Is the USA an economic parasite?

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Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by Lance Kennedy » Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:25 pm

One of the things that has puzzled me in the past is how the US economy manages to survive. Not only that, but to thrive. The American administration makes use of a tactic that would be a disaster anywhere else. Any time it needs more money, it simply prints more. (Of course, in today's world, it may not be an actual printing. Since most monetary transactions are now simply electrons flowing between computers, the US administration uses this means of creating money.)

Anywhere else, this tactic would lead to a major devaluing of the currency and severe inflation. It would be an economic disaster. But not in the USA. Why?

I read an article explaining this. The idea is that the American dollar is a form of international currency, in that it is used widely in transactions between nations. In particular, it is the standard currency used to buy oil. Thus, by the laws of supply and demand, by keeping up demand for the dollar, it keeps up its value and prevents the collapse of the American economy.

My own thoughts then jumped ahead in a direction some may find controversial. If the American economy is kept healthy by the economic actions of others, then it is acting as a parasite upon those others. The healthy transactions of others is propping up what would otherwise be an unhealthy dollar.

So, is the American economy a parasite upon other world economies?

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by supervitor » Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:41 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:One of the things that has puzzled me in the past is how the US economy manages to survive. Not only that, but to thrive. The American administration makes use of a tactic that would be a disaster anywhere else. Any time it needs more money, it simply prints more.
You're making an assumption, but you don't justify it: Now, why would "printing more money" be synonymous with "disaster"? Can you elaborate on this, please?
(Of course, in today's world, it may not be an actual printing. Since most monetary transactions are now simply electrons flowing between computers, the US administration uses this means of creating money.)

Anywhere else, this tactic would lead to a major devaluing of the currency and severe inflation. It would be an economic disaster. But not in the USA. Why?
You're making the same confusion as before: you're forgetting to make distinctions. Please, think about it, and if you still arrive to the same conclusion, justify it. I'll then show you where your mistake.
I read an article explaining this. The idea is that the American dollar is a form of international currency, in that it is used widely in transactions between nations. In particular, it is the standard currency used to buy oil. Thus, by the laws of supply and demand, by keeping up demand for the dollar, it keeps up its value and prevents the collapse of the American economy.

My own thoughts then jumped ahead in a direction some may find controversial. If the American economy is kept healthy by the economic actions of others, then it is acting as a parasite upon those others. The healthy transactions of others is propping up what would otherwise be an unhealthy dollar.

So, is the American economy a parasite upon other world economies?
Please correct your assumptions, and then we can move on to your conclusions.

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by gorgeous » Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:42 pm

yes........wiki-----------According to Perkins, he began writing Confessions of an Economic Hit Man in the 1980s, but "threats or bribes always convinced [him] to stop."

According to his book, Perkins' function was to convince the political and financial leadership of underdeveloped countries to accept enormous development loans from institutions like the World Bank and USAID. Saddled with debts they could not hope to pay, those countries were forced to acquiesce to political pressure from the United States on a variety of issues. Perkins argues in his book that developing nations were effectively neutralized politically, had their wealth gaps driven wider and economies crippled in the long run. In this capacity Perkins recounts his meetings with some prominent individuals, including Graham Greene and Omar Torrijos. Perkins describes the role of an economic hit man as follows:


Economic hit men (EHMs) are highly paid professionals who cheat countries around the globe out of trillions of dollars. They funnel money from the World Bank, the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID), and other foreign "aid" organizations into the coffers of huge corporations and the pockets of a few wealthy families who control the planet's natural resources. Their tools included fraudulent financial reports, rigged elections, payoffs, extortion, sex, and murder. They play a game as old as empire, but one that has taken on new and terrifying dimensions during this time of globalization.
-
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by JO 753 » Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:42 pm

Yes.

But the human race haz alwayz been a parasite, so its nothing to cry foul about. The entire world economy iz just a jiant mekanizm dezined to plunder the Earth.
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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by Lance Kennedy » Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:54 pm

To supervitor
About the problems of printing money.

This is basic economics, really - just the law of supply and demand in action.

When you increase the supply of something, without increasing the demand, you reduce its value. If you are a shoe maker, selling shoes for $100 per pair, and a way is found to double output, so that all the shoemakers together produce twice as many, then the price drops. You might then get only $50 per pair of shoes.

