The concept of Untermensch (Subhuman)

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The concept of Untermensch (Subhuman)

Post by Goody67 » Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:29 pm

The recently banned user VFX wrote:
In the policy it is not people who are subhuman, it never has been. It is the ideas of people which denigrate others which is non human as people here try to do. If you do this disrespect then yes you are
untermenschlich. Real people who have culture do not treat others with disrespect.
However, Otto Helmut's published in 1937 in Volk in Gefahr "The Threat of the Subhumans" ("Die Drohung des Untermensch"):

Image

Jews, Poles, Russians, and others were also described as subhumans.
Last edited by Goody67 on Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The concept of Untermensch (Subhuman)

Post by Goody67 » Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:45 pm

Goebbels said in a speech at the "Weltgefahr des Bolschewismus" ("World danger of Bolshevism") (1936):
subhumans exist in every people as a leavening agent.
The Nazi propaganda pamphlet "Der Untermensch" in 1942:
As well as all these the pamphlet "Der Untermensch" (The Subhuman) described Jews, Gypsies, blacks and non-whites as subhumans "Mulattos and Finn-Asian barbarians, Gipsy’s and black skin savages all make up this modern underworld of subhumans that is always headed by the appearance of the eternal Jew.
Walther von Reichenau stated in his Severity Order in October 1941:
In this eastern theatre, the soldier is not only a man fighting in accordance with the rules of the art of war, but also the ruthless standard bearer of a national conception and the avenger of bestialities which have been inflicted upon German and racially related nations. For this reason the soldier must learn fully to appreciate the necessity for the severe but just retribution that must be meted out to the subhuman species of Jewry. The Army has to aim at another purpose, i. e., the annihilation of revolts in hinterland which, as experience proves, have always been caused by Jews.
Goebbels issued a propaganda directive in October 1939:
It must be clear to everyone in Germany, down to the last milkmaid, that Polish is the same as subhuman. This message must constantly put over as a central theme, and appear in treatment of standard expressions such as "Polish mismanagement", "Polish depravity", and the like. This should continue until it is embedded in the subconscious of every German that all Poles, whether workers or intellectuals, must be treated like vermin.
Himmler said in March 1936 at the Prussian State Council:
the 'many little subhumans in our service' were 'attached to their master with doglike devotion [...] because he was decent to them.'
Himmler said in Ukraine in 1941:
We are a country in the heart of Europe surrounded by open borders, surrounded by a world that is becoming more and more Bolshevized, and increasingly taken over by the Jew in his worst form, name the tyranny of a totally destructive Bolshevism. To believe that this development is going to come to an end in a year's time, or in several years or even in decades, is culpably reckless and erroneous. We must assume that this struggle will last for generations, for it's the age-old struggle between humans and subhumans in its current new phase of the struggle between the Aryan peoples and Jewry and the organizational form of Jewry has adopted of Bolshevism. I see my task as being to prepare the whole nation for this struggle by buiilding up the police welded together with the order of the SS as the organization to protect the Reich at home just as the Wehrmacht provides protection against threats from abroad.
Himmler said in a speech in 1944:
an Atilla was born in this seething mass of millions of subhumans, in the same way suddenly in some couple of two people the spark can be ignited by means of which an Atilla, a Genghis Khan, a Tamberlaine, a Stalin can emerge from lost traces of Nordic-Germanic-Aryan blood that is floating in this mass and which alone can give rise to powers of leadership and organization.
Himmler speaking when becoming Chief of the German Police on 18 June 1936 stated:
Subhumans threaten the health and life of the national body in two respects: as criminals they damage and undermine the community and they also act as tools and weapons for the plans of those powers hostile to the nation, international, ideological, and intellectual opponents' utilized subhumanity, which is invariably bent on subversion and disorder, but also the supporters of their own political and ideological organizations, in other words, Jewry, Freemasonry, and the politicized churches. Moreover, they utilize all those other groups in the German nation who, whether consciously or having been misled, support special interests that are determined to the German people (Legitimists, etc.).
Martin Bormann in 1943 stated in a memorandum about foreign labourers:
It impossible to win someone over to a new idea while insulting his inner sense of worth at the same time. One cannot expect the highest level of performance from people who are called beasts, barbarians, and subhuman. Instead, positive qualities such as the will to fight Bolshevism, the desire to safeguard one’s own existence and that of one’s country, commitment and willingness to work are to be encouraged and promoted.
Himmler issued in 1943 a secret order to destroy the Warsaw Ghetto, he stated:
An overall plan for the razing of the ghetto is to be submitted to me. In any case we must achieve the disappearance from sight of the living-space for 500,000 sub-humans (Untermenschen) that has existed up to now, but could never be suitable for Germans, and reduce the size of this city of millions – Warsaw – which has always been a center of corruption and revolt.
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Re: The concept of Untermensch (Subhuman)

Post by Lance Kennedy » Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:28 am

Not sure what you are getting at, Goody.

Nazi propaganda is not something too many people give credence to these days.

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Re: The concept of Untermensch (Subhuman)

Post by scrmbldggs » Sat Nov 03, 2018 3:36 am

:hmm: Maybe Goody meant to post the topic in Holocaust, Genocide, and Mass Violence? Or here. :?
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Re: The concept of Untermensch (Subhuman)

Post by ElectricMonk » Sat Nov 03, 2018 4:02 am

To even bring up the term not only shows a lack of historical context, but also displays an unfortunately common misunderstanding of Nietzsche.

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Re: The concept of Untermensch (Subhuman)

Post by Gord » Sat Nov 03, 2018 8:41 am

Goody67 wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:29 pm
The recently banned user VFX wrote:
In the policy it is not people who are subhuman, it never has been. It is the ideas of people which denigrate others which is non human as people here try to do. If you do this disrespect then yes you are
untermenschlich. Real people who have culture do not treat others with disrespect.
How is the not a Poe?
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Re: The concept of Untermensch (Subhuman)

Post by Goody67 » Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:24 pm

ElectricMonk wrote:
Sat Nov 03, 2018 4:02 am
To even bring up the term not only shows a lack of historical context, but also displays an unfortunately common misunderstanding of Nietzsche.
Huh? Nietzsche only used the term "Untermensch" once when making a contrast between his concept of an "Übermensch" (superman). However, he did not use the the term in a racial way, the term was used in a racial way by Lothrop Stoddard, Alfred Rosenberg and other Nazis.
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Re: The concept of Untermensch (Subhuman)

Post by Goody67 » Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:25 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:
Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:28 am
Not sure what you are getting at, Goody.

Nazi propaganda is not something too many people give credence to these days.
I'm making it clear that different ethnic groups and races were described as subhumans by the Nazis.
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Re: The concept of Untermensch (Subhuman)

Post by scrmbldggs » Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:44 pm

What makes you think that's not already known, Goody67?
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Re: The concept of Untermensch (Subhuman)

Post by Goody67 » Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:06 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:
Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:44 pm
What makes you think that's not already known, Goody67?
There are some people that think the Nazis only used the term against political opponents.

Strangely enough, one could have been categorised as an 'Aryan' and an 'Untermensch'. A subhuman Aryan, who would have thought it?
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Re: The concept of Untermensch (Subhuman)

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:11 am

Whodathunk Nazis were as opportunistic and/or hypocritical as the next guy...
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Re: The concept of Untermensch (Subhuman)

Post by Pyrrho » Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:18 pm

Moved topic.
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Re: The concept of Untermensch (Subhuman)

Post by Gord » Sun Nov 04, 2018 2:23 pm

Goody67 wrote:
Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:24 pm
ElectricMonk wrote:
Sat Nov 03, 2018 4:02 am
To even bring up the term not only shows a lack of historical context, but also displays an unfortunately common misunderstanding of Nietzsche.
Huh? Nietzsche only used the term "Untermensch" once when making a contrast between his concept of an "Übermensch" (superman)....
I thought he used the term in reference to "dwarves" and other mythological beings? (Or maybe that was something I read in a mythology book that I should have taken with a larger grain of salt. Plus it's been years since I read it, so I might have it mixed up. Nietzsche was the one with the mustache, right?...)
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Re: The concept of Untermensch (Subhuman)

