Unheard of cold, alarm ringers still clinging to their lies

Heated discussions on a hot topic.
User avatar
Paul Anthony
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2783
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:23 pm
Custom Title: The other god
Location: The desert

Re: Unheard of cold, alarm ringers still clinging to their lies

Post by Paul Anthony » Sun Nov 20, 2016 7:00 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Put a dead toad in an old mayonnaise jar, twist the lid on, and you got a micro-climate.
I haven't taken the lid off yet, but I suspect your definition of climate stinks. ;)
People who say ALWAYS and NEVER are usually wrong, part of the time.
Science answers questions, Philosophy questions answers.
Make sense, not war.

User avatar
Jim Steele
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2787
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:42 am
Custom Title: A Proven Scientific Skeptic

Re: Unheard of cold, alarm ringers still clinging to their lies

Post by Jim Steele » Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:19 am

Put a bobbo in an old mayonnaise jar, twist the lid on, and you got a micro-climate.

Unfortunately he will still engage in the same irrelevant blather.
“In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual." Galileo

User avatar
Gord
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 35076
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:44 am
Custom Title: prostrate spurge
Location: Transcona

Re: Unheard of cold, alarm ringers still clinging to their lies

Post by Gord » Mon Nov 21, 2016 4:17 am

Paul Anthony wrote:"Climate is not global, it's regional". No, it's both...or either. Depends on what's being studied.
Sure. I was trying to keep it simple for them. In the scope of what's being discussed, climate change is the shifting from one climate zone type to another.

Also, the definition of climate involves a measurement of time, such as the 30-year period that keeps coming up during discussions of climate change, but other lengths of time can be used.
True, the climate is not the same all over the globe, but the climate in one region affects the climate in other regions. To believe otherwise, one would have to believe dual "climate controls" in cars actually make it warmer on one side of the car than on the other.
It does, but again, there's a time factor involved. As long as I keep the AC blowing on my side of the car, and as long as the other side of the car keeps heating up, there will be a temperature gradient.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE
Is Trump in jail yet?

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 19672
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: After being pimped comes-----

Re: Unheard of cold, alarm ringers still clinging to their lies

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:38 pm

JIm Steele wrote:Put a bobbo in an old mayonnaise jar, twist the lid on, and you got a micro-climate.

Unfortunately he will still engage in the same irrelevant blather.
I might be wrong, but the topic and position are hardly irrelevant.

I didn't mean to disrupt the smooth flow of idiotic manufactured misinformation by posting that Climate was Global.....I was rather only coming from the context of AGW. The G being Global. The IMPORT of GW is not in a vacuum the various zones and how they will be shifting and whatnot if "you believe the theory that green house gases heat things up" but rather the net effect of all the zones, aka=Global.

As demonstrated here by several well more than average informed people, too many people think, or are willing to try to get other less informed people to think that if its colder where they live then AGW isn't happening.

Foolish Hoomans. Its only the future of our species on Earth that is in play.
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
robinson
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1053
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 1:55 am
Custom Title: Sometimes 0 is real cool hand

Re: Unheard of cold, alarm ringers still clinging to their lies

Post by robinson » Mon Nov 21, 2016 2:20 pm

There is no global climate, that is idiotic. The estimated average global temperature anomaly is a scientific creation, but there is no such thing as global climate.
"If you tell people the truth, make them laugh. Otherwise they will kill you"
-- Oscar Wilde

User avatar
Gord
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 35076
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:44 am
Custom Title: prostrate spurge
Location: Transcona

Re: Unheard of cold, alarm ringers still clinging to their lies

Post by Gord » Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:59 am

robinson wrote:There is no global climate, that is idiotic. The estimated average global temperature anomaly is a scientific creation, but there is no such thing as global climate.
Global climate is a "scientific creation" just like any other definition created by examining the facts and coming up with a term to describe them. The idea of global climate can be used (for instance, by astronomers) to compare entire planets with one another. Since climate also has a time component in its definition, it can be used to compare the same planet to itself at different eras. ("Era" is, of course, another "scientific creation" created by examining the facts and coming up with a term to describe them.)

