Going to Hell in a handbasket

Fun with supply and demand.
Matthew Ellard
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Re: Going to Hell in a handbasket

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:37 pm

OutOfBreath wrote: Is it a coincidence that the moment the far right loonies get "their man" into government, "deep state" conspiracies suddenly gain popularity to explain why a completely inexperienced blowhard ignorant president cant get anything done?
It's entertaining that the "Deep State" conspiracy is just another "Reds under the bed" fuzzy conspiracy, used to blame anything.

In the Manchurian Candidate (1962) a Soviet Agent, pushes her unwitting politician husband to claim there are 40, then 50, then 70 "commies" secretly working in congress, but he can't name one of them. The aim is to install a president so right wing that the rest of the world shuns the USA as the USA pulls itself apart. (Gosh I wonder where I have recently seen that in action)
Manchurian-Candidate-1024x576.jpg
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Re: Going to Hell in a handbasket

Post by Tom Palven » Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:37 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:37 pm
OutOfBreath wrote: Is it a coincidence that the moment the far right loonies get "their man" into government, "deep state" conspiracies suddenly gain popularity to explain why a completely inexperienced blowhard ignorant president cant get anything done?
It's entertaining that the "Deep State" conspiracy is just another "Reds under the bed" fuzzy conspiracy, used to blame anything.
Isn't there something useful you could be doing to support yur wife and little kids, or is this it?
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:05 am

Tom Palven wrote: Isn't there something useful you could be doing to support yur wife and little kids, or is this it?
I see......... are you now claiming I am an Australian intelligence officer who chases down 75 year old senile conspiracy theorist, retired forest rangers............. armed to the teeth with a eight month old?

You and Bobbo have an IQ of 140 if you add both your IQs together.
:lol: :lol:

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Re: Going to Hell in a handbasket

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:13 am

Tom Palven wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:37 am
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:37 pm
OutOfBreath wrote: Is it a coincidence that the moment the far right loonies get "their man" into government, "deep state" conspiracies suddenly gain popularity to explain why a completely inexperienced blowhard ignorant president cant get anything done?
It's entertaining that the "Deep State" conspiracy is just another "Reds under the bed" fuzzy conspiracy, used to blame anything.
Isn't there something useful you could be doing to support yur wife and little kids, or is this it?
Go for the message, not the author. Remember: we want Assange out of jail and speaking freely. To that end, I would recognize that "deep state conspiracies" are a CONSTANT of our cultural milieu. Anyone noticing any coincidence has only just turned their attention to it, tuned to different infotainment sources, or the Lame Steam Media is trying to manipulate election turnout/results/voting again.

You know: basic competing forces don't change up all that often.
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Re: Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:14 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:05 am
You and Bobbo have an IQ of 140 if you add both your IQs together. [/color] :lol: :lol:
..............and the THREE of us together would boost it to 150....so whats yer point?
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Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:18 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:..............and the THREE of us together would boost it to 150....so whats yer point?
That you and Tom Palven are really dumb. I thought it was obvious. :lol: :lol:

Have you told Tom about your time assisting the IDF at the Palestinian refugee camps yet?

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Re: Going to Hell in a handbasket

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:49 am

Matt..........just stop it. Its.....boring. Without all that much engagement with you, I see I really do expect more. Ha, ha....reminds me of the line in Princess Bride: "Prepare yourself for a life of disappointment."

Whenever you are ready Matt.
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Re: Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Tom Palven » Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:56 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:05 am
Tom Palven wrote: Isn't there something useful you could be doing to support yur wife and little kids, or is this it?
I see......... are you now claiming I am an Australian intelligence officer who chases down 75 year old senile conspiracy theorist, retired forest rangers............. armed to the teeth with a eight month old?
:lol: :lol:


Yes, I'm retired. At least that much is true.

But as an Aussie with a wife and baby and a full-time job, where do you find the time during work hours to be a non-stop champion of the US "intelligence community" (aka secret police) and CENTCOM unless that is actually your job at ASIS?

Singed,
Just Wundering
Last edited by Tom Palven on Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:02 am

Tom Palven wrote: But as an Aussie with a wife and baby and a full-time job......
,
1) I don't have a wife (I told you that three times and you keep forgetting)
2) I receive commissions on client's copyright gross turnover, in perpetuity in the music industry,
3) I sold my firm for a couple million a few years back and generate rent from my properties.

