another stupid idea for you to destroy

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another stupid idea for you to destroy

Post by psychiatry is a scam » Fri Oct 21, 2016 2:32 am

what would happen if an area that has turned into desert ; was flooded with sea water ?

would it be better than having a desert ?

have to admit most areas are too high above sea level for this to happen .

death valley might be an area ?

no clue about the logistics / slash cost . - salton sea might be feasible ?

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Re: another stupid idea for you to destroy

Post by Gord » Fri Oct 21, 2016 4:14 am

It would get wet?

A desert is a desert because of regional climate conditions. Filling it with water probably won't change those conditions, so it would dry out again eventually unless you could repeatedly flood the area, or create a naturally renewing source of flooding.

Death Valley is below sea level in places, but it is surrounded by mountains that effectively wall it in. Getting water to the area would be difficult. Making a branch to the Pacific would mean removing mountains, flooding land in between Death Valley and the ocean, disrupting the current flow of fresh water.

Would it be "better" than having a desert? I'll just say "no" to avoid all the difficult details. I'd expect the "best" result would be an inland salt sea. You've probably got more, stable, viable wildlife in Death Valley in its current condition that you'd end up with if it were turned into a salt sea.

Also see, for example, this brief discussion: https://www.quora.com/Has-anyone-propos ... ific-Ocean
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Re: another stupid idea for you to destroy

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Oct 21, 2016 4:29 am

Long ago I read an article about digging a ditch from the Mediterrean to the Dead Sea. Idea was to revive the Dead Sea and evidently along the route enough electrical energy could be pulled from the flow as well. The article even said it could be designed so that the evaporation rate of the whole project would be set so that the Dead Sea would never fill up...I still kinda doubt that....but thats what it said. There isn't much life in an all out desert. Scrub lands.... yes. Desert with no water?.... not so much.
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Re: another stupid idea for you to destroy

Post by ElectricMonk » Fri Oct 21, 2016 5:31 am

Let's assume we pipe seawater to a desert.

The result would be catastrophic for the surrounding environment, creating salt marshes all around. It would also evaporate at a steep rate, massively affecting the local weather.

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Re: another stupid idea for you to destroy

Post by Gord » Fri Oct 21, 2016 7:06 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:There isn't much life in an all out desert.
Death Valley has fauna living in it. It also has seasonal changes, when it gets more water.

http://digital-desert.com/death-valley/wildlife/
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Re: another stupid idea for you to destroy

Post by TJrandom » Fri Oct 21, 2016 7:55 am

Just think about those rocks that move across the desert floor. What would happen to them? Don`t they have rights too?

http://www.sci-news.com/physics/science ... 02148.html

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Re: another stupid idea for you to destroy

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Oct 21, 2016 2:46 pm

We have desert land in California that has been irrigated, and irrigation leaves salt behind, so your scenario in the OP has already happened. The land is pretty much useless for crops now.
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Re: another stupid idea for you to destroy

Post by Monster » Fri Oct 21, 2016 3:33 pm

psychiatry is a scam wrote:what would happen if an area that has turned into desert ; was flooded with sea water ?

would it be better than having a desert ?

have to admit most areas are too high above sea level for this to happen .

death valley might be an area ?

no clue about the logistics / slash cost . - salton sea might be feasible ?
Death Valley is its own ecosystem and flooding it would destroy the extant ecosystem, especially with seawater.
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Re: another stupid idea for you to destroy

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:27 pm

Geo forming. Like all other issues, there are pros and cons to every decision including no decision. As a general premise...I agree letting salt water into an interior doesn't make much sense given the long term increasing salinity. I think thats the main issue re the DEAD sea..its saltier than the ocean. No harm there....all benefits.....including last I saw a huge salt harvesting operation. Same with Great Salt Lake in USA...except it is well above sea level making ocean drainage a non issue.

With all the animals and plants going extinct right now in highly diverse eco systems.......if there was any "significant" gain to be had by flooding a Desert...I'd say let her rip. We don't need 400 pup fish when tuna are being over fished to extinction.

Always a judgment call........... so lets use it?
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Re: another stupid idea for you to destroy

Post by psychiatry is a scam » Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:50 pm

Gord wrote:It would get wet?

A desert is a desert because of regional climate conditions. Filling it with water probably won't change those conditions, so it would dry out again eventually unless you could repeatedly flood the area, or create a naturally renewing source of flooding.

Death Valley is below sea level in places, but it is surrounded by mountains that effectively wall it in. Getting water to the area would be difficult. Making a branch to the Pacific would mean removing mountains, flooding land in between Death Valley and the ocean, disrupting the current flow of fresh water.

Would it be "better" than having a desert? I'll just say "no" to avoid all the difficult details. I'd expect the "best" result would be an inland salt sea. You've probably got more, stable, viable wildlife in Death Valley in its current condition that you'd end up with if it were turned into a salt sea.

Also see, for example, this brief discussion: https://www.quora.com/Has-anyone-propos ... ific-Ocean
good point about weather - just watched a story about how the rotation / spinning of the earth causes rain forests at the equator and deserts farther north .

so a channel isn't an option , how about a tunnel ? lowest area ( badwater basin ) is salt flat , so adding water would not change much ?

main question based on your link - will the evaporating salt water help ???
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Re: another stupid idea for you to destroy

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:53 pm

Why focus on a desert? Why not take all the marginal land in the world and make it productive?
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Re: another stupid idea for you to destroy

Post by psychiatry is a scam » Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:58 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Why focus on a desert? Why not take all the marginal land in the world and make it productive?
more productive how ? as a salt marsh ?

any specific ideal location ?

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Re: another stupid idea for you to destroy

Post by psychiatry is a scam » Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:59 pm

oh and California has the big bucks to try something huge

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Re: another stupid idea for you to destroy

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:11 am

I hate myself for this, but what is actually required is to GMO Hooman Beings with a little Bull Shark dna so we can drink salt water and excrete crystals. Let people choose their anus or their nose?....Maybe eye ducts? //// EDIT: and then, we could recirculate waste water which would be relatively cheaper to do than with salt water.

What a perfect future.
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Re: another stupid idea for you to destroy

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:17 am

psychiatry is a scam wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Why focus on a desert? Why not take all the marginal land in the world and make it productive?
more productive how ? as a salt marsh ?

any specific ideal location ?
If you'd have asked me that ten years ago I could have pulled up a file with like locations. Shave the Matto Grasso smooth and improve the soil and you have a breakbasket. Properly exploit the Russian steppe and people could eat for a long time.
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Re: another stupid idea for you to destroy

Post by psychiatry is a scam » Sat Oct 22, 2016 3:16 am

how about deep well injection of sea water ?
they do that with waste water /whatever that is

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Re: another stupid idea for you to destroy

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:44 pm

psychiatry is a scam wrote:how about deep well injection of sea water ?
they do that with waste water /whatever that is
What are you trying to achieve by injecting salt water? What do you hope to accomplish?
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Re: another stupid idea for you to destroy

Post by psychiatry is a scam » Sun Oct 23, 2016 2:04 am

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
psychiatry is a scam wrote:how about deep well injection of sea water ?
they do that with waste water /whatever that is
What are you trying to achieve by injecting salt water? What do you hope to accomplish?
last show I watched about California drought had the guy driving down a highway - whole area has sunk over 20 feet because all the water has been sucked out .

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Re: another stupid idea for you to destroy

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Oct 23, 2016 2:09 am

..... and the worst thing that could happen would be to fill the void created with salt water..... so... what is your point?
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Re: another stupid idea for you to destroy

Post by psychiatry is a scam » Sun Oct 23, 2016 2:10 am

ElectricMonk wrote:Let's assume we pipe seawater to a desert.

The result would be catastrophic for the surrounding environment, creating salt marshes all around. It would also evaporate at a steep rate, massively affecting the local weather.
are you sure the evaporation would be bad for the local weather ? maybe a link to a story ?

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Re: another stupid idea for you to destroy

Post by psychiatry is a scam » Sun Oct 23, 2016 2:12 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:..... and the worst thing that could happen would be to fill the void created with salt water..... so... what is your point?
took me a while to figure that sentence out - so salt water wood be bad - and we know this because ?

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Re: another stupid idea for you to destroy

Post by ElectricMonk » Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:19 am

There are only few organisms that are salt-tolerant. Salt swamps are pretty nasty places with a very narrow fauna and flora. Salt desserts are nearly sterile. There are some halophilc archaebacteria, but not much else.

The evaporated water might or might not do good, but we would have to keep on pumping seawater in all the time, filling the place up with more and more salt.

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Re: another stupid idea for you to destroy

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Oct 23, 2016 9:18 am

psychiatry is a scam wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
psychiatry is a scam wrote:how about deep well injection of sea water ?
they do that with waste water /whatever that is
What are you trying to achieve by injecting salt water? What do you hope to accomplish?
last show I watched about California drought had the guy driving down a highway - whole area has sunk over 20 feet because all the water has been sucked out .
Still not telling us what you want to achieve by injecting salt water.

And TV shows are authoritative.
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Re: another stupid idea for you to destroy

Post by psychiatry is a scam » Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:51 am

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
psychiatry is a scam wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
psychiatry is a scam wrote:how about deep well injection of sea water ?
they do that with waste water /whatever that is
What are you trying to achieve by injecting salt water? What do you hope to accomplish?
last show I watched about California drought had the guy driving down a highway - whole area has sunk over 20 feet because all the water has been sucked out .
Still not telling us what you want to achieve by injecting salt water.

And TV shows are authoritative.
guessing the people who do deep well injecting of toxic sludge claim the sediment will clean the water ?

sooo maybe sea water can be cleaned the same way ?

have to admit gord almost destroyed this dream with his first link ; I'm just always unwilling to give up .

has to be some way of using sea water

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Re: another stupid idea for you to destroy

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Oct 24, 2016 1:18 am

psychiatry is a scam wrote:
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:..... and the worst thing that could happen would be to fill the void created with salt water..... so... what is your point?
took me a while to figure that sentence out - so salt water wood be bad - and we know this because ?
Gee Pyche---you really put me up on the meat hooks there. Now....just why do I think salt water is bad? If I'm really honest, it all comes down to a movie I saw in my youth with navy men in a raft in the ocean dying of thirst: "Don't drink the salt water.... it'll kill ya."

Do you think I should check that Hollywood fact? ///// All the science tech articles about having to de-salinate sea water for drinking or growing plants is just a continuing hoax by climate scientists?

aka: how basic can we get?
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Re: another stupid idea for you to destroy

Post by TJrandom » Mon Oct 24, 2016 4:07 am

psychiatry is a scam wrote: ... has to be some way of using sea water
There is... saltwater fish like it. So do whales and even divers. Plus it evaporates and thus creates fresh water which falls as rain. ;)

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Re: another stupid idea for you to destroy

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Oct 24, 2016 10:03 am

psychiatry is a scam wrote:
has to be some way of using sea water
Desalination is the best we've got right now, and simply using salt water is not really going to help in the long run. There are no easy fixes.
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Re: another stupid idea for you to destroy

Post by Gord » Mon Oct 24, 2016 10:44 am

"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
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