Unschooling

Methods and means of supporting critical thinking in education
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JO 753
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Re: Unschooling

Post by JO 753 » Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:03 pm

RubyHypatia wrote:
JO 753 wrote:Herez a theory: Many religionz are started by prude nerd men.

The evidence being the supression uv sexuality & womenz appearance. Having to wear hats in church, thats a new wun for me. Women generally have much better hair than men, so sum baldy minister a few hundred yirz ago came up with that rule.


No, JO, it's in the Bible. 1 Corinthians 11. I can't believe I was brainwashed to believe that {!#%@}.


So a baldy monk a few thouzand yirz ago.
Last edited by JO 753 on Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Unschooling

Post by JO 753 » Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:10 pm

RubyHypatia wrote:Anyone ever hear of unschooling? It's homeschooling your child with very little structure.


I've been predicting the demize uv skool for 10 yirz. At least the big bilding type. The internet classroom thing iz getting more popular all the time and the cost uv operating regular skoolz keeps going up, so it seemz inevitable.

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Re: Unschooling

Post by RubyHypatia » Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:08 pm

I read a story in one of my school reading books back in the early '80's in which schools became obsolete as computers took over teachers' jobs. That's not likely in reality because schools also serve to babysit the kids as mothers work outside the home. Plus, people think school is necessary for socializing children. Of course they ignore a lot of very anti-social behavior that goes on in schools. The most anti-social member in my family went to school K-12.

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Re: Unschooling

Post by JO 753 » Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:12 pm

Bad behaivor spredz at least az eazily az good. I think its more likely that kidz can be taught proper social skillz than simply picking them up frum dealing with other kidz.

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Re: Unschooling

Post by RubyHypatia » Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:00 am

Adults in big groups are bad enough, but teenagers are even worse. I just wish schools were smaller. Then those students would be easier to control.

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Re: Unschooling

Post by JO 753 » Sun Oct 23, 2011 1:49 am


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Re: Unschooling

Post by bigtim » Sun Oct 23, 2011 3:08 am

RubyHypatia wrote:Adults in big groups are bad enough, but teenagers are even worse. I just wish schools were smaller. Then those students would be easier to control.


teenagers can be worse for two very large reasons:
1) they think they have nothing to lose and no future
2) they're trained they do not have to suffer any consequences for their actions...
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Re: Unschooling

Post by RubyHypatia » Sun Oct 23, 2011 6:48 pm

Excellent song, JO. I've always loved it. But that's not the kind of control I was speaking of. I'm talking about keeping kids from bullying each other and being disruptive in class. It's like schools have gone to the opposite extreme and there needs to be a middle ground.

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Re: Unschooling

Post by JO 753 » Sun Oct 23, 2011 7:12 pm

Bully teacherz are very rare theze dayz, but can you imagine wut it wuz like a hundred yirz ago? Not that you haf to go back that far, but corporal punishment wuz a popular teaching tool in the old dayz.

A kid coud get spanked by the teacher, sent to the hedmasterz office for another round, get beat up by a classmate after school, then get more punishment wen he got home.

Nasty headmasterz and sadistic teacherz played a big part in the fossilization uv our stupid spelling nonsystem. They established the link between 'correct' spelling and intelligence.

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Re: Unschooling

Post by RubyHypatia » Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:47 pm

Jo, I couldn't agree more. That was a horrid system!

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Re: Unschooling

Post by Austin Harper » Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:06 am

JO 753 wrote:Nasty headmasterz and sadistic teacherz played a big part in the fossilization uv our stupid spelling nonsystem. They established the link between 'correct' spelling and intelligence.

Are you trying to link the odd spellings of some English words to abusive teachers? What about odd spellings in other languages?
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Re: Unschooling

Post by JO 753 » Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:50 am

I dont know much about other languagez historyz.

The 1st English dictionaryz started the fossilization at a time uv maximum kaos. Teacherz used them az the official reference. In spite uv the lexicografrz protestationz uv being only descriptiv and not prescriptiv, they are the last word in all local disputes on language, especially spelling.

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Re: Unschooling

Post by Austin Harper » Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:12 pm

Dictionaries have been around for more than 4000 years, almost as long as written language (ca. 5000 years). You might find this quote from Wikipedia interesting:
Wikipedia wrote:Native readers and writers of English are often unaware that the complexities of English spelling make written English a somewhat artificial construct. The traditional spelling of English, at least for inherited words, preserves a late Middle English phonology that is no one's speech dialect. The artificial preservation of this much earlier form of the language in writing might make much of what we write intelligible to Chaucer (1343–1400), even if we could not understand his speech.
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Re: Unschooling

Post by Monster » Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:45 pm

I don't understand why women don't do a better job at raising boys who don't grow up to be wife-beaters, women-haters, or adulterer-stoners.
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Re: Unschooling

Post by brauneyz » Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:02 pm

Monster wrote:I don't understand why women don't do a better job at raising boys who don't grow up to be wife-beaters, women-haters, or adulterer-stoners.


Excuse me, but I think I missed your use of sarcasm font or emoticon ... :?
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Re: Unschooling

Post by Monster » Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:12 pm

brauneyz wrote:
Monster wrote:I don't understand why women don't do a better job at raising boys who don't grow up to be wife-beaters, women-haters, or adulterer-stoners.


Excuse me, but I think I missed your use of sarcasm font or emoticon ... :?

No, I was serious. I apologize for not putting more thought into my post. Basically, I'm saying, since there are so many {!#%@} men in the world, and since women are the primary caretakers of boys, why are there so many {!#%@} men? Why didn't women teach boys to be nicer to females when they grow up? I suppose that if women did nothing to teach boys to be nice to females, it would be worse. And yes I'm aware of cultural factors that turns men into {!#%@}. So, uh, nevermind.
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Re: Unschooling

Post by brauneyz » Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:19 pm

Monster wrote:
brauneyz wrote:
Monster wrote:I don't understand why women don't do a better job at raising boys who don't grow up to be wife-beaters, women-haters, or adulterer-stoners.


Excuse me, but I think I missed your use of sarcasm font or emoticon ... :?

No, I was serious. I apologize for not putting more thought into my post....


Let's just leave it at that.
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Re: Unschooling

Post by RubyHypatia » Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:15 pm

So how about I be mean to my husband and when he protests I can just tell him it's my father's fault for not being around when I was growing up and teaching me to be nice to his gender?

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Re: Unschooling

Post by Monster » Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:58 pm

RubyHypatia wrote:So how about I be mean to my husband and when he protests I can just tell him it's my father's fault for not being around when I was growing up and teaching me to be nice to his gender?

Ok, sorry I said it. I was wrong.
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Re: Unschooling

Post by JO 753 » Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:47 pm

Austin Harper wrote:Dictionaries have been around for more than 4000 years, almost as long as written language


I'm sure you realize it wuznt till much later that English got a dictionary.

This iz a good article: http://grammar.about.com/od/words/a/earlydiction.htm
Because Mulcaster's focus was on spelling, he left the words in his list undefined. All the same, he clearly recognized the need for a more comprehensive reference work: "It were a thing verie praiseworthie in my opinion . . . if som one well learned and as laborious a man, wold gather all the words which we use in our English tung . . . out of all professions, as well learned as not, into one dictionarie, and besides the right writing, which is incident to the Alphabete, wold open unto us therein, both their naturall force, and their proper use." A generation later, Robert Cawdrey took up the challenge.

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Re: Unschooling

Post by Austin Harper » Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:57 pm

And Messrs. Mulcaster and Cawdrey were, I take it, abusive teachers? I'm still not clear on how you're trying to pin our odd spellings on abusive teachers.
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Re: Unschooling

Post by JO 753 » Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:18 pm

Actually, Johnson wuz an unpopular teacher before he compiled hiz dictionary.

The connection iz that teacherz created the link between intelligence and correct spelling. They used rote memorization, tests, songz, spelling beez, and all manner uv cultish ritualz, including corporal punishment, to enforce standardized spelling.

Therez sumthing about that in http://www.amazon.com/Story-English-Third-Revised/dp/0142002313/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1319483017&sr=1-1. Great book.

If you read on about Johnson, therez sumthing about hiz original intent to 'fix' the language. 'Fix' meaning to stop it from changing. Fossilize. Although he had given up on the notion by the time he had finished the 1st edition (took 8 yirz), he would be happy to find that he succeeded in fossilizing the spelling. Not 100%, but pretty darn close, especially if you consider it az a process that he started.

I am 'FIKSING' the spelling; 'FIKSING' az in 'repairing'.

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Re: Unschooling

Post by Poodle » Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:14 pm

I'm getting used to NooAlf - slowly - although there appear to be a few oddities connected with American pronunciation which may need to be ironed out. But that's purely from an English viewpoint. So will there be NooAlf(1) for American pronunciation and NooAlf(2) for English and Nooalf(3) for Oz (I could go on)?

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Re: Unschooling

Post by Austin Harper » Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:27 pm

Poodle wrote:I'm getting used to NooAlf - slowly - although there appear to be a few oddities connected with American pronunciation which may need to be ironed out. But that's purely from an English viewpoint. So will there be NooAlf(1) for American pronunciation and NooAlf(2) for English and Nooalf(3) for Oz (I could go on)?

You raise a good point. There's a pretty big difference between each regional pronunciation. I'd say the Northeastern US has generally the same accent, but Boston, New York City, and Philadelphia are all slightly different, and they're not that far apart. When you compare Boston and Johannesburg, you see huge differences. Or Cardiff and Los Angeles. Or London and Glasgow. Or Sydney and New Delhi.
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Re: Unschooling

Post by JO 753 » Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:49 pm

Part uv the advantage uv Nooalf iz that you can spell all the dialects and accents. Insted uv standardizing a string uv letterz for each word, Nooalf standardizez a pronunciation for each letter. So any standard spelling woud likely be for a major region.

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Re: Unschooling

Post by Poodle » Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:59 am

... which means that there would be several regional forms of Nooalf, doesn't it? Several variant spellings for just about any word of more than one syllable.

At least with reasonably standardised English, any English-speakers, no matter how convoluted their individual dialects, can expect to communicate in writing with no misunderstandings. I don't see how Nooalf improves upon that situation.

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Re: Unschooling

Post by bigtim » Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:01 am

Poodle wrote:... which means that there would be several regional forms of Nooalf, doesn't it? Several variant spellings for just about any word of more than one syllable.

At least with reasonably standardised English, any English-speakers, no matter how convoluted their individual dialects, can expect to communicate in writing with no misunderstandings. I don't see how Nooalf improves upon that situation.


went through this with him years ago... at least his typing isn't as bad as it was and you can actually decipher most of what he means.
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Re: Unschooling

Post by JO 753 » Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:31 am

Actually, Poodle, if you can understand sumwunz speech, and they are spelling how they speak, you woud understand the spelling just az eazily.

I dont think anybody who speaks english haz a problem understanding the mid American dialect thats the broadcast standard you hear most often in the TV showz, moviez and muzik we hav been flooding the world with for a century.

I've met literate adult native English speakerz who I coudnt understand at all. So, if they knew how to write Nooalf and coud understand the main dialect, they coud write either way depending if they wanted me to understand or not.

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Re: Unschooling

Post by Poodle » Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:54 am

I see problems. Here, for instance, is a short exchange of messages between me and person from Yorkshire who uses his dialect as a matter of course.

Me: "I could".
Him: "You couldn't".

Unfortunately, the Yorkshire dialect is such that the word "couldn't" is not pronounced as per normal. There are a lot of shortened words in the dialect, and this is one of them. And this is how it would be shortened ... cou---nt. This, and the actual word it sounds like (when pronounced in the same Yorkshire dialect), would both be spelled in precisely the same way under Nooalf. I might get pretty hot under the collar.

OK - it's a trivial example. But I think it might be an easy matter to find other, less trivial, pitfalls.

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Re: Unschooling

Post by JO 753 » Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:48 pm

:lol: Soundz like a good start for a bar fite! Or woud you say a row at a tavern? Waiduminit! iz row spelt the same az row? Dam impossible to figyr that out in Ye Olde Traditional, iznt it? In Nooalf: RoW RO

Similar joke - a Russian guy doing MC duty at a live muzik event:

"oND NoW, DE GeRL HQ PQTS DE KoWNT IN KoWNTRE, soNio TWAN!"

XU MaNIJR TaPS HIM oN XU sOLDR, WISPRZ IN HIZ IR, eKSPLANING XaT XU WRDZ 'KoWNT' aND 'KUNTRE' DO NoT RiM.

BLUsING, HE GeTS BaK oN XU MiKRUFON. "SoRE, oDEeNS! LeT ME TRi AGAN! HERZ soNio TWAN - DE KONTRE MYQZEK GeRL HQ LQKS SO GQD DaT i WoNT TQ HaV DE SeKS WEx HeR oL DA!"

Try doing that with regular english!

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Re: Unschooling

Post by Major Malfunction » Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:53 pm

JO 753 wrote:Try doing that with regular english!

WTF?
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Re: Unschooling

Post by bigtim » Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:22 pm

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