For instance, you could compare the global climates of Venus, Earth, Mars, Titan: http://www.astrobio.net/news-exclusive/ ... xoplanets/
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE
Is Trump in jail yet?

User avatar
robinson
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1053
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 1:55 am
Custom Title: Sometimes 0 is real cool hand

Re: Unheard of cold, alarm ringers still clinging to their lies

Post by robinson » Tue Nov 22, 2016 1:40 pm

Image
"If you tell people the truth, make them laugh. Otherwise they will kill you"
-- Oscar Wilde

User avatar
robinson
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1053
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 1:55 am
Custom Title: Sometimes 0 is real cool hand

Re: Unheard of cold, alarm ringers still clinging to their lies

Post by robinson » Tue Nov 22, 2016 1:41 pm

The -9.9 C for a twenty year trend is quite frankly completely against the current global warming theory.
"If you tell people the truth, make them laugh. Otherwise they will kill you"
-- Oscar Wilde

User avatar
robinson
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1053
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 1:55 am
Custom Title: Sometimes 0 is real cool hand

Re: Unheard of cold, alarm ringers still clinging to their lies

Post by robinson » Tue Nov 22, 2016 1:43 pm

CHICAGO COULD BE COLDER THIS WINTER THAN LAST, NOAA SAYS

http://abc7chicago.com/weather/chicago- ... s/1564902/

Since the trend is colder winters, it''s not a surprise really.
"If you tell people the truth, make them laugh. Otherwise they will kill you"
-- Oscar Wilde

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 19672
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: After being pimped comes-----

Re: Unheard of cold, alarm ringers still clinging to their lies

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Nov 22, 2016 4:38 pm

robinson wrote:The -9.9 C for a twenty year trend is quite frankly completely against the current global warming theory.
SECOND REQUEST: Please state what you think the "theory" of global warming is.

Hint; with every post, you assume predictions rather than the more general theory. It leaves you talking about localized short term weather rather than global climate.

You begin with ignorance and error...but continue only with intent to deceive.

After an initial year or so of doubting the MODELS of AGW because of their incomplete inclusion of important variables (eg water vapor), I searched for a way for the average consumer like you and me to understand this very complex subject. Its colder than ever here, its warmer than ever over there, ice cap is growing down south but shrinking up north.... how to get a grasp on the "average worldwide temperature"?

I have settled on average sea level. Here is one version of my Theory of Global Warming: as the Earth heats up.... the ice will melt ... the oceans will rise.

Your version is similar to claiming Cancer does not exist because some doctors misdiagnose it. See the difference?????

And here it is:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_level ... 0-2013.png

Image
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
Gord
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 35076
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:44 am
Custom Title: prostrate spurge
Location: Transcona

Re: Unheard of cold, alarm ringers still clinging to their lies

Post by Gord » Wed Nov 23, 2016 10:27 am

robinson wrote:The -9.9 C for a twenty year trend is quite frankly completely against the current global warming theory.
a) How do you get a "-9.9 C for a twenty year trend" from that image?
b) No, what you've posted it not "completely against the current global warming theory".
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE
Is Trump in jail yet?

User avatar
robinson
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1053
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 1:55 am
Custom Title: Sometimes 0 is real cool hand

Re: Unheard of cold, alarm ringers still clinging to their lies

Post by robinson » Wed Nov 23, 2016 1:00 pm

Image

You see the purple? That is where the trend is -9.9C

I know, science is hard.
"If you tell people the truth, make them laugh. Otherwise they will kill you"
-- Oscar Wilde

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 19672
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: After being pimped comes-----

Re: Unheard of cold, alarm ringers still clinging to their lies

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:06 pm

Purple? Probably a function of my politically driven non-skeptical alarmist truth filter but isn't that the same area that is belching increasing amounts of methane gas due to the Tundra heating up?

