh at you some more.

[bobbo_the_Pragmatist]

Matt: by pen and paper do you mean to include or exclude ocher with stylus and papyrus or not? Your Matticisms don't make this clear.

You really are a total idiot.
"A stylus, plural styli or styluses, is a writing utensil

Draw me a picture of a UFO using a stylus Bobbo, so I can laugh at you some more.

HAH!!!! Well there is Matticism No2: Never answering a direct question instead of clearing up an obvious ambiguity, go for the personal insult and change the subject instead. Not well done, as much as too much Matt.

Q-19: Matt: by pen and paper do you mean to include or exclude ocher with stylus and papyrus or not? Your Matticisms don't make this clear.

[JO 753]

Debunked

Jo 753. They didn't have pens to draw with, and Jerusalem isn't in China.

Are you going to show me a drawing on paper, from Jerusalem in 36 AD to prove me wrong?

I cant do that spesificly, but I can pound the debunk into the dirt with The Ded Sea Scrollz!

Most of the texts use Hebrew, with some written in Aramaic (for example the Son of God text; in different regional dialects, including Nabataean), and a few in Greek.[7] Discoveries from the Judaean Desert add Latin (from Masada) and Arabic (from Khirbet al-Mird) texts.[8] Most of the texts are written on parchment, some on papyrus, and one on copper.

(edited to ad quote from Wikipedia)

[Matthew Ellard]

Matt: by pen and paper do you mean to include or exclude ocher with stylus and papyrus or not?

You cannot draw images of flying saucers with a stylus. It is for writing words, you complete idiot.

Soooooo you are unable to find one example of an eyewitness drawing from Jerusalem in 36 AD. I already knew that.

Have you two geniuses worked out that the renaissance painters in 1300 AD in Europe weren't actually in Jerusalem in 36AD?

[bobbo_the_Pragmatist]

Matt: by pen and paper do you mean to include or exclude ocher with stylus and papyrus or not?

You cannot draw images of flying saucers with a stylus. It is for writing words, you complete idiot.

I didn't know that. Can you confirm: a stylus can write a word but cannot make an image? What is the inhibiting issue? Is this another Matticism? Tell me it ain't so???

[Matthew Ellard]

I cant do that spesificly, but I can pound the debunk into the dirt with The Ded Sea Scrollz!

Jo 753, You idiot, The Dead Sea scrolls aren't pictures. They a words ( what we call "writing").

Have you found an eye witness drawing from 36 AD yet? That's a big no right?

[Matthew Ellard]

I didn't know that.

Find me a eyewitness picture from 36AD drawn with a stylus. I've been waiting .

[JO 753]

Yes. I see your point. Even tho there wuz paper, papyrus, parchment and a variety uv substansez and toolz for making marks with them, JO cant find a sample on the interwebz uv anybody back then drawing a picture, therefor it never happened and therefor, no ancient UFOz.

[bobbo_the_Pragmatist]

I didn't know that.

Find me a eyewitness picture from 36AD drawn with a stylus. I've been waiting .

Q19B: Can you confirm: a stylus can write a word but cannot make an image? What is the inhibiting issue? Is this another Matticism? Tell me it ain't so???

[Matthew Ellard]

Can you confirm: a stylus can write a word but cannot make an image?

Soooo....... you still can't find an eyewitness drawing from 36 AD using a stylus? That's a real bummer for you and Jo 753

Soooooo.....have you worked out that the Renaissance painters in Europe in 1300AD, weren't actually eyewitnesses in Jerusalem in 36AD? Would you like me to draw you some cartoons so you can understand this?

[bobbo_the_Pragmatist]

We used to have an excellent beer pub in my neighborhood. It had a 2 x 20 ffoot Egyptian hieroglyph over the Bar from 5ooo years ago which was a recipe for brewing beer.

matt: as 19C: are you saying that hieroglyphs are not "picture" enough in your Matrix of Matticisms? Is that what you MeanMatt?

[Matthew Ellard]

JO cant find a sample on the interwebz uv anybody back then drawing a picture, therefor it never happened and therefor, no ancient UFOz.

So why did you lie and claim these eyewitness drawings (which don't exist) actually exist?

Why do you claim a painting of the sun and the moon, specifically mentioned and called the sun and the moon in the Bible narrative is actually a flying saucer?

[Matthew Ellard]

matt: as 19C: are you saying that hieroglyphs are not "picture" enough in your Matrix of Matticisms?

] Firstly hieroglyphs are not eyewitness drawings, you complete idiot. They are words copied by scribes. Secondly, The sun and the moon in renaissance paintings are not hieroglyphs but paintings of the sun and the moon.

Sun and moon 8.jpg

[bobbo_the_Pragmatist]

What tools were used to make hieroglyphics?
Stone workers in ancient Egypt used hand-held stone tools for carving text, which were replaced in later eras with implements of copper, bronze and finally iron after 1000 B.C. The ancient Egyptians used brushes and pens made from reeds to write on papyrus paper.
Writing Materials in Ancient Egypt | Synonym
https://classroom.synonym.com/writing-m ... 11768.html

Oh gee....................what Matticism will follow? I label it No 4 and no doubt will refer to it often.

[JO 753]

He'z doing the Matt Rope-A-Dope now! Go for the ribz!

[landrew]

We only know about what we find in the tombs. We know next to nothing about the day to day life of the average Egyptian.

