Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Post by Jim Steele » Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:20 am

Lance Kennedy wrote: Just pointing out that he was a man of his time and therefore prone to the superstitions of his time.
Hmmmmm. Lance can we also suggest that, you Lance, not being as astute and mentally agile as Galileo, that you are even more "prone to the superstitions of our time"

My quibble with Lance is he thinks he doesn't mistakes, only those he disagrees with do.

Indeed climate is changing but the causes are not as clear as people blindly accept due to the bias of our time, especially to those who have no science background. If you were aware of all the factors, then you would understand it is not I who suffers from "idiotic reasoning".

And matter how you cut it, the 97% is a myth if you consider ALL scientists surveyed.

The 2014 AMS survey viewed here https://goo.gl/5zJLpt

26.3% of the total scientists responded and 52% agreed the humans caused more than half of observed climate change.

Thus .26 X .52 =13.6 %.

Thus only 13. 6% of ALL scientists in 2014 agreed with CO2 meme NOT 97%!


In the 2016 AMS survey viewed here https://goo.gl/95UYFj

53.3% responded and of those only 67% agreed change was mostly human induced.

Thus .533 X.67 = 36% .

Thus in 2016 only 36% of ALL scientists agreed with CO2 meme NOT 97%!
“In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual." Galileo

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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Post by Lance Kennedy » Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:56 am

I said 97% of climate scientists. Not all scientists.

If I want an opinion on particle entanglement, I will ask a quantum physicist, not an anthropologist.

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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Post by Jim Steele » Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:34 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:I said 97% of climate scientists. Not all scientists.

If I want an opinion on particle entanglement, I will ask a quantum physicist, not an anthropologist.
Yes that would be a logical thing to do. But the alarmists have used that bad logic claiming 100% of the scientific organizations support the CO2 meme. Like the AMA. That is as worthless as saying the AMA supports string theory. Likewise for many of the other organizations that are paraded around, most of their members do not engage in climate scientists. It just shows how much it is all political theater

Furthermore you misunderstand, the AMS study surveyed people working in climate related fields. There only 13% and 36% of ALL those scientists working in that field agreed with the CO2 meme.

To understand "climate hypothesis entanglement" the truth is the AMS is the logical place to survey

The “American Meteorological Society has a membership of more than 13,000 weather, water, and climate scientists, professionals, researchers, educators, students, and enthusiasts.”

https://goo.gl/716553

The AMS publishes the journals:

Journal of Climate (JCLI)
Journal of Hydrometeorology (JHM)
Weather, Climate, and Society (WCAS)
Journal of the Atmospheric Sciences (JAS)
Journal of Applied Meteorology and Climatology (JAMC)
Journal of Physical Oceanography (JPO)
Monthly Weather Review (MWR)
Journal of Atmospheric and Oceanic Technology (JTECH)
Weather and Forecasting (WAF)


My quibble with you Lance, is this article presents observations and measurements showing that groundwater has not been adequately accounted for in water cycle and sea level budgets.

Your "reasoning" dismisses all that data and its inferences because you embrace the 97% myth and because Galileo made mistakes! Wow!

I strongly suspect Lance you are not a scientist.
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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Post by Lance Kennedy » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:03 pm

The 97% figure is not a myth.*

Galileo making mistakes is just to point out to you that quoting Galileo does not make you correct, in your signature. Logic and reasoning are merely tools in science. The basis of science is empiricism, not logic. Logic can be useful, or it can lead you right up the garden path, and for many people (including scientists), that has already happened. That includes you, Jim.

The key is always empirical data, not logic.

As to me being a scientist, my background is no secret. I have a science degree, though in biology (especially microbiology), not climatology. I am retired now, but my working life was as an industrial chemist, with a specialty in microbicides. As such, I have a good knowledge of science, and a respect for the scientific method, properly exercised. An excessive focus on logic and reasoning is not the proper use of the scientific method.

In climatology, the reason 97% of specialists agree is because the empirical data shows that to be correct. Not someone's idea of logic.

*The 97% figure comes from a peer reviewed study published in 2013 which reviewed 4014 scientific papers on global climate change, and found that 97.2% assumed humans had a causative role in global warming. That is strong enough evidence for me to quote 97%

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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Post by Jim Steele » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:09 pm

Lance claims, "As such, I have a good knowledge of science"
Wow! That's informative!

It would be nice to demonstrate Lance's scientific thinking skills other than claiming Galileo and Jim have made mistakes.

Lance says, "The key is always empirical data, not logic"
Duhhh?!?!

This article provides an immense amount of empirical data, yet your alarmist stance dismisses!
Lance says, "The 97% figure comes from a peer reviewed study published in 2013 which reviewed 4014 scientific papers on global climate change, and found that 97.2% assumed humans had a causative role in global warming. That is strong enough evidence for me to quote 97%"
*

Good scientists provide links to their claims, but Lance does not provide one. Hmmmm

The 97% claims has been debunked many times for their horribly bad methodologies. I suspect Lance provides no links to avoid having is "strong enough evidence" debunked as well.
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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Post by Lance Kennedy » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:30 am

Jim

The 97%, like any published figure, comes with an error factor. It is probably more accurately 95% to 100% of climate scientists. Possibly minus a few who are corrupt and accepted money from oil companies. Not unusual. Every group of people have a few who are corrupt.

The 2013 paper was published in Environmental Research Letters, and the lead author was John Cook, then of the University of Queensland, in Australia.

I am sure that the very well financed global warming denier organisation has managed to find someone to criticise this paper. However, I have little interest in corporate bias.

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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Post by Lausten » Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:14 am

Jim Steele wrote:
Lausten wrote:There's nothing in this report that says global warming isn't happening. And you're missing the latest.

http://environment.harvard.edu/news/fac ... stic-earth
It is gratifying Lausten that you are engaging in more critical thinking and investigating of the sea level issue.

The article you link to is a good one, but you need to elaborate on your concerns. You tend to "link and run" so there is no real debate nor any understanding of what you are getting snarky about.
Dang, I was worried you'd be gratified, the exact opposite of what I want.

I link and run because you aren't serious. You never have been. You give just enough to make it appear that you might be serious, but after two or three questions, you lose it and start rambling on about the mainstream media or something. Maybe I've got you confused with some other crank, but close enough.
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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Post by Jim Steele » Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:47 am

Lausten wrote: I link and run because you aren't serious. You never have been. You give just enough to make it appear that you might be serious, but after two or three questions, you lose it and start rambling on about the mainstream media or something. Maybe I've got you confused with some other crank, but close enough.
ROTFLMAO. Lausten you continue to engage in only ad Homs, never offering one iota of scientific evidence or debate.

In contrast I post a very "serious" well researched article on groundwater, yet you fabricate that it is I who is not serious. How delusional. You are a legend in your own mind.

Curious why Pyrrho has protected your incessant personal attacks.

ROTFLMAO
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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Post by Jim Steele » Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:49 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:Jim

The 97%, like any published figure, comes with an error factor. It is probably more accurately 95% to 100% of climate scientists.
ROTFLMAO

Clearly Lance you have not studied the methods of those surveys. You perfectly demonstrate your blind beliefs! And still no links!
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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Post by Lance Kennedy » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:45 am

Not an internet link, but definitely a link. And while 97% may be a little too high or too low, it is pretty close to reality.

It is you, Jim, who has failed to present a good argument. When the vast majority of climate scientists agree with anthropogenic climate change, your lone voice crying out "It ain't true " is not carrying much weight.

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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Post by Jim Steele » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:25 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:Not an internet link, but definitely a link. And while 97% may be a little too high or too low, it is pretty close to reality.

It is you, Jim, who has failed to present a good argument. When the vast majority of climate scientists agree with anthropogenic climate change, your lone voice crying out "It ain't true " is not carrying much weight.
What are you ranting about Lance.

The evidence I present on groundwater storage and discharge is not refuted by a single climate scientist.

No matter how well established the evidence, it will never carry much weight for someone carrying your blind beliefs.
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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Post by Jim Steele » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:28 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:Not an internet link, but definitely a link. And while 97% may be a little too high or too low, it is pretty close to reality.
If you call close being off by 60% to 80%. ROTFLMAO

The Truth is surveys of actual scientists do not show 97% agreement. Most scientists do not respond or engage because good scientists know advocacy subverts objectivity. That is our scientific training. Besides skeptics get attacked ruthlessly as Carlos demonstrates

The 2014 AMS survey viewed here https://goo.gl/5zJLpt

26. 3% of the total scientists responded and 52% agreed the humans caused more than half of observed climate change.

