Why the Global Average Temperature is really just Regional

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Jim Steele
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Why the Global Average Temperature is really just Regional

Post by Jim Steele » Fri Feb 03, 2017 6:05 pm

Many falsely argue that regional temperatures are irrelevant, and only global temperatures reveal climate sensitivity to CO2. However there is no temperature data for most of the earth. Climate scientists guess what the global temperature "should" be by extrapolating regional temperatures.

For example NOAA's estimate of December's global temperature anomalies reveal most of the earth supplied NO DATA! Warmunsitas often dismiss the lack of warming in the USA data as cherry-picking, but in truth it represents 25% to 33% of the measured global surface data. The gray areas represent no data.

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Re: Why the Global Average Temperature is really just Regional

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Feb 03, 2017 6:23 pm

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Re: Why the Global Average Temperature is really just Regional

Post by Jim Steele » Sat Feb 04, 2017 4:00 am

I assume Gawdzilla that your reply is a statement reflecting the ridiculousness of a so-called "global average temperature" when the scientific evidence shows only a small sampling of the globe contributes to the average.

Excuse me if I misinterpret, but your posts, as exemplified here, typically lack any substance.
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Re: Why the Global Average Temperature is really just Regional

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Feb 04, 2017 4:30 am

JS: does noaa guess what "it should be" or create their averages based on the data they do have?

From as close to your gif as i can get as you never provide links to your data, your gif is preceded by:
"Global Summary Information - December 2016

See Full Report
2016 is Earth's warmest year, culminating in a remarkable 3-year streak of record warm years for the globe.
Interesting such fraudulent headlines would also provide the very gifs you use to deny NOAA's own conclusions????

https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/
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Re: Why the Global Average Temperature is really just Regional

Post by Jim Steele » Sat Feb 04, 2017 5:23 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:JS: does noaa guess what "it should be" or create their averages based on the data they do have?
What difference does it make? No matter what it is fabricated. Which half of the USA data would you choose. The cooling data or warming dats? ROTFLMAO Fabricated data can not be tested for its truthfulness and arguments based on such questionable data is meaningless.

No need to spoon feed you a link. You easily found it was from NOAA. And as I told you before when you engaged in such meaningless sniping, double clicking on the graph provides the URL from which the graph was taken.

Finally that NOAA claims warmest December global temperatures evuh despite lacking data from over 3/4 of the earth is quite telling regards the robubstness of their claims!!!

So what's your point??????
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Re: Why the Global Average Temperature is really just Regional

Post by Jim Steele » Sun Feb 05, 2017 9:46 pm

Tony Heller has created an excellent animated gif from 2 of NOAA's graph, showing how NOAA reported record warmth from a region where they have no data.


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Re: Why the Global Average Temperature is really just Regional

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:22 pm

JIm Steele wrote:
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:JS: does noaa guess what "it should be" or create their averages based on the data they do have?
What difference does it make? No matter what it is fabricated. //// This difference is just that. If they base estimates on data they DO HAVE, then they are not facricating anything. As stated a while back, such an imprecise measuring protocol can still correctly model change in the whole system....depending on how uniform it all it.

Which half of the USA data would you choose. The cooling data or warming dats? //// You use all the data you actually have.

ROTFLMAO //// Indeed.

Fabricated data can not be tested for its truthfulness and arguments based on such questionable data is meaningless./// Exactly.

No need to spoon feed you a link. You easily found it was from NOAA. And as I told you before when you engaged in such meaningless sniping, double clicking on the graph provides the URL from which the graph was taken. /// It only gives you the general source....not the article that contains the graph you use, or even the right month of publication. Its simple documentation and scholarship that is being requested.

Finally that NOAA claims warmest December global temperatures evuh despite lacking data from over 3/4 of the earth is quite telling regards the robubstness of their claims!!! //// Maybe. but if its the best you can do, then its the best you can do.....and odds are, its just fine. What would have to be going on in the 3/4th not measured to obviate what is measured in the 1/4th? You think the middle of the ocean is getting colder while on average everywhere that is measured is getting warmer?

So what's your point?????? /// Read.
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Re: Why the Global Average Temperature is really just Regional

Post by Jim Steele » Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:13 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:What difference does it make? No matter what it is fabricated. //// This difference is just that. If they base estimates on data they DO HAVE, then they are not fabcricating anything.
Your logic fails me. Creating regional trends based on the data that is absent is not good science.