[bobbo_the_Pragmatist]

We only know about what we find in the tombs. We know next to nothing about the day to day life of the average Egyptian.

What we find in the tombs very much documents the day to day life of all facets of Egyptian Life.....including the free space ship rides every Wednesday equinox.

[landrew]

We only know about what we find in the tombs. We know next to nothing about the day to day life of the average Egyptian.

What we find in the tombs very much documents the day to day life of all facets of Egyptian Life.....including the free space ship rides every Wednesday equinox.

Unlikely. The Pharoahs told the story they wanted to be portrayed. Probably nothing like the real story. History means "His Story."

[bobbo_the_Pragmatist]

The daily life in ancient Egypt was actually much different than the vision that commonly comes to mind. Relics found in archaeological digs as well as paintings and drawings on pyramid and tomb walls depict images of life in ancient Egypt that was, in some regards, not that much different than life in Egypt today.

https://www.ancient-egypt-online.com/da ... egypt.html

[Gord]

Note the 'alien in a spaceship' in the upper right corner.

Just for the record, that site updates daily with new images. The one to which you were referring was this one in particular: https://comicskingdom.com/bizarro/2019-02-10

[Gord]

History means "His Story."

More accurately, it means "relation of incidents" (true or false), and stems from Old French estoire, estorie "story; chronicle, history" (12c., Modern French histoire), from Latin historia "narrative of past events, account, tale, story," from Greek historia "a learning or knowing by inquiry; an account of one's inquiries, history, record, narrative," from historein "inquire," from histōr "wise man, judge," from PIE *wid-tor-, from root *weid- "to see."

But, sure. The records are dominated by males.

[landrew]

History means "His Story."

More accurately, it means "relation of incidents" (true or false), and stems from Old French estoire, estorie "story; chronicle, history" (12c., Modern French histoire), from Latin historia "narrative of past events, account, tale, story," from Greek historia "a learning or knowing by inquiry; an account of one's inquiries, history, record, narrative," from historein "inquire," from histōr "wise man, judge," from PIE *wid-tor-, from root *weid- "to see."

But, sure. The records are dominated by males.

I can read a dictionary, Gord, but wiser men than ourselves have said that history is full of lies, distortions and anything imaginable to serve whatever agenda they may have had at the time.

[bobbo_the_Pragmatist]

I can read a dictionary, Gord, but wiser men than ourselves have said that history is full of lies, distortions and anything imaginable to serve whatever agenda they may have had at the time.

Why do you think they said that?

[Gord]

History means "His Story."

More accurately, it means "relation of incidents" (true or false), and stems from Old French estoire, estorie "story; chronicle, history" (12c., Modern French histoire), from Latin historia "narrative of past events, account, tale, story," from Greek historia "a learning or knowing by inquiry; an account of one's inquiries, history, record, narrative," from historein "inquire," from histōr "wise man, judge," from PIE *wid-tor-, from root *weid- "to see."

But, sure. The records are dominated by males.

I can read a dictionary, Gord

Yeah but now you don't have to 'cause I posted it within easy reach of everyone reading! Isn't that grand of me?

...but wiser men than ourselves--

You're just guessing!

--have said that history is full of lies, distortions and anything imaginable to serve whatever agenda they may have had at the time.

Hasn't everyone said that?

[Matthew Ellard]

We only know about what we find in the tombs. We know next to nothing about the day to day life of the average Egyptian.

Again this is complete crap. The wall reliefs in mausoleums included the everyday workers who would look after the deceased in the after life. Here is a scribe with his hot wax tablet and stylus.

Egyptian scribe.jpg

[Gawdzilla Sama]

We've excavated the villages where the quarry workers lived while working on the public works. We know how much beer they got each day.

[landrew]

We only know about what we find in the tombs. We know next to nothing about the day to day life of the average Egyptian.

Again this is complete crap. The wall reliefs in mausoleums included the everyday workers who would look after the deceased in the after life. Here is a scribe with his hot wax tablet and stylus. Egyptian scribe.jpg

That's BS. What you see is what someone wanted people to see. It's no more realistic than learning about the Pleistocene by watching the Flintstones.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

LOL

[Matthew Ellard]

Timeline.jpg

THE GREATEST "BS" STORY EVER TOLD by Jo753 and Bobbo
Once upon a time in 36AD, a Palestinian scribe just happens to be walking through the execution hill for Jesus and other criminals, carrying his wet clay plate and stylus. Although all the other witnesses note and write that they saw the moon blacking out the sun, our scribe doesn't notice this but notices two spaceships flying behind Jesus and the other criminals. Our scribe magically draws an "eyewitness picture" using a tool for writing words on the clay.

"I will never write this down or tell anyone for 1350 years" says the scribe. "I will leave my clay tablet for an Italian painter, in Europe, 2000 miles away, who can't speak Aramaic, so they will copy my drawings and include them in a Renaissance painting of the "Crucifixion of Jesus".

Thankfully, Michelangelo, 1314 years later, who had never been to Palestine found the clay tablet and included paintings of the space ships. When the Pope asked "Where is the sun and the moon, that signifies the death of Jesus, in the painting I commissioned?" Michelangelo, replied "Well,....i found this magical clay tablet with weird letter drawings on it, that I can't read, so I used that for inspiration .

Next week our new story will be
THE FLYING SAUCER CODE FROM JESUS TO DA VINCI : UNBELIEVABLE