4) I have been debating holocaust deniers since first posting here. That's where most of my posts are as I hate neo-Nazis.


Why did post the holocaust denier's claim that Hitler was a socialist?

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Re: Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Tom Palven » Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:12 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:02 am
Tom Palven wrote: But as an Aussie with a wife and baby and a full-time job......
,
1) I don't have a wife (I told you that three times and you keep forgetting)
2) I receive commissions client's copyright gross turnover in perpetuity
3) I sold my firm for a couple million a few years back and generate rent from my properties.
4) I have been debating holocaust deniers since first posting here. That's where most of my posts are as I hate neo-Nazis.

Okay, but what causes an Aussie with a girlfriend, significant other, insignificant other, whatever, and an eight month-old baby to become an incessant apologist for the United States secret police and CENTCOM.

I mean do I give a leaping lap dance about ASIS or the Australian military or MI6 and the British military?

Care to 'splain that, Lucy?
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:18 am

Tom Palven wrote:Okay, but what causes an Aussie with a girlfriend, significant other, insignificant other, whatever, and an eight month-old baby to become an incessant apologist for the United States secret police and CENTCOM.

Considering I have never used the word CENTCOM and that the USA doesn't have "secret police", you are simply letting everyone know here how retarded you are. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Why are you so stupid? :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Going to Hell in a Hand Basket

Post by Tom Palven » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:08 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:02 am
Tom Palven wrote: But as an Aussie with a wife and baby and a full-time job......
,
1) I don't have a wife (I told you that three times and you keep forgetting)
2) I receive commissions on client's copyright gross turnover, in perpetuity in the music industry,
3) I sold my firm for a couple million a few years back and generate rent from my properties.
4) I have been debating holocaust deniers since first posting here. That's where most of my posts are as I hate neo-Nazis.

Why did post the holocaust denier's claim that Hitler was a socialist?

1. Okay, your girlfriend, cleaning lady, whatever.

2. Fine and dandy.

3. But, if you sold your company a few years back, why were you just in Russia attending a military gradution with business partners?

4. Everyone knows that Hitler was the leader of the German National Socialist Workers Party. It's no secret. I don't know what anyone has claimed over at your holocaust denier site. Who's paying you to keep tabs on that?
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:16 am

Tom Palven wrote:1. Okay, your girlfriend, cleaning lady, whatever.
You mean editor of a large USA computer magazine syndicated around the world.
Tom Palven wrote: But, if you sold your company a few years back, why were you just in Russia attending a military gradution with business partners?
They were my business partners and they live in Australia and Russia and the NCO graduation is a tourist event like changing of the guard in the UK.
Tom Palven wrote:Everyone knows that Hitler was the leader of the German National Socialist Workers Party. It's no secret.
He wasn't actually. Hitler was a member of the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei Hitler didn't speak English you complete idiot. Hitler had the socialists arrested and sent to Dachau Concentration camp.

That's why you posted a holocaust denial video on our forum with a holocaust denier's fake English translation.
:lol: :lol:

You do know that Germany doesn't speak English? :lol: :lol: :lol:

....commonly referred to in English as the Nazi Party was a far-right political party in Germany that was active between 1920 and 1945
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Party

Why are you so incredibly stupid like your friends at Stormfront, who made the same claim on our forum? Do you swap notes before posting?

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Well I'll Be Darned

Post by Tom Palven » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:35 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:16 am
Tom Palven wrote:Everyone knows that Hitler was the leader of the German National Socialist Workers Party. It's no secret.
He wasn't actually. Hitler was a member of the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei.
Hitler didn't speak English you complete idiot.


Darn, you know, it finally clicked with you saying the holocaust denier cite is your most-visited, and you calling me anti-Semitic.

I should have known, and probably would have put it together ages ago if I ever went to that general subject!

You don't work for ASIS, you work for Mossad, or are an unpaid volunteer if you truly are a millionaire!

A latter-day Elie Wiesel wannabe!
Glad I finally connected those dots to start the new year off right.

And now I think I might see how Dan fits in, with you and he giving each other winks and nods with regard to the Netanyahu thread, I think it was.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: Going to Hell in a handbasket

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:53 pm

Just having given TP two Kudos on the other active threads, I feel constrained to comment here....although I don't recognize the dots being named and connected here. Thats ok. The entire category of conspiracy this and that and denying this and that is offputting to me. But I post what in form is a negative as without too much depth I like Elie Wiesel. I would not like his life and his outlook, but I don't have to wannabe to recognize the worth in people that aren't me.

