E Rodger

A skeptical look at medical practices
clarsct
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Re: E Rodger

Post by clarsct » Mon Jun 02, 2014 9:40 am

psychiatry is a scam wrote:
clarsct wrote:Wow.

So more white people means less killing?

Just wow.

Additionally:
Policemen are NOT psychoanalysts.
Crazy people do crazy things.
If he didn't have guns, he might've used bombs. Good luck banning everything that can make a bomb. I hope you never wanted to clean again. Or have fertilizer. Or drive anywhere. Or use of OTC medicinals. Or corn. Or wood.
(I'm a chemist)
I'll say it until it sinks in: A gun is a tool. Plain and simple. Kinda like a knife or a hammer. Or a pressure cooker.

so you never ran across the idea that the USA is a melting pot or BOILING pot ?
you have never read any of the stories about how Japan unites after tragedy because it is a homogeneous society ? Wow , just wow . :-(
I have never said anything in my rants about weapons ; psychiatry and hostile, lying, thieving, bigoted, doctors are what make sick people crazy.
Erm. So it's all good so long as all the 'races' of humanity stay in their respective places?
I'm sure there are many of Stormfront that would agree with you. Unfortunately, the genetics don't. The 'races' of humanity is a ridiculous concept that was formed out of bigotry and ignorance.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1288178/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15988156" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There is more genetic difference between a white cat and a black cat than a white woman and a black man. Yet, we call them all house cats.
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Flash
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Re: E Rodger

Post by Flash » Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:56 pm

clarsct wrote:
I reiterate: A gun is a tool. Cars kill more people than guns in the US.
Yes, we have tools for nailing nails, drilling holes and building stuff. They are not designed for murder. A gun is. It's a special tool unlike any others, designed especially for violently killing people. In this sense it's a tool like a nuclear bomb or anthrax a tool that needs to be made illegal.

It's the same with cars. Nobody builds cars to deliberately and efficiently kill people, but guns are build just for that exact purpose. We outlaw or control, as much as we can, the materials for building bombs and biological weapons that are designed to kill a lot of people and therefore it's only logical to outlaw the mechanical devices that do the same..
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Major Malfunction
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Re: E Rodger

Post by Major Malfunction » Mon Jun 02, 2014 2:11 pm

And yet clearly, statistically, US citizens are the most irresponsible tool-wielders in the "civilised" world.

I wouldn't entrust one with a plastic spoon.
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Lance Kennedy
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Re: E Rodger

Post by Lance Kennedy » Mon Jun 02, 2014 7:43 pm

On the tool business, and on cars.

Cars can be, and often are, murderous. But a big difference is what we do about it. Cars are constantly being redesigned to make them less lethal - like seat belts and airbags. Guns are designed to make them more, not less lethal.

Cars are regulated. You need a license to drive a car. You have speed limits, and limits on where you are permitted to drive, and limits on who is able to drive. Guns in the USA are not. One the second hand market, anyone who wants to sell a gun can, and to anyone. It makes no difference is the buyer is a mad man. If he has the cash, he can buy. No license required. Just buy and go slaughter.

Outside the USA, in other western nations, guns are strongly controlled. Limits on who can buy, and what type of gun they can buy, and the need for a gun license etc. Outside the USA (in western nations anyway), the murder rate using firearms is a fraction of that inside the USA. My country, with tight gun rules, has one fifth the murder rate of the USA.

Guns are tools. Cars are tools. Car use is tightly controlled. Gun use is not. That is insanity!

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Scott Mayers
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Re: E Rodger

Post by Scott Mayers » Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:36 pm

I have problems with guns too but want to address the OP here. First, psychiatry is NOT the pharmaceutical industry. The pharmaceutical industry operates as corporations who are liable to abuse in promoting drugs as a product like any other even beyond normal uses. This does not make psychiatrists faulty here. And yes, there are both good and bad psychiatrists.

As to claiming the fact that someone who does a crime is insane, I agree with the kitty here -- or at least one I tot I taw. People who have real problems based on their inability to get what others do normally will naturally strike out. And if they do it long term, they are bound to even environmentally develop mental issues on top of their psychological ones. This is a problem owned not just by the individual but society at large by how they can selectively neglect certain undesirable stereotypes based solely on genetics as well as economic status. It is just as easy to argue that where you find major crimes occurring, often they are those who have some kind of criminal record. But you can't assume that these people are intrinsically a fault of the justice system not being able to anticipate criminals and draw the conclusion that you must permanently lock up all criminals upon their very first offense. This is because it is an accidental nature of one being in jails associating with other criminals which tend to make many escalate when they get out with insufficient supports.

