Ancient bread

A skeptical look at medical practices
User avatar
Lance Kennedy
Has No Life
Posts: 12764
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:20 pm
Custom Title: Super Skeptic
Location: Paradise, New Zealand

Ancient bread

Post by Lance Kennedy » Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:36 am

According to ScienceDaily some 14,400 year old bread has been discovered in Jordan. This predates agriculture, showing that cereals were food long before they were cultivated. It is quite possible that harvesting wild wheat was what led to planting wild wheat, and the beginnings of agriculture.

It also makes a nonsense of the so-called paleo diet, which bans wheat products. If wheat has been made into bread and eaten almost 15,000 years ago, it is also a paleo food.

User avatar
Poodle
True Skeptic
Posts: 10684
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 9:12 pm
Custom Title: Post-bloom
Location: NE corner of my living room

Re: Ancient bread

Post by Poodle » Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:45 am

Not only wheat, Lance, but barley too. And we should all know what can be easily made from barley. A Palaeolithic sandwich and beer party sounds pretty civilised to me. Who needs cultivation, eh?

User avatar
landrew
True Skeptic
Posts: 10511
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:51 am

Re: Ancient bread

Post by landrew » Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:05 pm

Poodle wrote:Not only wheat, Lance, but barley too. And we should all know what can be easily made from barley. A Palaeolithic sandwich and beer party sounds pretty civilised to me. Who needs cultivation, eh?
Before it was called "wheat" it was called "corn." In the new world "Indian corn" became just "corn." "Barleycorn," was "barely corn," or not very good corn, but it grew where wheat did poorly, particularly in northern Europe and during the mini Ice Age of the 15th and 16th centuries. Barley was never considered as good as wheat. It contains different proteins which lower the nutrition level and can cause constipation.
Throughout much of Europe, fields in the south contained a higher percentage of wheat, while northern fields contained a higher percentage of barley. The wealthy preferred wheat over barley, which was relegated to the lower classes until potatoes began to replace it in the 18th and 19th centuries.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

User avatar
landrew
True Skeptic
Posts: 10511
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:51 am

Re: Ancient bread

Post by landrew » Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:59 pm

Poodle wrote:Not only wheat, Lance, but barley too. And we should all know what can be easily made from barley. A Palaeolithic sandwich and beer party sounds pretty civilised to me. Who needs cultivation, eh?
Beer is the peasants' revenge against the wheat-eating, wine-drinking elite.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

User avatar
Gord
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 34656
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:44 am
Custom Title: prostrate spurge
Location: Transcona

Re: Ancient bread

Post by Gord » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:06 pm

The part about "corn" is true, it comes from the same root-word as "grain" and just meant "a small seed". Some other Germanic languages still call all grains "korn", like German and (I think?) Norwegian. (Well, Old Norse did, anyway.)

But this part:
landrew wrote:"Barleycorn," was "barely corn," or not very good corn....
That sounds like a folk etymology, but let me double-check.

https://www.etymonline.com/word/barley
barley (n.)

hardy cereal plant, Old English bærlic, apparently originally an adjective, "of barley," from bere "barley" (from Proto-Germanic *bariz, *baraz) + -lic "body, like." First element is related to Old Norse barr "barley," and cognate with Latin far (genitive farris) "coarse grain, meal" (see farina).
https://www.etymonline.com/word/farina? ... sreference
farina (n.)

1707, "dust, powdery substance," from Latin farina "ground wheat, flour, meal," from far (genitive farris) "husked wheat, emmer; grain, flour," from Proto-Italic *fars "flour," from PIE *bhars-, with cognates in Old Irish bairgen "bread, loaf," Welsh bara "bread," Serbo-Croatian brašno "flour, food," Latvian bariba "food," Gothic barizeins "from barley," Old Norse barr "grain," Old English bere "barley;" according to de Vaan perhaps a loan-word from a non-IE language.
https://www.etymonline.com/word/barleycorn
barleycorn (n.)

"barley," late 14c., from barley + corn (n.1). Perhaps to distinguish the barley plant or the grain from its products. In Britain and U.S., the grain is used mainly to prepare liquor, hence personification of malt liquor as John Barleycorn (1620) in popular ballads, and many now-obsolete figures of speech, such as to wear a barley cap (16c.) "to be drunk."
Yay!