We all should.
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Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:46 am

Tom Palven wrote: Darn, you know, it finally clicked with you saying the holocaust denier cite is your most-visited, and you calling me anti-Semitic.

1) The correct word is "website" not "cite"
2) It isn't a separate website, but the same forum you are posting on, which has hosted the largest anti-holocaust denial debating forum for decades. You are pretending you didn't know that.
3) You were posting the same holocaust denial propaganda on the other threads as was being posted in our forum's designated threads by holocaust deniers.
Tom Palven wrote: You don't work for ASIS, you work for Mossad, or are an unpaid volunteer if you truly are a millionaire!

1) I don't work for ASIS, Australia's foreign intelligence service as I am in Australia with an 8 month old baby
2) I can't work for Mossad as I am not an Israeli citizen and have never been to Israel
3) There are 20 historians who debate against holocaust denier propaganda on our forum already, who do so voluntarily. Do you claim they all work for Mossad?
4) You are the person posting holocaust denial and Fox News propaganda on our forum. Who do you claim is paying you?
Tom Palven wrote:And now I think I might see how Dan (Forum Member "Out of Breath" )fits in, with you and he giving each other winks and nods with regard to the Netanyahu thread,
Out of Breath lives in Norway. I live in Australia. We have not met.

Why are you so stupid? :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Going to Hell in a handbasket

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:59 am

Tom Plaven: as stated, I dont relate to the dots and connections you and Matt are throwing back and forth but could you make a simple declarative statement on your stance regarding the Holocaust? What is your view?? I have no idea what it is.....might even help setting the record straight???

My own view: happened pretty much exactly like everyone thinks it did..........except, probably "worse" as the human mind shrinks from such atrocities. I'm interested in where you might fall on the continuum...........
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Re: Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:02 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:46 am

1) The correct word is "website" not "cite"
Or "site". The rule of fewer key strokes should always be allowed.
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Re: Going to Hell in a handbasket

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:04 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: But I post what in form is a negative as without too much depth I like Elie Wiesel.
Holocaust deniers claim Elie Wiesel is a fraud and deny he had his concentration camp tattoo. Tom Palven is claiming I am a fraud like Elie Wiesel. Tom Palven is not hiding his extremist views anymore.

"Let's finish off Elie Weisel, the most prominent of the lot of holocaust promoters."
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=29745&p=666740&hil ... el#p666740

"Did Wiesel have a tattoo? - I don't know. Did he assume another persons identity? - I don't care. If Wiesel was a liar"
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=26975&p=660836&hil ... el#p660687

"There was no tattoo you have convinced yourself there was one...The jews have no problem with lying....it's part of their culture. And of course some dumbos here believe the lies."
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=26975&hilit=Elie+W ... 80#p523080

"Elie Wiesel, for all the attributes for which he should be rightly condemned, at least give him credit for admitting that upon their liberation, Jews stole food and clothing from nearby towns and villages and raped German girls. "
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=26975&hilit=Elie+W ... 20#p525018

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Re: Going to Hell in a handbasket

Post by Tom Palven » Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:13 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:59 am
Tom Plaven: as stated, I dont relate to the dots and connections you and Matt are throwing back and forth but could you make a simple declarative statement on your stance regarding the Holocaust? What is your view?? I have no idea what it is.....might even help setting the record straight???

My own view: happened pretty much exactly like everyone thinks it did..........except, probably "worse" as the human mind shrinks from such atrocities. I'm interested in where you might fall on the continuum...........

I agree completely that the Holocaust happened and that millions of totally innocent Jews were murdered, and to my knowledge I am not personally acquainted with anyone who doesn't share that opinion.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: Going to Hell in a handbasket

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:18 am

Ha, ha........Good Man. I'm embarrassed to admit then I am curious as to what the frick the dispute is between you and Matt........or maybe its just Matt? THAT is exactly what arguing off topic does and Matt seems capable of little else.

Its all spelled out on page 34 of the BULL-dozer manual.
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Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:21 am

Tom Palven wrote:I agree completely that the Holocaust happened and that millions of totally innocent Jews were murdered, and to my knowledge I am not personally acquainted with anyone who doesn't share that opinion.
Then why are you copying the holocaust deniers in our skeptic forum claiming "Hitler was really a socialist" knowing that Hitler had socialists sent to Dachau Concentration camp where they were forced to wear red triangle patches and work as slave laborers until they died? .