I do note your inability to deal with/understand/come to grips with/respond to/grasp/apply your skeptical skills to==>the chart of very steady increasing sea level.

That marks you an intentional merchant of doubt. You are going to suck socks in hell for that.
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

Ken Fabos
Poster
Posts: 93
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 7:54 pm

Re: Unheard of cold, alarm ringers still clinging to their lies

Post by Ken Fabos » Wed Nov 23, 2016 11:18 pm

The temperature map provided is so different - almost a complete inversion - from one from NASA/GISS that I have to wonder what source (not supplied) and why it should be counted as more accurately representing real world temperature changes than this -
Feb 1995 to 2014.png
Robinson, even with some regional periods that are cooler than long term average you haven't shown that it is outside the range of expected regional variability in an AGW world. Given global average temperatures as well as every other significant measure and indicator of climate change are consistent with a continuing warming trend, why should anyone believe you are revealing a fundamental flaw that shows mainstream climate science to be false?
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
robinson
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1053
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 1:55 am
Custom Title: Sometimes 0 is real cool hand

Re: Unheard of cold, alarm ringers still clinging to their lies

Post by robinson » Thu Nov 24, 2016 2:15 am

Ken Fabos wrote:The temperature map provided is so different - almost a complete inversion - from one from NASA/GISS that I have to wonder what source (not supplied)
It's the exact same GISS page you are using, there is only one of them.

Image
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
"If you tell people the truth, make them laugh. Otherwise they will kill you"
-- Oscar Wilde

User avatar
robinson
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1053
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 1:55 am
Custom Title: Sometimes 0 is real cool hand

Re: Unheard of cold, alarm ringers still clinging to their lies

Post by robinson » Thu Nov 24, 2016 2:19 am

Using a trend shows the change over time, which is what climate change is about.

The coldest months should be warming faster than other seasons (enhanced greenhouse warming, this is directly from the theory)

It doesn't mean we aren't changing the balance, it means what is happening is different than what the theory predicts should happen. Cohen (and now others) puts forth the hypothesis that it is a negative feedback from increasing snow in Siberia, which acts to cool the entire NH winters, and especially the eastern US and Eurasia. He says that exact thing in multiple papers.

If this is actually the case, the theory will eventually be changed. It's how science advances. Remember that he does not state there is no warming. In fact he believes the warming of the arctic is the cause of the much colder winters.
"If you tell people the truth, make them laugh. Otherwise they will kill you"
-- Oscar Wilde

User avatar
Gord
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 35076
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:44 am
Custom Title: prostrate spurge
Location: Transcona

Re: Unheard of cold, alarm ringers still clinging to their lies

Post by Gord » Thu Nov 24, 2016 12:55 pm

robinson wrote:Image

You see the purple? That is where the trend is -9.9C

I know, science is hard.
Are you aware that the purple does not cover the entire globe and therefore is not a "-9.9 C for a twenty year trend" which "is quite frankly completely against the current global warming theory"? Look, for instance, at the red, which (to state it in a way I hope you will understand) represents a "+11 C for a twenty year trend".

Try to remember, you're talking about global warming. You can't cherry-pick specific spots on the globe and claim an alleged local trend invalidates global warming theory. (Well, I mean you can, but you're not exactly being unbiased or looking at the evidence and reaching a valid conclusion that way.)

Still, you're quite right, science is hard. Harder for some than for others, obviously, but still hard.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE
Is Trump in jail yet?