Was this guy crazy? Who knows. But it is irrelevant to such crimes as you can point to many who have never even could afford the medical assistance of a professional let alone need one prior to such major catastrophic crimes.

Often, psychiatric necessities can be avoided if both the psychological environments and stresses they are under are normalized and they are able to eat appropriately for their personal physical needs. Food are types of drugs interrelated as necessary intakes people require to live and be healthy. But it is often only a necessary expedient that drugs can work to replace some of the vital chemistry that the brain is lacking due to costs of particular needed foods alone. I know here in Canada, for instance, the costs of certain foods like vegetables are not only very expensive, but require constant replenishing to assure they are fresh enough to eat. Things like trying to find a local large food outlet that sells these varieties are harder to transport to in some communities and as many don't own cars, the costs to eat better far outweigh dealing with some things medically.

There is a lot more to these issues than simply declaring someone nuts or crazy for certain acts. You don't think twice about not blaming a wild animal when cornered and starving. Why should humans be expected to do any better?
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Re: E Rodger

Post by Scott Mayers » Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:03 am

I just finished viewing those clips provided by Kenny here. In this particular case although he appeared relatively mentally unstable, it appears more psychological and environmentally determined rather than due to any necessary mental defect. He appeared to be trying to partially role play the 'psycho' intentionally and used clearly connected rationale for his beliefs. This suggests that his problems are likely due to a mix of complex concerns related to his environment overall; it appeared that his physiological psychosis was a lesser factor than his reality and that he was acting with irreversible immaturity considering the finality of the act.

Also, his type of behavior is different to those of other types of abusers in that although the violence seems to coincide with a large plurality of men, his act was not necessarily one in which had he had successful relationships with women, that he'd fall in the same type of abuse that other men more often take the form of. This is mainly because his act was unique and final. His was of the type of person who is acting suicidal but wants to take others down with him on some impulse likely brought about by some other trigger unmentioned. Had those guns he had easy access to not been part of the picture, he might have hesitated to attempt even using a knife as this appeared to be only another impulsive act for which he was already determined to use firearms. Sometimes even such ability to hesitate can provide one to go forward in life enough to gain the maturity he needed to learn how to deal and accept his problems with more clarity.

I also have contention with the assumption that all overt violent acts (statistically done by men) place the onus on men to change as the nature of selection in our culture favors women. And it is the women who prefer the more violent characteristics of those men who do end up more overtly violent. Women, generally preferring men who are taller and more physically stronger than them, for instance, and the fact that when and where such smaller humans fail at initial physical confrontations, become better at using indirect forms of violence...one of which is ignorance or neglect. This isn't anything less severe than men's overt acts of violence. It is just a more clever and indirect form and neither behaviors are intrinsically a product of their actual sexual differences but due to their common genetic elements as an animal of any one species. So the only real solution to fix this is to attend to altering the way that both men and women have been acculturated to simultaneously.
I eat without fear of certain Death from The Tree of Knowledge because with wisdom, we may one day break free from its mortal curse.

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Re: E Rodger

Post by Fab Yolis » Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:30 pm

clarsct wrote: We can bandy stats all day, Lance. But at the end of the day, it's whether or not someone used a tool to kill. Be it rat poison in the coffee, or shooting a person as opposed to a deer. It's the people that use the tool that are responsible.
The thing is that there are two necessary ingredients in any shooting murder: 1) a person with an intention to kill, and 2) a means by which that person can carry out that intention, i.e. a gun. Measures to reduce the prevalence of either of these necessary ingredients will reduce the rate of shooting murders.

A big part of the problem, as Flash pointed out, is that guns are tools which are specifically designed to kill. This unpleasant fact has implications which go beyond the gun being a physical tool: the gun becomes a psychological and cultural symbol of power at one's fingertips, and this makes people more inclined to deal with their problems by resorting to gun violence. This inclination is exacerbated by a media which constantly promotes fear and glorifies guns.

It is the toxic combination of lethal power and convenience (both in terms of availability and use) which makes guns so dangerous and so tragically suited to the American mentality. The result I think is: 1) a lot of murders which the victim would have otherwise survived had the attacker resorted to another weapon for want of a gun; and even more troublingly 2) a lot of murders which would have otherwise never been committed because the effort involved in carrying them out without a gun would have deterred the attacker from trying in the first place.