Skeptic Society Forum / "Nazis were left-wing!" Arguments from far-right American 'intellectuals'
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=29558&start=40#p670366

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Re: Going to Hell in a handbasket

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:25 am

Matt: those are damning quotes indeed........but none of them from TP. Whats the connection?

EDIT: on seeing the follow on post. I see, you are just making up your own extensions and connections. That really is bad form.

My own view: it does look like TP has a basic confusion about the difference between English and German. Same letters, same words: different meanings. That can be solved with a bit of education to other cultures.

Wish all mental defects were so easily cured.
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Going to Hell in a Hand Basket

Post by Tom Palven » Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:33 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:21 am
Tom Palven wrote:I agree completely that the Holocaust happened and that millions of totally innocent Jews were murdered, and to my knowledge I am not personally acquainted with anyone who doesn't share that opinion.
Then why are you copying the holocaust deniers in our skeptic forum claiming "Hitler was really a socialist" knowing that Hitler had socialists sent to Dachau Concentration camp where they were forced to wear red triangle patches and work as slave laborers until they died? .

Skeptic Society Forum / "Nazis were left-wing!" Arguments from far-right American 'intellectuals'
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=29558&start=40#p670366
I remember stating that I am totally unimpressed by the fact that you call yourself a socialist since Hitler was the leader of a Socialist Worker's Party, and that whatever you choose to call yourself, you defend neoconseravtve warmongers.

I made that statement some time ago, which probably doesn't coincide with the Holocaust denier BS, a-hole.
Last edited by Tom Palven on Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:35 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:25 am
Matt: those are damning quotes indeed........but none of them from TP. Whats the connection?
Tom Palven and the holocaust deniers are both posting that Hitler was a socialist using the English translation "National Socialist" which is a false translation of Nationalsozialismus, which means united nationalistic social order.

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Re: Going to Hell in a handbasket

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:38 am

TP: you need to recognize the power of "Labels" to saddle you with very bad ideas. Even if Hitler was a socialist EXACTLY as you think.......its still only ONE variable in a host of others. Labelling makes the error of applying one MONOLITHIC SIMPLE MINDED characteristic to what is in reality complex and usually conflicting set of cross purposes.

How could Hitler send anyone to a gas camp when Hitler was a human himself? See how dumb that is? Substitute any label you wish, it works with all of them.
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Re: Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:39 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:35 am
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:25 am
Matt: those are damning quotes indeed........but none of them from TP. Whats the connection?
Tom Palven and the holocaust deniers are both posting that Hitler was a socialist using the English translation "National Socialist" which is a false translation of Nationalsozialismus, which means united nationalistic social order.
Thats already been recognized and agreed with. THAT error alone doesn't establish ANY of your other links. Stop the BS.
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Going to Hell in a Hand Basket

Post by Tom Palven » Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:41 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:35 am
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:25 am
Matt: those are damning quotes indeed........but none of them from TP. Whats the connection?
Tom Palven and the holocaust deniers are both posting that Hitler was a socialist using the English translation "National Socialist" which is a false translation of Nationalsozialismus, which means united nationalistic social order.
I don't speak German, but this is what Wikipedia says:

Nazism - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism

National Socialism, more commonly known as Nazism, is the ideology and practices associated with the Nazi Party – officially the National Socialist German Workers' Party – in Nazi Germany, and of other far-right groups with similar aims. Nazism is a form of fascism and showed that ideology's disdain for liberal democracy and the parliamentary system, but also incorporated fervent antisemitism, scientific racism, and eugenics into its creed. Its extreme nationalism came from Pan...


Last edited by Tom Palven on Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
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Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:42 am

Tom Palven wrote: Hitler was the leader of a Socialist Worker's Party,
Hitler didn't speak English. Hitler was a member of the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei which does not mean socialist.

Hitler had the members of the SDP Sozialdemokratische Partei Deutschlands, who were the socialists, sent to Dachau concentration camp as slave labour

"Red triangle – political prisoners: social democrats, socialists, communists and trade unionists"
Red triangle 2.jpg
Red triangle 3.jpg
Does Tom Palven still claim Hitler is socialist? Is Tom Palven going to post the holocaust denier video again, that claims that?
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Last edited by Matthew Ellard on Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Going to Hell in a Hand Basket

Post by Tom Palven » Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:43 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:42 am
Tom Palven wrote: Hitler was the leader of a Socialist Worker's Party,
Hitler didn't speak English. Hitler was a member of the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei which does not mean socialist.

