US Economic Sanctions

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Tom Palven
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US Economic Sanctions

Post by Tom Palven » Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:12 am

Europeans may be getting uppity about obeying US sanctions:
https://news.antiwar.com/2019/04/18/eur ... with-cuba/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
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Re: US Economic Sanctions

Post by Tom Palven » Sat Apr 27, 2019 3:47 am

Can the US regime dictate who the Chinese may purchase oil from?
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKCN1S2238

Eric Margolis talks about these sanctions in greater detail:
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2019/04/eri ... -make-mad/

Interesting to me was the fact that although Matthew Ellard was in lockstep agreement with US neocons regarding sanctions against Russia, China, Turkey, North Korea, and Venezuela, he said that he opposed US sanctions against Iran, and I still don't understand this inconsistency.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
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Re: US Economic Sanctions

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:14 am

What did Matt say his opinion was based on? ie: if you want to waste your time, at least get specific?
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Re: US Economic Sanctions

Post by Tom Palven » Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:22 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:14 am
What did Matt say his opinion was based on? ie: if you want to waste your time, at least get specific?
I didn't understand what his exception for Iran was based on at the time, and doubt very much that if I went back and waded through all our dialogue in various threads that I would understand it now.

If he happens to be lurking, I hope that he will take a few minutes and try to clarify this puzzle.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
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Re: US Economic Sanctions

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:40 am

What did Matt say his opinion was based on? ie: if you want to waste your time, at least get specific?
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Re: US Economic Sanctions

Post by Tom Palven » Sat Apr 27, 2019 4:16 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:40 am
What did Matt say his opinion was based on? ie: if you want to waste your time, at least get specific?
I didn't understand what his exception for Iran was based on at the time, and doubt very much that if I went back and waded through all our dialogue in various threads that I would understand it now.

If he happens to be lurking, I hope that he will take a few minutes and try to clarify this puzzle.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: US Economic Sanctions

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Apr 27, 2019 4:28 pm

Gee Tom: all I am very simply asking for is "What did matt SAY????". I am NOT asking for an explanation/justification of it. IOW: if you can't even state your memory of what is said........what the freak is your concern??? : Its not even worthy to be remembered, but you are going to repeatedly post about it here?

Get out the patty cakes and your Mattel Wonder Baker.
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Re: US Economic Sanctions

Post by Tom Palven » Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:39 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 4:28 pm
Gee Tom: all I am very simply asking for is "What did matt SAY????". I am NOT asking for an explanation/justification of it. IOW: if you can't even state your memory of what is said........what the freak is your concern??? : Its not even worthy to be remembered, but you are going to repeatedly post about it here?

Get out the patty cakes and your Mattel Wonder Baker.
He said that he didn't think that the US should put economic sanctions on Iran.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
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Re: US Economic Sanctions

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Apr 28, 2019 11:35 am

He usually gives reasons.

but if you don't care.........why should anyone else?
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Re: US Economic Sanctions

Post by Tom Palven » Sun Apr 28, 2019 1:47 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 11:35 am
He usually gives reasons.

but if you don't care.........why should anyone else?
Yes, but he didn't in this case, that I can recall.

That doesn't mean that I'm not a caring person.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
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Re: US Economic Sanctions

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:42 pm

when you care about one issue, you are not caring about several others. Its unavoidable.
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Re: US Economic Sanctions

Post by Tom Palven » Mon May 20, 2019 7:29 am

On the complications of military-industrial economics:
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/05/ ... 24411.html
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
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Re: US Economic Sanctions

Post by ElectricMonk » Mon May 20, 2019 7:31 am

Tom Palven wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 7:29 am
On the complications of military-industrial economics:
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/05/ ... 24411.html
it's what any good NATO ally and EU member aspirant would do ...

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Re: US Economic Sanctions

Post by Gord » Mon May 20, 2019 9:17 am

Oh, that reminds me, Trump's tariffs on Canada appear to be over and done with for now: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tariff ... -1.5140031

Apparently Canada wasn't going to ratify the new NAFTA deal unless Trump ended the illegal tariffs -- gee, go figure! -- and Trump wants his NAFTA deal so bad. (Also, US farmers have apparently been up Trump's butt about it because they want to sell their products in Canada, which they can't do until the new NAFTA agreement goes into effect.)
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Re: US Economic Sanctions

Post by scrmbldggs » Mon May 20, 2019 10:24 am

...lack of object permanence...
.
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Re: US Economic Sanctions

Post by Tom Palven » Tue May 21, 2019 7:05 am

Sarcastic Chicago Tribune article about Trump's tariffs:
https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/ ... story.html
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: US Economic Sanctions

Post by Tom Palven » Sat May 25, 2019 11:37 am

If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: US Economic Sanctions

Post by OutOfBreath » Sat May 25, 2019 1:25 pm

Tom Palven wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 11:37 am
Faux emergency?
https://news.antiwar.com/2019/05/24/tru ... s-and-uae/
Those "emergencies" is just about the executive arm overruling the legislative one. Big loophole in division of powers. But the us seems to have enshrined several kinds of "executive privilege" the last couple of decades. Trump is different in that he doesnt even construct plausible justifications.