So to recap: Barley and farina are from the same root word, which is very old and reaches back to the Proto Indo-European language family, and isn't related to the word barely, which comes from PIE *bhoso- "naked".

I love word origins. :heart: I could read etymologies all day long. In fact, I have! I own a few books on etymologies, and I've read them each cover-to-cover more than once.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE
Is Trump in jail yet?

User avatar
landrew
True Skeptic
Posts: 10511
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:51 am

Re: Ancient bread

Post by landrew » Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:10 am

Sounds plausible, but I think it's likely that the name was corrupted by peasants to "barely" over the years, rather than following the etymology of archaic terms.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

User avatar
Gord
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 34656
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:44 am
Custom Title: prostrate spurge
Location: Transcona

Re: Ancient bread

Post by Gord » Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:29 am

Try to keep an open mind, dude. :P
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE
Is Trump in jail yet?

User avatar
Poodle
True Skeptic
Posts: 10684
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 9:12 pm
Custom Title: Post-bloom
Location: NE corner of my living room

Re: Ancient bread

Post by Poodle » Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:04 am

Barleycorn = 1/3 inch. It's a Anglo-Saxon unit of measurement used because ripe corns (seeds) of barley tend to be pretty much identical in size

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_units

User avatar
scrmbldggs
Real Skeptic
Posts: 27010
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 7:55 am
Location: sometimes

Re: Ancient bread

Post by scrmbldggs » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:26 am

If it's a unit, shouldn't it be a unicorn? :nuts:
.
Lard, save me from your followers.

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Real Skeptic
Posts: 23399
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: Ancient bread

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:55 am

scrmbldggs wrote:If it's a unit, shouldn't it be a unicorn? :nuts:
Don't be a unitard.
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"
WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
scrmbldggs
Real Skeptic
Posts: 27010
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 7:55 am
Location: sometimes

Re: Ancient bread

Post by scrmbldggs » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:59 am

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:If it's a unit, shouldn't it be a unicorn? :nuts:
Don't be a unitard.
Definitely not at my unitage!
.
Lard, save me from your followers.

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Real Skeptic
Posts: 23399
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: Ancient bread

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:53 am

scrmbldggs wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:If it's a unit, shouldn't it be a unicorn? :nuts:
Don't be a unitard.
Definitely not at my unitage!
That's the problem with broad-band poets, they're universal.
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"
WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
landrew
True Skeptic
Posts: 10511
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:51 am

Re: Ancient bread

Post by landrew » Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:07 pm

Gord wrote:Try to keep an open mind, dude. :P
But my brains might fall out. :roll:
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

User avatar
Gord
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 34656
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:44 am
Custom Title: prostrate spurge
Location: Transcona

Re: Ancient bread

Post by Gord » Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:04 am

landrew wrote:
Gord wrote:Try to keep an open mind, dude. :P
But my brains might fall out. :roll:
Image
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE
Is Trump in jail yet?

User avatar
Lance Kennedy
Has No Life
Posts: 12764
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:20 pm
Custom Title: Super Skeptic
Location: Paradise, New Zealand

Re: Ancient bread

Post by Lance Kennedy » Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:02 am

Poodle wrote:Barleycorn = 1/3 inch. It's a Anglo-Saxon unit of measurement used because ripe corns (seeds) of barley tend to be pretty much identical in size
Still in use. Standard British shoe sizes come from barleycorns. If you take size 12 shoes, it is because your foot is 12 barleycorns long.

User avatar
TJrandom
Has No Life
Posts: 11528
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:55 am
Custom Title: Salt of the earth
Location: Pacific coast outside of Tokyo bay.

Re: Ancient bread

Post by TJrandom » Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:33 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:
Poodle wrote:Barleycorn = 1/3 inch. It's a Anglo-Saxon unit of measurement used because ripe corns (seeds) of barley tend to be pretty much identical in size
Still in use. Standard British shoe sizes come from barleycorns. If you take size 12 shoes, it is because your foot is 12 barleycorns long.
What? 12 * 1/3 inch = 4 inches. Hardly a size 12.

User avatar
Lance Kennedy
Has No Life
Posts: 12764
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:20 pm
Custom Title: Super Skeptic
Location: Paradise, New Zealand

Re: Ancient bread

Post by Lance Kennedy » Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:38 am

Sorry. My mistake. A barleycorn is a third of an inch, and size 12 is 3 times 12 barleycorns. I should have double checked my reference. Careless.