User avatar
robinson
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1053
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 1:55 am
Custom Title: Sometimes 0 is real cool hand

Re: Unheard of cold, alarm ringers still clinging to their lies

Post by robinson » Thu Nov 24, 2016 2:14 pm

76-95 polar Feb trend GISS.png
55-74 polar Feb trend GISS.png
96-15 polar Feb trend GISS.png
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
"If you tell people the truth, make them laugh. Otherwise they will kill you"
-- Oscar Wilde

Ken Fabos
Poster
Posts: 93
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 7:54 pm

Re: Unheard of cold, alarm ringers still clinging to their lies

Post by Ken Fabos » Fri Nov 25, 2016 2:54 am

Robinson - Okay, I have a better idea of what these maps are showing. Of course trend maps based on whole years over the period you are highlighting still show a preponderance of warming -
image.png
What you have not shown is that the period Northern Hemisphere winters being coolder than long term average can be expected to persist so much that it will counter warming elsewhere and result in cessation of global warming - it hasn't so far. Nor that it is outside the range of expected variability. Nor that the warmer than regional long term averages for Februaries of the preceding two decades cannot recur. Certainly there uncertainty remaining about the details of how climate change will progress, especially at shorter time scales and by location - and more to learn about the way variability can play out; that appears to be widely acknowledged. What also hasn't been demonstrated is that the warnings in the various commissioned studies and reports governments and policy makers are expected to rely upon, about possible and likely outcomes of raising GHG levels, are unreasonable or not based in existing and emerging knowledge of climate and weather processes.

What is expected as a longer term global average changes should not be mistaken - whether in ignorance or as debater's "gotcha's" that have winning points rather than revealing best knowledge as intent- for firm and precise predictions at shorter time scales or locally or regionally. There are the differences between predictions across a range of possibilities, of varying likelihoods and hypothesised possible outcomes that range between best and worst cases, as well as between longer term averages and shorter term variations.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
Gord
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 35076
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:44 am
Custom Title: prostrate spurge
Location: Transcona

Re: Unheard of cold, alarm ringers still clinging to their lies

Post by Gord » Fri Nov 25, 2016 3:34 pm

Or, in other words:

Scientists: "The stairs go up."
Denier: "No, each stair is flat."
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE
Is Trump in jail yet?

User avatar
Paul Anthony
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2783
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:23 pm
Custom Title: The other god
Location: The desert

Re: Unheard of cold, alarm ringers still clinging to their lies

Post by Paul Anthony » Fri Nov 25, 2016 4:58 pm

Gord wrote:Or, in other words:

Scientists: "The stairs go up."
Denier: "No, each stair is flat."
And both are correct.
People who say ALWAYS and NEVER are usually wrong, part of the time.
Science answers questions, Philosophy questions answers.
Make sense, not war.

User avatar
robinson
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1053
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 1:55 am
Custom Title: Sometimes 0 is real cool hand

Re: Unheard of cold, alarm ringers still clinging to their lies

Post by robinson » Fri Nov 25, 2016 5:43 pm

One could also say the stairs go down, which is also correct. It's a meaningless statement that makes the morons feel better, but doesn't actually say anything of value.
"If you tell people the truth, make them laugh. Otherwise they will kill you"
-- Oscar Wilde

User avatar
Gord
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 35076
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:44 am
Custom Title: prostrate spurge
Location: Transcona

Re: Unheard of cold, alarm ringers still clinging to their lies

Post by Gord » Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:57 pm

Paul Anthony wrote:
Gord wrote:Or, in other words:

Scientists: "The stairs go up."
Denier: "No, each stair is flat."
And both are correct.
Except the denier denied the stairs go up. (Note the first word in his pretend sentence.)
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE
Is Trump in jail yet?

User avatar
Gord
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 35076
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:44 am
Custom Title: prostrate spurge
Location: Transcona

Re: Unheard of cold, alarm ringers still clinging to their lies

Post by Gord » Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:59 pm

robinson wrote:One could also say the stairs go down, which is also correct. It's a meaningless statement that makes the morons feel better, but doesn't actually say anything of value.
If you're looking at the stairs in the form of a direction to be taken -- for example, if you're at the bottom of them -- then they go up. The meaning is important and justified. It has nothing to do with making you feel better.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE
Is Trump in jail yet?

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 19672
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: After being pimped comes-----

Re: Unheard of cold, alarm ringers still clinging to their lies

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:57 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
robinson wrote:The -9.9 C for a twenty year trend is quite frankly completely against the current global warming theory.
SECOND REQUEST: Please state what you think the "theory" of global warming is.

Hint; with every post, you assume predictions rather than the more general theory. It leaves you talking about localized short term weather rather than global climate.

You begin with ignorance and error...but continue only with intent to deceive.

After an initial year or so of doubting the MODELS of AGW because of their incomplete inclusion of important variables (eg water vapor), I searched for a way for the average consumer like you and me to understand this very complex subject. Its colder than ever here, its warmer than ever over there, ice cap is growing down south but shrinking up north.... how to get a grasp on the "average worldwide temperature"?

I have settled on average sea level. Here is one version of my Theory of Global Warming: as the Earth heats up.... the ice will melt ... the oceans will rise.

Your version is similar to claiming Cancer does not exist because some doctors misdiagnose it. See the difference?????

And here it is:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_level ... 0-2013.png

Image
Now: the THIRD REQUEST.

Pro and Con...you are all ignoring the constant steady trend of sea level going up. So....whatever you think you are saying: its colder here, its warmer there, its short term here, a bit longer term there: IT ALL COMES OUT IN THE WASH.

Ha, ha.....or you could say as a denier on another forum does that on his island in the Caribbean "there has been no ocean rise at all in the 30 years I have been observing it." Ain't no talkin' sense to him either.
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
Jim Steele
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2787
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:42 am
Custom Title: A Proven Scientific Skeptic

Re: Unheard of cold, alarm ringers still clinging to their lies

Post by Jim Steele » Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:03 am

Bitter Cold Arctic Air Sets Dozens of Record Lows in the Midwest and Plains

https://weather.com/forecast/national/n ... ember-2016
“In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual." Galileo

User avatar
Jim Steele
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2787
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:42 am
Custom Title: A Proven Scientific Skeptic

Re: Unheard of cold, alarm ringers still clinging to their lies

Post by Jim Steele » Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:06 am

Image
“In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual." Galileo

Ken Fabos
Poster
Posts: 93
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 7:54 pm

Re: Unheard of cold, alarm ringers still clinging to their lies

Post by Ken Fabos » Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:23 am

If the record cold conditions shown above were the norm rather than the exception, enduring rather than shortlived and global rather than regional there might be some compelling point. They aren't. There isn't. (Wind chill? Why not temperature?) Some record minimums were broken - but not as many as maximums.


(Graphic shows Months with more maximums broken than minimums above the line, Months with more minimum records broken than maximums below the line. US only (Note, the world is more than the USA.)
image.jpeg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
Jim Steele
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2787
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:42 am
Custom Title: A Proven Scientific Skeptic

Re: Unheard of cold, alarm ringers still clinging to their lies

Post by Jim Steele » Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:11 pm

Ken your faith is based on an illusion. Published reports of record highs and lows are based on homogenized databases that lowered measured temperatures in the past. Below is an example of minimum temperature adjustments by the US HIstorical Network for Mt Shasta station. There are hundreds of US stations that recorded a similar temperature peak in the 30s and 40s, only to have the data homogenized and fabricating lower past temperatures.

Image

Also realize the USA data sets are the best/densest in the world. Most of the global data set is estimated/fabricated for any temperatures before 1950.

Only blind believers would fail to question the undisputed truth that climate scientists pushing CO2 warming discussed how to alter the data to get rid of the Medieval Warm Period and the warming "blips of the 30s and 40s. Here is an email from Tom Wrigley to Phil Jones and Ben Santer
"Phil, Here are some speculations on correcting SSTs to partly explain the 1940s warming blip. If you look at the attached plot you will see that the land also shows the 1940s blip (as I'm sure you know). So, if we could reduce the ocean blip by, say, 0.15 degC, then this would be significant for the global mean -- but we'd still have to explain the land blip.