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Re: US Economic Sanctions

Post by landrew » Sat May 25, 2019 3:04 pm

OutOfBreath wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 1:25 pm
Tom Palven wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 11:37 am
Faux emergency?
https://news.antiwar.com/2019/05/24/tru ... s-and-uae/
Those "emergencies" is just about the executive arm overruling the legislative one. Big loophole in division of powers. But the us seems to have enshrined several kinds of "executive privilege" the last couple of decades. Trump is different in that he doesnt even construct plausible justifications.

Peace
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Republics can fall suddenly under the heel of charismatic demagogues, but fortunately this time he's a mentally and emotionally challenged nincompoop.
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Re: US Economic Sanctions

Post by OutOfBreath » Tue May 28, 2019 6:37 pm

landrew wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 3:04 pm
Republics can fall suddenly under the heel of charismatic demagogues, but fortunately this time he's a mentally and emotionally challenged nincompoop.
I shudder to think what a politically competent man with trumps general agenda could achieve.

Peace
Dan
What is perceived as real becomes real in its consequences.

"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert

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Re: US Economic Sanctions

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue May 28, 2019 8:39 pm

Sadly, nincompoops, even back stabbing egotists like Trump, gather an inner circle with various levels of competency that keep them in power...........like the Entire Republican Party especially McConnell.

The only things mitigating the Disaster of Trump is the four year election cycle and Trumps fanatical base only being about 30% (CAN YOU BELIEVE ITS THAT HIGH??????) of the electorate with another 10% very strongly supporting for their own perceived self interest (Judges, Abortion, Guns).

...............Oh, the humanity..............
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Re: US Economic Sanctions

Post by OlegTheBatty » Wed May 29, 2019 2:56 pm

OutOfBreath wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 6:37 pm
landrew wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 3:04 pm
Republics can fall suddenly under the heel of charismatic demagogues, but fortunately this time he's a mentally and emotionally challenged nincompoop.
I shudder to think what a politically competent man with trumps general agenda could achieve.

Peace
Dan
Most American institutions are inclusive, meaning that most people can take advantage of them. Everyone has access to education, financing for business enterprises, protection for ownership of property - physical and intellectual and so on. Dictatorships can't flourish in that environment, so the institutions need to be changed to forms that will support a dictatorship.

Like a stage magician, Trump is babbling away (tweeting gibberish or inflamatory garbage and stuff like that) to distract the audience from what his hands are doing. In the meantime for example, he has people like Betsy DeVoss undermining public education, Barr undermining justice, others undermining environmental protections, banking regulations and so on.

Are you sure he is bumbling?
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Re: US Economic Sanctions

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed May 29, 2019 7:50 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 2:56 pm
Most American institutions are inclusive,
......wut????

Think, one more second.
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Re: US Economic Sanctions

Post by OlegTheBatty » Wed May 29, 2019 9:04 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 7:50 pm
OlegTheBatty wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 2:56 pm
Most American institutions are inclusive,
......wut????

Think, one more second.
Done. Most American institutions are inclusive. Perhaps you don't understand what that means. It means they are accessible to the masses. Public education, banking, health care (the barriers there are not legal ones). Property ownership, access to patents, copyrights, etc. You can sue those who tort against you, you are protected by police and also have considerable ( though not absolute) protection from police.

Please advise ; What American institution are you barred from because you are an American citizen in good legal standing?
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

There is no statement so absurd that it has not been uttered by some philosopher. - Cicero

.......................Doesn't matter how often I'm proved wrong.................... ~ bobbo the pragmatist

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Re: US Economic Sanctions

Post by Gord » Thu May 30, 2019 12:10 am

OlegTheBatty wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 9:04 pm
Please advise ; What American institution are you barred from because you are an American citizen in good legal standing?
Congress?

*Ba-doom tish!*
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Re: US Economic Sanctions

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu May 30, 2019 1:12 am

OlegTheBatty wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 9:04 pm
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 7:50 pm
OlegTheBatty wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 2:56 pm
Most American institutions are inclusive,
......wut????