Of course TJ was assiduous. Grrr !

User avatar
Phoenix76
Poster
Posts: 426
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:16 am
Custom Title: Phoenix76
Location: Qld, Australia

Re: Ancient bread

Post by Phoenix76 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:45 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:According to ScienceDaily some 14,400 year old bread has been discovered in Jordan. This predates agriculture, showing that cereals were food long before they were cultivated. It is quite possible that harvesting wild wheat was what led to planting wild wheat, and the beginnings of agriculture.

It also makes a nonsense of the so-called paleo diet, which bans wheat products. If wheat has been made into bread and eaten almost 15,000 years ago, it is also a paleo food.
Very interesting Lance, and basically correct.

Your incorrect assumption is to the "Paleo Diet". The wheat you describe above, bares no resemblance to the "Wheat" we see and understand today. Very different things.

Apparently way back 14,000 years ago, or whatever, the wheat crossed by nature with another breed and double its gene pack. This happened several times in the wild. Once man decided to get scientific, he started playing with genes although, not GM. End result today is, we basically have one brand of wheat worldwide, that bears no resemblance to what our paleo forebears would eat.

So the Paleo theory is that if they could obtain the original wheat/seed, that would fit their beliefs. So yes, we have been eating wheat products for 14,000 years, BUT, it is a very different wheat.

User avatar
Lance Kennedy
Has No Life
Posts: 12764
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:20 pm
Custom Title: Super Skeptic
Location: Paradise, New Zealand

Re: Ancient bread

Post by Lance Kennedy » Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:49 am

The paleo diet is not that careful. It bans grains. All grains.

User avatar
Gord
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 34656
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:44 am
Custom Title: prostrate spurge
Location: Transcona

Re: Ancient bread

Post by Gord » Mon Jul 23, 2018 1:45 pm

Phoenix76 wrote:So yes, we have been eating wheat products for 14,000 years, BUT, it is a very different wheat.
Jeez, how old ARE you people!
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE
Is Trump in jail yet?

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Real Skeptic
Posts: 23399
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: Ancient bread

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Jul 23, 2018 1:58 pm

Gord wrote:
Phoenix76 wrote:So yes, we have been eating wheat products for 14,000 years, BUT, it is a very different wheat.
Jeez, how old ARE you people!
Some of us are as old as that joke. :roll:
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"
WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
Austin Harper
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5493
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:22 pm
Custom Title: Rock Chalk Astrohawk
Location: Detroit

Re: Ancient bread

Post by Austin Harper » Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:04 pm

landrew wrote:Sounds plausible, but I think it's likely that the name was corrupted by peasants to "barely" over the years, rather than following the etymology of archaic terms.
I think you've misunderstood the direction etymology follows. It traces backwards where modern words come from, it doesn't prescribe what direction words should take in the future.
Dum ratio nos ducet, valebimus et multa bene geremus.

User avatar
landrew
True Skeptic
Posts: 10511
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:51 am

Re: Ancient bread

Post by landrew » Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:18 pm

Austin Harper wrote:
landrew wrote:Sounds plausible, but I think it's likely that the name was corrupted by peasants to "barely" over the years, rather than following the etymology of archaic terms.
I think you've misunderstood the direction etymology follows. It traces backwards where modern words come from, it doesn't prescribe what direction words should take in the future.
Yes, but who really knows for sure? Some of the best etymologies are just a guess.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

User avatar
Austin Harper
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5493
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:22 pm
Custom Title: Rock Chalk Astrohawk
Location: Detroit

Re: Ancient bread

Post by Austin Harper » Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:55 pm

Sometimes, but there are written accounts of bærlic and corn becoming barley and corn, so this is pretty clear.
Dum ratio nos ducet, valebimus et multa bene geremus.

User avatar
Phoenix76
Poster
Posts: 426
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:16 am
Custom Title: Phoenix76
Location: Qld, Australia

Re: Ancient bread

Post by Phoenix76 » Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:20 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:The paleo diet is not that careful. It bans grains. All grains.
Quite correct Lance. But that's another story for a different thread than this one. I would love to debate the pros and cons of Paleo, but knowing this forum, the debate would turn to crap very quickly. Just look at the responses from Gourd & GS. If that is intelligent debate, then I'll go back to kindergarten, they could argue better than many on this forum.

