Drawbacks To Charter Schools

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moth1ne
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Drawbacks To Charter Schools

Post by moth1ne » Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:49 pm

So I am fairly unfamiliar with charter schools and their benefits to the education system. What I have come to understand (correct me if I'm wrong) is that they are held to the same educational standards as public schools (i.e. state test results and graduation rate), they offer areas for students who have a specific area of study they wish to focus on (arts, science, math, etc), the classes are run by the teachers and not by parents, and they are funded by public money and not by tuition. So what are the drawbacks to the charter school system exactly?

note: I am all for revamping the education system in America but are charter schools a good idea?
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Re: Drawbacks To Charter Schools

Post by Gravitycaptain » Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:31 pm

Do charter schools take money from public schools?
Charter schools are public schools. When a child leaves for a charter school the money follows that child. Proponents say this benefits the public school system by instilling a sense of accountability into the system regarding its services to the student and parents and its fiscal obligations. For more information on common misconceptions surrounding charter schools, see CHARTER SCHOOLS: Six Common Criticisms from Opponents—and Proof That They are Unfounded.

http://www.pbs.org/closingtheachievementgap/faq.html
This link provides much info to charter schools. Go to the link for in depth explanations.
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Re: Drawbacks To Charter Schools

Post by moth1ne » Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:53 pm

Gravitycaptain wrote:
Do charter schools take money from public schools?
Charter schools are public schools. When a child leaves for a charter school the money follows that child. Proponents say this benefits the public school system by instilling a sense of accountability into the system regarding its services to the student and parents and its fiscal obligations. For more information on common misconceptions surrounding charter schools, see CHARTER SCHOOLS: Six Common Criticisms from Opponents—and Proof That They are Unfounded.

http://www.pbs.org/closingtheachievementgap/faq.html
This link provides much info to charter schools. Go to the link for in depth explanations.
So do the teachers in charter schools still belong to teachers unions?
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Re: Drawbacks To Charter Schools

Post by Gravitycaptain » Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:02 pm

I don't know from state to state but in California, yes they can.
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Re: Drawbacks To Charter Schools

Post by moth1ne » Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:08 pm

So it seems like a charter school has to provide an acceptable charter and plan before being put into place. So I suppose I don't particularly see the drawback to charter schools unless they fail, although it seems a very low percentage of them do fail. I suppose I don't understand why this has become a partisan issue, seems like charter schools are allowing children different options in education where perhaps the public schools couldn't offer. I see nothing wrong with them... but perhaps I'm missing something?
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Re: Drawbacks To Charter Schools

Post by Gravitycaptain » Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:08 pm

moth1ne wrote:So it seems like a charter school has to provide an acceptable charter and plan before being put into place. So I suppose I don't particularly see the drawback to charter schools unless they fail, although it seems a very low percentage of them do fail. I suppose I don't understand why this has become a partisan issue, seems like charter schools are allowing children different options in education where perhaps the public schools couldn't offer. I see nothing wrong with them... but perhaps I'm missing something?
They are usually the first to get threatened to be shut down as districts try to maintain status quo. There is much opposition to them. They require much more participation from the parents. You cannot be a slacker parent and expect to keep your kid there. Time donations and help in the classroom is mandatory.
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Re: Drawbacks To Charter Schools

Post by OlegTheBatty » Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:48 am

moth1ne wrote:So I am fairly unfamiliar with charter schools and their benefits to the education system. What I have come to understand (correct me if I'm wrong) is that they are held to the same educational standards as public schools (i.e. state test results and graduation rate), they offer areas for students who have a specific area of study they wish to focus on (arts, science, math, etc), the classes are run by the teachers and not by parents, and they are funded by public money and not by tuition. So what are the drawbacks to the charter school system exactly?

note: I am all for revamping the education system in America but are charter schools a good idea?
Maybe, maybe not.

