The death of a scholar, Professor Faurisson RIP

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The death of a scholar, Professor Faurisson RIP

Post by David » Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:03 pm

The Revisionist scholar, Robert Faurisson, died of heart failure at his longtime home in Vichy, France on October 21.
Michael A. Hoffman wrote a very nice piece about the Professor which is worth reading.
I quote a small part of the Mr. Hoffman's article.

In the media’s search for the roots of Faurisson’s supposed “anti-semitism” and “neo-Nazism” (because no one can doubt The Holy Truth except from anything other than impure motives), the name Paul Rassinier is seldom permitted to intrude on the cartoon-like demonization process. It was Rassinier who was Faurisson’s spiritual and intellectual mentor. A member of the anti-Nazi French resistance, Rassinier was arrested by the Nazis, brutalized and interned in the Buchenwald concentration camp. After the war, he served briefly in the French National Assembly. In the 1950s, he was deeply disturbed by what he regarded as unconscionable exaggerations of Nazi crimes, including claims of mass death by poison gas. He expressed his views in The Lie of Ulysses: A Glance at the Literature of Concentration Camp Inmates (1950), and The Drama of the European Jews (1964), among other works.

Faurisson's study of Rassinier’s work led him to a passionate interest in his doubts and questions. To explain away this freethinking curiosity and healthy skepticism in terms of the pathology of Jew-hate is a cheap and pathetic trick. In the 1960s, Rassinier admonished Faurisson, who was a dedicated amateur athlete, “Stop the tennis and the skiing and get to work.” And work he did, un travail de bénédictin, inspiring people on the Left and Right of all races and religions, from Henri Rocques and Roger Garaudy to Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Dieudonné M’bala M’bala.

https://codoh.com/library/document/6181/?lang=en

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Re: The death of a scholar, Professor Faurisson RIP

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:23 pm

Hey, David’s back.
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Harvard Crimson (on why it refused to run an add by Bradley Smith):
“(It is) vicious propaganda based on utter BS that has been discredited time and time again.”

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Re: The death of a scholar, Professor Faurisson RIP

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:24 pm

Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Harvard Crimson (on why it refused to run an add by Bradley Smith):
“(It is) vicious propaganda based on utter BS that has been discredited time and time again.”

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Re: The death of a scholar, Professor Faurisson RIP

Post by Im_Not_Creative_Enough » Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:09 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:23 pm
Hey, David’s back.
I think you meant to say " 'Monty' was banned so he found the password to his old account".
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Re: The death of a scholar, Professor Faurisson RIP

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:03 pm

Hey David Allen Andrew Merlin, you're a day late and a dollar short . . . we've long been grieving your absence and recently Mr Faurisson's demise. Join us! - SM

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Re: The death of a scholar, Professor Faurisson RIP

Post by David » Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:44 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:03 pm
Hey David Allen Andrew Merlin, you're a day late and a dollar short . . . we've long been grieving your absence and recently Mr Faurisson's demise. Join us! - SM
Well, SM In the study of history, a day is nothing; I am sure you know what Zhou Enlai (reportedly) said about the French revolution, and today a dollar just ain't what it used to be. So don't grieve, learn something, (to paraphrase another apocryphal quote)...
Read Germar Rudolf's The Chemistry of Auschwitz and ponder why the best quotes all seem to be contrived, like significant parts of Holocaust history.

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Re: The death of a scholar, Professor Faurisson RIP

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:08 am

>> "Read . . ."

Good golly, that's just what VFX and montgomery, our recent denier newbies, ranted and railed against me for doing so much!

In this instance, though, with Fauri gone and you alive and well, I'd rather party ...

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Re: The death of a scholar, Professor Faurisson RIP

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:19 am

David wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:44 pm
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:03 pm
Hey David Allen Andrew Merlin, you're a day late and a dollar short . . . we've long been grieving your absence and recently Mr Faurisson's demise. Join us! - SM
Well, SM In the study of history, a day is nothing; I am sure you know what Zhou Enlai (reportedly) said about the French revolution, and today a dollar just ain't what it used to be. So don't grieve, learn something, (to paraphrase another apocryphal quote)...
Read Germar Rudolf's The Chemistry of Auschwitz and ponder why the best quotes all seem to be contrived, like significant parts of Holocaust history.

See, it’s stuff like that that makes me grateful I no longer read Holocaust Handbooks.
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Harvard Crimson (on why it refused to run an add by Bradley Smith):
“(It is) vicious propaganda based on utter BS that has been discredited time and time again.”