Post by Goody67 » Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:02 pm

Gord wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 2:23 pm
I thought he used the term in reference to "dwarves" and other mythological beings? (Or maybe that was something I read in a mythology book that I should have taken with a larger grain of salt. Plus it's been years since I read it, so I might have it mixed up. Nietzsche was the one with the mustache, right?...)
You are right. :mrgreen:
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Re: The concept of Untermensch (Subhuman)

Post by Gord » Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:56 am

Daaaaamn! Gordmemory for the rare win!
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Re: The concept of Untermensch (Subhuman)

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:53 pm

I think Hitler also had a mustache.

Old AHF thread: https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic ... 6&t=211455
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Re: The concept of Untermensch (Subhuman)

Post by Gord » Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:18 pm

That's not a mustache! That's a bad choice after too much beer!
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
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Re: The concept of Untermensch (Subhuman)

Post by Goody67 » Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:32 am

Hitler said in November 1941:
Time meanwhile has proved what we National Socialists maintained for many years: it [the Soviet Union] is truly a state in which the whole national intelligentsia has been slaughtered, and where only spiritless, forcibly proletarianized subhumans remain. Above them, there is the gigantic organization of the Jewish commissars, that is, established slaveowners. Frequently people wondered whether, in the long run, nationalist tendencies would not be victorious there. But they completely forgot that the bearers of a conscious nationalist view no longer existed. That, in the end, the man who temporarily became the ruler of this state, is nothing other than an instrument in the hands of this almighty Jewry. If Stalin is on stage and steps in front of the curtain, then Kaganovich and all those Jews stand behind him, Jews who, in ten-thousandfold ramifications, control this mighty empire.
November 8, 1941 speech in the Munich Löwenbräukeller on the anniversary of the Putsch

During a conversation in 1941 he said:
Nearly two thousand people in Germany disappear every year without trace—victims, for the most part, of maniacs or sadists. It’s known that these latter are generally recidivists—but the lawyers take great care to inflict only very light penalties on them. And yet these subhuman creatures are the ferment that undermines the state! I make no distinction between them and the brutes who populate our Russian P.O.W. camps.
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Re: The concept of Untermensch (Subhuman)

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:58 pm

Goody67 wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:29 pm
The recently banned user VFX wrote:
In the policy it is not people who are subhuman, it never has been. . . .
In his book Fascists Mann discusses sociologist Theodore Abel's 1934 assessment of 581 essays submitted to him by Nazis ("Why I Became a Nazi"). Among other reasons the Nazi essay writers cited was this (as Mann explains), "These militants were also very strong on 'enemies.' . . . Some 21 percent used terms excluding enemies from human or moral status (such as 'subhuman,' 'rodents,' 'murderers')." Mann notes that the individuals identified in these essays as enemies were described as belonging to a number of groups: Marxists, communists, or Socialists (by far most prevalent); Jews; liberals and capitalists; Catholics; and foreigners.

Similarly, Mann quotes answers to the question "reasons for joining" required on SA application forms (from 1930); a typical entry explained that the applicant wished to support Hitler and Germany "in the battle against communism and the SPD, those traitors to people and homeland, and to support the eradication of these parasites . . ." (pp 144-145)

Mann also discusses how among Volkisch circles in the 'teens and 'twenties, and at German universities, the twin ideas of Gross Deutschland and expansion to the east prevailed: "Though Jews were picked on as the most obvious 'enemy' of such an eastward-tilting project, Slavs were also included." (p 150)

It shouldn't be surprising that the Nazi way of thinking was shared by rank and file Nazis. Although it will come as a shock to VFX.
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