Is the USA an economic parasite?

Fun with supply and demand.
Matthew Ellard
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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:48 am

supervitor wrote:Are you upset about something, little Matthew? Did it happen again, is that it?
I'm just going to ask you directly. Are you Norma? You seem to be stuck on forum anecdotes from way before you joined. Norma was recently going on about starting a sock puppet. Norma stopped posting when you joined.

Is this it? Norma II?

:D

Pyrrho? What do the augers say? Could this be Norma's sock-puppet?

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by supervitor » Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:53 am

I've already answered you that, Matthew (maybe on another thread).

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:03 am

supervitor wrote:I've already answered you that, Matthew (maybe on another thread).
Yes and Norma told lies. Here you are, bogging down and chasing me, to avoid offering your economic argument. Norma also did that. Perhaps you simply walking in the footsteps of your peers, Norma and Sweetpea
:D

So, have you got an economic models for us yet to support your previous claim?
:D

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by xouper » Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:03 am

supervitor wrote:you're stupid, Matthew, sorry to say.
Matthew is one of the most highly respected members of this forum and has been for many years. Attacking his character will not benefit you in any way.

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:10 am

xouper wrote:
supervitor wrote:you're stupid, Matthew, sorry to say.
Matthew is one of the most highly respected members of this forum and has been for many years. Attacking his character will not benefit you in any way.
Thank you. However, I feel I have met Supervitor before. she certainly feels like and acts like Norma. I just don't know yet.

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by supervitor » Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:19 am

xouper wrote:
supervitor wrote:you're stupid, Matthew, sorry to say.
Matthew is one of the most highly respected members of this forum and has been for many years. Attacking his character will not benefit you in any way.
I'm not, I'm telling him what I think (and showed previously: hold on a minute, I'm about to show again something about his character).

I don't care about your definition of "respected members of the forum" and I don't care about benefits.
Last edited by supervitor on Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by supervitor » Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:28 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
supervitor wrote:I've already answered you that, Matthew (maybe on another thread).
Yes and Norma told lies. Here you are, bogging down and chasing me

No, you're the one chasing me (and lying). I haven't addressed you on this thread or any other for that matter (except maybe my "first days" here, maybe, I can't remember: I hadn't figured you out, you'll understand). I'll show you. This is the first post of you addressing me, on this thread.

http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 86#p471647

you can look above, you won't see me addressing you, despite you participating on the thread. I just ignored your presence.

See?

, to avoid offering your economic argument. Norma also did that. Perhaps you simply walking in the footsteps of your peers, Norma and Sweetpea
:D

So, have you got an economic models for us yet to support your previous claim?
:D

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:30 am

supervitor wrote: I'm about to show again something about his character again).
It's a compliment to have you follow me around all day and tell me what's wrong with me, but I am not interested. I already have Norma an elderly housewife, Sweetpea, a climate change denier, and a couple holocaust deniers doing this. It would be better if you started a forum, to talk about me with these people, and I promise not to join. Now go start that alternative forum. You know you want to, Norma II.
:D

Have you got that economic model yet or are you still trying to distract away from your inadequacies?
:D

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:32 am

supervitor wrote: .....you can look above, you won't see me addressing you, despite you participating on the thread. I just ignored your presence.
You are talking about me in this very post.

It's definitely Norma.

:D

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by supervitor » Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:47 am

This is not going to end well for you, little Matt. The lesson from earlier today (or yesterday) is:

you should learn to let go. you got butt-f%cked, I admit it, I'm responsable, but you had it coming.

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by Lance Kennedy » Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:54 am

supervitor wrote:
You're ignoring the fact that the USA is a well-managed economy, an "expanding economy", in your words now.
Not as well managed as you think!

But as I pointed out, printing extra money works when the economy is growing. The USA traditionally has printed far more money than required to cover any normal expansion. But this is covered by the expansion in trade by people in other countries. So a big part of the economic expansion required to justify the extra dollars printed, comes from the efforts of people in other nations.

The USA is printing something (for almost no cost) that has no inherent value, since dollars are just tokens. They are then selling those tokens for megabucks.

When you make money by selling something that has no intrinsic value, for a lot of money, that is normally called fraud. In this case, I choose to call it parasitism, since it means that money put into the US economy (by buying dollars) by non Americans, is propping up the high standard of living in the USA.

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by supervitor » Tue Jul 14, 2015 3:14 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:
supervitor wrote:
You're ignoring the fact that the USA is a well-managed economy, an "expanding economy", in your words now.
Not as well managed as you think!

But as I pointed out, printing extra money works when the economy is growing. The USA traditionally has printed far more money than required to cover any normal expansion.
It's a very big economy, Lance. You'll for sure recognize that growth is in relation to the size of the economy, so your attempt "printed more money" has no legs to stand.

Lance: printed more money
supervitor: much larger economy
But this is covered by the expansion in trade by people in other countries. So a big part of the economic expansion required to justify the extra dollars printed, comes from the efforts of people in other nations.
(...)
you move on with your initial conclusion, which is defeated.