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Re: The death of a scholar, Professor Faurisson RIP

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:24 am

David knows full well that most of us here have read a lot of denier tracts. He's just being a grouch because he doesn't want to party with us.
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Re: The death of a scholar, Professor Faurisson RIP

Post by David » Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:35 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:24 am
David knows full well that most of us here have read a lot of denier tracts. He's just being a grouch because he doesn't want to party with us.
I'm not a grouch but when I see comments like "Another dried-up, old Nazi cow from NC.... Voice that could scour a pot....and Bye, Bob. Don’t let the doorknob smack you in the ass on the way out: I tend to think I would rather party somewhere else and avoid unpleasant comments on peoples' age and sex.
Now I am curious, SM, have you ever visited Treblinka or Auschwitz/Birkenau?

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Re: The death of a scholar, Professor Faurisson RIP

Post by Balmoral95 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:38 am

David wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:35 am
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:24 am
David knows full well that most of us here have read a lot of denier tracts. He's just being a grouch because he doesn't want to party with us.
I'm not a grouch but when I see comments like "Another dried-up, old Nazi cow from NC.... Voice that could scour a pot....and Bye, Bob. Don’t let the doorknob smack you in the ass on the way out: I tend to think I would rather party somewhere else and avoid unpleasant comments on peoples' age and sex.
Now I am curious, SM, have you ever visited Treblinka or Auschwitz/Birkenau?
Danke for quoting me. Do hang 'round and I'll give you a few more... :mrgreen:

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Re: The death of a scholar, Professor Faurisson RIP

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:03 am

David wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:35 am
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:24 am
David knows full well that most of us here have read a lot of denier tracts. He's just being a grouch because he doesn't want to party with us.
I'm not a grouch but when I see comments like "Another dried-up, old Nazi cow from NC.... Voice that could scour a pot....and Bye, Bob. Don’t let the doorknob smack you in the ass on the way out: I tend to think I would rather party somewhere else and avoid unpleasant comments on peoples' age and sex.
Now I am curious, SM, have you ever visited Treblinka or Auschwitz/Birkenau?
I was sorta proud of the “Bye, Bob, don’t let the doorknob smack you in the ass on the way out.”

I think you visited them, David. Apparently it didn’t do anything for you.
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Harvard Crimson (on why it refused to run an add by Bradley Smith):
“(It is) vicious propaganda based on utter BS that has been discredited time and time again.”

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Re: The death of a scholar, Professor Faurisson RIP

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:04 am

I prefer to think of Carolyn Yeager as a silly Nazi groupie.
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Harvard Crimson (on why it refused to run an add by Bradley Smith):
“(It is) vicious propaganda based on utter BS that has been discredited time and time again.”

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Re: The death of a scholar, Professor Faurisson RIP

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:29 am

Wow, you are grouchy, David! I never knew you were such a little snowflake sensitive soul, Mr David Merlin Allen Andrew David. I'll have to ask Matt about this.

What on earth would lead you to ask me if I've ever visited Treblinka or Auschwitz when I've posted here that I've not visited any camps? Btw if you have me confused with the scholars who've studied the Holocaust, please think again. And, be aware, that not having taken my lawn mower to Treblinka, I know and have produced more about the place than Krege. You said you'd been to Majdanek and yet couldn't tell us how prisoners were brought into the camp, LOL.