The same applies to money. Money is traded and has a value. But if the money supply increases, then its value drops, just as for shoes. When a government prints more money, its value drops accordingly, unless demand rises at the same time.

The US administration gets away with printing more money, because the demand rises along with expanding world economies. Since US dollars are needed to buy oil, for example, then the oil buyers have to first buy American dollars. The value of the dollar stays up only because more and more is needed to be bought by overseas traders.

It is this transaction that I am suggesting makes America a parasite. It creates what would seem to be a valueless material (dollars), and sells them for a big pile of money. America produces nothing by printing money, but sells that material for heaps. It takes without giving, and this makes it a parasite.

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by gorgeous » Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:56 pm

--“Whoever controls the volume of money in any country is absolute master of all industry and commerce. And when you realize that the entire system is very easily controlled, one way or another by a few powerful men at the top, you will not have to be told how periods of inflation and depression originate.” – President James Garfield, 1881. He was assassinated just weeks after making this statement.
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by supervitor » Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:14 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:To supervitor
About the problems of printing money.

This is basic economics, really - just the law of supply and demand in action.

When you increase the supply of something, without increasing the demand, you reduce its value. If you are a shoe maker, selling shoes for $100 per pair, and a way is found to double output, so that all the shoemakers together produce twice as many, then the price drops. You might then get only $50 per pair of shoes.

The same applies to money. Money is traded and has a value. But if the money supply increases, then its value drops, just as for shoes. When a government prints more money, its value drops accordingly, unless demand rises at the same time.
You're explaining to me the process of devaluation of money. You missed my point of connecting this with destruction of economy (disaster was the word you used, I believe).
The US administration gets away with printing more money, because the demand rises along with expanding world economies. Since US dollars are needed to buy oil, for example, then the oil buyers have to first buy American dollars. The value of the dollar stays up only because more and more is needed to be bought by overseas traders.

It is this transaction that I am suggesting makes America a parasite. It creates what would seem to be a valueless material (dollars), and sells them for a big pile of money. America produces nothing by printing money, but sells that material for heaps. It takes without giving, and this makes it a parasite.
your conclusion is still irrelevant, until you address my objection to your premise

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:08 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:So, is the American economy a parasite upon other world economies?
I don't think so. I think we need to think about "long runs" to review what happened. The USA experienced massive production growth equal to Europe and the continued to do so when European cities were all being destroyed in WWII. USA efficiency in production converted to consumer production and the whole world benefited in post WWII. The rest of the word had to catch up to USA manufacturing efficiency, which it did after thirty years.

By the 90's The US$ was already under stress as the stable currency for international contracts, simply because other countries had recovered after the war from both infrastructure and political damage. Russia and China's recent attempt to introduce an alternative international trading currency is about to fail as the Chinese economy is about to tank. However, other currencies have averaged out the volatility in current USA and European based currencies through the "off contract" growth of currency hedging. In other words, a contract in US dollars isn't really a contract in US dollars any more.

However, Europe has one advantage which is the English Equity courts. (See...All that messy English history finally paid off). A larger German company contracting with a Russian company, will have conditional clauses on dispute resolution in the English equity courts. ( Yes, it is weird but logical.....because these courts are fair, not through government control, but through independent English common law, which the UK government can't influence.)

Oddly the seventh most traded currency on the planet is the humble Australian dollar. The reason is simple. The Australian dollar is already "an average basket of every other country's currency, because like New Zealand, we trade with everyone on the planet due to our distance. People buy Australian dollars as an alternative to hedging insurance against other currency volatility.

The bottomline is the USA is simply reverting to being one partner in the many partner economies that make up the world's economy. Therefore we should support the USA's economy in the same way we support all other economies, if and when the USA's economy needs help. That's what partners do.

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by Lance Kennedy » Mon Jul 13, 2015 2:03 am

To supervitor

Why printing money leads to economic disaster, in most cases.

ZImbabwe is the classic. Due to their crappy economy after Robert Mugabe took over and screwed it thoroughly, he tried to make up for lack of money by printing more. The trouble is, that flooded the market with Zimbabwean dollars. Vendors realised this, and charged more for their products and services, and soon inflation took off at a rate that was literally astronomical. At one stage, trillion dollar notes were being issued, because anything less would not buy anything!

Of course, people lagged behind. They were being paid in billion dollar notes when you needed a trillion to buy a loaf of bread. Suffering is the result. Printing money leads to inflation, and inflation means many people suffering due to lagging behind in earnings as prices soar. It also prevents saving money, which loses value in the bank, and that has major adverse consequences also.

Back to parasitism.

I know that the well read people here will be familiar with the TANSTAAFL principle. (There aint no such thing as a free lunch.) The thing is, though, that while the lunch has to be paid for, quite often the person eating the lunch, if he is sneaky enough, will not be the person paying for it. That is exploitation, or (as I put it) parasitism.

In this case, the USA gains a bit more of our hypothetical lunch without paying for it, through the tactic of printing money without paying the inflationary cost of printing money. This is achieved through exploiting others - meaning the rest of the world that uses that money in trade. The high standard of living in the USA is partly due to parasitising everyone else.

To Matthew

While the US dollar may well be reverting to becoming just another trading currency, it has not yet happened, and it is still the leading trading currency. This may, or may not change. As of now, their dominant position permits parasitism.

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by supervitor » Mon Jul 13, 2015 2:27 am

Lance Kennedy wrote: Why printing money leads to economic disaster, in most cases.
No
ZImbabwe is the classic. Due to their crappy economy after Robert Mugabe took over and screwed it thoroughly, he tried to make up for lack of money by printing more. The trouble is, that flooded the market with Zimbabwean dollars. Vendors realised this, and charged more for their products and services, and soon inflation took off at a rate that was literally astronomical. At one stage, trillion dollar notes were being issued, because anything less would not buy anything!

Of course, people lagged behind. They were being paid in billion dollar notes when you needed a trillion to buy a loaf of bread. Suffering is the result. Printing money leads to inflation, and inflation means many people suffering due to lagging behind in earnings as prices soar. It also prevents saving money, which loses value in the bank, and that has major adverse consequences also.
See? Now we're talking. Not just with basic simplified views of reality (like shoes stores), but actually with real historical examples. Can you now point me the basic distinctions between the USA and Zimbabwe's economies and how they were/are managed (so you can finally realise where your premise was wrong)?

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by Lance Kennedy » Mon Jul 13, 2015 2:37 am

Supervitor

There are two basic differences between USA and Zimbabwe

1. The USA, while it may have been poorly managed in some ways, has an economy a thousand times as strong as Zimbabwe's. That strength comes more from private enterprise than government action.

2. The American dollar is in demend as an exchange medium for interntaional trade.

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by Lance Kennedy » Mon Jul 13, 2015 2:42 am

"Economist Paul Samuelson and others (including, at his death, Milton Friedman) have maintained that the overseas demand for dollars allows the United States to maintain persistent trade deficits without causing the value of the currency to depreciate or the flow of trade to readjust. But Samuelson stated in 2005 that at some uncertain future period these pressures would precipitate a run against the U.S. dollar with serious global financial consequences."

The above quote is from the Wiki description of the American dollar for international trade.

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Jul 13, 2015 3:12 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:To Matthew. While the US dollar may well be reverting to becoming just another trading currency, it has not yet happened, and it is still the leading trading currency. This may, or may not change. As of now, their dominant position permits parasitism.
Sure, but the problem is solving itself. Increased "Off contract" Foreign exchange hedging is reducing the flexibility of US currency defined in contracts. If I'm Russian and I sell Germany a gas contract in USD, I still hedge the USD liability into roubles or rely on my USA foreign currency reserves. That's how it works.

China is still sitting on 1.2 trillion in USA foreign currency reserves for the above reason. As china is tanking economically, it will start dumping these reserves. Therefore the USD will become more volatile and more foreign exchange hedging will taken out by Non-USA contract stakeholders holding USD defined contracts.

I cant see how the USA's former strong dollar is an ongoing problem. I'm more worried about the collapse of China's economy on all the world's economies. I think we are about to see how much damage a controlled economy can do when disguised as semi capitalistic.