Thus .26 X .52 =13.6 %. Thus only 13. 6% of ALL scientists in 2014 agreed with CO2 meme NOT 97%!

In the 2016 AMS survey viewed here https://goo.gl/95UYFj

53.3% responded and of those only 67% agreed change was mostly human induced.
Thus .533 X.67 = 36% . Thus in 2016 only 36% of ALL scientists agreed with CO2 meme NOT 97%!
“In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual." Galileo

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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Post by Lance Kennedy » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:37 am

Climate scientists, Jim. Not others. I do not give a damn what research psychologists think about climate. But 97% of climate scientists agree climate change is clearly influenced by human action.

And I have refrained from commenting on ground water. Perhaps it influences sea level rise and perhaps it does not. I will wait until I get data from someone other than you, since you have already demonstrated bias towards denying the seriousness of human generated climate change. The existence of that bias strongly implies that anything you present will be cherry picked.

I am not a climatologist, and I am not interested in trying to become one. But I respect the work and results of those who are genuine experts in that field. My reading on the subject is limited to such work. I also refrain from reading crackpot web sites.

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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Post by Jim Steele » Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:43 am

Let's summarize Lance.

Jim is a skeptic No matter how good his science is, Lance will never trust it because Lance thinks skeptics must be wrong. So Lance feels justified to make snarky insults.

That about sums it up, don't it! Why waste time repeating all your BS.

How odd for a Skeptic Forum
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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Post by Lance Kennedy » Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:27 am

Not quite.

Jim is not a skeptic. He is a denier. He is denying what 97% of the experts in this field have clearly stated that is real. Skeptics do not argue against good science.

To justify his denial, Jim turns to the incredibly shaky and unreliable process of logic and reasoning instead of the empirical data that reflect genuine science.

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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Post by Jim Steele » Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:49 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:Not quite.

Jim is not a skeptic. He is a denier. He is denying what 97% of the experts in this field have clearly stated that is real. Skeptics do not argue against good science.

To justify his denial, Jim turns to the incredibly shaky and unreliable process of logic and reasoning instead of the empirical data that reflect genuine science.
ROTFLMAO. Lance you are textbook anti-science!
1.    A) Good Science: Albert Einstein, “Never stop Questioning”

B) Anti-science: If you question you are a denier and should be ridiculed

2.    A) Good Science: Galileo, “In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual.

B) Anti-science: You are a denier if you question 

3.    A) Good Science: Richard Feynman scientists should exercise “a specific, extra type of integrity that is not lying, but bending over backwards to show how you're maybe wrong, [an integrity] that you ought to have when acting as a scientist. 

B) Anti-science: The science is settled. Stop questioning. You are a denier.

4.    A) Good Science: Carl Sagan writes, “Encourage substantive debate on the evidence by knowledgeable proponents of all points of view. Arguments from authority carry little weight. 

B) Anti-science: The consensus says you are a denier!


I think we need to add Lance's words of "wisdom" to this list. "You are a denier if you use "logic and reasoning". ROTFLMAO

BTW. My summation said all your blather would end in a snarky insult. You are indeed textbook. Just save yourself the trouble typing and copy and past my summation. :lol:

Jim is a skeptic No matter how good his science is, Lance will never trust it because Lance thinks skeptics must be wrong. So Lance feels justified to make snarky insults.
“In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual." Galileo

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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Post by Lausten » Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:22 pm

Jim Steele wrote:
Lausten wrote: I link and run because you aren't serious. You never have been. You give just enough to make it appear that you might be serious, but after two or three questions, you lose it and start rambling on about the mainstream media or something. Maybe I've got you confused with some other crank, but close enough.
ROTFLMAO. Lausten you continue to engage in only ad Homs, never offering one iota of scientific evidence or debate.

In contrast I post a very "serious" well researched article on groundwater, yet you fabricate that it is I who is not serious. How delusional. You are a legend in your own mind.