I think a lot of massacres, including the one carried out by E Rodgers, fall into this latter category. I know that 3 of his victims were stabbed to death, but even so I think it was the fact that he 1) had access to guns and 2) had a plan which primarily involved going on a shooting spree which emboldened him to commit both the stabbing and shooting murders. Bowling for Columbine highlighted how Canada had a much lower rate of gun violence than the US despite having similar gun availability, and I think this is largely down to different cultural attitudes towards guns specifically and toward interpersonal relationships more generally.

In other words the US doesn’t really have a gun control problem, it has an attitude problem. Until Americans stop seeing guns as their own personal nuclear option, until they stop seeing guns as glamorous and sexy and start seeing them as the tools of desperate, witless, cheapskate, cowardly losers (i.e. similar to how they currently perceive bicycles), then rates of gun violence will remain appallingly high and no progress will be made toward more sensible gun laws.
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psychiatry is a scam
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Re: E Rodger

Post by psychiatry is a scam » Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:35 am

how did this turn into a debate about guns ? why not have his complete history posted on a website , so parents who have a child they don't know how to raise , can go to shrinks and get the same help.

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Lance Kennedy
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Re: E Rodger

Post by Lance Kennedy » Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:36 am

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NE ... 0073291506" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

To pias

You may think it should be about parenting, not guns. But a parent who makes damn sure his/her child has no access to guns is more likely to have a child who survives than a parent who follows the latest theories on parenting.

The reference above, from one of the world's most reputable peer reviewed medical journals, shows increase risk of homicide if a gun is available. Suicide is even more so.

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Re: E Rodger

Post by psychiatry is a scam » Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:39 pm

where is the complete history of E Rodger and Gus Deeds ?
all the facts will show that psychiatry is the cause
the whole truth - not just bs and lies written by shrinks to cover their butt

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Re: E Rodger

Post by Gord » Mon Oct 06, 2014 4:45 am

psychiatry is a scam wrote:where is the complete history of E Rodger and Gus Deeds ?
Where is the complete history of anybody?

You seem to be asking for something that is uncommon at best, and non-existent at worst.
all the facts will show that psychiatry is the cause
the whole truth - not just bs and lies written by shrinks to cover their butt
You're making predictions based on your bias, not on any facts. You're making up stuff to cover up for your own shortcomings. The medical community is not a pack of hyaenas, waiting for you to slip up so they can catch you and eat you! Nor are they a bunch of wizards, who can wave their magic wands and make your every wish come true! If you need help, go to them and ask them what they can do for you. They will tell you. They won't make false promises or offer false cures; they will try their best, and if that's not good enough, they will suffer emotionally too, just like any other human being.
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Scott Mayers
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Re: E Rodger

Post by Scott Mayers » Mon Oct 06, 2014 8:14 pm

psychiatry is a scam wrote:where is the complete history of E Rodger and Gus Deeds ?
all the facts will show that psychiatry is the cause
the whole truth - not just bs and lies written by shrinks to cover their butt
I read Elliot's online published apologia and it appears that though he does have psychological issues, the psychiatry is hard to discern for certain. It's a complex issue but it does seem to be related as much to normal coincidence of his environment and a reflection of his psychological ego. He seemed smart and had potential but may have only obsessed on it due to some significant internal disappointment in a vulnerable early period of his life. Though he was seeing a psychiatrist, this doesn't assure that even if he had some physiological issues relating to his brain (what a mental illness is) that this was the major contributor.

This is one of the bad stereotypes about mental illness which makes people be even afraid to raise their own issues to others because of misunderstandings.The variability of chemical problems that affect the brain range from the similar analogy of comparing one with a common cold to cancer. Even these extreme average illnesses in and of themselves also contribute to mental illnesses depending on the particular situation and one's chemistry. Thus, it is not fair to presume anything on Elliot. I'm even disappointed how his father raised this in such apparent ignorance -- more often than not, such parents are only attempting to place distance on their part for the potential roles they played in potentially contributing to the causes.
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Re: E Rodger

Post by psychiatry is a scam » Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:20 pm

I didn't know you guys were talking about the Santa Barbara dude. He didn't not kill :heyup:
miss one pill or 2 to bang few heads
causes of insanity are obviously not that obvious