The Coral Bleaching Debate

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Re: The Coral Bleaching Debate

Post by TJrandom » Sun Feb 19, 2017 3:00 am

Pssst... large font bespeaks a feeble mind....

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Re: The Coral Bleaching Debate

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Feb 19, 2017 3:16 am

WHAT?
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Re: The Coral Bleaching Debate

Post by Jim Steele » Sun Feb 19, 2017 5:49 am

TJrandom wrote:Pssst... large font bespeaks a feeble mind....
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But feeble minds can accurately show no endangered species here! Polar bears thriving! Not melting summer ice but heavy spring ice is biggest threat to seals and bears. TJ mad because he cant refute.

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Re: The Coral Bleaching Debate

Post by TJrandom » Sun Feb 19, 2017 5:58 am

Again Jim deflects - having long lost any credibility, since you hide behind theatrics, and no longer defend your assertion that no species has been harmed by climate change whether manmade or natural. Please do find a rock to hide under – it is very dishonest of you to continue to post here.

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Re: The Coral Bleaching Debate

Post by TJrandom » Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:00 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:WHAT?
As in loud laugh...

http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/20957-a ... acant-mind

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Re: The Coral Bleaching Debate

Post by Jim Steele » Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:27 am

TJrandom wrote:Again Jim deflects - having long lost any credibility, since you hide behind theatrics, and no longer defend your assertion that no species has been harmed by climate change whether manmade or natural. Please do find a rock to hide under – it is very dishonest of you to continue to post here.
A whole essay on how resilient coral are and linked to peer reviewed evidence. TJ could not refute a single claim. So he goes on a binge of insults and claims I lost credibility. Too funny

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Re: The Coral Bleaching Debate

Post by TJrandom » Sun Feb 19, 2017 7:40 am

Jim`s claim was that no species has been harmed by climate change whether caused by man or nature. He won`t define harm as it relates to climate change or his claim, but seemingly believes that no harm occurs because some species are resilient enough to overcome the impacts and evolve, or alternatively, that the impacts so far have been insufficient to cause extinction in most cases. Where extinction has occurred, he belittles that species as being `dead end`, inconsequential, not worthy of discussion - rabbit hole stuff.

That Jim has provided some good information on coral, is irrelevant to his claim. He continues to use cheap theatrics to divert attention from his failings.

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Re: The Coral Bleaching Debate

Post by Jim Steele » Sun Feb 19, 2017 7:56 am

No animal has gone extinct due to CO2, TJ has never provided evidence to refute that claim. He thinks if someone asserts a connection to CO2 then naively it must be true no matter how much evidence to the contrary. So he indulges in insults. Doesnt make much sense

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Re: The Coral Bleaching Debate

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Feb 19, 2017 8:08 am

Tj: yea verily. And that is just his positioning on this thread. Across the gamut, he claims every science denying fact there is. It varies. He agrees co2 is a green house gas...but then argues that it doesn't warm the atmosphere. "It doesn't warm the atmosphere because you can't prove it wasn't warmed by natural causes."..... and then that the earth hasn't warmed to begin with. Ice "on average" is not melting because it is growing in Antarctica and besides...mathematical averages are a chimera and cannot be done. There's even more..... but I get a bit ill just trying to remember all.

Sad his wealth of knowledge is put to such use.

Pre Posting: I see the argument that no animal has gone extinct. So.... what is that rat evidence? I won't go look up exactly what you said. It doesn't matter if a handfull of specifies has gone extinct. The mechanism is well underway for nearly ALL species to go extinct. We are at the last gasp of the early warning stage... absent some kind of massive investment in carbon removing technology. Sadly.... even when species start dying off left and right.... that still won't be "proof" as JS is demanding it: the exclusion of all other causes.

Good thing: the consensus of qualified scientists don't even discuss the subject....... its not even an issue. Probably shouldn't be for us either.
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Re: The Coral Bleaching Debate

Post by TJrandom » Sun Feb 19, 2017 8:37 am

JIm Steele wrote:No animal has gone extinct due to CO2, TJ has never provided evidence to refute that claim. He thinks if someone asserts a connection to CO2 then naively it must be true no matter how much evidence to the contrary. So he indulges in insults. Doesnt make much sense

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Nor have I ever made that claim, and neither have I ever given you cause to know what I think about CO2 connectivity. You are creating strawmen and avoiding the elephant in the room - your assertion as I posted above.

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Re: The Coral Bleaching Debate

Post by Jim Steele » Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:39 pm

TJrandom wrote: Nor have I ever made that claim, and neither have I ever given you cause to know what I think about CO2 connectivity. You are creating strawmen and avoiding the elephant in the room - your assertion as I posted above.
But this whole discussion is about whether or not hypothesized CO2 caused global warming has caused extinction and endangered wildlife
But TJ resumed this thread stating,

because it seemed rather fruitless given that the consensus that climate change is real and man made, and seems mostly to be challenged by deniers with an agenda other than pursuit of knowledge. I have read various news articles on coral since that last post (Okinawa, Australia) and each pointed to climate change, so no real reason for me to think otherwise.
As the natives would say, TJ speaks with forked tongue

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Re: The Coral Bleaching Debate

Post by TJrandom » Sun Feb 19, 2017 7:37 pm

JIm Steele wrote:
TJrandom wrote: Nor have I ever made that claim, and neither have I ever given you cause to know what I think about CO2 connectivity. You are creating strawmen and avoiding the elephant in the room - your assertion as I posted above.
But this whole discussion is about whether or not hypothesized CO2 caused global warming has caused extinction and endangered wildlife
But TJ resumed this thread stating,

because it seemed rather fruitless given that the consensus that climate change is real and man made, and seems mostly to be challenged by deniers with an agenda other than pursuit of knowledge. I have read various news articles on coral since that last post (Okinawa, Australia) and each pointed to climate change, so no real reason for me to think otherwise.
As the natives would say, TJ speaks with forked tongue

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Another selfie, how boring.

It seems that Jim doesn`t understand what he asserted, much less what others write. I did not resume this thread - it was ongoing. Jim begged for attention then failed to clarify the meaning of his assertion. From there he simply proceeded on to cheap theatrics.

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Re: The Coral Bleaching Debate

Post by Jim Steele » Sun Feb 19, 2017 11:09 pm

TJrandom wrote: I did not resume this thread - it was ongoing. Jim begged for attention then failed to clarify the meaning of his assertion. From there he simply proceeded on to cheap theatrics.
ROTFLMAO

TJ ForkTongue lies again. MY last post discussed the coral issue July 26, 2016 viewtopic.php?f=40&t=26817&start=80#p527710

NO other posts occured after that until TJ reopened it 7 months later "begging" to know if I had changed my position.

TJ reopened the thread February 11, 2017. TJ then lies again that I failed to clarify meaning. Oddly TJ does not discuss a single point of my essay, but tries to divert attention to the disappearance of marooned rats. The substance of this thread's essay clearly clarifies why coral are not suffering from CO2 climate change, and illustrates what happens naturally. To determine any harm I said we must first determine the boundaries of natural variability, TJ lies again and says I wont define harm. He wants to go down a existential rabbit hole discussing "harm". Discussing does the parrot fish harm coral, would be a stupid worthless discussion unless natural variability is outlined. The key is defining the boundaries of natural variability. But TJ (and bobbo) wanted to divert attention elsewhere

TJ loses all integrity when he persists in his lies and phony diversions. Perhaps "cheap theatrics" is the most TJ should expect, and kinder than he deserves. Perhaps TJ can link to his post directly linking and specifically refuting anything I reported about coral? Has TJ done that even once in this thread? So what is TJ's motive

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Re: The Coral Bleaching Debate

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Feb 19, 2017 11:13 pm

TJrandom wrote: From there he simply proceeded on to cheap theatrics.
As he routinely does not respond directly to the arguments against him............. I prefer the cheap theatrics.... aka..nice pics.
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Re: The Coral Bleaching Debate

Post by Jim Steele » Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:14 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:As he routinely does not respond directly to the arguments against him.........
Your nose is growing bobbo. I dont respond to irrelevant questions that are repeated 100s of time or ones that are meant to divert the topic. TJ asked to have a sincere discussion about coral free from insults. I responded with this essay. TJ responded with BS, diversions, insults and virtually nothing about coral.

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Last edited by Jim Steele on Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Coral Bleaching Debate

Post by Jim Steele » Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:16 am

JIm Steele wrote:
TJrandom wrote: As for your scribble on climate change – you have long lost any credibility, since you hide behind theatrics, and no longer defend your assertion that no species has been harmed by climate change whether manmade or natural. Please do find a rock to hide under – it is very dishonest of you to continue to post here.
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Hilarious. I show how only bad science makes unsubstantiated claims that CO2 has endangered any species, TJ and Bobbo got nothing but insults and the TJ makes empty claims I was boxed in. ROTFLMAO A legend in his own mind.

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Re: The Coral Bleaching Debate

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:32 am

JIm Steele wrote:[quote="JTJ and Bobbo got nothing but insults and the TJ makes empty claims I was boxed in.
Yes, sadly Jim... you get insulted when reference is made to the Consensus of Qualified Scientists taking NO STOCK of your position........ and that claiming any minority position is by definition the right one. Instead of being insulted by the truth, you should "objectively" evaluate your position. Just like God might exist...... you might be right...... but your arguments are invalid. Shirley if your position is correct.... you would have valid arguments to propose? But you don't. Again.... sorry if you are insulted by this.

I CHALLENGE YOU: Pick your best evidence that co2 is not warming the earth, or hasn't been proven to, or that some other agent is at work (ie...no demand you prove a negative).

My best evidence: consensus of qualified scientist, 100% lack of opposition or alternative theory/statement by any scientific organization, small scale DEMONSTRATIONS that co2 gas warms a gas mixture exposed to sunlight, other planets with different amounts of co2 correlate highly, ...................... and your favorite and mine: sea level keeps on rising.

Make us proud.

Quck EDIT: as so often stated, there can be NO proof of most issues in climate science as there is no Earth wide system to run comparative experiments on. In this context, "proof" means "the best explanation of"
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Re: The Coral Bleaching Debate

Post by Jim Steele » Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:49 am

Bobbo you try to divert the issues in this thread. No organism has been killed by rising CO2. Where a population is threatened, the evidence supporting other factors other than CO2 is overwhelming. You were given a challenge to show a species that was killed, endangered, or extirpated by CO2. You have failed to do so! Yet claim we all gonna die. No evidence and no reason to believe a word you say. You are just tying to scare people and prey on the lowliest.

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Re: The Coral Bleaching Debate

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:42 am

Thats your best photo so far.

.................... excellent job.
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Re: The Coral Bleaching Debate

Post by TJrandom » Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:25 pm

OK, so Jim has a point - I did indeed `reopen` this thread after Jim chased me on other threads, imploring me to return. And, I am truly sorry that I did, as Jim has been quite evasive - refusing to define the terms he uses in a rather bold claim, and wasting my time tring to pry it out of him.

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Re: The Coral Bleaching Debate

Post by Jim Steele » Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:13 pm

TJrandom wrote: I am truly sorry that I did, as Jim has been quite evasive -
ROTFLMAO You asked to discuss coral, in a thread where we promised to be professional and not engage in personal attacks. I replied with an extensive well documented essay that you have refused to discuss. Instead you tried to deflect the issue and launched personal attacks.

I am truly sad that I trusted you to be the one alarmist capable of an honest discussion


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Re: The Coral Bleaching Debate

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:03 pm

I made a quick review of this thread starting at page 4.

In my view, the discussion mostly fails from JS's failure to define, or failure to maintain a constant definition or use of, several terms. Harm and coral in the main. In the main: "coral" as the large family of 1000's of species will probably always be with us. So...when 100's of miles of cold water corals SPECIES are killed by ocean warming....JS ignores it and says there is no proof of harm.

And there isn't.....according to the definition that JS mostly uses. ........... and then the same kind of obstinate use of the concept of "proof."

By style and substance: no connection between the science denying community and those looking for the best evidence, conclusions, and social policy.
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Re: The Coral Bleaching Debate

Post by Jim Steele » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:21 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: So...when 100's of miles of cold water corals SPECIES are killed by ocean warming....JS ignores it and says there is no proof of harm.
ROTFLMAO Again no SPECIES of coral have been killed by rising CO2. You can not name a single one. So indeed I ignore your empty accusations that go on ad nauseum and your attempts to re-direct a discussion about coral resiliency.

The essay had discussed "harm" caused by all the other factors as even TJ admits. The essay shows bleaching is not only a minor factor but coral are totally resilient just like terrestrial plants fully recovering from a fire, thus you must define natural variability, as the essay illustrates. But you and TJ dishonestly represent everything presented in the essay that all can see. Your dishonest accusations is just more typical BS from alarmists who deny the facts and try to sell gloom and doom. In my view bobbo failed to read the essay from the beginning or failed to understand the science!

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Re: The Coral Bleaching Debate

Post by TJrandom » Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:47 pm

JIm Steele wrote:
TJrandom wrote: I am truly sorry that I did, as Jim has been quite evasive -
ROTFLMAO You asked to discuss coral, in a thread where we promised to be professional and not engage in personal attacks. I replied with an extensive well documented essay that you have refused to discuss. Instead you tried to deflect the issue and launched personal attacks.

I am truly sad that I trusted you to be the one alarmist capable of an honest discussion


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Jim has a reading comprehension problem. He thinks I asked to discuss coral - while I actually just suggested coral as having been harmed by climate change - when he stated that no species has been harmed by climate change whether caused by man or natural.

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Re: The Coral Bleaching Debate

Post by Jim Steele » Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:49 pm

TJrandom wrote: Jim has a reading comprehension problem. He thinks I asked to discuss coral - while I actually just suggested coral as having been harmed by climate change - when he stated that no species has been harmed by climate change whether caused by man or natural.
Well TJ your dishonesty is becoming more and more transparent and your penchant for personal attacks versus sincere discussion are no longer in doubt!

In the crackdown on denier frauds thread, I said "... Name a species and we can discuss it sincerely. I never laugh at sincere efforts to engage in serious scientific discourse."
JIm Steele later replied to the article TJ linked to
TJ

I read the article but could not access that actual research paper. I am requesting it via my University LIbrary. Once have peruse the paper I will start a thread on coral bleaching.

This thread is getting quite toxic and no one willing to sincerely debate.
A few weeks later I posted a purely scientific article about coral. But TJ never responded. He once or twice posted on the climate forum claiming he had been too busy to reply. However he was actively posting in other forums about diverse topics like aliens and anal probing. Perhaps his memory was erased after such probing.

TJ's post clearly shows he requested discussing "Coral" And now in his most recent posts he clearly rillustrates his dishonesty and total lack of integrity

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Re: The Coral Bleaching Debate

Post by TJrandom » Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:56 pm

Yes Jim - Coral as in a species which may have been harmed by climate change - in response to your claim that no species has been harmed by climate change whether caused by man or natural. Hence the need to understand what you mean by `harm` - which is where you dug in and refused to answer the question.

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Re: The Coral Bleaching Debate

Post by Jim Steele » Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:18 pm

Bull crap! You now try to divert attention from your lies above. You have never discussed coral. In good faith I presented discussions and several illustrations of coral science

I showed storms cause the most harm, but coral always return. TJ avoided any discussion but diverted attention to the disappearance of marooned rats ROTFLMAO

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I showed how coral are reduced from storms, starfish and bleaching but still return to natural levels of abundance. I say we need to define natural varability but TJ diverts inanely asking "what about harm". Who has a reading comprehension problem??

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TJs lies and fabrication do not deserve replies anything more than theatrics.

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Re: The Coral Bleaching Debate

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:55 am

From page 4:
"But a quick google for anyone who does care: "A fifth of the Great Barrier Reef’s corals are dead after the worst bleaching event on record. "

"Current trends in ocean temperature and future predictions suggest bleaching will occur each year within the coming decades. Some reefs around the world have just experienced consecutive years of bleaching, with barely any opportunity for colonies, let alone reefs, to recover."

http://theconversation.com/will-the-gre ... hing-67063"
......................fugit. I'll just go to the punchline: you say there is no harm to corals and with the link above you change it to no species have been killed......I think meaning driven into extinction?

.....................but that doesn't work either for as a species is driven to extinction...say like the rats on that island, then JS's response is: there werent that many of them and "maybe" something else happened.

"The species was found only on Bramble Cay, a small vegetated coral cay in the Torres Strait. The species shared its home with sea turtles, shore birds, and a single lighthouse, the only artificial structure. In 1978, hundreds of Bramble Cay melomys were thought to have lived on Bramble Cay, foraging at night and burrowing through logs and debris. Numbers declined rapidly in the 1990s and 2000s, directly correlated with rising sea levels. In just ten years, 97% of their habitat was completely wiped out. In the last month, this native rodent, the only mammal endemic to the Great Barrier Reef, has been confirmed to be extinct. Not only that, it is the first mammal confirmed to be driven to extinction due to climate change." http://wildmelbourne.org/articles/our-f ... lomys///// Uggg...I have to say in my view there is no proof....only correlation. Same as always was, and always will be.
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Re: The Coral Bleaching Debate

Post by Jim Steele » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:07 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:..........fugit. I'll just go to the punchline: you say there is no harm to corals and with the link above you change it to no species have been killed......I think meaning driven into extinction?
The link above is t your own quote, not mine. Again you are hallucinating!

Furthermore my argument has always been: No species has been extirpated or endangered by CO2!

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Re: The Coral Bleaching Debate

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:08 am

OK.... much like co2.......you aren't sensitive to the danger.
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Re: The Coral Bleaching Debate

Post by Jim Steele » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:44 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:OK.... much like co2.......you aren't sensitive to the danger.
What danger! Look at the % of greening across the globe.Plus no species has been extirpated or endangered by CO2. Greening provides more food. Why do argue the opposite is happening. In the face of evidence, paranoid hallucinations must be considered.

https://phys.org/news/2013-07-greening-co2.html

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Re: The Coral Bleaching Debate

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:17 am

"Look at the greening" makes as much sense as "humans breathe out co2" or "how come there are still monkeys?"

You have worse than nothing ...... and think its valid?

BWEHAHAHAHAHAHAH. ONLY pictures please. cut and paste "activity time" stuff at the home.
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Re: The Coral Bleaching Debate

Post by Jim Steele » Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:46 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:"Look at the greening" makes as much sense as "humans breathe out co2" or "how come there are still monkeys?"

You have worse than nothing ...... and think its valid?

ROTFLMAO Bobbo thinks he knows more than the scientists.


Bobbo never states why greening is not a valid measure other than "people eat seeds" ROTFLMAO This is why guys like Trump wnat to shut down "stupid poiiticized science"

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Re: The Coral Bleaching Debate

Post by TJrandom » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:46 am

Erm – two wildly different statements. If you meant the former, why didn`t you say so when I joined the discussion?

JIm Steele wrote: ... Furthermore my argument has always been: No species has been extirpated or endangered by CO2!
Versus….
TJrandom wrote:
JIm Steele wrote: ... Polar bears, penguins, butterflies, pika, amphibians, bees etc are not being harmed by climate change whether you think its natural or man made. Some are being hurt by habitat destruction and invasive species and disease, but not climate change and that is easily proven.

Name a species and we can discuss it sincerely. I never laugh at sincere efforts to engage in serious scientific discourse.
JIm, I believe this is the starting point. Your assertion that not one species is being harmed by climate change (whether natural or man made) and a challenge to name a species that is, with my reply that coral fits the bill.

From the Crackdown (One Word) on Denier Frauds thread.
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=26817&start=80#p558885

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Re: The Coral Bleaching Debate

Post by TJrandom » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:54 am

JIm Steele wrote:Bull crap! You now try to divert attention from your lies above. You have never discussed coral. In good faith I presented discussions and several illustrations of coral science ...
There was no need for me to discuss coral. When I joined this thread, there was already enough here to show that your assertion was most probably false. I asked you to clarify and then you went all defensive, diverting attention and hiding behind selfies.

I am not just now trying to divert attention. I asked you to clarify in my first posts when I joined this thread. If you think that I lied - please do provide the quoted evidence of that.

Jim, you are a waste of time - of my time.

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Re: The Coral Bleaching Debate

Post by Jim Steele » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:33 am

TJrandom wrote:Erm – two wildly different statements. If you meant the former, why didn`t you say so when I joined the discussion?
You are truly twisted taking everything out of context.Pushing crap to cover your nonstop dishonesty. The context of my reply was
How dangerous is the warming, and why ? What is the evidence?

I became a skeptic after perusing peer reviewed papers and finding they were fraught with errors and hyperbole suggesting animals and plants were in the verge of extinction due to global warming.

I have posted critiques of those claims and requested official retractions, but unlike other disciplines that are cracking down such bad science, the climate change community has circled the wagons and ignored blatant problems. Polar bears, penguins, butterflies, pika, amphibians, bees etc are not being harmed by climate change whether you think its natural or man made. Some are being hurt by habitat destruction and invasive species and disease, but not climate change and that is easily proven.

Name a species and we can discuss it sincerely. I never laugh at sincere efforts to engage in serious scientific discourse.
You asked to discuss coral and haved dodged it ever since with stupid word play with crap like "There was no need for me to discuss coral. "

ROTFLMAO You say Im a waste time. But you keep coming back trying to twist things to deflect your dishonesty. ROTFLMAO

I will not reply to such dishonesty again

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Re: The Coral Bleaching Debate

Post by TJrandom » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:42 am

JIm Steele wrote:... I will not reply to such dishonesty again
Yes, run along now Jim, and please do keep up the work of deniers - twisting, twisting, twisting - diverting attention from your failings, misrepresenting what others say, running away from a request to clarify your meaning when asked, etc., etc. You do deniers proud.

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Re: The Coral Bleaching Debate

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:13 am

JIm Steele wrote:
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:"Look at the greening" makes as much sense as "humans breathe out co2" or "how come there are still monkeys?"

You have worse than nothing ...... and think its valid?

ROTFLMAO Bobbo thinks he knows more than the scientists.


Bobbo never states why greening is not a valid measure other than "people eat seeds" ROTFLMAO This is why guys like Trump wnat to shut down "stupid poiiticized science"
Ha, ha....... well, your twisting has totally PO'd TJ. Too bad.... more than many here, he reads the material/links/provides his own.

What I first said was that plants may grown more green....more leaves and bulk and what not BUT THE FOOD CROPS HUMANS RELY ON ARE THEREBY NEGATIVELY AFFECTED.... because the growth goes to the green and diminishes the productivity of the food grain. You should know this already, much less me having to post it twice now. You do more than misquote and twist.... you actually claim people say the very opposite of what they do. Gee...same thing you do with the few links you provided as a novelty. You quote the "Headlines" and fail to mention the body of the work with all the exceptions and caveats.

Merchants of Doubt..... freelance?...hobby???? Working up to a paid position??????????
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Re: The Coral Bleaching Debate

Post by Jim Steele » Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:04 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:. well, your twisting has totally PO'd TJ. Too bad.... more than many here, he reads the material/links/provides his own.

What I first said was that plants may grown more green....more leaves and bulk and what not BUT THE FOOD CROPS HUMANS RELY ON ARE THEREBY NEGATIVELY AFFECTED.... ?
You are wrong about TJ and crops. TJ was worthless and dishonest. Doesnt matter if reads a post or the links, or not, He is incapable of being honest or sincere. Totally worthless and not to be trusted.

And here's a graph with all those negative effects on seeds, that have noting to do with coral as you divert again. And again you fail botany class

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Re: The Coral Bleaching Debate

Post by TJrandom » Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:00 am

JIm Steele wrote:... TJ was worthless and dishonest.
Dishonest? Where Jim? Worthless? It is you who failed to define harm - even as you use the word.