Think, one more second.
Done. Most American institutions are inclusive. Perhaps you don't understand what that means. It means they are accessible to the masses. Public education, banking, health care (the barriers there are not legal ones). Property ownership, access to patents, copyrights, etc. You can sue those who tort against you, you are protected by police and also have considerable ( though not absolute) protection from police.

Please advise ; What American institution are you barred from because you are an American citizen in good legal standing?
Ok.....as I tossed it off without thinking much myself.

1. Public Education: Kiddies are restricted to what school they can go to by where they live. NOT the closest school, very often schools farther away that are in their taxed district. Restriction based on residency.
2. Banking: They might "take" money from anyone, but they only give it out based on criteria that is variable and often corrupt. Most banks still "red line" in various ways including the dubious use of credit scores that are out of date, or simply wrong, or meant to discriminate.
3. Healthcare: Not having money is a legal barrier. No money => no healthcare and you are trespassing in the ER. They make movies about it staring Denzel Washington.
4. Property Ownership: Like healthcare: if you have the money you can have property "unless" the gubment wants it. Eminent Domain has become all too corrupt as has asset forfeiture to fund local police operations which is mostly a crime in itself.
5. Intellectural Property: again, devolves by money.
6. Right to Sue: yes, if you can afford the lawyers
7. Police Protection: you have never lived in a "bad" area of town. "Response Time" negatively correlates to neighborhood income.
8. Protection from Police: Ha, ha.......quite telling you felt compelled to include this item with a quibble. Enough said.
Please advise ; What American institution are you barred from because you are an American citizen in good legal standing?
Too general/vague a statement. citizens as barred from many institutions. You need a pass/ID badge/approval process to enter most government institutions or to interact with them.

Reviewing the list.........yes.........if you are a citizen, AND have sufficient wealth/money/cash in small denominations without sequential serial numbers you can live a relatively privileged life. It goes downhill quickly. There is a field/park in the back of my house. People living in tents get rousted all the time. Its "virtually" illegal to be poor in America.
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Re: US Economic Sanctions

Post by OlegTheBatty » Thu May 30, 2019 1:58 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 1:12 am
OlegTheBatty wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 9:04 pm
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 7:50 pm
OlegTheBatty wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 2:56 pm
Most American institutions are inclusive,
......wut????

Think, one more second.
Done. Most American institutions are inclusive. Perhaps you don't understand what that means. It means they are accessible to the masses. Public education, banking, health care (the barriers there are not legal ones). Property ownership, access to patents, copyrights, etc. You can sue those who tort against you, you are protected by police and also have considerable ( though not absolute) protection from police.

Please advise ; What American institution are you barred from because you are an American citizen in good legal standing?
Ok.....as I tossed it off without thinking much myself.

1. Public Education: Kiddies are restricted to what school they can go to by where they live. NOT the closest school, very often schools farther away that are in their taxed district. Restriction based on residency.
2. Banking: They might "take" money from anyone, but they only give it out based on criteria that is variable and often corrupt. Most banks still "red line" in various ways including the dubious use of credit scores that are out of date, or simply wrong, or meant to discriminate.
3. Healthcare: Not having money is a legal barrier. No money => no healthcare and you are trespassing in the ER. They make movies about it staring Denzel Washington.
4. Property Ownership: Like healthcare: if you have the money you can have property "unless" the gubment wants it. Eminent Domain has become all too corrupt as has asset forfeiture to fund local police operations which is mostly a crime in itself.
5. Intellectural Property: again, devolves by money.
6. Right to Sue: yes, if you can afford the lawyers
7. Police Protection: you have never lived in a "bad" area of town. "Response Time" negatively correlates to neighborhood income.
8. Protection from Police: Ha, ha.......quite telling you felt compelled to include this item with a quibble. Enough said.
Please advise ; What American institution are you barred from because you are an American citizen in good legal standing?
Too general/vague a statement. citizens as barred from many institutions. You need a pass/ID badge/approval process to enter most government institutions or to interact with them.

Reviewing the list.........yes.........if you are a citizen, AND have sufficient wealth/money/cash in small denominations without sequential serial numbers you can live a relatively privileged life. It goes downhill quickly. There is a field/park in the back of my house. People living in tents get rousted all the time. Its "virtually" illegal to be poor in America.
Perhaps you are getting a glimmer of reality after all. Universal access to all of those are eroding in the US. I do not think it is an accident. In my response to Dan, I was pointing out how Trumps actions, both the inane public performance and the stuff that is more behind the scenes are pointing at the same game plan. There are powerful forces at work trying (and all too muchly succeeding) to make the US an autocracy with a very tiny elite who have all the power and wealth. The purpose of the rest of you is to produce the wealth so the elite can take it.