I destroyed you premise. Here:
supervitor wrote:
That is in an expanding economy
Exactly! This is where you've gone wrong on your Opening Post. You're ignoring the fact that the USA is a well-managed economy, an "expanding economy", in your words now.

you say:
Lance Kennedy wrote: One of the things that has puzzled me in the past is how the US economy manages to survive.
but it shouldn't puzzle you it hasn't destroyed itself. That's your wrong premise. Once you realise that, there's no need to look for alternative explanations.

Like this:
Lance Kennedy wrote: Anywhere else, this tactic would lead to a major devaluing of the currency and severe inflation. It would be an economic disaster.
it's contradicted by reality: anywhere else, it's how it's done. And for extreme cases, all you have to do is look at the southern european economies, that many times have devalued their currencies, never "leading to disaster", Italy (G7 country) being the most striking example. The Greek case nowadays is to make clear what can happen if a country does not have a currency to devalue: that's what I call an economic disaster.

Your conclusion is then irrelevant (although it also has mistakes by itself)
This is what you have to attack, to continue the discussion. You can't, because it's based on reality: I've provided a counter-example (many) for your assertion "Anywhere else it will lead to destruction".

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by Lance Kennedy » Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:27 am

Supervitor

The USA prints trillions. That is not covering an expanding economy.

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:28 am

supervitor wrote:This is not going to end well for you, little Matt.
What exactly is not going to go well for me. Are you going to put me on ignore or something. Norma refused to do this so she could "keep monitoring me". I assume you are compelled to do the same.
:D

supervitor wrote:you should learn to let go. you got butt-f%cked, I admit it, I'm responsable, but you had it coming.
The word is actually spelt "responsible". I assume you are not going to challenge me to a spelling bee.
:D

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by supervitor » Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:43 am

Ellard's view of the world:
blue guy (Ellard) wrote: It's a compliment to have you follow me around all day and tell me what's wrong with me, but I am not interested.
Reality:
Ellard crying because I don't give him what he wants wrote: 1. Have you got that economic model yet or are you still trying to distract away from your inadequacies?
:D

2. Translation : " No Matthew I can't find one example to back up my ridiculous claim. Norma II"
:D

3. So, have you got an economic models for us yet to support your previous claim?
:D

4. I am asking you what economic model are you holding out to back that bizarre claim.
Ellard «not being interested» wrote: 1. Thank you. However, I feel I have met Supervitor before. she certainly feels like and acts like Norma. I just don't know yet

2. I'm just going to ask you directly. Are you Norma?

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by supervitor » Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:50 am

Ellard's view of the world:
Are you going to put me on ignore or something.

Reality:
Who wants to bet that he'll eventually (if he doesn't stop "bothering" me and addressing me with stupid questions) put me on ignore and bothering everybody on the forum, including newcomers, to put me on ignore?

Deal with it, little Matt!

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by supervitor » Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:54 am

Explanation to the forum: he's probably sore. it happened to him again, just yesterday

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:55 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:But as I pointed out, printing extra money works when the economy is growing. The USA traditionally has printed far more money than required to cover any normal expansion. But this is covered by the expansion in trade by people in other countries. So a big part of the economic expansion required to justify the extra dollars printed, comes from the efforts of people in other nations.
Fair enough. The USA prints more money, backed by bonds that can be met through future stable taxation, and a portion of those cash foreign reserves are held by foreign nations and individuals. I would also agree with you that "perception of stability" is an important contributing factor to the the value of the dollar.

I think your question can be broken down into different parts.

"Did the USA have an advantage post war that allowed it to use its strong dollar backed by expanding GDP to obtain foreign assets in an unjust advantage?"
I don't think anyone can make a clear call on that. In theory, foreign nations and individuals agreed to accept USA offers. (That is not the reality concerning arms sales). I think it was the unique economic post war environment that allowed the USA to take advantage. I think its a "moral question" but capitalism and morals don't sit well together. I can't blame the USA for taking advantage in economics.

Is this still a factor today?
Again, I don't think so. The USA's economic advantage has narrowed and the rise of "off contract" foreign exchange hedging has weakened the expressed value of USD in the actual contract. Secondly, as foreigners hold such large portions of US foreign reserves, the floating value of the USD, is really an international perception. therefore it would be hard to suggest the USA alone is taking advantage of its own currency's power.
Lance Kennedy wrote:The USA is printing something (for almost no cost) that has no inherent value, since dollars are just tokens.
"Transferable Bearer bonds" not tokens, as they are backed up by the reserve bank. However I understand what you mean. It's not as though I still get a pound of corn for my one pound promissory note from the Bank of England, any more.
:D
Lance Kennedy wrote: When you make money by selling something that has no intrinsic value, for a lot of money, that is normally called fraud.
...and that is a fair call, but probably more pertinent to Weimar Germany and Greece if it changes its mind again.
Lance Kennedy wrote: In this case, I choose to call it parasitism, since it means that money put into the US economy (by buying dollars) by non Americans, is propping up the high standard of living in the USA.
I need to think about that some more. I agree that the USA has had an artificially high standard of living, (as has Australia) but I need to think how it achieved this. My "mind set" is more taxation based and I look at simple tax deficits where tax revenue is less than spending, however you are suggesting that the USA's ability to borrow off shore to meet tax deficits ( and/or stimulate the USA economy is "the rort". Let me think about that.