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by Lance Kennedy » Mon Jul 13, 2015 3:21 am

Matthew

I am not suggesting that the strong dollar is a problem. And I agree that China suffering an economic collapse will be a genuine global economic problem. I was merely expressing something that kinda bemuses me. The USA is bolstering its general standard of living by parasitising the rest of the world.

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by supervitor » Mon Jul 13, 2015 3:33 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:Supervitor

There are two basic differences between USA and Zimbabwe

1. The USA, while it may have been poorly managed in some ways, has an economy a thousand times as strong as Zimbabwe's. That strength comes more from private enterprise than government action.
Great :) (I'm also infering from your "poorly managed in some ways" that you imply that it is much better managed than Zimbabwe's were.

So, are you ready now to correct your premise that "printing money leads to economic disaster"?

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by Lance Kennedy » Mon Jul 13, 2015 3:42 am

Supervitor

In my OP, I already pointed out that printing money did not lead to economic disaster in the case of the USA, and I showed the reason why. But printing money is not normally a good idea. For most cases, if done modestly, the outcome is a mild case of inflation, and possibly a small drop in the value of the currency. Zimbabwe is an extreme case, but illustrates the principle. Generally, printing money is not considered to be a great idea, unless done with extreme caution.

What makes the USA unusual is that they print vast amounts of money without nasty consequences. No other nation I am aware of could get away with that.

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by supervitor » Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:08 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:Supervitor

In my OP, I already pointed out that printing money did not lead to economic disaster in the case of the USA, and I showed the reason why.
That reason is wrong. You're basing it on an wrong assumption that it would lead to disaster if not for "your reason". I thought I had already showed you why the assumption was wrong. (look at my previous post)
But printing money is not normally a good idea. For most cases, if done modestly, the outcome is a mild case of inflation, and possibly a small drop in the value of the currency. Zimbabwe is an extreme case, but illustrates the principle. Generally, printing money is not considered to be a great idea, unless done with extreme caution.
When you go get extreme cases and apply them as a principle, you'll make mistakes. Do you accept this or should I give an example of this happening? (again, think in reality)
What makes the USA unusual is that they print vast amounts of money without nasty consequences. No other nation I am aware of could get away with that.
It's not unusual. You're just making the wrong assumption.

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by Lance Kennedy » Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:06 am

Supervitor

It is not my assumption. This is a widely accepted principle in economics.

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by supervitor » Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:35 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:Supervitor

It is not my assumption. This is a widely accepted principle in economics.
It is on the economics you study, perhaps. Reality, however, proves it is a wrong assumption. Again, think in history. You can ignore USA, since your wrong assumption leads you to think in another explanation for why it hasn't destroyed itself (you might not get there until you get ride of the assumption). Look elsewhere.

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by Lance Kennedy » Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:41 am

Stop playing games, supervitor.
If you have an opinion, state it. If it seems crackpot, I will tell you so.

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Jul 13, 2015 6:20 am

Lance Kennedy wrote: It is not my assumption. This is a widely accepted principle in economics.
Printing money is a great way to cause hyperinflation.
images (1).jpg
One weird contrary example is the USA before the 1863 banking act. Back then, over 1200 banks printed different USA currencies. There was so many counterfeit notes in the expanding west and even the "Fake spotting" hand books were counterfeit, so the locals kept using "funny money" as they had no choice. However it that is a unique example about a particular economic environment. There is good book on this period and the economics at the time.
51q87mWIiiL._SY344_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg
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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by supervitor » Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:49 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:Stop playing games, supervitor.
If you have an opinion, state it. If it seems crackpot, I will tell you so.
I've explained to you, Lance. Actually, you got there by yourself: Bigger and better managed economies can afford to devalue their currency if they need to: the money gets back to the economy, it will grow, it will not get "destroyed".

Simple. That's your wrong assumption. Don't think Zimbabwe, think New Deal, think Western economies (before the Euro)

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by supervitor » Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:50 am

(Sorry for my late reply, Lance, I was taking care of some business elsewhere)

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by supervitor » Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:13 am

Think Greece now!! It doesn't have a currency to devalue, Europe isn't trying to help: it has to take austerity measuraments to pay the bills! Where is that leading Greece? To the destruction!! (25% contraction in 5 years?). If they could have printed money, the currency would devalue a bit, but the economy wouldn't "break", it would probably grow!