In any event, it is clear that they are not an answer to the education problems in the US. In some cases, they may be part of the solution. One thing they offer that the regular public school system does not is the opportunity to experiment with different learning/teaching environments and techniques. Something useful may come out of that.
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Re: Drawbacks To Charter Schools

Post by moth1ne » Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:01 am

OlegTheBatty wrote:
moth1ne wrote:So I am fairly unfamiliar with charter schools and their benefits to the education system. What I have come to understand (correct me if I'm wrong) is that they are held to the same educational standards as public schools (i.e. state test results and graduation rate), they offer areas for students who have a specific area of study they wish to focus on (arts, science, math, etc), the classes are run by the teachers and not by parents, and they are funded by public money and not by tuition. So what are the drawbacks to the charter school system exactly?

note: I am all for revamping the education system in America but are charter schools a good idea?
Maybe, maybe not.

In any event, it is clear that they are not an answer to the education problems in the US. In some cases, they may be part of the solution. One thing they offer that the regular public school system does not is the opportunity to experiment with different learning/teaching environments and techniques. Something useful may come out of that.
Thanks for the info Oleg. It seems charters have a hard time proving to be more beneficial than the traditional public school system. I totally agree that there is an education crisis in the U.S. and requires much more attention than it is receiving from any edge of the political spectrum as well as the public. Out of 34 countries, the U.S. ranked 25th in math, this is appalling.
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Re: Drawbacks To Charter Schools

Post by Gord » Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:03 am

moth1ne wrote:Out of 34 countries, the U.S. ranked 25th in math, this is appalling.
Yeah, but you've got to take those stats with a grain of salt. They were probably compiled by a graduate from an American school, for instance. ;)
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Re: Drawbacks To Charter Schools

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:44 am

Australia was outperformed by twelve countries: Shanghai – China, Singapore, Hong Kong – China, Korea, Chinese Taipei, Finland, Liechtenstein, Switzerland, Japan, Canada, the Netherlands, and Macao – China, in mathematical literacy performance.
http://www.acer.edu.au/documents/PISA-Report-2009.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Hang on, Shanghai, Hong Kong and Macao are all in the same country, China and we already have China over a barrel with our Aussie resources. Canada obviously slept with the exam markers.

So it is Finland, Norway and Lichenstein that Australia needs to "move out of the way" through "accident or misadventure". ( I think a bit of lead piping residue in their national children's "milk at schools campaign" should solve this problem.)

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Re: Drawbacks To Charter Schools

Post by OlegTheBatty » Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:35 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:Australia was outperformed by twelve countries: Shanghai – China, Singapore, Hong Kong – China, Korea, Chinese Taipei, Finland, Liechtenstein, Switzerland, Japan, Canada, the Netherlands, and Macao – China, in mathematical literacy performance.
http://www.acer.edu.au/documents/PISA-Report-2009.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Hang on, Shanghai, Hong Kong and Macao are all in the same country, China and we already have China over a barrel with our Aussie resources. Canada obviously slept with the exam markers.

So it is Finland, Norway and Lichenstein that Australia needs to "move out of the way" through "accident or misadventure". ( I think a bit of lead piping residue in their national children's "milk at schools campaign" should solve this problem.)
Nah, all you have to do is pass a few doobies around the school yards.
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Re: Drawbacks To Charter Schools

Post by fromthehills » Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:02 pm

I do know that our local charter school sucks, it was the reason we started homeschooling in the first place. I'm not saying that it means all charter schools suck, I don't know. Ours is all airy fairy, and the science is atrocious.

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Re: Drawbacks To Charter Schools

Post by moth1ne » Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:32 pm

fromthehills wrote:I do know that our local charter school sucks, it was the reason we started homeschooling in the first place. I'm not saying that it means all charter schools suck, I don't know. Ours is all airy fairy, and the science is atrocious.
From what I've come to understand, charter schools vary from state to state and certain states have better records of performance in their charter schools. Also, states have different authorization policies on charters, some may not be as strict or proficient in deciding if the proposed charter will prove beneficial. The real issue seems to me to be that charter schools have a hard time proving to be MORE effective then traditional public schools a majority of the time.
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Re: Drawbacks To Charter Schools

Post by fromthehills » Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:08 am

I just foundthis for Colorado. There are a few red flags, but nothing that says that they are worse than public school.

We are rural, and the charter school here was started because a lot of parents here are hippies, and object to traditional education and government standards. Locally, it's well known that the ranch type kids go to the regular school, and the kids of Buddhists and hippies, and the like, go to the charter school. Neither is all that good. We could have put the kid on the bus at 0630 to go to the regular school, but they focus on things a ranch kid needs, the basics. The charter school focuses on the alternative ideals, "E=MC2 is a metaphor for 'life's energy' ", is one thing that sticks with me, because it made me so goddamn angry. Our kid wasn't out of K/1st ( which is the same class, btw) when we yanked him, so he didn't get that, but some of the HS kids I've spoken with have relayed their concerns. One kid, a very bright, socially awkward boy, has argued physics with Neil Adams ( yes, the quack ), online, and the kid was right. He has given me a few accounts of having to defend his own scientific research with the teacher, and again, from what I saw, the kid was right, but the teacher has ridiculed the kid. The boy discusses physics, beyond the HS level, with a local genius, a very quirky genius, ( and I'm not exaggerating the level of brilliance, nor quirkiness, here) because he has no one else that understands him. I have researched some of there discussions, because they are above my head, and have found them to be pretty accurate. My point being, that this charter school, as well as the conventional public school, cannot do justice to this boy's mind. They just aren't capable. Luckily he's smart enough to do his own research. For the kids that aren't? Well, they end up hanging out, wandering town, and wondering why life isn't fair. I'm afraid that this boy, in particular, will be passed over for excellent higher education because of his academic history, and possibly for lack of what he should have been taught, and was not.

Our boy calls all religion "Mumbo Jumbo " and not from our influence, because we don't discuss religion, but from his understanding of science.

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Re: Drawbacks To Charter Schools

Post by moth1ne » Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:33 am

fromthehills wrote:I just foundthis for Colorado. There are a few red flags, but nothing that says that they are worse than public school.

We are rural, and the charter school here was started because a lot of parents here are hippies, and object to traditional education and government standards. Locally, it's well known that the ranch type kids go to the regular school, and the kids of Buddhists and hippies, and the like, go to the charter school. Neither is all that good. We could have put the kid on the bus at 0630 to go to the regular school, but they focus on things a ranch kid needs, the basics. The charter school focuses on the alternative ideals, "E=MC2 is a metaphor for 'life's energy' ", is one thing that sticks with me, because it made me so goddamn angry. Our kid wasn't out of K/1st ( which is the same class, btw) when we yanked him, so he didn't get that, but some of the HS kids I've spoken with have relayed their concerns. One kid, a very bright, socially awkward boy, has argued physics with Neil Adams ( yes, the quack ), online, and the kid was right. He has given me a few accounts of having to defend his own scientific research with the teacher, and again, from what I saw, the kid was right, but the teacher has ridiculed the kid. The boy discusses physics, beyond the HS level, with a local genius, a very quirky genius, ( and I'm not exaggerating the level of brilliance, nor quirkiness, here) because he has no one else that understands him. I have researched some of there discussions, because they are above my head, and have found them to be pretty accurate. My point being, that this charter school, as well as the conventional public school, cannot do justice to this boy's mind. They just aren't capable. Luckily he's smart enough to do his own research. For the kids that aren't? Well, they end up hanging out, wandering town, and wondering why life isn't fair. I'm afraid that this boy, in particular, will be passed over for excellent higher education because of his academic history, and possibly for lack of what he should have been taught, and was not.

Our boy calls all religion "Mumbo Jumbo " and not from our influence, because we don't discuss religion, but from his understanding of science.
This is prime example of why education needs to be discussed heavily in the coming election and should be in the forethought of every U.S. citizen. Our standard of education is diminishing along with our future as a forward thinking nation. We went from being explorers, inventors, and innovators, to irrational charlatans that have no desire for knowledge and critical thinking ability. A strong emphasis on proper education should be on everybody's mind, no matter what political ideology they might hold.
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." -Carl Sagan, The Demon Haunted World

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Re: Drawbacks To Charter Schools

Post by fromthehills » Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:42 am

moth1ne wrote: This is prime example of why education needs to be discussed heavily in the coming election and should be in the forethought of every U.S. citizen. Our standard of education is diminishing along with our future as a forward thinking nation. We went from being explorers, inventors, and innovators, to irrational charlatans that have no desire for knowledge and critical thinking ability. A strong emphasis on proper education should be on everybody's mind, no matter what political ideology they might hold.
Agreed.