Curious why Pyrrho has protected your incessant personal attacks.

ROTFLMAO
Serious and well researched maybe, but not about the thing you are trying get from it. There's nothing in there that says global warming isn't real or glaciers aren't melting or sea level isn't rising. Seriously.
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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Post by Lausten » Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:47 pm

Jim Steele wrote:
1.    A) Good Science: Albert Einstein, “Never stop Questioning”

B) Anti-science: If you question you are a denier and should be ridiculed

You take a fundamental foundation of science and trivialize it. You don’t address evidence, you ignore it. You poke holes where there are known questions, which is to say, you do nothing.
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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Post by Major Malfunction » Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:48 pm

I don't often agree with Lance. But I am an environmental scientist. There is a clear correlation between human carbon emissions and global warming. If you can't see that, you're a {!#%@} retard. So shut up when grownups are talking.
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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:59 pm

Hey, Little Jimmy needs the money.
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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Post by Major Malfunction » Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:05 pm

I'm a good socialist. I pay my taxes. So he should just stand in the useless queue with all the rest.
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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:10 pm

Major Malfunction wrote:I'm a good socialist. I pay my taxes. So he should just stand in the useless queue with all the rest.
Lumpen Jimmy.
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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Post by Major Malfunction » Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:18 pm

I need another clue.
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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:40 pm

Major Malfunction wrote:I need another clue.
lum·pen·pro·le·tar·i·at
noun
(especially in Marxist terminology) the unorganized and unpolitical lower orders of society who are not interested in revolutionary advancement.
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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Post by Major Malfunction » Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:03 pm

Ah. You're calling Jimmyboy a cuck.
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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Post by Lance Kennedy » Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:12 pm

Just a point for Jim.

His fault is not using logic and reasoning. It is relying on it to the exclusion of empirical data. Science USES logic and reasoning, just as it uses microscopes and many other tools. Science, however, is based on empirical (real world) data. The ancient Greek philosopher, Aristotle, claimed that logic and reasoning could be used to uncover any truth. The world was held back by this piece of intellectual garbage for 2,000 years. The modern scientists rely on something far more powerful, real world data.

Jim needs to realise that, if science was a poker game, empiricism would always trump reasoning.

In the issue of global climate change, empirical data is gained from a thousand different sources, from satellite observations of ice cover, to direct temperature measurements, to sea level measures, to glacier core studies, to laboratory measures of infra red scattering, to many more. The empirical results give a clear cut conclusion, which is supported by 97% of climate scientists. That is that the world is warming and human activity is driving that warming.

Accepting good data is being rational. Denying good data is not being a skeptic. It is being a denier.

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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Post by Major Malfunction » Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:15 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:The ancient Greek philosopher, Aristotle, claimed that logic and reasoning could be used to uncover any truth. The world was held back by this piece of intellectual garbage for 2,000 years.
I thought it was the Christians burning the Great Library, but nevermind.
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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Post by Jim Steele » Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:35 pm

Lausten wrote: Serious and well researched maybe, but not about the thing you are trying get from it. There's nothing in there that says global warming isn't real or glaciers aren't melting or sea level isn't rising. Seriously.
WTF! Lausten what are you smoking???

Nothing I have ever written has ever stated that the earth has not warmed since the Little Ice Age, or that glaciers have not melted since then or that sea level hasn't risen??

So WTF are you talking about????
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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Post by Jim Steele » Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:48 pm

ROTFLMAO

Lance epitomizes the lurkers on this forum, ironically named a Skeptic Forum.

No one dares debate the empirical evidence I present nor the inferences that emerge with reason and logic. Lance has fabricated a false narrative that I have ignored empirical evidence, although nothing is further from the truth. The subject of this post is illustrative. The essays contains a bounty of empirical evidence, but it is the alarmists that avoid it, choosing instead to engage in ad Homs.

Fascinating mass psychology!

What's most fascinating here is that a legion of group-thinkers who never debate the evidence or the science, will come out of the woodwork in a feeding frenzy so typical of mob mentality, to attack anyone who dares expose the most dubious foundations of their blind beliefs. Such behavior is the foundation of aberrant psychology.