Why do you think I "stir the possum" so much on here? Why do I love making Bobbo have coronaries? Cant' hold a good debate, so might as well shitstir. Of course, I could just bugger off, and make the bobbo's of the forum happy.

Sure this is a skeptics forum. That means, that we are going to hold many differing views. That then means, that we should should have very lively debates where we support our arguments with some sort of facts or reference material. It happens sometimes, but not often enough. Unfortunately, when I argue down your theory, where you have produced supporting evidence, the normal response is to just dig in behind your evidence (because it is the correct answer) and refuse to debate the contrary evidence put forth.

Lance, I'm a forensic accountant/researcher, and a lot of what I read here that purports to support a theory is absolutely crap. I don't expect everyone to have my skill sets, they have taken many years to develop. And there must certainly be others here with skill sets far superior to mine, I would love to debate with them. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening on this forum.

Cheers Y'all

User avatar
Poodle
True Skeptic
Posts: 10684
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 9:12 pm
Custom Title: Post-bloom
Location: NE corner of my living room

Re: Ancient bread

Post by Poodle » Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:35 am

Bad punctuation there, Phoenix76.

User avatar
TJrandom
Has No Life
Posts: 11528
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:55 am
Custom Title: Salt of the earth
Location: Pacific coast outside of Tokyo bay.

Re: Ancient bread

Post by TJrandom » Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:58 am

I just want to point out that Paleo or not, food turns to crap very quickly. :roll: I do hope I am not called upon to defend this with a link to a peer reviewed article. 8-)

User avatar
Gord
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 34656
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:44 am
Custom Title: prostrate spurge
Location: Transcona

Re: Ancient bread

Post by Gord » Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:30 am

Phoenix76 wrote:
Lance Kennedy wrote:The paleo diet is not that careful. It bans grains. All grains.
Quite correct Lance. But that's another story for a different thread than this one.
"Ancient bread" seems like a perfectly good place to debate the paleo diet.

Seems to me that there was no "paleo diet" back in the paleolithic. People ate whatever they found. Some people ate a lot of grains as they ripened, then very little if any grains afterwards.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE
Is Trump in jail yet?

User avatar
Lance Kennedy
Has No Life
Posts: 12764
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:20 pm
Custom Title: Super Skeptic
Location: Paradise, New Zealand

Re: Ancient bread

Post by Lance Kennedy » Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:09 pm

That is too damn sensible, Gord. Unfair tactics when arguing with people who lack that sense.

User avatar
landrew
True Skeptic
Posts: 10511
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:51 am

Re: Ancient bread

Post by landrew » Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:49 pm

Cereal grains are actually not so healthy. They irritate the colon in most people. Better grains and rice are healthier.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

User avatar
Lance Kennedy
Has No Life
Posts: 12764
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:20 pm
Custom Title: Super Skeptic
Location: Paradise, New Zealand

Re: Ancient bread

Post by Lance Kennedy » Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:13 pm

White rice and white flour, and their products, are definitely unhealthy. Whole grains are much better.

Actually, when you look up brown (wholegrain) rice, you will see that it is not too much better than white rice.

User avatar
TJrandom
Has No Life
Posts: 11528
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:55 am
Custom Title: Salt of the earth
Location: Pacific coast outside of Tokyo bay.

Re: Ancient bread

Post by TJrandom » Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:37 am

Sorry Lance, but rice - even white polished rice, is not unhealthy (not conducive to good health). Millions have thrived on a diet based upon it for generations. Of course there may be more healthy foods on the market, but not necessarily with the properties that would suggest a replacement - such as availability for the masses, climate adaptation, storage life, versatility, cultural affinity, etc.

Do you have an alternate in mind that fits the necessary properties, or would you suggest that people who consume it should simply drop this item from their diet without replacement in order to obtain better health?

User avatar
Lance Kennedy
Has No Life
Posts: 12764
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:20 pm
Custom Title: Super Skeptic
Location: Paradise, New Zealand

Re: Ancient bread

Post by Lance Kennedy » Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:56 am

TJ

The fact that people have done something for a long time does not prove it is good. Think of 10,000 years of African witch doctors.

Rice, even brown rice, has too little fiber in it to be healthy. That does not mean that it cannot be eaten safely, of course. It just means that it needs to be eaten in smaller quantities.

If you are looking for alternatives, you need to look at starch products with high fiber content such as wholegrain breads, and some root vegetables. Of course, the other way of adding fiber to the meal is to add lots of other vegetables, and especially leafy green veges.