Which of these ~190 books have you read, David, and how do the charges you make against "Believers" apply against them?
Adler, The Jews of Paris and the Final Solution
Adler, Theresienstadt 1941-1945: The Face of a Coerced Community (new edition)
Allen, The Business of Genocide 2002
Aly, Final Solution
Aly, Hitler’s Beneficiaries
Aly/Heim, Architects of Annihilation
Ancel, The History of the Holocaust in Romania
Angrick/Klein, The “Final Solution” in Riga 2006
Arad, Belzec Sobibor Treblinka (revised edition 2018)
Arad, Holocaust in the Soviet Union
Bankier, Expulsion and Extermination 2014
Bankier, The Germans and the Final Solution
Bartov, Anatomy of a Genocide: The Life and Death of a Town Called Buczacz 2017
Bartov, Erased
Bauer, American Jewry and the Holocaust
Bauer, The Death of the Shtetl
Bazyler, Forgotten Trials of the Holocaust 2015
Bender, The Jews of Bialystok
Berkhoff, Harvest of Despair
Berkhoff, Motherland in Danger
Black, Kaltenbrunner
Blatman, The Death Marches 2011
Bloxham, Genocide on Trial
Bloxham, The Final Solution
Bowman, The Agony of Greek Jewry 2009
Braham, The Politics of Genocide: The Holocaust in Hungary (rev ed) 2017
Brandon/Lower (eds), The Shoah in Ukraine
Breitman, Official Secrets
Breitman/Lichtman, FDR and the Jews
Browning, Nazi Policy, Jewish Workers, German Killers
Browning, Ordinary Men
Browning, Origins of the Final Solution
Browning, Remembering Survival
Browning, The Final Solution and the German Foreign Office
Bryant, Eyewitness to Genocide 2014
Buggeln, Slave Labor in Nazi Concentration Camps 2009
Burds, The Holocaust in Rovno 2013
Burleigh, Death and Deliverance
Caestecker, Refugees From Nazi Germany and the Liberal European States 2016
Caplan/Wachsmann (eds), Concentration Camps in Nazi
Cesarani, Eichmann
Cesarani, Final Solution 2016
Chapoutot, The Law of Blood: Thinking and Acting as a Nazi 2018
Chare, Matters of Testimony: Interpreting the Scrolls of Auschwitz 2017
Cholawsky, The Jews of Bielorussia during World War II
Cole, Holocaust City
Confino, A World Without Jews 2014
Corni, Hitler’s Ghettos
Crowe, Oskar Schindler
Dawidowicz, War Against the Jews 
Dean, Collaboration in the Holocaust
Desbois, In Broad Daylight 2017
Dillon, Dachau and the SS: A Schooling in Violence 2015
Dlugoborski/Piper (eds), Auschwitz 1940-1945, 5 vols 2000
Douglas, The Memory of Judgment
Douglas, The Right Wrong Man: John Demjanjuk and the Last Great Nazi War Crimes Trial 2016
Dwork/Pelt, Auschwitz
Earl, The Nuremberg SS-Einsatzgruppen Trial 2009
Engel, Facing a Holocaust
Engel, In the Shadow of Auschwitz
Epstein, Model Nazi 2010
Epstein, The Minsk Ghetto
Favez, The Red Cross and the Holocaust
Feferman, The Holocaust in the Crimea and the North Caucasus 2016
Feldman, Networks of Nazi Persecution: Bureaucracy, Business and the Organization of the Holocaust 2016
Fleming, Auschwitz, The Allies and Censorship 2014
Fox, The Holocaust in the East: Local Perpetrators and Soviet Responses
Friedlander, The Origins of Nazi Genocide
Friedlander, Years of Extermination
Friedlander, Years of Persecution
Friling, Arrows in the Dark
Gerlach, The Extermination of the European Jews 2016
Gerwarth, Hitler’s Hangman
Gilbert, The Holocaust
Gitelman, Bitter Legacy: Confronting the Holocaust in the USSR
Goldstein & Goldstein, The Holocaust in Croatia 2016
Gorny, The Jewish Press and the Holocaust 2012
Grabowski, Hunt for the Jews 2013
Gross, Golden Harvest
Gross, Neighbors
Grossman et al, Shelter from the Holocaust: Rethinking Jewish Survival in the Soviet Union 2017
Gruner, Jewish Forced Labor under the Nazis
Gutman, The Jews of Warsaw
Gutman/Berenbaum (eds), Anatomy of the Auschwitz
Heberer/Matthaeus (eds), Atrocities on Trial
Heller, The Nuremberg Military Tribunals 2011
Helm, Ravensbruck: Life and Death in Hitler's Concentration Camp for Women
Herf, The Jewish Enemy 2006
Hilberg, Destruction (3rd edition)
Horwitz, Ghettostadt
Horwitz, In the Shadow of Death: Living Outside the Gates of Nauthausen
Ingrao, The SS Dirlewanger Brigade
Ingrao, Believe and Destroy 2013
Ioanid, The Holocaust in Romania
Jardim, The Mauthausen Trial 2012
Jasch, The Participants: The Men of the Wannsee Conference 2017
Jewish Responses to Persecution 4 vol
Jockusch/Finder (eds), Jewish Honor Courts
Kassow, Who Will Write Our History? 2007
Kay, Exploitation, Resettlement, Mass Murder 2006
Kay, Mass Violence in Nazi-Occupied Europe 2018
Kay, The Making of an SS Killer 2016
Kay/Rutherford/Stahel (eds), Nazi Policy on the Eastern Front, 1941 2012
Kitchen, Speer: Hitler's Architect
Krakowski, Chelmno
Krakowski, The War of the Doomed
Kruglov, The Losses Suffered by Ukrainian Jews
Kushner, The Holocaust and the Liberal Imagination
Lanicek, Czechs, Slovaks and the Jews
Laqueur, The Terrible Secret
Leff, Buried By The Times
Levin, The Holocaust        
Levine, From Indifference to Activism
Levine, Raoul Wallenberg in Budapest: Myth, History and Holocaust