But that said, all any of you blind believers ever need to do is copy and paste my summary of your behavior

"Jim is a skeptic No matter how good his science is, (I) will never trust it because (I) think skeptics must be wrong. So (I) feel justified to make snarky insults?"

Actually it is satisfying to see how desperate you all are to protect the beliefs you don't understand. Textbook! I must be very close to the truth!
Last edited by Jim Steele on Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Post by Jim Steele » Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:57 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:That is that the world is warming and human activity is driving that warming.

Accepting good data is being rational. Denying good data is not being a skeptic. It is being a denier.
Lance you just revealed the source of your error that you thinks justifies your ad Homs.

The real data indeed says the world has warmed since the Little Ice Age.

The real data indeed says humans have increased the atmospheric concentration of CO2.

The real data indeed says CO2 is a greenhouse gas. We can all agree

But the real data stops there!

Claims that warming, sea level rise and melting glaciers have been driven by CO2 is conjecture, not empirical evidence.

CO2 concentrations were too low in the early 1800s to have caused the glaciers to begin melting, for sea level to rise or the earth to warm.

And it is that evidence that should make everyone a skeptic unless they are blinded by false beliefs. It is not I, but Lance and his silly mob that deny the empirical evidence.
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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Post by Lance Kennedy » Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:43 pm

Jim

I have not been delivering ad homs, since my statements have been directed at your arguments, not you personally.

The empirical evidence goes way past what you think, which explains your blindness on this subject. We KNOW, in detail, the impact of greenhouse gases. It has been demonstrated with experiments in the lab. We can see it in real life in the extra terrestrial zones. Venus, with too much greenhouse gas is way hotter than its position close to the sun accounts for, if we do not take the greenhouse effect into account. Mars with too little greenhouse gas is way colder. The Earth is warming in a way totally consistent with calculations based on greenhouse gas concentration. There is now a plethora of data showing changes in greenhouse gases over geological times and related temperature changes.

In ignoring these facts, plus many others, you are denying solid empirical data, making you a global warming denier. A skeptic is a person who refuses to believe superstitions. A denier is a person who refuses to believe what good scientific data shows to be correct.

There is nothing new in scientific denial and the social groups involved. Big Tobacco bribed scientists to come up with "fake news " of the scientific variety to deny the harmful health effects of smoking. Gun manufacturers bribe academics to come up with statements like "more guns, less crime", and Big Pharma pays researchers to publish misleading material about their products. In this case, it is simply a continuation of this horrible trend, with Big Coal and Big Oil, paying people to fuel global warming denial. I feel that you have been caught up by their propaganda, and sucked into believing something that is just plain wrong.

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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Post by Lance Kennedy » Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:46 pm

Major Malfunction wrote:
Lance Kennedy wrote:The ancient Greek philosopher, Aristotle, claimed that logic and reasoning could be used to uncover any truth. The world was held back by this piece of intellectual garbage for 2,000 years.
I thought it was the Christians burning the Great Library, but nevermind.
MM

A common misconception. I agree that the Christian church was a part of suppressing progress for 2,000 years, but a single book burning is not enough for that. My statement blaming an attitude towards logic was, of course, an oversimplification, and other factors were also involved. But the idea that you could learn anything with logic alone was very, very damaging.

The big break through leading to our modern society, with its advanced science and technology, came with the break from logic, and the collection of empirical data instead. Leonardo da Vinci led the way, in a small way, and Copernicus, Kepler and Brahe followed. The new approach was formalised by Francis Bacon with the first published account of the scientific method as use by modern researchers. (There was an earlier version written by Muslim scholars but it had little impact on Europe).

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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Post by Jim Steele » Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:56 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote: The big break through leading to our modern society, with its advanced science and technology, came with the break from logic, and the collection of empirical data instead.
ROTFLMAO

The big break in climate alarmism was ignoring all logic and embracing blind beliefs only supported by psychobabble, that attacks those who expose the lack of evidence.

As seen here, the post here is about groundwater, but no one dares address that issue at all, preferring to engage in all manner of psychobabble!

Priceless!
Last edited by Jim Steele on Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Post by Jim Steele » Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:58 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote: I have not been delivering ad homs, since my statements have been directed at your arguments, not you personally.
And the psychobabble just never ends!
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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Post by Lance Kennedy » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:21 pm

Jim

The groundwater issue is a side issue.
I am quite happy to admit that it might make a small contribution to sea level rise. Not the major one, since the experts have already done the research to show that the melt of glaciers and oceanic thermal expansion is sufficient to account for pretty much all the rise. But if you want to insist that groundwater makes a contribution, feel free. I am not really in the mood to debate trivialities.

If you really want to attack global warming ideas, have a go at predictions. I will probably agree with you on that one. We simply do not yet know enough to make accurate predictions.

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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Post by Major Malfunction » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:37 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:
Major Malfunction wrote:
Lance Kennedy wrote:The ancient Greek philosopher, Aristotle, claimed that logic and reasoning could be used to uncover any truth. The world was held back by this piece of intellectual garbage for 2,000 years.
I thought it was the Christians burning the Great Library, but nevermind.
MM

A common misconception. I agree that the Christian church was a part of suppressing progress for 2,000 years, but a single book burning is not enough for that. My statement blaming an attitude towards logic was, of course, an oversimplification, and other factors were also involved. But the idea that you could learn anything with logic alone was very, very damaging.

The big break through leading to our modern society, with its advanced science and technology, came with the break from logic, and the collection of empirical data instead. Leonardo da Vinci led the way, in a small way, and Copernicus, Kepler and Brahe followed. The new approach was formalised by Francis Bacon with the first published account of the scientific method as use by modern researchers. (There was an earlier version written by Muslim scholars but it had little impact on Europe).
The Socratic method of thought experiment was a bit of a trip down the garden path, but at least he was trying. To the best of his faculties and resources.

I still don't see how that excuses burning civilisations.
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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Post by Pyrrho » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:43 pm

Warning issued for this post:

viewtopic.php?p=636482#p636482

Severely abusive language.
For any forum questions or concerns please e-mail skepticforum@gmail.com or send a PM.

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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Post by Jim Steele » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:59 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote: The groundwater issue is a side issue.

ROTFLMAO.

Lance it is the topic of this post.

You don't seem to be able to acknowledge that it is you who indulges in side issues.

But such is the nature of psychobabble!

ROTFLMAO
“In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual." Galileo

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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Post by Major Malfunction » Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:26 pm

Pyrrho wrote:Warning issued for this post:

viewtopic.php?p=636482#p636482

Severely abusive language.
Fine, fine. I used "language". I'm an Aussie. We call everyone cunts. Bit of cultural difference respect here, please.
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Re: Ancient Groundwater Discharge Explains Steady Sea Level Rise

Post by Jim Steele » Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:33 pm

real science on groundwater continued
Similarly, during the Little Ice Age between 1300 and 1850 AD, montane glaciers as well as Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets, grew and reached their largest extent in the last 7,000 years. Ocean temperatures cooled by about 1 degree. Yet inexplicably, most researchers estimate global sea level never dropped significantly. They report sea levels were “stable” during the Little Ice Age, fluctuating only by tenths of a millimeter. That stability contrasts greatly with the recent rising trend, that has led some to attribute the current rise to increasing CO2 concentrations. However Little Ice Age stability defies the physics of cooling temperatures and increasing water storage in growing glaciers that should have caused a significant sea level fall. However, that seeming paradox is consistent with a scenario in which a “base flow” from groundwater discharge would offset any transfer of waters to growing Little Ice Age glaciers.

Once the growth of Little Ice Age glaciers stopped, and groundwater base flow was no longer offset, we would expect sea levels to rise as witnessed during the 19th and 20th centuries. Such a scenario would also explain Munk’s enigma that sea level rise had started too early, before temperatures had risen significantly from any CO2-driven warming.

Interestingly, assuming a ballpark figure of a 1.2 mm/year groundwater base flow, unbalanced groundwater discharge could also explain the much higher sea levels estimated for the previous warm interglacial, the Eemian. Researchers estimate sea levels ~115,000 years ago were about 6 to 9 meters higher than today. That interglacial has also been estimated to have spanned 15,000 years before continental glaciation resumed. Compared to our present interglacial span of 11,700 years, an extra 3,300 years of groundwater discharge before being offset by resumed glacier growth, could account for 4 meters of the Eemian’s higher sea level.
“In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual." Galileo