Why non-Americans have a problem with America...

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Scott Mayers
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Why non-Americans have a problem with America...

Post by Scott Mayers » Sat Jan 25, 2014 5:23 am

One major problem that does not get recognized by Americans is that while many believe that they are a major promoter of what is termed 'democracy' to the rest of the world, the effective function of most American businesses to do this is to capture the economic control of another country but leave their political structure unable to provide accountability to the citizens of those countries.

A case in point is your neighbor to the North, Canada. Although we are 'democratic', American investors force us to pay more for both your products as well as our own to an average of 20-100% markup EVEN while our dollars are on par! Canadian owned businesses are even required to charge more to its citizens and under-price them for American consumers. Although Canada had what was called a 'free trade' agreement to them which required these imbalances illegitimate, all it does is to enable American products and services to be more prevalent in Canada often with no ability to any right of redress. Another important factor is that the American government encourages other countries to have as right-wing political persuasions to be in power because one of their major functioning philosophies is to deregulate marketplaces and thus hand over government to non-accountable businesses, especially those American owned ones, to the citizens of that country.

While this may be beneficial to Americans by lower prices, the affect on members of non-American members of other countries to highly abusive. Not even the invisible hand of such 'free' markets is able to help because America works as a perfect monopoly by their powers to take over all major industries in a country like Canada with a minimized population.

Note that while I AM Canadian, I understand how this can occur without an intent to do harm. But usually, just as the bystander effect works in psychology, we all inherently pay attention to ourselves under the belief that others actually do have alternate means of getting real help on their own. This is a human problem, not an American one. One way that I think Americans can help is to just simply be provided a means to hear; it makes it easier for others outside to also want to listen better. If taxation without representation was the initial justification for Americas origin, its policies have way more power in this day to enslave the rest of the world AND make most other Americans think otherwise.
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Re: Why non-Americans have a problem with America...

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:07 am

Show us an example, using a simple product, and take into account Canadian and US sales tax, American federal subsidies, tax on comparative domestic firms and input tax credits upon export, etc so we can perform a comparative cost analysis together.

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Re: Why non-Americans have a problem with America...

Post by Martin Brock » Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:53 pm

I'm an American (U.S. citizen) who has worked a lot in Canada, particularly Toronto. Prices for comparable goods are higher in Canada, but I doubt that U.S. law is responsible for the difference. If Canadian owned businesses charge Canadians more than Americans for the same goods, I suppose Canadian law and Canadian economics accounts for the difference.

For example, a direct flight from Atlanta to Toronto using Delta/Air Canada is incredibly expensive compared to a Delta flight from Atlanta to Buffalo, New York. The difference is often $500 or more, though today it's a little under $400. Since Buffalo is only a hundred miles south of Toronto, I typically fly to Buffalo, rent a car and drive across the border rather than fly directly to Toronto.

Why is the extra hundred miles by air so costly? I don't know, but if the U.S. somehow imposes the added cost on Canadians (and Americans as well), I'd like to see some evidence. I rather suppose that Canadian regulations, union contracts and related monopoly rents account for the difference. We have plenty of monopoly rents on the U.S. side of the border as well, but I don't see how the U.S. can impose these rents on Air Canada's customers.
Last edited by Martin Brock on Sat Jan 25, 2014 4:02 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Why non-Americans have a problem with America...

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:59 pm

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Re: Why non-Americans have a problem with America...

Post by OlegTheBatty » Sat Jan 25, 2014 4:29 pm

Martin Brock wrote:I'm an American (U.S. citizen) who has worked a lot in Canada, particularly Toronto. Prices for comparable goods are higher in Canada, but I doubt that U.S. law is responsible for the difference. If Canadian owned businesses charge Canadians more than Americans for the same goods, I suppose Canadian law and Canadian economics accounts for the difference.

For example, a direct flight from Atlanta to Toronto using Delta/Air Canada is incredibly expensive compared to a Delta flight from Atlanta to Buffalo, New York. The difference is often $500 or more, though today it's a little under $400. Since Buffalo is only a hundred miles south of Toronto, I typically fly to Buffalo, rent a car and drive across the border rather than fly directly to Toronto.

Why is the extra hundred miles by air so costly? I don't know, but if the U.S. somehow imposes the added cost on Canadians (and Americans as well), I'd like to see some evidence. I rather suppose that Canadian regulations, union contracts and related monopoly rents account for the difference. We have plenty of monopoly rents on the U.S. side of the border as well, but I don't see how the U.S. can impose these rents on Air Canada's customers.
Some of it is regulations, some of it is due to Canada being a smaller market. Fuel prices are a fair bit higher here due to taxation. There are also some differences that produce a lot of blather but little enlightenment.
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Re: Why non-Americans have a problem with America...

Post by Scott Mayers » Sun Jan 26, 2014 4:56 am

On CBC's Marketplace (http://www.cbc.ca/marketplace/episodes/ ... nfidential" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and http://www.cbc.ca/marketplace/episodes/ ... price-wars" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;), these issues were addressed. As what they had determined in these shows, we are given a separate price list for our country such that even the retailers have no choice but to accept. It is not due to any free market behavior though. It is due to the companies, mostly American (including the ones native to Canada), that are being forcing us to take it or leave it by American standards. Our option to leave it though presents problems because our country made a free trade agreement with you guys in the past that enabled mostly American immobilization of our market through successful takeovers and monopolies. While many of these companies are considered "Canadian" they are all based on International Corporations that especially favor American interests. Walmart is such an example. But there is nothing our lawmaking process can do to change it except for forcing a closing of our boarders and forcing us to buy local.

For particular examples, see the above documentaries if you have the time and patience.
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Re: Why non-Americans have a problem with America...

Post by Scott Mayers » Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:04 am

OlegTheBatty wrote: Fuel prices are a fair bit higher here due to taxation. There are also some differences that produce a lot of blather but little enlightenment.
I'm confused. Are you Canadian or American? If you are American, you DO know that you have the cheapest oil and gas prices the world over to an unusual degree?
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Re: Why non-Americans have a problem with America...

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:09 am

Scott Mayers wrote:...But there is nothing our lawmaking process can do to change it except for forcing a closing of our boarders...
You really think eliminating them would help?
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Re: Why non-Americans have a problem with America...

Post by Martin Brock » Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:04 am

Scott Mayers wrote:I'm confused. Are you Canadian or American?
He's a Canadian. If you don't like Canadian fuel prices, you should be complaining to your own government. I have no idea why you blame the U.S. government for Canadian fuel prices. The U.S. government has plenty of its own sins, but your fuel prices are not among them. The U.S. imports oil from Canada.
Last edited by Martin Brock on Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why non-Americans have a problem with America...

Post by Martin Brock » Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:11 am

Scott Mayers wrote:It is due to the companies, mostly American (including the ones native to Canada), that are being forcing us to take it or leave it by American standards.
This statement is nonsense. Trade is not forced. If you don't like the price Americans offer you, then don't accept it.
Our option to leave it though presents problems because our country made a free trade agreement with you guys in the past that enabled mostly American immobilization of our market through successful takeovers and monopolies.
A free trade agreement does not compel Canadian companies to give better terms to Americans to Canadians, but even if it did, your own government negotiated a treaty with the U.S. discriminating against Canadians this way, you should be complaining to your government. I have no idea what you think you're accomplishing here.
But there is nothing our lawmaking process can do to change it except for forcing a closing of our boarders and forcing us to buy local.
So your prices are too high, and forbidding competition from WalMart is supposed to fix this problem? You're out of touch with reality.
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Re: Why non-Americans have a problem with America...

Post by Scott Mayers » Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:12 am

scrmbldggs wrote: You really think eliminating them would help?
If you mean eliminating borders, yeah! I wouldn't actually want to do without free access to any country.
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Re: Why non-Americans have a problem with America...

Post by Martin Brock » Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:30 am

I listened to one of your CBC episodes. In it, a Canadian woman describes buying a baby crib from the United States, only later to find the same crib for sale at a higher price in Canada. So forbidding her to buy the crib from the United States solves this problem how?

I would also love to eliminate the border between the U.S. and Canada. Then I could load a truck with Bayer aspirin, drive it across the border and sell it to Canadians for a fraction of what they're paying now and still make a handsome profit. So the question is: why is no one doing this now? Do you really believe that the U.S. government prevents it?

I've crossed the Canadian border many times. I've also traveled many times to the U.K., Italy, Spain, Denmark, Taiwan, the Netherlands, Chile, Argentina and the U.A.E. I've never had as much trouble crossing another border as I've had crossing the Canadian border.
Last edited by Martin Brock on Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:37 am, edited 3 times in total.
People associating freely respect norms of their choice, and relationships governed this way are necessarily interdependent.

More central authorities conquer by dividing, imposing norms channeling the value of synergy toward themselves.

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Re: Why non-Americans have a problem with America...

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:32 am

scrmbldggs wrote:
Scott Mayers wrote:...But there is nothing our lawmaking process can do to change it except for forcing a closing of our boarders...
You really think eliminating them would help?
Scott Mayers wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote: You really think eliminating them would help?
If you mean eliminating borders, yeah! I wouldn't actually want to do without free access to any country.
Is there someone prodding them when another one falls silent? :scratch:


Edit: added quotes
Last edited by scrmbldggs on Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why non-Americans have a problem with America...

Post by Scott Mayers » Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:48 am

Martin, I agree with you in principle. What I don't think you realize, however, is that your people feel compassion towards yourselves, for being able to represent favor towards your citizens, your government is transferring the benefits you gain by forcefully taking them away from other countries. Meanwhile, most average Americans contrarily believe that when they act to involve themselves in external affairs, their sincerity to help or foster change for others is good, like 'democratizing' or 'freeing' Iraq. What you are missing, for those of you who are, is that you cannot expect non-Americans to be deceived into thinking that your intentions are good while ignoring the bad, which highly outweigh them. My argument here was to show why non-Americans have this perception.

Another case in point, although somewhat indirectly, is what occurred when Americans complained about being spied on by their own government. Here is what will happen and has already occurred here: the government will use external governments to do the spying for them so that they have no accountability for doing it in exchange for the same favor in return. Here in Canada, we discovered that the NSA was granted permission to spy on our citizens here by our government. We were not granted particulars for top secret reasons and even if we should do anything that could possibly oust our government for such behavior, the U.S. would effectively create barriers to any such success -- even if it meant war. Although they will likely begin to use the same tactic by requesting Canadians to spy on Americans, if and when this is discovered, however, your government would provide concern to change. We literally have no military capacity or force comparable to those of the U.S. to conquer evils within our own borders regardless of what we do and have to count on the American government to initiate change by raising the conscious of your citizens to recognize the real impact you have on others.

Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, your democratic freedoms lies on its capacity to take it away from others, take over the economic control of other countries and abandon accountability to those citizens. Why do you think America hasn't attempted to annex us since colonial times? Ans. they have cleverly recognized that it is better only to appropriate economic power over other countries, keep the nuclear and chemical threats in their hands alone, and abort social responsibility to those citizens to a government that is 'manageable.'

Why do people also WANT to be Americans simultaneously? If you can't beat 'em, join 'em is the psychology. Besides, everyone (most of us, I think) know that you are just as good (or bad) people as we are but love what you are able to have. So don't think of it as an us-against-them thinking. I think of myself as intrinsically and culturally American in every way. I love the way your constitution has been set up, even though it could always use improvements, and wish that we were all one world without borders. (...leaving the 'under God' provisions, of course.)
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Re: Why non-Americans have a problem with America...