Hitler had the members of the SDP Sozialdemokratische Partei Deutschlands, who were the socialists, sent to Dachau concentration camp as slave labour

"Red triangle – political prisoners: social democrats, socialists, communists and trade unionists"
Red triangle 2.jpgRed triangle 3.jpg

Submit your argument to Wikipedia, a-hole.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: Going to Hell in a handbasket

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:44 am

Ha, ha.....TP: I'll let you stew just a bit. Its good for the soul. Your linked material is EXACTLY CORRECT. Rinse, Lather Repeat. It may come to you.

Actually READ IT. Hint: "What is Socialism" vs "What was the ideology of the Nazi Party" I envy you: its not often we are given the opportunity to learn new things.
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Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:49 am

Tom Palven wrote: Submit your argument to Wikipedia, a-hole.
Why don't you make you claim in our forum's correct thread. It's your claim that you share with the holocaust deniers. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Skeptic Society Forum / "Nazis were left-wing!" Arguments from far-right American 'intellectuals'
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=29558#p652505

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Re: Going to Hell in a handbasket

Post by Tom Palven » Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:57 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:44 am
Ha, ha.....TP: I'll let you stew just a bit. Its good for the soul. Your linked material is EXACTLY CORRECT. Rinse, Lather Repeat. It may come to you.

Actually READ IT. Hint: "What is Socialism" vs "What was the ideology of the Nazi Party" I envy you: its not often we are given the opportunity to learn new things.
Remember, bobbo, I never made any claim that Adolf Hitler was an English-speaking supporter of Bernie Sanders, only that he was a warmonger who was a leader a party using the word socialist, just as "Ellard" uses the label "socialist" for himself, and he, too, is a friggin' conservative warmonger.

Wikipedia also uses the term "socialist" in describing the acronym, Nazi. I'm not trying to misconstrue words with my own meaning for them as "Mr. Ellard, sir" does.

Nazism - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism
National Socialism, more commonly known as Nazism, is the ideology and practices associated with the Nazi Party – officially the National Socialist German Workers' Party – in Nazi Germany, and of other far-right groups with similar aims.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: Going to Hell in a handbasket

Post by Pyrrho » Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:09 am

Everybody relax, I'm here.

Locking the thread for a day because of all the personal attacks.

Maybe two days.
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Re: Going to Hell in a handbasket

Post by Pyrrho » Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:23 pm

Okay, let's see if you folks can keep this particular handbasket on a civil basis.
For any forum questions or concerns please e-mail skepticforum@gmail.com or send a PM.

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Re: Going to Hell in a handbasket

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:46 pm

Do I have too cheerful an attitude? .................. I thought Matt was actually coming around a bit and starting to answer direct questions. My impression, (just baseless emotions which could well be a measure of my declining interest than what I am about to say) was the Matt was even backing off a bit from calling every single poster stupid?....IIRC...OK--backed off from 100% to 50/50? Thats still an improvement==>only meaning if you are being demeaning, you might be closer to addressing the issues????

I obviously would make a BAD moderator. I suppose it is "impossible" to communicate exactly why you froze this thread for a cool off period? Stupid was thrown back and forth a few times.....I don't think any of "us" cares, but who knows. I care as stated only because it allows print on the screen to look like there is any bilateral discussion on the merits.....which there isn't?

I don't feel "the Force" on this one. Is it just never call anyone names??? That is an easy rule to follow....but name calling is fun. Pros and Cons to all we do............................Thanks for the unfreezing.......now, I'll go back and confirm where it was left.
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Re: Going to Hell in a handbasket

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:51 pm

Tom Palven: if you have the interest, please read the past 5-10 posts as I think there is a clear "thing" you are not picking up on. the same letters and words mean different things in different languages. Its even worse when it comes to the LABELS put on political/social movements as often the name is the very opposite of what the group is about.

Here is an exercise that ought to make this plain to you. Write a short sentence on what "socialist" means to you/most English speaking people/what the DICTIONARY says. THEN: make the same summary for what the Nazi's were all about. I won't telegraph what you should see.......but you've missed it the last two requests, and its RIGHT THERE for all to see.