I've chosen 0.15 here deliberately. This still leaves an ocean blip, and i think one needs to have some form of ocean blip to explain the land blip (via either some common forcing, or ocean forcing land, or vice versa, or all of these). When you look at other blips, the land blips are 1.5 to 2 times (roughly) the ocean blips -- higher sensitivity plus thermal inertia effects. My 0.15 adjustment leaves things consistent with this, so you can see where I am coming from. Removing ENSO does not affect this. It would be good to remove at least part of the 1940s blip, but we are still left with "why the blip".
Mt Shasta is just one of hundreds of examples of these so-called scientists removing inconvenient warm blips as discussed.
“In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual." Galileo

User avatar
Jim Steele
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2787
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:42 am
Custom Title: A Proven Scientific Skeptic

Re: Unheard of cold, alarm ringers still clinging to their lies

Post by Jim Steele » Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:27 am

Sunday's Record Lows

Sunday morning, daily record lows for Dec. 18 were toppled in the following cities across the Plains and Midwest (new record set is shown):

Iowa: Sioux City (-20 degrees)
Kansas: Garden City (-19 degrees); Dodge City (-16 degrees); Medicine Lodge (-11 degrees); Wichita (-10 degrees)
Nebraska: Valentine (-31 degrees); Grand Island (-15 degrees); Hastings (-13 degrees)
Oklahoma: Tulsa (3 degrees); Oklahoma City (4 degrees - tie)
South Dakota: Aberdeen (-37 degrees); Watertown (-37 degrees); Huron (-31 degrees); Sioux Falls (-27 degrees); Mobridge (-26 degrees - tie);
Mitchell (-24 degrees - tie)
Texas: Amarillo (-3 degrees - tie); Dalhart (-8 degrees); Abilene (10 degrees); Lubbock (4 degrees); Wichita Falls (8 degrees)
Wyoming: Riverton (-11 degrees), Lake Yellowstone (-23 degrees)

Only one other December day has been colder than the minus 16 degree reading observed Sunday morning in Dodge City, Kansas, since records began there in 1874. The low of minus 10 degrees in Wichita, Kansas, tied as the third coldest December low temperature in the city dating to 1888.

Huron, South Dakota, saw its coldest low temperature since Feb. 3, 1996 on Sunday morning. The minus 37 degree reading in Aberdeen, South Dakota, Sunday morning was accompanied by a wind chill of minus 58 degrees.

Saturday's Record Lows

Daily record lows for Dec. 17 were set late Saturday night in the following cities (new record set is shown):

Colorado: Pueblo (-19 degrees smashed previous record of -10 degrees); Denver (-15 degrees); Colorado Springs (-14 degrees)
Kansas: Goodland (-15 degrees); Garden City (-13 degrees smashed previous record of -1 degree); Hill City (-12 degrees); Dodge City (-8 degrees);
Russell (-7 degrees)
South Dakota: Aberdeen (-32 degrees smashed previous record of -24 degrees); Watertown (-29 degrees); Mobridge (-28 degrees); Rapid City (-23
degrees - tie)
Nebraska: Valentine (-27 degrees); Broken Bow (-18 degrees); North Platte (-17 degrees); Imperial (-14 degrees - tie); Grand Island (-13 degrees);
McCook (-13 degrees); Hasting (-11 degrees - tie)
New Mexico: Clayton (-5 degrees)
North Dakota: Bismarck (-31 degrees smashed the previous record of -27 degrees)
Texas: Amarillo (0 degrees); Dalhart (0 degrees); Abilene (16 degrees - tie)
“In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual." Galileo

psychiatry is a scam
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1699
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:23 am
Custom Title: eugenics never stopped

Re: Unheard of cold, alarm ringers still clinging to their lies

Post by psychiatry is a scam » Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:05 am

melting glaciers are the major undeniable fact .
temperatures in cities obviously mean nothing

real simple , so simple amazed its even discussed

User avatar
Jim Steele
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2787
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:42 am
Custom Title: A Proven Scientific Skeptic

Re: Unheard of cold, alarm ringers still clinging to their lies

Post by Jim Steele » Thu Dec 22, 2016 5:35 am

Psych you dont discuss what you dont understand.