Post by Martin Brock » Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:50 am

Here's the same bottle of aspirin that your CBC program claims that I can buy for $6 while he pays $13 in Toronto. The Amazon price in the U.S. is $12. I shop at lot at Amazon and also at my local WalMart in Winder, Georgia. I strongly doubt that the price of this aspirin is anywhere near $6 at WalMart.

http://www.amazon.com/Bayer-Aspirin-Reg ... B001LFFPT4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Your CBC show compared Toronto prices to prices in Austin, Texas. Why didn't he compare Toronto prices to prices in Buffalo, New York? I suppose these aspirin are manufactured in Mexico.

Same aspirin at Walmart.com (in the U.S.), same price. Now, I'll guarantee you that my local Walmart doesn't charge much less.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Bayer-Low-Dos ... t/12444555" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Why non-Americans have a problem with America...

Post by Martin Brock » Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:59 am

Scott Mayers wrote:Martin, I agree with you in principle. What I don't think you realize, however, is that your people feel compassion towards yourselves, for being able to represent favor towards your citizens, your government is transferring the benefits you gain by forcefully taking them away from other countries.
I detest the United States government, particularly its foreign policy, as any of the regulars here will tell you, but you're barking up the wrong tree. The U.S. government is not raising your prices. Your own government is doing it to you. The U.S. imposes the cost of its empire on me (and the Iraqi children it kills), not on you.
People associating freely respect norms of their choice, and relationships governed this way are necessarily interdependent.

More central authorities conquer by dividing, imposing norms channeling the value of synergy toward themselves.

"Every man for himself" is the prescription of a state, not a free community. A state protects the poor from the rich only in fairy tales.

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Re: Why non-Americans have a problem with America...

Post by Austin Harper » Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:12 pm

Martin Brock wrote:I've crossed the Canadian border many times. I've also traveled many times to the U.K., Italy, Spain, Denmark, Taiwan, the Netherlands, Chile, Argentina and the U.A.E. I've never had as much trouble crossing another border as I've had crossing the Canadian border.
Same here. I've driven, flown, and boated across borders between the US, Canada, Mexico, Belgium, France, Germany, Switzerland, Italy, Greece, Japan, South Africa, and Swaziland. I actually had less of a problem driving a rental car with no registration across the border into Swaziland with my friend who the border guard thought was my gay lover (which is illegal) than I did driving my own car from Detroit into Windsor. Windsor back to Detroit was no problem.
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Re: Why non-Americans have a problem with America...

Post by fromthehills » Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:08 am

Austin Harper wrote:
Martin Brock wrote:I've crossed the Canadian border many times. I've also traveled many times to the U.K., Italy, Spain, Denmark, Taiwan, the Netherlands, Chile, Argentina and the U.A.E. I've never had as much trouble crossing another border as I've had crossing the Canadian border.
Same here. I've driven, flown, and boated across borders between the US, Canada, Mexico, Belgium, France, Germany, Switzerland, Italy, Greece, Japan, South Africa, and Swaziland. I actually had less of a problem driving a rental car with no registration across the border into Swaziland with my friend who the border guard thought was my gay lover (which is illegal) than I did driving my own car from Detroit into Windsor. Windsor back to Detroit was no problem.

Okay. I'll bite, Sweety. Why did the guard guess that you were lovers?

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Re: Why non-Americans have a problem with America...

Post by JO 753 » Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:47 am

Scott Mayers wrote:
OlegTheBatty wrote: Fuel prices are a fair bit higher here due to taxation. There are also some differences that produce a lot of blather but little enlightenment.
I'm confused. Are you Canadian or American? If you are American, you DO know that you have the cheapest oil and gas prices the world over to an unusual degree?
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124 dollarz a gallon?
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Re: Why non-Americans have a problem with America...

Post by scrmbldggs » Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:29 am

JO 753 wrote:
Scott Mayers wrote:
OlegTheBatty wrote: Fuel prices are a fair bit higher here due to taxation. There are also some differences that produce a lot of blather but little enlightenment.
I'm confused. Are you Canadian or American? If you are American, you DO know that you have the cheapest oil and gas prices the world over to an unusual degree?
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124 dollarz a gallon?
No. Per litre!! :mrgreen:


Cents, that is...
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Re: Why non-Americans have a problem with America...

Post by nmblum88 » Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:06 am

It should be some comfort, albeit a small one, for the naysayers about American character and intentions that the astounding low cost of gasoline that we still enjoy, has done us no good at all.
And in fact has left us with some severe practical and emotional problems that may never be adequately solved.
So cheap has our gasoline traditionally been that we now have a national habit of jumping in the car to go two blocks to the grocery.
" Walk" is the among the least used verbs in our lexicons.
Driving to junk food emporia could account for our now out of control national obesity.

But the worst result has been our failure to see the writing on the wall, as we neglected to provide cheap and adequate publics transportation in most of our cities, allowing the car to become the indispensable mode of travel from home to employment,one passenger to one car, befouling the air, requiring more and more roads, clogging the existing ones, requiring constant maintenance, parking, traffic jams, angst, road rage…
Chronic trauma…
And the possibility, certainly in the case of Los Angeles, the vast city BUILT by the car,for the car, of all commerce, education, recreation coming to a sudden end as the traffic jam to end all traffic jams bring us to a standstill that will never end.

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Re: Why non-Americans have a problem with America...

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:27 am

Next thread, "Why nobody worries about Canuckistan."
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Re: Why non-Americans have a problem with America...

Post by kennyc » Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:37 am

scrmbldggs wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:
Scott Mayers wrote:...But there is nothing our lawmaking process can do to change it except for forcing a closing of our boarders...
You really think eliminating them would help?
Scott Mayers wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote: You really think eliminating them would help?
If you mean eliminating borders, yeah! I wouldn't actually want to do without free access to any country.
Is there someone prodding them when another one falls silent? :scratch:


Edit: added quotes

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Re: Why non-Americans have a problem with America...

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:40 am

Have we repelled the boarders yet?
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Re: Why non-Americans have a problem with America...

Post by kennyc » Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:43 am

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Have we repelled the boarders yet?
I don't know but I'm tired of the aliens infiltrating the board.
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Re: Why non-Americans have a problem with America...

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:46 am

kennyc wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Have we repelled the boarders yet?
I don't know but I'm tired of the aliens infiltrating the board.
Sorry, I'll get my coat.
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Re: Why non-Americans have a problem with America...

Post by nmblum88 » Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:08 am

kennyc wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Have we repelled the boarders yet?
I don't know but I'm tired of the aliens infiltrating the board.

Surely you are joking, Not-Mr-Feynman.
Believe it or not…although obviously you can't allow yourself to believe it…. there are perfectly cogent and reasonable people who suspect YOU could be the alien.
As well as an infiltrator… the board having not only survived but thrived before you arrived and took it over.
(Alien infiltration often works that way).
Some of the most suspicious are actually working scientists.
And thus assess you, among your other errors in fact and judgment by your self-published essays on science which seem to be written in a language unrecognizable as belonging to earthlings.
And some of them are among those who actually engage in the real world and know the difference between wishing and something being so.
In other words, have some experience with the delusional.
But by all means carry on… it's a free Universe.

Norma Manna Blum
Skepticism:
" Norma, you poor sad lonely alcoholic. You entire life is devoted to interrupting other people's posts on this forum, regardless of the topic, to tell them what's wrong with them. The irony is, here you are doing it again, with this very post.
Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: Why non-Americans have a problem with America...

Post by octopus1 » Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:27 pm

nmblum wrote:
kennyc wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Have we repelled the boarders yet?
I don't know but I'm tired of the aliens infiltrating the board.

Surely you are joking, Not-Mr-Feynman.
Believe it or not…although obviously you can't allow yourself to believe it…. there are perfectly cogent and reasonable people who suspect YOU could be the alien.
As well as an infiltrator… the board having not only survived but thrived before you arrived and took it over.
(Alien infiltration often works that way).
Some of the most suspicious are actually working scientists.
And thus assess you, among your other errors in fact and judgment by your self-published essays on science which seem to be written in a language unrecognizable as belonging to earthlings.
And some of them are among those who actually engage in the real world and know the difference between wishing and something being so.
In other words, have some experience with the delusional.
But by all means carry on… it's a free Universe.

Norma Manna Blum
You keep mentioning "Scientists". But you yourself are not one. I mean, I hope not...! Lack of balance, refusal to compromise, could start a civil war in an empty room....

Your outbursts appear to occur in a pattern. It's useless asking what the problem is, because you refuse to say. If it's a personal issue, just tell me not to pry. The other possibility is that you yourself don't know what the problem is. Because, beyond a quick rant, there really isn't a problem at all.

What Kenny does, and what pretty much "everyone apart from Norma" does, is engage. Some of what people say that are ostensibly scientific are inaccurate. But they'll know better next time. And if I mention something that they know about - I'm sure I can make the most ridiculous mistakes myself!

So that leaves you, Norma. You ride into town, complain that people aren't answering the questions correctly (Hypocrisy, much?) then run away to hide again. What good is that?

Scratch that, what good is it my asking you at all...
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Re: Why non-Americans have a problem with America...

Post by Monster » Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:02 pm

Scott Mayers wrote:
OlegTheBatty wrote: Fuel prices are a fair bit higher here due to taxation. There are also some differences that produce a lot of blather but little enlightenment.
I'm confused. Are you Canadian or American? If you are American, you DO know that you have the cheapest oil and gas prices the world over to an unusual degree?
U.S. Canada
Today 3.275 124.042
Yesterday 3.278 124.146
One Week ago 3.277 123.234
One Month ago 3.256 122.390
One Year ago 3.309 118.526
Current Trend
According to this, Kuwait has the lowest price per gallon.

http://www.bloomberg.com/slideshow/2012 ... ml#slide59" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Why non-Americans have a problem with America...

Post by Scott Mayers » Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:44 am

Tonight on our news: http://globalnews.ca/news/1112419/sask- ... -with-u-s/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

This is just such an example of how regardless of what we choose in our policies have any force. Our free trade agreement with you is only honored one way, by us to you! Your government simply just does not honor what it doesn't want to because we have no force to alter it.

I just watched how Obama declared, smirkingly, that everyone loves you on some moral level. This is not true. While we love the realities that you get, it is due to the envy of the force you impose on the rest of us in unfortunate realities that we are not able to realize because of your bullying.

You've effectively reversed the concept of taxation without representation that the British imposed on you in a worse way to the rest of the world than the British ever did. What is different is that you hold all the nuclear weaponry to threaten every other nation from being able to redress ourselves in any way because you don't hold American business to account for external acts.
I eat without fear of certain Death from The Tree of Knowledge because with wisdom, we may one day break free from its mortal curse.

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Re: Why non-Americans have a problem with America...

Post by Scott Mayers » Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:00 am

4.74 dollars/gal (am) = 124 cents/Liter (can) I have to apologize for not providing this up front because it I cannot find any online conversions (that allow me to actually input figures) other than the comparison as I've presented it above.
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Re: Why non-Americans have a problem with America...

Post by JO 753 » Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:07 am

THATS why Americanz are better than Canadianz! We buy our gas by the gallon!
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Re: Why non-Americans have a problem with America...

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:09 am

Scott Mayers wrote:You've effectively reversed the concept of taxation without representation that the British imposed on you in a worse way to the rest of the world than the British ever did.
I have never read such rubbish in my life.

Martin and Oleg have clearly explained all the internal taxes, company tax rates, duties, government policies & subsidies and such like that cause for cost differences. I offered you a chance to provide a international comparative cost analysis on a retail product. You didn't provide one as you don't want to know what is actually going on.

Try reading the logic about the Economist's "Big Mac Index" ( which you seem to follow) then read about a proper comparative cost analysis and why it fails under Arrow's Impossibility theory. ( "Comparing apples and oranges")

If you want to bash America, do so in the politics forum but not in economics. Some of us have economics degrees.

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Re: Why non-Americans have a problem with America...

Post by Scott Mayers » Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:54 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Scott Mayers wrote:You've effectively reversed the concept of taxation without representation that the British imposed on you in a worse way to the rest of the world than the British ever did.
I have never read such rubbish in my life.

Martin and Oleg have clearly explained all the internal taxes, company tax rates, duties, government policies & subsidies and such like that cause for cost differences. I offered you a chance to provide a international comparative cost analysis on a retail product. You didn't provide one as you don't want to know what is actually going on.

Try reading the logic about the Economist's "Big Mac Index" ( which you seem to follow) then read about a proper comparative cost analysis and why it fails under Arrow's Impossibility theory. ( "Comparing apples and oranges")

If you want to bash America, do so in the politics forum but not in economics. Some of us have economics degrees.
Sorry, I've lost you buddy. I already gave you links to documentaries that give plenty of reasons for what you asked in particular. And no, its not about bashing Americans. People are the similar everywhere on being just as evil as they are good. My problem, as is the rest of the world's is that you get BS claims by American patriots of how morally superior and loved by everyone (and GOD!) while your screwing others. (Note that this doesn't mean all Americans either -- its unfortunate that a relative few people for who actually don't care for any sovereignty will feign it one anyways for economic purposes.) As for your asserted economics degree, I won't even go there. At least Martin did go to the referred site. But who is Oleg? But in any case I didn't see any clear educational description your referring to other than emotional backlash. I had to look up on what you are referring to as "Big Mac Index" and "Arrow's Impossibility theory"(???)

P.S. Economics, like Justice, are part of politics too! Just because you are likely a right-winger who believes in pretending that capital ownership does not impose rules because it isn't called, 'government by the people' your either naive or trying to brainwash others.
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Re: Why non-Americans have a problem with America...

Post by vanderpoel » Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:14 pm

The answer to the question: "Why non-Americans have a problem with America..." lies in the presupposition upon which the question is based, namely that:
"... non-Americans have a problem with America..."

If some non-Americans indeed have a problem with America then that is mostly because they can't get in. Other than that, any bad blood border dispute between Canadians and Americans is at best a drop compared to the soaked passages in the rest of the world.

A better title would have been: "Why I have a problem with America..."
You could still retain some anonymity. Or you could boldly admit your bias:
"I have a problem with America, eh?

Just trying to help...
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Re: Why non-Americans have a problem with America...

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:49 am

Scott Mayers wrote: Sorry, I've lost you buddy. I already gave you links to documentaries that give plenty of reasons for what you asked in particular.
I am not interested in you tube documentaries. I am interested in the actual comparative cost analysis that is fundamental to your entire claim! If you are unable to actually set out the very information that forms your claim then don't make the claim. This is the economics sub forum which, amazingly, occasionally requires the application of economic theory.
Scott Mayers wrote: My problem, as is the rest of the world's is that you get BS claims by American patriots of how morally superior and loved by everyone (and GOD!) while your screwing others.
And you don't get these same people in Russia? Iran? North Korea? England? Germany? You have simply singled out the USA.
Scott Mayers wrote:As for your asserted economics degree, I won't even go there.
Good idea. You wouldn't have a clue what I was talking about.
Scott Mayers wrote: I had to look up on what you are referring to as "Big Mac Index" and "Arrow's Impossibility theory"
So you haven't got a clue why the Big Mac Index was initiated by the Economist although it deals with your own baseless claims and is extremely well known? You didn't understand Arrow's Impossibility Theory although it knocks out the silly comparison you are trying to make.
Scott Mayers wrote: Just because you are likely a right-winger who believes in pretending that capital ownership does not impose rules because it isn't called, 'government by the people' your either naive or trying to brainwash others.
I'm a former member of the Australian Communist Party. Try harder next time and read some basic books about international economics, tax and comparative advantage.

http://www.princeton.edu/~ies/Fall13/ArnaudPaper.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Why non-Americans have a problem with America...

Post by Scott Mayers » Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:08 am

vanderpoel wrote:The answer to the question: "Why non-Americans have a problem with America..." lies in the presupposition upon which the question is based, namely that:
"... non-Americans have a problem with America..."

If some non-Americans indeed have a problem with America then that is mostly because they can't get in. Other than that, any bad blood border dispute between Canadians and Americans is at best a drop compared to the soaked passages in the rest of the world.

A better title would have been: "Why I have a problem with America..."
You could still retain some anonymity. Or you could boldly admit your bias:
"I have a problem with America, eh?

Just trying to help...
I know I'm brash here. I don't mean to make it seem like an us-agains-them attitude. I get what you're saying. I am just the same towards others here in Canada who do act similarly and find that I take a stance to protect American ideas. So, please don't think that I'm not cognizant of this. I could have quantified the title more appropriately as "Why some non-Americans have a problem with America..." The problem with this is that since, 'some', doesn't specify any actual number, it is usually defaulted in people's minds to fill in their own particular belief of what some means. Thus, if you believe that it is trivial, you'll interpret, "some", as being an insignificant number, which although I cannot provide consensus to in order to be prove otherwise, you as a reader could belittle what I personally believe is a more significant factor. Even if I was American, I would still argue similarly.
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Re: Why non-Americans have a problem with America...

Post by Scott Mayers » Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:23 am

Matthew,
I didn't state anything that required a degree in economics. I was airing how the perception of Americans by Americans is unusually arrogant in their presumed superior morality with respect to how they behave towards the rest of the world. And no, what you presume about other countries in regards to patriotism is false. For the most part, most countries do NOT place their flags in windows as if their Nation itself is a religion. The reason I placed this in the economics section is because it relates to economics. People in the rest of the world are NOT guided by Americas moral superiority (as Obama falsely declared); It is actually due to their economic (as well as political) power to actually affect the rest of the world while not believing they have to be accountable for the results of those behaviors.
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Re: Why non-Americans have a problem with America...

Post by Scott Mayers » Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:36 am

P.S. Matthew, those video links I provided are NOT youtube videos. One of them was one of our national news stories from I believe it was GlobalTV. The other two were references to a program on CBC (a publicly owned network like BBC, its British counterpart, or your PBS as a voluntary form.). The program is called MarketPlace. This is an economic consumer's advocacy program.
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Re: Why non-Americans have a problem with America...

Post by JO 753 » Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:03 am

Better title: Why Capitalist Pig-Dogz Are Hated Around the World

Then you coud hav gon on frum there about how greedy rich {!#%@} take advantaj uv everybody who haz less money and the less money you hav, the more greedy {!#%@} there are above you stealing everything they can wether they need it or not.

The reazonz why the US iz perseived az the home uv this bad behaviour iz then a valid direction for the discussion to take.

Let me start.

Its true! America may not hav invented capitalizm, but we took it to a whole nuther level and commonly tout it az the greatest & bestest thing, ignoring all the damaj and supression.

Other countriez hav taken a lesson and possibly even exeeded our profit at all costs stratejy. Its wen goverments actively support greedy {!#%@}, giving them unfair advantajez, that the system gets so out uv balans that its starts jenerating haterz.
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