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by supervitor » Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:56 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:Supervitor

The USA prints trillions. That is not covering an expanding economy.
Lance (sorry for the interruption),

size of the US economy?
from previous post wrote: It's a very big economy, Lance. You'll for sure recognize that growth is in relation to the size of the economy, so your attempt "printed more money" has no legs to stand.

Lance: printed more money
supervitor: much larger economy
Last edited by supervitor on Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:02 am

Matthew Ellard wrote: Are you going to put me on ignore or something?
supervitor wrote:Ellard's view of the world: Who wants to bet that he'll eventually (if he doesn't stop "bothering" me and addressing me with stupid questions) put me on ignore and bothering everybody on the forum, including newcomers, to put me on ignore? Deal with it, little Matt!
So, you are not going to put me on ignore are you Sweetie? You are going to follow Sweetpea and Norma's compulsion to follow me around?.
supervitor wrote:Ellard....
supervitor wrote: ..you are one of my broken men
At least make an effort to disguise yourself and you should stop making three angry posts in a row like Sweetpea, as that is also a bit obvious.
:D

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by supervitor » Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:25 am

blue sore butt guy (from yesterday) wrote: and you should stop making three angry posts in a row like Sweetpea, as that is also a bit obvious.
yes, little Matt. Everybody understands: you're pretending to be a "troll". But all of us really know what's hurting:

http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 79#p471570

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by supervitor » Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:30 am


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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by supervitor » Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:31 am

little Matt's mask fell. Poor little Matt. Does someone wants to give him a shoulder to cry?

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by supervitor » Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:32 am

here you go, little Matt. Your 3 (4 now) requests for the day. Now, are you going to cry a bit more?

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:32 am

supervitor wrote: yes, little Matt. Everybody understands: you're pretending to be a "troll". But all of us really know what's hurting:
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 79#p471570[/quote]

Norma or Sweetpea or whoever you are, can you walk me through why "everyone" thinks I am hurting?

Even I don't have a clue what you are going on about this time. Did you forget to take your meds again?

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by supervitor » Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:34 am

Oh boy, this is enjoying. Lance, I'm really sorry about this, but I just can't contain myself...

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by supervitor » Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:36 am

poor little blue guy wrote: Norma or Sweetpea or whoever you are,
Now he's not sure! Remember, he "doesn't care".

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:37 am

supervitor wrote:here you go, little Matt. Your 3 (4 now) requests for the day. Now, are you going to cry a bit more?
You are now making many many posts about me, one after the other, while frothing at the mouth. It is a little creepy and suggests that you suffer some sort of preoccupation with strangers, you claim you have never met.

Why don't you run along and stalk Brad Pitt for a while. I won't feel jealous, Sweetie.

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by supervitor » Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:37 am

Poor little Matt...

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by supervitor » Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:39 am

Lance, come on. It's your turn to reply (size of US economy), you should appear even if it is to save little Matt..

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by supervitor » Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:39 am

He's getting another one of those beats.

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by supervitor » Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:40 am

Lol, I just got one "You can't reply so soon after your last reply".

hehehehehe

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:43 am

supervitor wrote:Poor little Matt...
hmmmm..... You may be Freebill, because he called me a cry baby before being suspended yesterday. However I'm still thinking Norma with a slim inside chance of Sweetpea or Mary.

Pyrrho? Can I request a sock puppet check on supervitor?

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by supervitor » Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:49 am

To recap:

little Matt got beaten so bad yesterday (here:
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 79#p471570
)

his little mask fell off. hehehehe, and all I had to do was be..

and yesterday, tell him what I think of him; I went ahead and also "told the world". He is exposed as what he is. Now he can't deal with it.

Notice this thread: I'm arguing with Lance:

http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 51#p471646

ignoring little Matt (he probably wants attention: he addresses me, next post)

so I gave it to him (slowly, not too much, so he doesn't get spoiled). He needs more (soreness from yesterday, probably)

Now he's getting another beat. Yet again

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by supervitor » Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:52 am

Poor little Matt

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by supervitor » Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:01 am

Look:
poor little blue guy in the middle of another one of those beats wrote: he called me a cry baby before being suspended yesterday.
He's trying to scare me!! :o

Look, more:
poor little blue guy in the middle of another one of those beats wrote: Pyrrho? Can I request a sock puppet check on supervitor?
Last edited by supervitor on Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by supervitor » Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:01 am

Poor little Matt

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by supervitor » Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:02 am

He just can't deal with it...

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by supervitor » Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:02 am

hehehhehe, I got another:

"You cannot make another post so soon after your last."

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by supervitor » Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:04 am

you were right, SweetPea. He just can't take it.