Good Luck.
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Re: Going to Hell in a handbasket

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:52 am

Tom Palven wrote:Remember, bobbo, I never made any claim that Adolf Hitler was an English-speaking supporter of Bernie Sanders, only that he was a warmonger who was a leader a party using the word socialist, just as "Ellard" uses the label "socialist" for himself,
You are lying again. You first made the earlier claim
Tom Palven wrote:As leader of the National Socialist German Workers Party Adolph Hitler was an avowed socialist and also a warmonger.

At no point did Hitler "avowed" (declare his open support) for socialism in either English or German ) You simply made that up. You then realised that members of the Australian Labour Party and UK Labour Party were reading your posts so you made another claim.
Tom Palven wrote:Hitler was leader of the National Socialist German Labor Party
This is when you posted a holocaust denial video of a Nazi rally which had false English subtitles by a holocaust denier and you claimed Hitler was promoting his socialist welfare state. You did this knowing Hitler enslaved his own people, brought in 13, 000,000 slave workers from other countries and never established any welfare state at all.

Thankfully two historians from the anti-holocaust denial subforum pointed out your lies......so you left.


Don't try hide your original post by pretending you wrote something else.

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Re: Going to Hell in a handbasket

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:01 am

Well, this looks like damning evidence against Tom Palven........except.....given Matts track record I would have to see the cut and paste quotes for Matts own accuracy rather than manipulation. BETWEEN Matt and Palven that should not be needed as both know what they said.........oops....no, even that allowance is not true. People do forget. People do manipulate. always best to go with the cut and past quote rather than memory and restatement.

Does physics have any role to play in this? Like: Hitler could not have been a "supporter of Bernie Sanders" (sarc on) for reasons that are too complicated to go into now. (sarc off).

Seems to me rather than argue whether or not Socialism is BAD because Hitler was a socialist, more BEEF would be found in talking about what policies are good and bad for what reasons??? When you get off mindless Labelling exercises, progress could be made.

What is it this time?.......anyone remember? FREE Food for grammar school kiddies at lunch time? I do think Hitler supported that, so it could be a close call?
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Re: Going to Hell in a handbasket

Post by Tom Palven » Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:34 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:01 am
Well, this looks like damning evidence against Tom Palven........except.....given Matts track record I would have to see the cut and paste quotes for Matts own accuracy rather than manipulation. BETWEEN Matt and Palven that should not be needed as both know what they said.........oops....no, even that allowance is not true. People do forget. People do manipulate. always best to go with the cut and past quote rather than memory and restatement.

Does physics have any role to play in this? Like: Hitler could not have been a "supporter of Bernie Sanders" (sarc on) for reasons that are too complicated to go into now. (sarc off).

Seems to me rather than argue whether or not Socialism is BAD because Hitler was a socialist, more BEEF would be found in talking about what policies are good and bad for what reasons??? When you get off mindless Labelling exercises, progress could be made.

What is it this time?.......anyone remember? FREE Food for grammar school kiddies at lunch time? I do think Hitler supported that, so it could be a close call?
1. I've refuted that same BS from "Ellard" so many times that I'm not going to bother anymore.

2. I'm a fan of individualism and would label myself a classical liberal, and I am not a fan of neoliberalism/socialism.

3. But that said, I still prefer the company of people calling themselves socialists or liberals to those calling themselves conservatives or neoconservatives.

4. Thus, my point in saying that Hitler was the leader of the German Socialist Workers Party was not to label socialism as bad, but to point out to Ellard who calls himself a socialist that his positions on foreign policy are the same positions of neoconservative warmongers James Clapper, John Brennan and Adolph Hitler, and not the positions of liberals and classical liberals who admire Edward Snowden, Chelsea Manning, and Julian Assange.

Do you follow me? My point was not to tar socialists by lumping them with warmonger Hitler, but to lump warmonger "Ellard" with Hitler.

At this point I have probably unintentionally invoked Godwin's Law marking the decline of the thread:

Godwin's law - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
Overview
Godwin's law (or Godwin's rule of Hitler analogies) is an Internet adage asserting that "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1"; that is, if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Adolf Hitler or his deeds, the point at which effectively the discussion or thread often ends. Promulgated by the American attorney and author Mike Godwin in 1990, Godwin's law originally referred specifically to Usenet newsgroup discussions. It is now applied to any threaded onli…
Read more on Wikipedia

If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot