Do record lows mean global cooling?

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Re: Do record lows mean global cooling?

Post by robinson » Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:22 pm

OutOfBreath wrote:Do any of these wiseguys have a clue about the difference between local temperature variations and global temperature? It seems to be the only point they have. "How can it be global warming when it is freezing right here right now?" :roll:

"How can it be a drought when it is flooding right here right now?"

It's like claiming global warming is causing less rain, because California had a drought. (or Texas, or Oklahoma), when the global data shows more rain. Using a local condition to say something about global change is idiotic.

Or, claiming there is no drought because there is actually more rain "globally" is idiotic. Or something. It's all so unscientific it's just madness.
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Re: Do record lows mean global cooling?

Post by OutOfBreath » Sun Jun 26, 2016 9:57 am

That comeback took you 10 weeks? You must really be spoiling for a fight.

You are just emphasizing your ignorance here, showcasing that you have no idea how data is used for science (Hint: specific locations do not alone tell us about global, but knowing global does allow predictions for specific locations).

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Re: Do record lows mean global cooling?

Post by Jim Steele » Sun Jun 26, 2016 6:59 pm

OutOfBreath wrote: You are just emphasizing your ignorance here, showcasing that you have no idea how data is used for science (Hint: specific locations do not alone tell us about global, but knowing global does allow predictions for specific locations).
Wrong wrong wrong! Its your ignorance on display!

Averaging together all the specific locations of the world is what creates a global average, BUT the average does NOT tell us why those locations behaved as they did. For example warm Arctic air is due to heat ventilating from the warmer deeper layers and well as winds blowing from the south. Has nothing to do with global CO2. In the 80s and 90s before the Arctic OScillation removed thick insulating ice, Arctic air temperatures were declining despite a rising global average. Most of California's max temp was declining since the 30s and most of Antarctica showed no warming for the past 5 decades.

Global average temperature has dropped .3 C in the last 3 to 4 months! Does that mean global cooling or that CO2 is diminishing globally. Please explain this rapid cooling without referring to any specific location. OMG I dont think earth's organisms have ever experienced such rapid global climate change: 0.3 C in just a few months. That trend translates into a 100 C drop over the next century. We must all gonna die..ROTFLMAO

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Re: Do record lows mean global cooling?

Post by OutOfBreath » Sun Jun 26, 2016 10:47 pm

My comment was aimed at robinson, but thank you for showing the same ignorance of the use of data and throwing doubt on your general grasp of statistics as well.

I wont waste more time in here. Bobbo's probably around for some exchange of hyperbole. Just thought I'd comment the belated quote of one of my earlier posts.

Hakuna matata to you both.

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Re: Do record lows mean global cooling?

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Jun 26, 2016 10:55 pm

Nope....I'm out. As fascinating as the subject is, when the opportunity is presented to sharpen their argument they either mindlessly repeat a prior negated argument or ROTFAL. Total failures that the subject itself cannot save.

Meanwhile....the evidence continually mounts the disaster event horizon is coming closer while the solutions for it do as well. Its the lag time and what can be done that interests me. NOT whether or not its true, or a good thing to happen or not.

Silly hoomans.
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Re: Do record lows mean global cooling?

Post by Jim Steele » Mon Jun 27, 2016 3:44 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Nope....I'm out.
Your threats/promises to be "out" keep enthralling me with hope that this forum will be rid your ridiculous incessant rantings. But sadly you keep coming back "in" to make useless comments.
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Re: Do record lows mean global cooling?

Post by robinson » Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:15 pm

He was out a long time ago
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Re: Do record lows mean global cooling?

Post by Jim Steele » Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:18 am

The Algerian town of Ain Sefra, deep in the dry, hot Sahara desert was hit by a freak snowfall on December 19. It's the first time snow has fallen in the region in 37 years.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/21/travel/sa ... index.html

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Re: Do record lows mean global cooling?

Post by OutOfBreath » Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:53 am

Cold weather in a usually warm place?
Global climate change disproved! :roll: :roll:

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Re: Do record lows mean global cooling?

Post by Jim Steele » Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:29 pm

According to NWS Los Angeles, record low temperature of -8.8 °C (16 °F) was set at Lancaster Airport on Sunday morning, December 18, breaking the previous record of -8.3 °C (17 °F) set in 1995.

At Santa Maria Airport, a record low temperature of -2.7 °C (27 °F) was set on the same day, breaking the previous record of -2.2 °C (28 °F) degrees set in 1928.
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Re: Do record lows mean global cooling?

Post by OutOfBreath » Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:06 pm

Do go on, Captain Anecdote.

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Re: Do record lows mean global cooling?

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:16 pm

"Re: Do record lows mean global cooling?" /// I haven't checked, but I assume someone directly answered: "No."????

so.......we've got record colds. also in the news once a week are reports of RECORD WARMS.

Ever add them up?

And yes.............sea level constantly rising is a good substitute if you don't believe in average temperatures or want to blame a polar heat transfer mechanism.


Ha, ha.........JS==you also have never answered if you have ever received any money from Fossil Fuels. I assume you just just lie about it..... but it makes a record.

............so.........how much for your tireless if not rather illogical efforts?
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Re: Do record lows mean global cooling?

Post by Jim Steele » Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:54 pm

The real question is which anecdotes reveal the true climate dynamics?

Recent warm spikes in the Arctic that are still 20 degrees below freezing? Or cooling in Antarctic waters? A picture of a skinny polar bear or a fat one? A heatwave or a cold snap? Rising sea level due to groundwater extraction and relaxed gyre spin? Ranting conspiracy nuts who dont understand science? An El Nino warm spike? Warming since the LIttle Ice Age? Raw temperature data or homogenized and fabricated data?

All that the rare Saharan snow reveals is the failure of climate scientists' prediction "our children will not know what snow is". Yet their acolytes will defend them no matter how many contradictions and failures. Those uneducated acolytes fail to understand and even deny the importance of heat transport that explains all the anecdotal evidence.

Bobbo you also failed to tell us if your lobotomy was successful?
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Re: Do record lows mean global cooling?

Post by Jim Steele » Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:01 pm

I repeat a post from a previous thread, revealing why any who has not had a lobotomy needs to question recent "trends" resulting from homogenized data that removed warm blips in the past.

Below is an example of minimum temperature adjustments by the US HIstorical Network for Mt Shasta station. There are hundreds of US stations that recorded a similar temperature peak in the 30s and 40s, only to have the data homogenized and fabricating lower past temperatures.

Image

Also realize the USA data sets are the best/densest in the world. Most of the global data set is estimated/fabricated for any temperatures before 1950.

Only blind believers would fail to question the undisputed truth that climate scientists pushing CO2 warming discussed how to alter the data to get rid of the Medieval Warm Period and the warming "blips of the 30s and 40s. Here is an email from Tom Wrigley to Phil Jones and Ben Santer
"Phil, Here are some speculations on correcting SSTs to partly explain the 1940s warming blip. If you look at the attached plot you will see that the land also shows the 1940s blip (as I'm sure you know). So, if we could reduce the ocean blip by, say, 0.15 degC, then this would be significant for the global mean -- but we'd still have to explain the land blip.

I've chosen 0.15 here deliberately. This still leaves an ocean blip, and i think one needs to have some form of ocean blip to explain the land blip (via either some common forcing, or ocean forcing land, or vice versa, or all of these). When you look at other blips, the land blips are 1.5 to 2 times (roughly) the ocean blips -- higher sensitivity plus thermal inertia effects. My 0.15 adjustment leaves things consistent with this, so you can see where I am coming from. Removing ENSO does not affect this. It would be good to remove at least part of the 1940s blip, but we are still left with "why the blip".
Mt Shasta is just one of hundreds of examples of these so-called scientists removing inconvenient warm blips as discussed.
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Re: Do record lows mean global cooling?

Post by OutOfBreath » Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:17 am

So, blahblahblah about how there is NO knowledge, something about choosing the right anecdotes for science (:facepalm:), and some griping about adjustments of temperature records?

Still showing no comprehension of science, data gathering, modelling and handling big data sets. Still going on with "gotchas" which might work with the clueless.

Here, learn something about temparature adjustments:
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... o-pristine
(They're doing what they're supposed to, which is eliminating heat island effects, changes to location and instruments. You know, the stuff you types have been complaining about.)

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Re: Do record lows mean global cooling?

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:32 am

Here's an anecdote I thought about watching a show on "Underground Mars" about how the notion was to terraform the planet by introducing green house gases to warm mars up. How come green house gases would warm Mars up but have the opposite effect on Earth?

You know: SCIENCE form an entire cloth...not to be denied by pulling threads at the edges.

Steele: you post as if some claimed inconsistency destroys entire fields of interconnected WORKING scientific fact...whereas at the best case for you, all they do is present some factoid that needs to be explained.

Sucks to be you................. and stop lying.
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Re: Do record lows mean global cooling?

Post by Jim Steele » Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:05 pm

I spent my professional career studying the effects of regional climate change on wildlife and promoting restoration. I understand all the complexities more than most. Hilariously Bobbo and Dan have no science background and accordingly are clueless, but try to paint a science as anti-science. ROTFLMAO THose guys are guided simply by their belief, or hope, we are all gonna die and so grab on to whatever supports their twisted paranoia.

When you blindly accept alteration of data and excuse the undeniable efforts of key climate scientists to obscure the oscillating nature of temperature change, you reveal your silly faith and lack of critical thinking skills. If you truly examined the adjustments, station by station, you would find that more often than not rural stations showing oscillating temperatures were adjusted to match the warming trend at stations tainted urban heat. You would see tree ring data in natural habitat showing no such warming trend comparable to urban warming and manufactured global trend. You can blindly believe the spin from a Guardian article, but it is clear for us who have studied these things for decades that you two are clueless and incapable of critical examination.

So tell me Dan, In Wrigley's email where did he say we have to adjust for UHI? Why was their focus just on getting rid of the warm blip that shows up in most temperature data around the USA and the world, a blip that shows up in tree rings, ocean data, and ice cores? Was their efforts to get rid of the warm blip in ocean temperatures an attempt to get rid of urban heat effects?? Really?? ROTFLMAO You cant seriously believe the Guadian's lame spin when by their own words those AGW proponent's intent is staring you in the face.

Here is the quality controlled data for the USA, showing how temperatures oscillate, why should we not believe that graph?. INstead you need to, or want to believe a totally fabricated data graph that has removed natural warming "blips". How can you be so clueless???

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Re: Do record lows mean global cooling?

Post by Jim Steele » Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:26 pm

[quote="OutOfBreath"
Here, learn something about temparature adjustments:
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... o-pristine
(They're doing what they're supposed to, which is eliminating heat island effects, changes to location and instruments. You know, the stuff you types have been complaining about.)[/quote]

ROTFLMAO outabreath You exemplify the ridiculously mindless cherry-picking of the climate catastrophe faithful.

The Guardian cites an analysis by Zeke Hausfater showing that temperature adjustments from 2004 to now are in accord with the Climate Reference Network data. I agree with such results. But the issue remains regards the adjustments that eliminated the warming blips of the 30s and 40s. It is beyond stupid to argue, temperature data agreement since 2004 proves adjustments to earlier data were justified eventhough all data bases showed a awrm blip.

Paranoid alarmists like to deny the warming pause. But the article you cite and the Climate Reference Network all show an undeniable warming pause (even a slight cooling?) that skeptics have highlighted. So I must conclude Dan based on your reference, that you too believe in a 16 year warming pause. Thanks Dan!

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Re: Do record lows mean global cooling?

Post by OutOfBreath » Sat Dec 24, 2016 9:39 am

Went right over your head didn't it? The point is that the adjustments match the network of "unsoiled" sites perfectly. Meaning the adjustments are probably correct in general for the timeperiod. So quit your bitching about the adjustments already.

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Re: Do record lows mean global cooling?

Post by Jim Steele » Sat Dec 24, 2016 3:52 pm

OutOfBreath wrote:Went right over your head didn't it? The point is that the adjustments match the network of "unsoiled" sites perfectly. Meaning the adjustments are probably correct in general for the time period. So quit your bitching about the adjustments already.
Over my head? ROTFLMAO It seems you are the only one misunderstanding the science once again. You are in complete denial!

You really dont observe very well either if you think the small segment of close alignment between 2004 and now explains the hefty adjustments from 1900 to 2004. First look at the Mt Shasta data posted earlier. Did you see that it is not the post 2004 adjustments in question? Or did you close your eyes. Are you so blind that you fail to see it was the adjustments to earlier times totally distorting the climate trends. You desperately embrace te Guardian's bogus analysis. Why are you so easily fooled?

Here's some more graphic examples, again illustrating the hundreds of similar station adjustments that altered the observed climate trends. Either get a new pair of glasses or a new brain and then try to apply some honest critical thinking. If honestly done, you too would "bitch" about the adjustments because indeed the adjustments did just what they conspired to do, wipe out the warm blips of the 30s and 40s because they contradict CO2 warming hype,

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Re: Do record lows mean global cooling?

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Dec 24, 2016 11:27 pm

Once again, as always, its not "me" but 97% of actual climate scientists, not related but no where near studies like localized animal movements, AND 100% of formal positions taken by scientific groups. Once again, as always, Jim Steele treats his minority science denying aberrant non-nonsensical position as if it were the reasonable one.

Are you going deeper into your stupid hole JS? You appear to be now denying that Earth is warming at all. You say the warming has "stopped." Any explanation for that? Theory? PREDICTIONS?

Last year your position was co2 was a green house gas that WAS WARMING THE WORLD.... just not as fast as anyone had predicted. Still wrong but atleast having some science grounding.......... now......... hard to tell. Alcohol, drugs?===>Money????? What could be the source of Jimbo ignoring the constant rise of the Oceans????

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Re: Do record lows mean global cooling?

Post by Jim Steele » Sun Dec 25, 2016 1:14 am

ROTFLAMO

Bobbo, Your ridiculous verbal diarrhea is always a worthless diversion trying to cover up the stench of dishonest data adjustments that only a fool would accept.
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Re: Do record lows mean global cooling?

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Dec 25, 2016 1:10 pm

JS: I affirm everything you just posted...... as to the effect of accepted SCIENCE on your posts to this forum.

Ha, ha. You do stumble on the truth now and then: just look.

Some good techniques to notice: NEVER answer a direct question or controverting FACTS. Sprinkle the BS with Humor.... and see what knuckle draggers you can convince to your position. And NEVER consider: what if I'm wrong.

Its Xmas. time to wish all of mankind well...... but shouldn't we positively ACT to actually DO something that will reward or comfort our kiddies?............. as opposed to hosing them completely? I think so..
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Re: Do record lows mean global cooling?

Post by Paul Anthony » Sun Dec 25, 2016 4:50 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:

Its Xmas. time to wish all of mankind well...... but shouldn't we positively ACT to actually DO something that will reward or comfort our kiddies?............. as opposed to hosing them completely? I think so..
Absolutely! Let's show them we know the difference between real science and politicized BS by really analyzing the data - all the data - instead of accepting the one version being foisted upon us by government stooges...and you.
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Re: Do record lows mean global cooling?

Post by Jim Steele » Sun Dec 25, 2016 5:14 pm

December in USA getting colder. We are all gonna die Boobo!

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Re: Do record lows mean global cooling?

Post by OutOfBreath » Mon Dec 26, 2016 6:09 pm

Paul Anthony wrote:
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:

Its Xmas. time to wish all of mankind well...... but shouldn't we positively ACT to actually DO something that will reward or comfort our kiddies?............. as opposed to hosing them completely? I think so..
Absolutely! Let's show them we know the difference between real science and politicized BS by really analyzing the data - all the data - instead of accepting the one version being foisted upon us by government stooges...and you.
That's funny on many levels.

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Re: Do record lows mean global cooling?

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Dec 26, 2016 6:45 pm

Paul Anthony wrote:Absolutely! Let's show them we know the difference between real science and politicized BS by really analyzing the data - all the data - instead of accepting the one version being foisted upon us by government stooges...and you.
Ha, ha. I'm feeling good.........and not even drinking .......... yet. but when I do, I'll think of this post, this thread.

Yes..........how to tell which end of the stick the BS is on?......... "Odds Are" ....... its with 97% of qualified scientists and 100% of formal positions papers by formal societies??? Perhaps on "common sense" of the type like : "What happens when you increase the perecentage of green house gases in an atmosphere." Or, simple observation of global wide phenonmenon like SEA LEVEL?

Paul: I'd wash my hands thoroughly.
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Re: Do record lows mean global cooling?

Post by Jim Steele » Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:05 pm

Nassim Nicholas Taleb, author of the book "Black Swan" characterizes the mainstream media in a way that also characterizes those who push the bogus 97%. The so-called consensus by scientific societies was not arrived at by analyzing all the data but by a select group of administrators that pushed their society's stance. For example Sir Paul Nurse former preseident of the Royal Society is a molecular scientist investigating control of the cell cycle. He scarcely knows more about climate science than Boobo, but he helped create the Royal Societies position paper. Those position papers are scientifically meaningless but politically generated for the mainstream media that targets a certain segment of society as Taleb suggests
Basically the mainstream media is a presumptuous club for people with 1) a lack of understanding of complex systems, 2) a fear of diverging from the norm, 3) zero independent thought.
Its as if Taleb intimately knew our resident paranoid alarmists.
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Re: Do record lows mean global cooling?

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:18 pm

JS: when all the "politics" is going one way...... the reason other than "Its Science" ought to be fairly clear?

You know.... like the American Petroleum Institute, Funded if not actually a Part of Big Oil, held out for years before concluding it was fossil burning and co2. "The Politics" involved in such pro-oil entities is: NOT WANTING TO PULL A JAMES STEELE AND HAVE ZERO CREDIBILITY WITHIN THE SCIENTIFIC ESTABLISHMENT. So......... yeah ......... politics is involved.

Sucks to be you.
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Re: Do record lows mean global cooling?

Post by Jim Steele » Mon Dec 26, 2016 8:57 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:when all the "politics" is going one way...... the reason other than "Its Science" ought to be fairly clear?
ROTFLMAO. That's why the American people voted out all the promoters of climate pseudoscience and bogus politics.

Sadly Boobo's lobotomy certainly did not relieve him of his conspiracy delusions.
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Re: Do record lows mean global cooling?

Post by Paul Anthony » Mon Dec 26, 2016 11:36 pm

JIm Steele wrote:
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:when all the "politics" is going one way...... the reason other than "Its Science" ought to be fairly clear?
ROTFLMAO. That's why the American people voted out all the promoters of climate pseudoscience and bogus politics.

Sadly Boobo's lobotomy certainly did not relieve him of his conspiracy delusions.
There is a conspiracy. You can see it, I can see it and bobbo can see it. Unfortunately, Bobbo is looking through the wrong end of the telescope. ;)
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bobbo_the_Pragmatist
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Re: Do record lows mean global cooling?

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:30 am

Paulie: good parallel construction. Show the ability to see structure.

Do you have any core recognition that makes you distrust the majority view regarding AGW? Just curious. As opposed to Jim Steele, I hope/look forward to, anyone that can actually have a "ringing critique" rather than mindless mostly erroneous snipping at the edges.

Whats your explanation for why sea level keeps rising? Jim Steele refuses to answer..... maybe you can help?
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Jim Steele
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Re: Do record lows mean global cooling?

Post by Jim Steele » Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:02 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: I hope/look forward to, anyone that can actually have a "ringing critique" rather than mindless mostly erroneous snipping at the edges.

Whats your explanation for why sea level keeps rising? Jim Steele refuses to answer..... maybe you can help?
ROTFLMAO Boobo is the king of erroneous sniping at the edges. And your lobotomy must have deeply affected your memory and honesty centers because I have answered every legitimate concern you have ever raised. I just dont respond to your anal compulsive mindless repetition of the same questions over and over ad nauseum as if you think your simpleton irrelevant drivel refutes all the contradictory evidence you dismiss, or cant understand.

But hey you are not a scientist so such silliness is to be expected.
“In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual." Galileo

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
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Re: Do record lows mean global cooling?

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:32 am

.......and you respond "as if" you were an actual qualified scientist. You aren't.

Sucks to be you.......... fantasies and all............never able to actually answer direct questions.
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Jim Steele
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Re: Do record lows mean global cooling?

Post by Jim Steele » Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:45 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:.......and you respond "as if" you were an actual qualified scientist. You aren't.

Sucks to be you.......... fantasies and all............never able to actually answer direct questions.
Here's another example of your mindless anal compulsive reptition. You said the exact same thing in the other thread and still in denial

And your reply supports my statement "Boobo is the king of erroneous sniping at the edges"
“In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual." Galileo

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Lausten
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Re: Do record lows mean global cooling?

Post by Lausten » Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:15 am

Nice to know there are some things I can count on. Like Bobbo and Jim saying the exact same things, over and over. Jim putting up graphs that cover a single year for a single country, and Bobbo pointing out who didn't answer what.
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Lausten
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Re: Do record lows mean global cooling?

Post by Lausten » Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:18 am

robinson wrote:
OutOfBreath wrote:Do any of these wiseguys have a clue about the difference between local temperature variations and global temperature? It seems to be the only point they have. "How can it be global warming when it is freezing right here right now?" :roll:

"How can it be a drought when it is flooding right here right now?"

It's like claiming global warming is causing less rain, because California had a drought. (or Texas, or Oklahoma), when the global data shows more rain. Using a local condition to say something about global change is idiotic.

Or, claiming there is no drought because there is actually more rain "globally" is idiotic. Or something. It's all so unscientific it's just madness.
Of course it's ridiculous. Local conditions are purely local, they aren't part of the globe. No individual piece of data says anything about the the combined and normalized data. And no conclusions can be made about anything based on that global data. You can only talk about the whole thing all at once. That's the rule.
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Jim Steele
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Re: Do record lows mean global cooling?

Post by Jim Steele » Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:38 am

Lausten wrote: Local conditions are purely local, they aren't part of the globe.
Another Lausten-ism, "local conditions are not part of the globe." :D
Lausten wrote: You can only talk about the whole thing all at once. That's the rule.
Merry Christmas Lausten, you always make me smile. So by your rule both the inuit and the Hawaiian will both decide what to wear based on global temperature. Did you make that rule up by yourself?
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Jim Steele
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Re: Do record lows mean global cooling?

Post by Jim Steele » Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:42 am

Lausten wrote:Jim saying the exact same things, over and over..
I repeat out of kindness to the slow learners. But for you, I will need to repeat things even more since you don't think local conditions are part of the globe. :D
“In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual." Galileo

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Re: Do record lows mean global cooling?

Post by Paul Anthony » Wed Dec 28, 2016 5:04 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Paulie: good parallel construction. Show the ability to see structure.

Do you have any core recognition that makes you distrust the majority view regarding AGW? Just curious. As opposed to Jim Steele, I hope/look forward to, anyone that can actually have a "ringing critique" rather than mindless mostly erroneous snipping at the edges.

Whats your explanation for why sea level keeps rising? Jim Steele refuses to answer..... maybe you can help?
Here's your problem: For you, the issue is black or white. Either people believe CO2 and human activity is the cause or they are deniers.

I never denied climate change. I just don't buy the idea that the cause is clear. Yes, sea level is rising. It has before. It, like everything else about the climate, changes. Always has.
People who say ALWAYS and NEVER are usually wrong, part of the time.
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