Jeb Bush: People Need to Work Longer Hours.

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Jeb Bush: People Need to Work Longer Hours.

Post by Frank Hoffman » Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:32 pm

Jeb Bush:
“My aspiration for the country and I believe we can achieve it, is 4 percent growth as far as the eye can see. Which means we have to be a lot more productive, workforce participation has to rise from its all-time modern lows. It means that people need to work longer hours” and, through their productivity, gain more income for their families. That's the only way we're going to get out of this rut that we're in.”

My response:
During each hour of work, a certain amount of your effort (1) accrues to you in the form of wages, a certain amount of your effort (2) goes to pay your supervisors and provide profit for the company shareholders, also a certain amount of your effort (3) goes to the government. One problem is number 2; to help the economy, affluent people need to spend their money (resource small business to increase jobs) rather than sit on it. Also since there is not a one-to-one relationship between money flowing into the government and that flowing out to persons who would use it in the short term, that friction is a net loss for government (actually going to number 2). However even if numbers 2 and 3 did stimulate the economy, technology allows us to require fewer people to make the things that we want. Working more hours will simply decrease labor value, not help the economy.

In what am I in error?

Edit: Also, for more people to work more hours in total, initially corporations in total would have to employ workers in excess of actual requirements so as to provide the public with the means to purchase what the corporations produce. If initially companies in total fail to pay workers more than what is appropriate for what the workers produce, the economy will not grow enough to support those workers.

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Re: Jeb Bush: People Need to Work Longer Hours.

Post by Harte » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:06 pm

Work longer hours means work full time, as many jobs have been trimmed into part time positions by employers that don't want to pay for health care, and etc.

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Re: Jeb Bush: People Need to Work Longer Hours.

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:17 pm

Harte wrote:Work longer hours means work full time, as many jobs have been trimmed into part time positions by employers that don't want to pay for health care, and etc.

Harte
So when he came to the point where he should have said "full employment" he substituted a phrase that shows he doesn't understand the topic?
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Re: Jeb Bush: People Need to Work Longer Hours.

Post by Pyrrho » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:30 pm

How is that going to square with the order my boss gave me, which was, "We have to work faster!"
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Re: Jeb Bush: People Need to Work Longer Hours.

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:42 pm

I didn't know you actually had a job.
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Re: Jeb Bush: People Need to Work Longer Hours.

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:55 pm

Frank Hoffman wrote: In what am I in error?
You are not in error at all.

I would like to add that there is no purpose in having people work longer hours if there is no demand for their product. China has had a lovely time producing 50 million empty home units, because it stimulated the economy beyond the actual demand. It was good for propaganda purposes, but now China's economy is about to sink with a massive amount of inventory sitting in warehouses.

I feel some sympathy for politicians in that a good economic policy cannot be explained with short buzz expressions. I think that we, as citizen voters, need to share the blame in that we want short buzz phrases. It's a long term educational goal, I guess, to get everyone to be prepared to sit down and read the top parties detailed policies for ten minutes before each election. Perhaps we should have a half day "policy thinking" holiday before each election and all parties should release a document for that day. ( It may cut down on political advertising) :D

As for work hours, my brighter boss, told me when I was starting in accounting, that my income would be tied to marginal increases in my hourly charge rate, for the rest of my life, unless I moved into commissions or profit sharing. That was probably the most important lesson I ever had. I stopped being an accountant and became a management consultant on fee VS commission deals.

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Re: Jeb Bush: People Need to Work Longer Hours.

Post by JO 753 » Fri Jul 10, 2015 4:06 am

Frank Hoffman wrote:In what am I in error?
You posted it in the rong topic. Shoud go in Jokes.
Pyrrho wrote:How is that going to square with the order my boss gave me, which was, "We have to work faster!"
Faster and harder. No room for slackerz. In many situationz, bossez will need to find wayz to obstruct the work in order to make it more difficult.

At sum point soon, maybe 2025, 2030, the leaderz (wutever the hell that meanz) are going to hav to admit that the old game iz over; no more pay for work. Then the base pay situation haz to be renegotiated to aknolej the fact that the desendents uv rich people dont dezerv to be getting everything.
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Re: Jeb Bush: People Need to Work Longer Hours.

Post by TJrandom » Fri Jul 10, 2015 4:42 am

Who knows what he meant to say, but from my experience, I never met a person who didn`t want to work more hours if that meant extra pay. So it isn`t the worker he needs to address, but rather the employer.

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Re: Jeb Bush: People Need to Work Longer Hours.

Post by JO 753 » Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:22 am

Now you hav.
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Re: Jeb Bush: People Need to Work Longer Hours.

Post by TJrandom » Fri Jul 10, 2015 10:18 am

JO 753 wrote:Now you hav.
No I haven`t.... :)

Wait... have we met? ;)

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Re: Jeb Bush: People Need to Work Longer Hours.

Post by Tom Palven » Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:09 am

When Bush says "My aspiration for the country..." what does he even mean by country? Purple mountains with majesty? Sweet land of liberty?

Who is he talking about? John Doe and Mrs. Jones? Mrs. Lopez who works for two cleaning services? Donald Trump? Diane Feinstein? The entire US bureaucracy around Washington, DC.

What and who in the name of Sweet Baby Jesus is the man talking about?

It's kind of like kids should be forced to spend more time in school so that "we" can catch up with the Japanese, or the Chinese, or somebody.
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Re: Jeb Bush: People Need to Work Longer Hours.

Post by TJrandom » Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:03 pm

He doesn`t need to be making sense - all he needs to do is create the illusion that he is making sense, and that isn`t so hard to do when 50% of the voters are of below average intelligence.

Besides – the US will never catch up with Japan and China, unless that International Date Line is moved.

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Re: Jeb Bush: People Need to Work Longer Hours.

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:28 pm

TJrandom wrote:Who knows what he meant to say, but from my experience, I never met a person who didn`t want to work more hours if that meant extra pay.
I'd like to introduce you to my wife. She has RA and OA and getting through a 40 hour week costs her.
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Re: Jeb Bush: People Need to Work Longer Hours.

Post by JO 753 » Fri Jul 10, 2015 2:22 pm

'Meet' aint wut it uzed to be.

I wuz in grammar skool wen I realized that the entire work-for-money thing wuz for chumps. I think it wuz sum newz story about how much Kareem Abdul Jabbar got paid that clued me in.

Theze dayz tho, I dont begruj the ball playerz and movie starz their outsized paycheks. They hav a talent that peepl willingly pay to see. Its the worthless money shufflerz and career megacorp executivez who grab 1,000 timez wut the job iz worth and still get paid wen they drive the company or the entire economy into the ditch.

I sell az little uv my time az I can.
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Re: Jeb Bush: People Need to Work Longer Hours.

Post by TJrandom » Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:39 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
TJrandom wrote:Who knows what he meant to say, but from my experience, I never met a person who didn`t want to work more hours if that meant extra pay.
I'd like to introduce you to my wife. She has RA and OA and getting through a 40 hour week costs her.
Yikes - my sympathies.

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Re: Jeb Bush: People Need to Work Longer Hours.

Post by TJrandom » Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:46 pm

JO 753 wrote: ... I sell az little uv my time az I can.
I always went the other way and it paid off in accumulated savings and in funding donations too. Forced to do so by poverty, hunger, and a fear that it could come back. I never recognized any particular skill that I could exploit, so I exploited my body by working more than anyone around me. I am happy that is now over and I can concentrate on working long hours on my hobbies, or not.

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Re: Jeb Bush: People Need to Work Longer Hours.

Post by supervitor » Fri Jul 10, 2015 10:52 pm

Frank Hoffman wrote:Jeb Bush:
“My aspiration for the country and I believe we can achieve it, is 4 percent growth as far as the eye can see. Which means we have to be a lot more productive, workforce participation has to rise from its all-time modern lows. It means that people need to work longer hours” and, through their productivity, gain more income for their families. That's the only way we're going to get out of this rut that we're in.”

My response:
During each hour of work, a certain amount of your effort (1) accrues to you in the form of wages, a certain amount of your effort (2) goes to pay your supervisors and provide profit for the company shareholders, also a certain amount of your effort (3) goes to the government. One problem is number 2; to help the economy, affluent people need to spend their money (resource small business to increase jobs) rather than sit on it. Also since there is not a one-to-one relationship between money flowing into the government and that flowing out to persons who would use it in the short term, that friction is a net loss for government (actually going to number 2). However even if numbers 2 and 3 did stimulate the economy, technology allows us to require fewer people to make the things that we want. Working more hours will simply decrease labor value, not help the economy.

In what am I in error?

Edit: Also, for more people to work more hours in total, initially corporations in total would have to employ workers in excess of actual requirements so as to provide the public with the means to purchase what the corporations produce. If initially companies in total fail to pay workers more than what is appropriate for what the workers produce, the economy will not grow enough to support those workers.
Jebbyboy here is trying to make an emotional appeal to the strong sentiment people have to their work and contribution to society and shifting it in a way to convince us "all is good in the present system" and "if change is needed it's only people should work even more", which is a non-sense, because it only benefits rich people (the shareholders), not us.

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Re: Jeb Bush: People Need to Work Longer Hours.

Post by Harte » Sat Jul 11, 2015 2:36 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Harte wrote:Work longer hours means work full time, as many jobs have been trimmed into part time positions by employers that don't want to pay for health care, and etc.

Harte
So when he came to the point where he should have said "full employment" he substituted a phrase that shows he doesn't understand the topic?
I don't write his statements, but the phrase "full employment" has it's own meaning, and it's not full-time work.

Also, I didn't try to find a source and read all of what he said. I'm just going on what was quoted.

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Re: Jeb Bush: People Need to Work Longer Hours.

Post by Lausten » Sat Jul 11, 2015 3:15 pm

I think he was sincere in wanting to get people working, but he's trying to avoid saying anything about raising the minimum wage or wages in general. I don't see a strategy that can work for him.
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