Asserting a global average based on limited samples from regions with available data, plus other regions based on data they do NOT have, creates a fallacious global average.

Such conclusions are like sserting the global average for human height is 8 feet tall based on data that shows 30 % of the people are 5 foot 10, and my belief everyone else is taller. Such an assertion is scientifically unreliable. The only trustworthy conclusion based on data would be 30% of the humans average 5 foot 10 inches. Any assertion beyond what the data reveals, is nothing more than unsupported speculation at best, and dishonest and useless information at worse.
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Re: Why the Global Average Temperature is really just Regional

Post by OutOfBreath » Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:10 am

JIm Steele wrote:Tony Heller has created an excellent animated gif from 2 of NOAA's graph, showing how NOAA reported record warmth from a region where they have no data.


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Did you even read the heading on the maps, Einstein?
The least detailed one was exclusively GHCNM whereas the more detailed one were GHCNM + ERSST. In other words: the second one combines several datasets, whereas the first is exclusively from one limited dataset.

It's (failed) "gotcha" BS like this that leaves you with no credibility, and reveals the political (or contrarian) motivation behind this.

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Re: Why the Global Average Temperature is really just Regional

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:20 pm

Quibbling over erroneous impressions is the hallmark of conspiracy theorist like Steele & Co.
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Re: Why the Global Average Temperature is really just Regional

Post by Jim Steele » Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:38 pm

OutOfBreath wrote: Did you even read the heading on the maps, Einstein?
The least detailed one was exclusively GHCNM whereas the more detailed one were GHCNM + ERSST. In other words: the second one combines several datasets, whereas the first is exclusively from one limited dataset.

It's (failed) "gotcha" BS like this that leaves you with no credibility, and reveals the political (or contrarian) motivation behind this.

Peace
Dan
ROTFLMAO. I detect a lack of sincerity when you call me Einstein.

But perhaps you can put your personal venom aside and explain to me what is not so obvious.

First are you aware that ERSST is reconstruction of sea surface temperatures? ERSST Sea surface data is even more sparse than land data from the GHCN data set, and fills in the missing data via statistical extrapolation that is subjectively guided.

The first graph of GHCN shows just land temperatures and no Arican data. By adding the ERSST data set, that graph now illustrates ocean temperatures and land temperatures and record inland African temperatures.

Perhaps you can educate me because I fail to understand why you believe adding sea surface temperatures to the missing GHCN data creates record warm land temperatures in the interior of Africa??? To quote, such unfounded statistical wizardry "reveals the political (or contrarian) motivation behind this"
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Re: Why the Global Average Temperature is really just Regional

Post by Jim Steele » Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:11 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Quibbling over erroneous impressions is the hallmark of conspiracy theorist like Steele & Co.
Gawdzill, please argue the evidence. I have clearly shown where there are huge data gaps, approximately 50% of the land surface. Therefore graphs of global temperature change is really extrapolated regional change modified by imagined data.

If you have evidence to counteract those observations, then please present them. Good science is based on vetting hypotheses and the methods of acquiring and interpreting data.

Instead as you are wont to do, you engage in a personal attack, trying to denigrate me as a "conspiracy theorist". You confuse/dismiss accurate and critical examinations of methods and evidence, with your bizarre notion of conspiracy.
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Re: Why the Global Average Temperature is really just Regional

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:38 pm

I wonder why I should read the posts of a person who can't spell "Jim"?
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Re: Why the Global Average Temperature is really just Regional

Post by Jim Steele » Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:53 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:I wonder why I should read the posts of a person who can't spell "Jim"?
ROTFLMAO. Such scientific rebuttals reveal your deep critical thinking and rich background in climate science that enriches all of us on this forum.
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Re: Why the Global Average Temperature is really just Regional

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:16 am

Bless the good ship Ignore and all who flail on her.
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Re: Why the Global Average Temperature is really just Regional

Post by Jim Steele » Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:07 am

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Bless the good ship Ignore and all who flail on her.
Unfortunately you missed that boat! So instead of treading water perhaps you want to try debating science??
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Re: Why the Global Average Temperature is really just Regional

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:10 am

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Re: Why the Global Average Temperature is really just Regional

Post by Jim Steele » Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:26 pm

Straight from the horse's mouth! Another way of looking at why the USA temperature data set best represents global climate based on density and longevity of weather stations and published in peer reviewed science

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