Indeed melting glaciers are the undeniable evidence of natural climate change. Glacier National Park lost 80% of its ice before 1950. John MUir witnessed Glacier Bay's retreat in the 1800s. Kilamanjaro's glacier retreat due to sublimation as temperatures never exceeded freezing.

Image

Read http://landscapesandcycles.net/-vanishi ... tural.html
“In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual." Galileo

User avatar
robinson
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1053
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 1:55 am
Custom Title: Sometimes 0 is real cool hand

Re: Unheard of cold, alarm ringers still clinging to their lies

Post by robinson » Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:07 pm

test post

to see if there is pre-moderation in this topic
"If you tell people the truth, make them laugh. Otherwise they will kill you"
-- Oscar Wilde

User avatar
robinson
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1053
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 1:55 am
Custom Title: Sometimes 0 is real cool hand

Re: Unheard of cold, alarm ringers still clinging to their lies

Post by robinson » Sun Jan 08, 2017 3:13 pm

Boise Idaho had it's snow record crushed Thursday (along with record cold). Not the snow total for a the day, the snow record for any day, as far back as records go. Snow records all over have been set, as well as unheard of cold for many locations.

The extreme cold also produced lake effect snow in Texas, something unheard of.

http://www.nbcdfw.com/weather/video/Lak ... 89775.html
"If you tell people the truth, make them laugh. Otherwise they will kill you"
-- Oscar Wilde

User avatar
Pyrrho
Administrator
Posts: 9995
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:31 am

Re: Unheard of cold, alarm ringers still clinging to their lies

Post by Pyrrho » Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:16 pm

That's because Hell froze over when the Cubs won the World Series.
For any forum questions or concerns please e-mail skepticforum@gmail.com or send a PM.

The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

User avatar
robinson
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1053
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 1:55 am
Custom Title: Sometimes 0 is real cool hand

Re: Unheard of cold, alarm ringers still clinging to their lies

Post by robinson » Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:22 pm

Ha!
"If you tell people the truth, make them laugh. Otherwise they will kill you"
-- Oscar Wilde

User avatar
Paul Anthony
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2783
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:23 pm
Custom Title: The other god
Location: The desert

Re: Unheard of cold, alarm ringers still clinging to their lies

Post by Paul Anthony » Sun Jan 08, 2017 8:41 pm

http://climatechangereconsidered.org/

Let's hear from the other climate scientists for a change.
People who say ALWAYS and NEVER are usually wrong, part of the time.
Science answers questions, Philosophy questions answers.
Make sense, not war.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 19672
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: After being pimped comes-----

Re: Unheard of cold, alarm ringers still clinging to their lies

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:39 pm

Let's ride unicorns.
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
Paul Anthony
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2783
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:23 pm
Custom Title: The other god
Location: The desert

Re: Unheard of cold, alarm ringers still clinging to their lies

Post by Paul Anthony » Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:34 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Let's ride unicorns.
The favorite pets of people who believe global warming is man-made. STOP GLOBAL WARMING! SAVE THE UNICORNS!
People who say ALWAYS and NEVER are usually wrong, part of the time.
Science answers questions, Philosophy questions answers.
Make sense, not war.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 19672
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: After being pimped comes-----

Re: Unheard of cold, alarm ringers still clinging to their lies

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:36 pm

Paulie: you are oh so like the religiously convinced. Even though they reject all religions but their own.... the lack of consistent logic is never recognized.

On 99% of subjects: you follow the consensus of qualified scientists. On AGW..... you turn religious.

Just look.
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?