Trump may not be a genius, but he has spent his entire life hobnobbing with plutocrats. They will have told him things.
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

There is no statement so absurd that it has not been uttered by some philosopher. - Cicero

.......................Doesn't matter how often I'm proved wrong.................... ~ bobbo the pragmatist

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Re: US Economic Sanctions

Post by OlegTheBatty » Thu May 30, 2019 2:02 pm

Gord wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 12:10 am
OlegTheBatty wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 9:04 pm
Please advise ; What American institution are you barred from because you are an American citizen in good legal standing?
Congress?

*Ba-doom tish!*
He's not barred, he is merely unelectable. I mean, even in a small community like this forum, he can neither get elected Forum Valedictorian, nor Forum Idiot (gorgeous has that one for it's lifetime)
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

There is no statement so absurd that it has not been uttered by some philosopher. - Cicero

.......................Doesn't matter how often I'm proved wrong.................... ~ bobbo the pragmatist

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Re: US Economic Sanctions

Post by landrew » Thu May 30, 2019 6:45 pm

Unflex just a bit...
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Re: US Economic Sanctions

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu May 30, 2019 10:45 pm

I'll paraphrase the famous summary of democracy: "That institution that allows rich and poor alike the right to sleep at night under bridges."

Thing is, as stated, in most places its "against the law" to sleep under bridges. Ha, ha..........so the famous summary is actually pointing out we have no democracy.........or was it "freedom?"

anyhoo.................wake up.........the AlreadyTooRich have already captured all the Wealth.........and well on the way to all the power as well. Interesting how dominance get established and displayed in monkey world.
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Re: US Economic Sanctions

Post by Tom Palven » Fri May 31, 2019 1:50 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 10:45 pm
I'll paraphrase the famous summary of democracy: "That institution that allows rich and poor alike the right to sleep at night under bridges."
Imvho that at least beats authoritarianism which denies both rich and poor alike the right to to sleep under bridges or in a shack that is not up to code.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
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OlegTheBatty
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Re: US Economic Sanctions

Post by OlegTheBatty » Fri May 31, 2019 8:25 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 10:45 pm

anyhoo.................wake up.........the AlreadyTooRich have already captured all the Wealth.........and well on the way to all the power as well. Interesting how dominance get established and displayed in monkey world.
The wealth, but not all the power. That's what they've been working on since we started ganging up to throw rocks at lions.

One way of looking at the history of civilization: A constant tension between a small elite trying to corral all the wealth and power and the much larger mass of humanity trying to share the prosperity they produce. It ebbs and flows each way for a time. The wealthy developed nations are the ones where the masses have gained a modicum of their share of the prosperity, which requires a share of the political power.

The big fear of the wealthy is that a smart, rational government will come to power and strip them of much of their wealth by increasing taxes and nuking the tax havens.
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

There is no statement so absurd that it has not been uttered by some philosopher. - Cicero

.......................Doesn't matter how often I'm proved wrong.................... ~ bobbo the pragmatist

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Re: US Economic Sanctions

Post by Tom Palven » Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:13 pm

The same British deep state that helped the CIA overthrow the only democratically-elected government in a Mid-Eastern Muslim country in 1953 and install the bloody Shah of Iran as leader, has now seized an Iranian tanker, despite Iran complying with its nuclear weapons agreement.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mide ... SKCN1TZ0GN

Pathetic. (I say British deep state because the British Parliament is a flea circus.)
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
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Re: US Economic Sanctions

Post by ElectricMonk » Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:29 pm

US is trying to make Turkey choose between the Russian S-400 missiles and the US F-35s.

It would be smarter for Ankara to go with the missiles.


https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/07/ ... 37370.html

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Re: US Economic Sanctions

Post by Tom Palven » Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:48 pm

Turkey Calls Trumps Bluff, by Eric Margolis:
http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archive ... mps-bluff/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

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Re: US Economic Sanctions

Post by Tom Palven » Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:20 am

New sanctions in store for Turkey:
https://www.rt.com/news/464117-turkey-s ... sanctions/

But US wants to hold off for a moment because:

Now it is up to Trump to sign off on the package, which is unlikely to come before the end of next week, as the administration allegedly wants to “wait until after Monday's anniversary” of the Turkey military coup attempt as to “avoid fueling further speculation” about Washington’s possible involvement."
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot