Carbon in the Earth's mantle

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Lance Kennedy
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Carbon in the Earth's mantle

Post by Lance Kennedy » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:02 pm

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... ce+News%29

Scientists have known for a long time that carbonate rocks are subducted beneath the Earth's crust, and can later release CO2 via volcanic eruptions. It looks like there is vastly more carbon below the crust than earlier thought. CO2 from the air turns to carbonate rock, and plate tectonics carries it down for long term storage. Volcanoes return the CO2 in large amounts.

A lot of the CO2 being released by human activity is unaccounted for. It seems likely that much reacts with silicate rocks to become carbonates, and will in time disappear. Such long term storage may have interesting implications for climate change.

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Re: Carbon in the Earth's mantle

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:49 pm

A quibble: as described..... this is NOT long term storage but rather directly describes a long term cycle.

The quibble is very relevant I think in that this process has NO interesting implications for climate change.

Ha, ha.........I'll let that sit........... for the obvious.
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Re: Carbon in the Earth's mantle

Post by Lance Kennedy » Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:40 pm

Bobbo

From the human perspective, long term cycling is exactly the same as long term storage.

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Re: Carbon in the Earth's mantle

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:07 pm

Exactly?

What is a long term cycle then?

...................and which is more accurate/descriptive???

Why not live and learn???

.............I do agree neither are interesting with regard to climate. Regarding earth geology?==>very interesting. Again...not exactly the same thing....unless storage is exactly the same thing as a cycle.
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Re: Carbon in the Earth's mantle

Post by Jim Steele » Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:15 pm

the amount of CO2 in Earth's upper mantle may be up to 100 trillion metric tons. In comparison, the US Environmental Protection Agency estimates the global carbon emission in 2011 was nearly 10 billion metric tons -- a tiny amount in comparison.
At the very least, this shows how little consensus scientists know. The EPA underestimated by a factor of 1000! 100 triilion tons equals 100,000 Gigatons. In addition, ocean sediments contain 30 million gigatons, the oceans water columns contain 38,000 Gigatons, and the atmosphere contains a mere 700 gigatons. Humans contribute about 3 gigatons a year entering the ocean, but it mostly sinks to depths where it is sequestered for hundreds to thousands of years.

Unfortunately if more CO2 stayed nearer the surface, it would benefit coral, and other photosynthesizers. Human CO2 would be fertilizing the oceans and increasing marine productivity. In contrast to doomsayers, it could usher in Golden Age. However currently CO2 is in such short supply at the ocean surface, coral must expend lots of energy to import bicarbonate ions which they then convert into CO2 by lowering their internal pH to less than pH 5.0.

Thankfully enough CO2 is upwelled and recycled or most photosynthesis would stop.
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Re: Carbon in the Earth's mantle

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:22 pm

things I never knew: co2 sinks in ocean water.

thank you Jim Steele.

.............and btw..... what does the EPA estimate of carbon emissions got to do with estimates of carbonate rock in the crust?

Edit: it just now struck me "what you must mean" by co2 sinking. Still....I didn't post that it was news to me that with higher percent of co2 in the air that there would be a lower content of it in the upper ocean?......that could be a complicated feed back based on temperature???.............. but I doubt it.
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Re: Carbon in the Earth's mantle

Post by Lance Kennedy » Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:24 pm

Jim

Carbon emissions are not the same as carbon stored in the mantle. Look again.

Bobbo

Long term cycling is in the millions of years. In other words, carbon stored in the Earth's mantle is essentially gone from the shorter time frame humans are concerned with. CO2 dissolved in sea water does not sink.

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Re: Carbon in the Earth's mantle

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:25 pm

OK.......now why is that interesting with regard to climate change?
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Re: Carbon in the Earth's mantle

Post by Jim Steele » Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:49 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:Jim Carbon emissions are not the same as carbon stored in the mantle.
Well duh. If you hadnt said that I would have never guessed at such an obvious point. Read again and tell me where I said they were the same????

All I posted was a comparison of carbon reservoirs.

With the obvious duly noted, volcanic emissions are constrained by their mantle source.
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Re: Carbon in the Earth's mantle

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:14 pm

what does: "a tiny amount in comparison" mean then? You said epa made an error. What error???

by implication, you agree co2 does not sink? Maybe that factoid got us onto the wrong track????

You need to repost to make it clear whatever point you are trying to make.

(Bonus: how can it be thought that co2 sinks? Basic science.....I assume JS knows. Just want to see him get some points on the board.)
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Re: Carbon in the Earth's mantle

Post by Jim Steele » Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:54 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: (Bonus: how can it be thought that co2 sinks? Basic science.....I assume JS knows. Just want to see him get some points on the board.)
Indeed I do know. Research shows that large phytoplankton like diatoms as well as small foraminifera, fecal aggregations, calcium carbonate shells, etc. all can sink at the rate of 1 kilometer per day. Smaller particles sink much slower. Nonetheless after a day a lot of carbon is sequestered for hundreds to thousands of years. That makes all that carbon irrelevant in modern times,
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Re: Carbon in the Earth's mantle

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:56 pm

Good on you. All to easy to skip a few steps..... but among the cognoscenti.

for our real education: is it this same calcium carbonate from shells etc sinking that forms the carbonate rock....or is that from or mostly from some other process?
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Re: Carbon in the Earth's mantle

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:00 am

Scratch that.................carbonate rock is limestone. Lots of tv on that. Google added dolomite to the list.

Knowledge is power............... and fun.
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Re: Carbon in the Earth's mantle

Post by Poodle » Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:20 am

Plate tectonics is fascinating. I can accept that a subduction zone will apparently lock up any carbonates passing the boundary for who knows how long. On the slightly inverted grounds that what goes down must come up, then any divergent boundary (convergent and divergent boundaries being almost perfectly equal and opposite) will, at the same time, return archaic carbonates to the sea and atmosphere. Over a long enough period of time, the amount going down will be approximately equal to the amount coming up.

OK - there will be variation depending upon the conditions pertaining when the original subduction took place, but it does seem to me that a balance will be achieved. IF (I repeat IF) that's the case, why the excitement?

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Re: Carbon in the Earth's mantle

Post by Lance Kennedy » Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:30 am

Just another point Jim.
You are incorrect in suggesting more CO2 will benefit coral. The reverse is true. More CO2 reduces pH, and that makes it more difficult for corals and molluscs to build shells. Less CO2 would benefit coral.

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Re: Carbon in the Earth's mantle

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:05 am

Poodle: as always: "I" know nothing. .......... but ........... I'm thinking the subduction zones take the carbonate into the interior for who knows what kind of chemical processes there. Limestone and dolomite (I'm thinking) come from deposit layers NOT subducted thereby ready to be raised up. ............ and that makes me think the co2 belched from volcanoes must be sourced from the molten core where all that subducted co2 went.

Again, I don't know. Just seems to be an inference from what I do know.

TWO-----count them: 1+1=2 LONG TERM STORAGE long term carbon cycles. so long term, they got diddly squat to do with weather. that is kinda interesting.
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Re: Carbon in the Earth's mantle

Post by Jim Steele » Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:48 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:Just another point Jim.
You are incorrect in suggesting more CO2 will benefit coral. The reverse is true. More CO2 reduces pH, and that makes it more difficult for corals and molluscs to build shells. Less CO2 would benefit coral.
Lance you could not be more WRONG!

Your reply suggests your knowledge or marine biology is extremely limited, likely to political blogs on climate.

First you need to separate photosynthesizers like coral symbionts from molluscs.Studies show that moluscs like mussels show the greatest rates of calcification under low pH if there is adequate food. Many experiments starve their subjects to eliminate any effect from respiration.

On the other hand, many calcifying photosynthesizers, like coral, require CO2 to photosynthesize. That's why coral lower their pH to below 5.0 to convert bicarbonate ions to create more CO2. To do that they require H+ ions. I am guessing you lack an understanding of the chemistry, so I direct your attention to this http://landscapesandcycles.net/gaia-and ... an-ph.html

To calcify, coral and other calcifiers must import bicarbonate ions. They then export H+ ions to raise pH and create carbonate ions. Even if lower pH completely reduced carbonate ions in the ambient ocean water, it would not affect calcification because no calcifier has transporters that can import carbonate ions. They can only import bicarbonate ions, which there is a bounty of and concentrations only increases as pH lower below 8.1. Although the mechanism is not fully eludcideated, it is likely that coral have coupled the export of H+ ions in calcifying cambers, to the import of H+ ions into the photosynthesizing vesicles.
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Re: Carbon in the Earth's mantle

Post by Jim Steele » Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:51 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Poodle: as always: "I" know nothing..... Again, I don't know. Just seems to be an inference from what I do know.
Isnt that a bit of circular reasoning that adds up to knowing nothing???
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Re: Carbon in the Earth's mantle

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:22 am

Jim: inference.
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Re: Carbon in the Earth's mantle

Post by Jim Steele » Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:45 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Jim: inference.
That's not inference. You alraedy admitted knowing nothing. If I said based on the the quality of your posts, I infer you know nothing, then that is inference. But I did not say that.
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Re: Carbon in the Earth's mantle

Post by Lance Kennedy » Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:18 am

Jim

I suspect your knowledge of science is lacking, rather than mine. When CO2 dissolves in water, it forms carbonic acid, lowering pH, and releasing hydrogen ions. This lower pH makes CaCO3 less stable, and dissolves the structure making up the skeleton of corals. More CO2 dissolved reduces the ability of corals and molluscs to make CaCO3 based structures. More CO2 reduces such life. The key in this case is not bicarbonate, which is not a limited resource, but the excess of hydrogen ions.

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Re: Carbon in the Earth's mantle

Post by Jim Steele » Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:49 pm

Lance you are free to suspect you have superior knowledge if you need to do so.

However I suggest you read my essay How Gaia and Coral Reefs Regulate Ocean pH http://landscapesandcycles.net/gaia-and ... an-ph.html It acknowledges your rudimentary understanding of the issue, but covers the many gaps that lead to your misunderstandings.

Again coral must pump H+ ions into their photosynthesizing vesicles converting bicarbonate ions into more CO2 in order to photosynthesize. To calcify polyps must pump H+ out of the calcifying chambers. However they must pump out H+ ions anyways to allow CA++ to enter. In addition, pumping ions out of the calcifying chambers requires less than 1% of the energy created from photosynthesis. Photosynthesis is the key, the foundation of their metabolic dynamics. You can make the empty claim "More CO2 reduces such life", but you apparently do not understand how a food web works.

Second during the day, photosynthesis draws down dissolved inorganic carbon raising pH to 8.5 or so, further supersaturating their micro-environment regards CaCO3. Simply arguing CO2 enters the water and turns to carbonic acid ignores the fact that photosynthesis rapidly sequesters that carbon making your point moot. And because it can take a year before the upper ocean layer reaches equilibrium with atmospheric CO2, atmospheric invasion of CO2 is way to slow to counter the pH raising dynamic of photosynthesis. Each day photosynthesis sequesters CO2 and lowers ocean surface concentrations below levels that we would expect during the last Ice Age.

At night respiration and calcification release CO2 and drop the local pH to about 7.7. The coral themselves now cause pH to drop lower than what CO2 driven climate models predict at the end of 2100 AD. In fact calcification releases so much CO2, te consensus is coral reefs are net sources of CO2. Furthermore any dissolution of shells counteracts the corrosive effect of calcification, and counterintuitievly absorbs CO2. And if you understand physics, CO2 can only diffuse from a high concentration to low. Therefore atmospheric CO2 is not entering the local waters around coral reefs. Its leaving.

Finally regards CaCO3, the tropics are the most supersaturated waters on earth as illustrated below from the 2015 peer reviewed paper Climatological distribution of aragonite saturation state in the global oceans. It encourages calcification. Its curious what alternative facts are needed to falsely suggest coral are being reduced by CO2.

Image
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Re: Carbon in the Earth's mantle

Post by Lance Kennedy » Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:24 pm

Jim

There are two ways of approaching science, which can be called the right way and the dubious way.

The right way is to use empirical testing, also known as experiments. The wrong way is to use deduction. The deductive method was the main one used from the time of the ancient Greeks to the beginning of the scientific revolution, and it achieved exactly zero. You are attempting to use this method.

Empirical, or real world testing, swamps deduction every time, for those trained in science. The impact of CO2 on coral forming organisms has been thoroughly tested empirically. That is, via experiments, not unreliable and dubious deductions. The experiments show clearly the harm done to coral formers when CO2 levels rise.

The history of pseudoscience is full of examples of deduction leading people astray. For example, the whole quack practice of homeopathy resulted from a deduction, which was subsequently disproved by experiment, but where the advocates stuck to the deduction and ignored the empirical results. Why is it that I think you are about to ignore the empirical (proper science) results?

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Re: Carbon in the Earth's mantle

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:48 pm

Lance: nice to read that now and again.

But JS position, that he won't cop to, is that you cannot prove/test what you have alleged. You see: you cannot test the entire ecosystem/ocean with having higher levels of co2 producing lower ph COMPARED TO the same ocean status quo ante. THEREFOR: NO PROOF.

Same with co2 warming the atmosphere. You can test a box of the stuff, or a tent covering a half acre....but you can't test the whole earth THEREFOR: NO PROOF.

This ignores as you have just posted what common sense and testing does produce: the best evidence possible with PRAGMATICally applicable results time after time.

This observation creates several inferences .......... that I won't go into.
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Re: Carbon in the Earth's mantle

Post by Jim Steele » Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:02 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote: There are two ways of approaching science, which can be called the right way and the dubious way.

The right way is to use empirical testing, also known as experiments. The wrong way is to use deduction.
ROTFLMAO There are two ways to address evidence that contradicts your beliefs. One with false psychobabble and the other with evidence that actually supports your assertions.

The experimental evidence has clearly shown that increasing CO2 is a benefit to photosynthesizing coral.

It is one thing to pedantically ramble on about what determines good science but it is quite another to actually produce good evidence to support your bluster.

In support of my claims here is a link to a paper showing experimentally why coral acidify their cells in order to photosynthesize . The paper is titled Coral host cells acidify symbiotic algal microenvironment to promote photosynthesis and is found here: http://www.pnas.org/content/112/2/607.full.pdf
From their abstract

Carbon must be concentrated as CO2 in order for photosynthesis to proceed, and here we show that the coral host plays an active role in
this process. The host-derived symbiosome membrane surrounding the algae abundantly expresses vacuolar H+ -ATPase (VHA),which acidifies the symbiosome space down to pH ∼4.
Now please suspend all your arrogant psychobabble and present the papers containing the experimental evidence that shows our recent increased CO2 has been bad for coral photosynthesis.

Bobbo - Keep fabricating what I said. Sadly all you are doing is creating strawmen that you can attack.. You do realize you are only arguing with yourself, and not the reality of what I have presented.
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Re: Carbon in the Earth's mantle

Post by Lance Kennedy » Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:57 pm

http://www.teachoceanscience.net/teachi ... ral_reefs/

Jim

Your PNAS paper does not address the formation of the coral skeleton. It is about another topic entirely.

The reference above describes the reality.

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Re: Carbon in the Earth's mantle

Post by Jim Steele » Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:22 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:Jim

Your PNAS paper does not address the formation of the coral skeleton. It is about another topic entirely.
Nice dodge Lance. Another topic entirely!?!? ROTFLMAO You are seveerly cherry-picking your arguments

Indeed the paper is about coral photosynthesis exactly as I stated. The energy from photosynthesis drives calcification. It is central to this discussion. You said "Less CO2 would benefit coral." But such an argument only holds true if you incorrectly think photosynthesis is not important.

Although in some species photosynthesis and calcification compete for bicarbonate ions, photosynthesis generally benefits calcification by providing energy, and by raising external pH, which lowers the cost of pumping internal H+ ions to the surrounding waters. In addition on a per molecule basis, the cost of calcification requires less than 1% of the energy produced by photosynthesis . Read McCulloch 201) Coral resilience to ocean acidification and global warming through pH up-regulation http://www.nature.com/nclimate/journal/ ... e1473.html Although upregulation was not observed in a few species, they concluded
we show how scleractinian corals up-regulate pH at their site of calcification such that internal changes are approximately one-half of those in ambient seawater. This species-dependent pH-buffering capacity enables aragonitic corals to raise the saturation state of their calcifying medium, thereby increasing calcification rates at little additional energy cost. Using a model of pH regulation combined with abiotic calcification, we show that the enhanced kinetics of calcification owing to higher temperatures has the potential to counter the effects of ocean acidification
Accordingly numerous coral studies have also reported that greater rates of photosynthesis correlate with greater rates of calcification. The same holds true for other calcifying organisms. For example across the tropical ocean, the ratio of net calcification to net photosynthesis for coccolithophores remained constant despite regions of widely varying surface pH and calcite saturation levels .

Again please suspend all your arrogant psychobabble and present the papers containing the experimental evidence that shows our recent increased CO2 has been bad for coral photosynthesis.
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Re: Carbon in the Earth's mantle

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:52 pm

Sounds like we need a two graph chart showing photosynthesis in relationship to co2 and then another one of calcifications relationship to coral? Evidently they form an X. With a narrow range for the sweet spot?

Then..... we have a third graph of corals relationship to Heat....and another series of X's.

I'll bet....... we need five other graphs as well. Hopefully, not to include the polar heat transport system.
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Re: Carbon in the Earth's mantle

Post by Lance Kennedy » Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:18 pm

Bobbo

Jum cannot read and understand scientific papers. The PNAS reference he supplied shows that, inside the membrane enclosing an algal cell, the pH drops. That is a totally different thing to a pH drop in the ocean surrounding the coral. It is like suggesting that dropping a sealed jar of acid into a tank of water will make the entire tank acid. It just is not true.

Jim,

It has been known for some time now that dropping the pH of the ocean water surrounding a coral animal interferes with the formation of the coral skeleton. So far, CO2 increase has dropped ocean water by just 0.1 of a pH point, which is still insufficient to cause much harm. But if it drops too much further, it will kill corals. Acidifying the tiny film of water surrounding an algal cell inside coral tissue is a totally different matter, since that acidified water does not touch the coral skeleton. Are you going to continue to cover up your own understanding of basic science with insults?

You need to understand the difference between pH control inside an organism's tissues and the harm from pH drop in the surrounding environment. They are NOT the same thing. The human body has a very low pH in the stomach, but the same low pH in the blood would kill you. Localised pH drop is an adaptation. Widespread pH drop is a hazard.

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Re: Carbon in the Earth's mantle

Post by Jim Steele » Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:20 am

Lance Kennedy wrote: Jum cannot read and understand scientific papers. The PNAS reference he supplied shows that, inside the membrane enclosing an algal cell, the pH drops. That is a totally different thing to a pH drop in the ocean surrounding the coral. It is like suggesting that dropping a sealed jar of acid into a tank of water will make the entire tank acid. It just is not true.
ROTFLMAO Your jar of acid example suggests you must be Bobbo's twin, because it is a totally bogus strawman argument showing you do not understand coral energetics at all.

You once correctly reported that the issue is about transporting H+. In order to photosynthesize, coral import H+ ions to lower their internal pH. When the surrounding waters is more acidic, there is more H+ ions making it energetically less costly to import H+ ions from the ocean into the coral. I hope that clears up your gross misunderstanding.

And again Lance. Instead of ranting, provide the scientific papers that prove your point. Excessive blather offers nothing to promote the truth of the matter and only reveals your obsession with your own views.
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Re: Carbon in the Earth's mantle

Post by Jim Steele » Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:35 am

Lance Kennedy wrote: You need to understand the difference between pH control inside an organism's tissues and the harm from pH drop in the surrounding environment. They are NOT the same thing.
ROTFLMAO. Do you keep a straight face when you launch these veiled insults???

You ignore the fact that coral reefs are net outgassers of CO2 thus there is no effect of invading atmopsheric CO2. You ignore the fact that tropical waters are the most supersaturated waters on earth. And then you want to tell me that coral are suffering from acidification??? And despite obvious ignorance, you offer a narrative that I dont understand the science

ROTFLMAO
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Re: Carbon in the Earth's mantle

Post by Lance Kennedy » Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:08 am

Jim

You have a limited knowledge of biology. Most living things have a degree of control over their internal pH. This often means that the pH in one part of the body is different to that of a another. The corals keep low pH inside the membrane surrounding the alga. But the coral skeleton is exposed to the ocean and cannot tolerate low pH. It degrades when exposed to high hydrogen ion concentration. The fact that the coral emits CO2 is irrelevant since the ocean water carries that away to prevent any local high concentration.

The coral skeleton is CaCO3. In the presence of hydrogen ions, it degrades. Simple chemistry. If the pH of the ocean is too low, then the degradation takes place. This is not just theory. This is backed by empirical studies, where scientists increase the CO2 levels in tanks and actually see the corals die and their skeletons degrade.

All living organisms have an ideal ambient pH. Corals have evolved to thrive at a pH well above 7, which is the normal ocean pH.

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Re: Carbon in the Earth's mantle

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:14 am

Gee Whiz:

1. You ignore the fact that coral reefs are net outgassers of CO2 thus there is no effect of invading atmopsheric CO2. /// Thats quite a violent disconnect you force together there. Humans outgas co2. We die from higher concentrations of it too. Most organisms will die if concentrations of their "waste products" build up. It was true in my aquarium.... never had the problem personally.

2. You ignore the fact that tropical waters are the most supersaturated waters on earth. //// Cold water holds more gas? So....what do you mean by this????

3. And then you want to tell me that coral are suffering from acidification??? /// Thats what a lot of headlines say. I know: everyone wrong but you across a broad range of subjects. That must get irritating?

4. And despite obvious ignorance, you offer a narrative that I dont understand the science //// Well..... explain 1-3 above.
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Re: Carbon in the Earth's mantle

Post by Lance Kennedy » Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:19 am

An example of the kind of experimental work done is published in the peer reviewed journal called : Global Geochemical Cycles, Vol 17, no.1. 1011 under the title "Effect of elevated CO2 on the community metabolism of an experimental coral reef."

Their conclusion is : "We conclude that under natural nutrient limited conditions, elevated CO2 depresses calcification."

Nutrient limited is the natural state of a coral reef, which is why they have symbiotic algae. Depressing calcification means the coral cannot build its skeleton at the normal rate, and it erodes instead. High CO2 is toxic to corals.

Note that this work is NOT some bulldust deduction, but real empirical studies which actually looked at what happens in the real world.

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Re: Carbon in the Earth's mantle

Post by Jim Steele » Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:20 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:Note that this work is NOT some bulldust deduction, but real empirical studies which actually looked at what happens in the real world.
ROTFLMAO Yes Lance your citation is from the real world . And all my citations of peer reviewed literature that were just fantasy bulldust. ROTFLMAO
x
Do you realize how self righteous and obnoious you can be?

You you are also not quite honest. The study happened in Biosphere 2 in Tuscon AZ. It was not done in the "real world". The main photosynthesizers were macroalgae NOT coral. The lack of nutrients do not reflect real life. Upwelling can bring surplus nutrients. WInter cold expands the mixed layer an winter mixing brings nutrients to the surface.

Out of kindness Lance, I suggest you stop biting off your nose to save face. To any knowledgeable scientist, you only possess a limited amount of knowledge, just enough to be dangerous . You are grossly ill-informed to engage in a debate where you present yourself as someone with "superior knowledge". It is obvious you are not even a biologist.
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Re: Carbon in the Earth's mantle

Post by Lance Kennedy » Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:35 am

http://agris.fao.org/agris-search/searc ... 2012089498

The above reference also discusses the harm from CO2 acidification of the oceans. There are many such. You, Jim, are like a climate skeptic. You are posting ideas that are the reverse of what the vast majority of scientists in this field have discovered to be correct.

For your information, I have a bachelor's degree in biology. But I do not think of myself as having 'superior knowledge' in this area. Just an appreciation of what genuine scientists working in this field have discovered.

Your statement about upwellings is an occasional reality, but most coral reefs exist, in fact, in a relatively nutrient depleted environment. Do you actually have any knowledge on coral reef ecology? I do. Both from my studies and from the fact that I am a scuba diover, and have explored numerous coral reefs first hand.

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Re: Carbon in the Earth's mantle

Post by Jim Steele » Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:25 am

Lance do tell what your coral studies determined. What reefs dud you study??? I Snorkel, but I am curious how you can estimate coral productivity just because you scuba dive.
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Re: Carbon in the Earth's mantle

Post by Lance Kennedy » Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:42 am

Scuba diving gives me the interest to study a bit more of the subject. When I encounter the species that live on a coral reef, I am motivated to learn about their ecology.