Michael Sandel examines If Rich should Pay For Climate Change

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Michael Sandel examines If Rich should Pay For Climate Change

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Aug 27, 2016 6:25 am

I have yet to watch this but want to post for those with an interest in the subject ... or in Michael Sandel. He his a Harvard Law Professor who has an excellent video series on Justice Issues that played ...on Public Television??? On the Web too I think. Excellent demonstration of how law is taught through the Socratic Method. I assume this will be his approach on this subject.

Before viewing, my own opinion is: of course. What other option is there....that has a chance of actually working???

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0424yc4
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Re: Michael Sandel examines If Rich should Pay For Climate Change

Post by Gord » Sat Aug 27, 2016 6:51 am

The title seems troublesome. Paying for climate change? They've already paid for it; the question ought to be, should the rich pay to mitigate it.
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Re: Michael Sandel examines If Rich should Pay For Climate Change

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Aug 27, 2016 6:57 am

Gord: I take your point...but on that point, I don't see how "anyone" has paid for the dumping of co2 into the atmosphere. In fact I'd say the Rich Countries have currently off shored much of the cost/(aka: damage) to third world and developing economies...but this is the environmental degradation like air and water pollution and so forth. The problem with co2 is that it does not express itself only locally but rather spreads out to the whole world. That does connect the cause and effect of it all though. If America wants to stop the co2 pollution caused by the manufacturing of crap that America buys...then we have to "help" the third world to stop polluting.

Can't sweep "our" pollution under the rug...no one else to blame.
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Re: Michael Sandel examines If Rich should Pay For Climate Change

Post by ElectricMonk » Sat Aug 27, 2016 7:00 am

That would be sooo wrong!
We'll just make the rich buy all the public and private debt - and then cancel it.

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Re: Michael Sandel examines If Rich should Pay For Climate Change

Post by Paul Anthony » Sat Aug 27, 2016 7:53 pm

ElectricMonk wrote:That would be sooo wrong!
We'll just make the rich buy all the public and private debt - and then cancel it.
You mean like the Federal Reserve does with government debt? Sorry, if you want to get bailed out you have to start your own government. ;)
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Re: Michael Sandel examines If Rich should Pay For Climate Change

Post by ElectricMonk » Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:24 am

Paul Anthony wrote:
ElectricMonk wrote:That would be sooo wrong!
We'll just make the rich buy all the public and private debt - and then cancel it.
You mean like the Federal Reserve does with government debt? Sorry, if you want to get bailed out you have to start your own government. ;)
there is nothing radical about the idea of debt cancellation, private or public: it's the idea that debts must always be paid that's new.

by definition, debt (both private and public) is held by those who could afford to buy it.
The question is only: is it held by some retirement fonds or speculators? Would the net economic effect be positive or negative?

We know that both states and individuals with too much debt can not function, and need to have their debts forgiven. Part of lending is the risk of losing the money.

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Re: Michael Sandel examines If Rich should Pay For Climate Change

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:17 am

Finally got to the video....interesting the 60 monitors set up for the "Global Conversation." I'm on slow dsl right now and its too jerky to try to listen too. I'll save the website for 3 months from now when I get a faster connection....but by then, the Theater in the Round will probably be replaced by a Virtual Reality Format?....but I should be capable of that too!

Other good topics listed in the sidebar. BBC...always good programming.
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Re: Michael Sandel examines If Rich should Pay For Climate Change

Post by Paul Anthony » Tue Aug 30, 2016 2:09 am

ElectricMonk wrote:
Paul Anthony wrote:
ElectricMonk wrote:That would be sooo wrong!
We'll just make the rich buy all the public and private debt - and then cancel it.
You mean like the Federal Reserve does with government debt? Sorry, if you want to get bailed out you have to start your own government. ;)
there is nothing radical about the idea of debt cancellation, private or public: it's the idea that debts must always be paid that's new.

by definition, debt (both private and public) is held by those who could afford to buy it.
The question is only: is it held by some retirement fonds or speculators? Would the net economic effect be positive or negative?

We know that both states and individuals with too much debt can not function, and need to have their debts forgiven. Part of lending is the risk of losing the money.
Debt forgiveness is legal. It's called "bankruptcy". But when a country declares bankruptcy, other countries don't want to play with it anymore. Also, it's citizens get screwed.
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Re: Michael Sandel examines If Rich should Pay For Climate Change

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:41 am

I don't think bankruptcy is "legal" for a country to do. Its definitional finally resolving on vague concepts usually not applied when it matters.
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Re: Michael Sandel examines If Rich should Pay For Climate Change

Post by ElectricMonk » Tue Aug 30, 2016 3:20 pm

Paul Anthony wrote: Debt forgiveness is legal. It's called "bankruptcy". But when a country declares bankruptcy, other countries don't want to play with it anymore. Also, it's citizens get screwed.
it depends entirely on how the bankruptcy is done - Argentina had some 'good' and some bad bankruptcies.
And are the citizens more screwed if the have to pay massive taxes to fund the interest rates, or are they more screwed if they have to pay extra for foreign goods while the country recovers its credibility?
Often it's not clear what the lesser evil is, but only the creditors insist that debt must always be paid. But every cent you lend to someone comes with the risk of insolvency, so no one should be surprised if people and entire countries say: we can't and won't pay this anymore.