User avatar
TJrandom
Has No Life
Posts: 11528
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:55 am
Custom Title: Salt of the earth
Location: Pacific coast outside of Tokyo bay.

Re: Ancient bread

Post by TJrandom » Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:11 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:TJ

The fact that people have done something for a long time does not prove it is good. Think of 10,000 years of African witch doctors.

Rice, even brown rice, has too little fiber in it to be healthy. That does not mean that it cannot be eaten safely, of course. It just means that it needs to be eaten in smaller quantities.

If you are looking for alternatives, you need to look at starch products with high fiber content such as wholegrain breads, and some root vegetables. Of course, the other way of adding fiber to the meal is to add lots of other vegetables, and especially leafy green veges.
Yes Lance - but that isn`t what I said or implied.

People who eat white rice also eat other starch products and a wide variety of vegetables. Rice remains a staple - much as potatoes are a staple in some western countries. Is your suggestion that people would be healthier (live longer, have fewer diseases, etc.) if they substituted wholegrain bread as a staple?

User avatar
Phoenix76
Poster
Posts: 426
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:16 am
Custom Title: Phoenix76
Location: Qld, Australia

Re: Ancient bread

Post by Phoenix76 » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:15 pm

Gord is quite correct. There was no "Paleo Diet" back in the paleolithic days. The "Paleo Diet" as such is a modern terminology for an eating regime that allegedly copies the eating habits of our paleolithic forebears. Loren Cordain Ph D, claims to be the founder of the Paleo Diet. The following link gives an overview of the Paleo Premise from his poijt of view.
https://thepaleodiet.com/the-paleo-diet-premise/

Just for the record, I do not follow a paleo diet per se, but rather a LCHF diet.

User avatar
landrew
True Skeptic
Posts: 10511
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:51 am

Re: Ancient bread

Post by landrew » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:26 pm

It's not like people had long lifespans eating a paleo diet.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

User avatar
TJrandom
Has No Life
Posts: 11528
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:55 am
Custom Title: Salt of the earth
Location: Pacific coast outside of Tokyo bay.

Re: Ancient bread

Post by TJrandom » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:39 pm

landrew wrote:It's not like people had long lifespans eating a paleo diet.
Or were healthier, or happier, or more beautiful… or smarter, or …

User avatar
landrew
True Skeptic
Posts: 10511
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:51 am

Re: Ancient bread

Post by landrew » Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:03 pm

Phoenix76 wrote:Gord is quite correct. There was no "Paleo Diet" back in the paleolithic days. The "Paleo Diet" as such is a modern terminology for an eating regime that allegedly copies the eating habits of our paleolithic forebears. Loren Cordain Ph D, claims to be the founder of the Paleo Diet. The following link gives an overview of the Paleo Premise from his poijt of view.
https://thepaleodiet.com/the-paleo-diet-premise/

Just for the record, I do not follow a paleo diet per se, but rather a LCHF diet.
Kill a mammoth, gorge yourself on meat for 6 months. Sounds healthy.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

User avatar
Lance Kennedy
Has No Life
Posts: 12764
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:20 pm
Custom Title: Super Skeptic
Location: Paradise, New Zealand

Re: Ancient bread

Post by Lance Kennedy » Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:29 pm

TJrandom wrote:.

People who eat white rice also eat other starch products and a wide variety of vegetables. Rice remains a staple - much as potatoes are a staple in some western countries. Is your suggestion that people would be healthier (live longer, have fewer diseases, etc.) if they substituted wholegrain bread as a staple?
Actually, a lot of people do eat almost nothing apart from white rice. One result is widespread vitamin A deficiency. About 500,000 children each year go blind because of this. Of course, this is a consequence of poverty.

Eating that much rice is not good. Wholegrain bread would be better, but still insufficient. They need to add greens.

User avatar
landrew
True Skeptic
Posts: 10511
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:51 am

Re: Ancient bread

Post by landrew » Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:39 pm

The human body requires about 60 elements, most of them in trace amounts. Unfortunately most plants grown for food only require about 16. Since farming has been removing nutrients from the soil for centuries, some of the trace elements are severely lacking in the soil. Fertilizers do not replenish those elements, even with organic fertilizers.

Finland mandated that bread should contain a minimum level of selenium to be sold. Statistics showed an almost immediate reduction in heart disease by 25%. That's only one element out of 60.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.