See?

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:36 am

supervitor wrote:Think Greece now!! It doesn't have a currency to devalue, Europe isn't trying to help: it has to take austerity measuraments to pay the bills! Where is that leading Greece? To the destruction!! (25% contraction in 5 years?). If they could have printed money, the currency would devalue a bit, but the economy wouldn't "break", it would probably grow!
...and what exact reserves or assets would Greece back these new Bearer Notes? (Reintroduction of Drachma as currency).

Is the government going to nationalise companies and back the currency with that? What is your economic model for claiming the Greek economy would grow? (Any example from history will do.)

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by supervitor » Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:46 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
supervitor wrote:Think Greece now!! It doesn't have a currency to devalue, Europe isn't trying to help: it has to take austerity measuraments to pay the bills! Where is that leading Greece? To the destruction!! (25% contraction in 5 years?). If they could have printed money, the currency would devalue a bit, but the economy wouldn't "break", it would probably grow!
...and what exact reserves or assets would Greece back these new Bearer Notes? (Reintroduction of Drachma as currency).

Is the government going to nationalise companies and back the currency with that? What is your economic model for claiming the Greek economy would grow? (Any example from history will do.)
You're reading me wrongly, Matthew. Try again. Remember, you must understand the context. Come on, this is easy

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by supervitor » Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:57 am

I'll help, Matthew.
My previous response to Lance with added bolds for the benefit of Matthew wrote: Simple. That's your wrong assumption. Don't think Zimbabwe, think New Deal, think Western economies (before the Euro)
Now, do you need more help from me, or are you happy?

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by supervitor » Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:01 am

Remember we're talking about reality, Matthew. Not imagination of certain types of economists (that I suspect Lance may have been reading)

(you should probably read the all thread, from the beginning)

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:09 am

supervitor wrote:Remember we're talking about reality, Matthew. Not imagination of certain types of economists (that I suspect Lance may have been reading)
I'm a tax lawyer with an economics degree.

What model are you offering as an example to support GDP growth, when an economy printing money, is not backed by any reserve, assets or bonds? You do have an example don't you? It's your claim,

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:11 am

Matthew Ellard wrote: Is the government going to nationalise companies and back the currency with that? What is your economic model for claiming the Greek economy would grow? (Any example from history will do.)
supervitor wrote: You're reading me wrongly, Matthew. Try again. Remember, you must understand the context. Come on, this is easy
So you just made up your claim. OK. I already guessed that.
:D

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by supervitor » Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:31 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote: Is the government going to nationalise companies and back the currency with that? What is your economic model for claiming the Greek economy would grow? (Any example from history will do.)
supervitor wrote: You're reading me wrongly, Matthew. Try again. Remember, you must understand the context. Come on, this is easy
Come on Matthew, I've already shown you

So you just made up your claim. OK. I already guessed that.
:D
Matthew, be plain, please. What is it that you're asking? I've already told you we're talking about reality. And gave you the answer.

(are you upset about today? you should learn the lesson, you know?)

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by Tom Palven » Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:36 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Russia and China's recent attempt to introduce an alternative international trading currency is about to fail as the Chinese economy is about to tank.


One economist or another has been saying every day for about 20 years now that the Chinese economy is about to tank. It would be easier to convince me that the US economy, seemingly based on the Greek model, is about to tank.

China isn't just an economic Paper Tiger, it has huge industrial infrastructure that can't simply just vanish no matter what stock markets do, imho.
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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by Lance Kennedy » Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:04 pm

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._H._D ... ial_Credit

Supervitor

You are not a supporter of the discredited theories of Douglas, are you? (Reference above).

There is one situation where printing money is OK. That is in an expanding economy, where the extra money merely covers the extra wealth being produced.

My point about the USA is that this situation is real, but the expanding wealth comes from overseas, other people's efforts. Thus, the idea that the American economy is partially parasitic.

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by supervitor » Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:57 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._H._D ... ial_Credit

Supervitor

You are not a supporter of the discredited theories of Douglas, are you? (Reference above).

There is one situation where printing money is OK. That is in an expanding economy, where the extra money merely covers the extra wealth being produced.

My point about the USA is that this situation is real, but the expanding wealth comes from overseas, other people's efforts. Thus, the idea that the American economy is partially parasitic.
I don't know Douglas, sorry.
That is in an expanding economy
Exactly! This is where you've gone wrong on your Opening Post. You're ignoring the fact that the USA is a well-managed economy, an "expanding economy", in your words now.

you say:
Lance Kennedy wrote: One of the things that has puzzled me in the past is how the US economy manages to survive.
but it shouldn't puzzle you it hasn't destroyed itself. That's your wrong premise. Once you realise that, there's no need to look for alternative explanations.

Like this:
Lance Kennedy wrote: Anywhere else, this tactic would lead to a major devaluing of the currency and severe inflation. It would be an economic disaster.
it's contradicted by reality: anywhere else, it's how it's done. And for extreme cases, all you have to do is look at the southern european economies, that many times have devalued their currencies, never "leading to disaster", Italy (G7 country) being the most striking example. The Greek case nowadays is to make clear what can happen if a country does not have a currency to devalue: that's what I call an economic disaster.

Your conclusion is then irrelevant (although it also has mistakes by itself)

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:43 pm

supervitor wrote: Matthew, be plain, please.
I can't be any plainer without drawing pictures for you.
supervitor wrote: What is it that you're asking?
You said, concerning Greece, that "If they could have printed money, the currency would devalue a bit, but the economy wouldn't "break", it would probably grow!"

I am asking you what economic model are you holding out to back that bizarre claim. The Greek economy shrank after the last two bailouts. It is obvious that you don't have any model that indicates "growth from printing money", you made up the "it will probably grow" on the spot, and you have no understanding of basic economics.

Is that clear enough for you, Norma II.
:D

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by supervitor » Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:14 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
supervitor wrote: Matthew, be plain, please.
I can't be any plainer without drawing pictures for you.
supervitor wrote: What is it that you're asking?
You said, concerning Greece, that "If they could have printed money, the currency would devalue a bit, but the economy wouldn't "break", it would probably grow!"

I am asking you what economic model are you holding out to back that bizarre claim. The Greek economy shrank after the last two bailouts. It is obvious that you don't have any model that indicates "growth from printing money", you made up the "it will probably grow" on the spot, and you have no understanding of basic economics.
It is obvious for me that you're not interpreting the context, Matthew. If you were able to do that, you wouldn't be asking stupid questions.

I'm talking about reality. I don't need to give you any name for an economic model: just think "West", is this clear?

If I mention a specific case, like Greece, why don't you assume it's Greece's economic model?

Just in case, I'll expand my initial post that has got you confused you with all its implicit meaning:
Trying to break through Matthew's difficulty in understanding context by adding square brackets wrote: Think Greece now!! It doesn't have a currency to devalue [like it had before the Euro], Europe isn't trying to help: it has to take austerity measuraments to pay the bills! [before, it could have just devalued its currency, like it has happened in the past]. Where is that leading Greece? To the destruction!! (25% contraction in 5 years?) [this hasn't happened in other crisis, before the Euro, in fact the opposite happened]. If they could have printed money, the currency would devalue a bit [like before], but the economy wouldn't "break", it would probably grow! [like before]
Is that clear enough for you, Norma II.
:D

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:12 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:I am asking you what economic model are you holding out to back that bizarre claim. The Greek economy shrank after the last two bailouts. It is obvious that you don't have any model that indicates "growth from printing money", you made up the "it will probably grow" on the spot, and you have no understanding of basic economics.
supervitor wrote:I'm talking about reality. I don't need to give you any name for an economic model: just think "West", is this clear?
I see. Your best exemplary model is "just think West". In other words, you cant offer one real example from real economies in the "West, South, East or North", that matches your bizarre claims. I didn't think so. You can't even offer a hypothetical economic model.

"Reality" is a funny thing. It is full of "real examples". If you can't find one "real example" for your claim, just say so.

:D

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by supervitor » Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:16 am

you're stupid, Matthew, sorry to say.

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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:21 am

supervitor wrote:you're stupid, Matthew, sorry to say.
Translation : " No Matthew I can't find one example to back up my ridiculous claim. Norma II"
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Re: Is the USA an economic parasite?

Post by supervitor » Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:24 am

Are you upset about something, little Matthew? Did it happen again, is that it?