Leydesdorff, Sasha Pechersky: Holocaust Hero, Sobibor Resistance Leader, and Hostage of History 2017
Longerich, Goebbels: A Biography
Longerich, Himmler
Longerich, Holocaust        
Longerich, The Unwritten Order
Lower, Nazi Empire-Building
Lozowick, Hitler’s Bureaucrats 2002
Mailander, Female SS Guards and Workaday Violence 2015
Matheus, The Political Diary of Alfred Rosenberg and the Onset of the Holocaust 2015
Meyer, A Fatal Balancing Act 2013
Michman (ed), Belgium and the Holocaust
Michman, The Emergence of Jewish Ghettos During the Holocaust 2011
Montague, Chelmno and the Holocaust 2011
Moore, Victims and Survivors: The Nazi Persecution of the Jews in the Netherlands 1940-1945 
Morgan, Hitler's Collaborators: Choosing between bad and worse in Nazi-occupied Western Europe 2018
Ofer, Escaping the Holocaust
Pauer-Studer/Velleman, Konrad Morgen 2015
Paulsson, Secret City 2002
Pelt, van, The Case for Auschwitz
Pendas, The Frankfurt Auschwitz Trial
Phayer, The Catholic Church and the Holocaust
Pieper, Fegelein’s Horsemen
Poprzeczny, Hitler’s Man in the East: Odilo Globocnik
Porat, The Blue and Yellow Stars of David
Porat, The Fall of a Sparrow: The Life and Times of Abba Kovner
Poznanski, Jews in France during World War II 2001
Prusin, Serbia under the Swastika: A World War II Occupation 2017
Rabinovici, Eichmann’s Jews 2011
Radzik, The Extermination of the Lublin Ghetto / Zaglada lubelskiego getta
Redlich, Together and Apart in Brzezany
Remy, The Malmedy Massacre: The War Crimes Trial Controversy 2017
Rieger, Creator of Nazi Death Camps
Rossino, Hitler Strikes Poland
Rothkirchen, The Jews of Bohemia & Moravia
Rudberg, The Swedish Jews and the Holocaust 
Rutherford, Prelude to the Final Solution
Safrian, Eichmann’s Men
Schelvis, Sobibor
Schmidt, Karl Brandt: The Nazi Doctor 2007
Schwindt, Majdanek
Segal, Days of Ruin: The Jews of Munkacs During the Holocaust
Segal, Genocide in the Carpathians: War, Social Breakdown, and Mass Violence, 1914-1945 
Segev, World Jewish Congress and Holocaust
Seibel, Persecution and Rescue
Shepherd, War in the Wild East
Siemens, Stormtroopers
Silberklang, Gates of Tears 2013
Stangneth, Eichmann Before Jerusalem 2014
Stargardt, The German War: A Nation Under Arms
Steinberg, All or Nothing
Steinweis, Kristallnacht
Stone (ed), The Historiography of the Holocaust
Stone, Histories of the Holocaust
Stone, The Liberation of the Camps
Sullam, The Italian Executioners: The Genocide of the Jews of Italy 2018
The Diary of Samuel Golfard and the Holocaust in Galicia
Tomaszewski/Werbowski, Code Name: Zegota
Tooze, Wages of Destruction
Trunk, Judenrat (English)
Trunk, Łódź Ghetto: A History
Ullrich, Hitler: Ascent, 1889-1939 2016
Wachsmann, KL 2015
Wagner, IG Auschwitz
Wasserstein, Britain and the Jews of Europe
Weiss-Wendt, Murder Without Hatred
Westermann, Hitler’s Police Battalions
Wildt, An Uncompromising Generation
Wildt, Hitler’s Volksgemeinschaft
Wuenschmann, Before Auschwitz 2015
Wyman, The Abandonment of the Jews
Yablonka, The State of Israel vs Adolf Eichmann
Yahil, The Holocaust         
Zalc, Microhistories of the Holocaust 2016
Zimmerman, Polish Underground and the Jews 2015
Zucotti, Holocaust Odysseys: The Jews of Saint-Martin-Vesubie and Their Flight through France and Italy 
Oh, what the heck, just tell us which books on the list you've read - and let's start with only three important titles, look for Montague's book on Chełmno, Feferman's The Holocaust in the Crimea and the North Caucasus, and Lozowick's Hitler’s Bureaucrats - then tell us how they exemplify your calumnies against Holocaust scholars, er, give us your book review. Thanks, as always, party on! - SM

edits: darned doubles!
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:03 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: The death of a scholar, Professor Faurisson RIP

Post by David » Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:33 am

Balmoral95 wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:38 am

Danke for quoting me. Do hang 'round and I'll give you a few more... :mrgreen:
Well, no thank you, however I was also going to quote your homophobic friend from New Zealand to show why you guys are no fun to
party with.

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Re: The death of a scholar, Professor Faurisson RIP

Post by Balmoral95 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:37 am

David wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:33 am
Balmoral95 wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:38 am

Danke for quoting me. Do hang 'round and I'll give you a few more... :mrgreen:
Well, no thank you, however I was also going to quote your homophobic friend from New Zealand to show why you guys are no fun to
party with.
Good, saves me the time offurther responding to your crapola.

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Re: The death of a scholar, Professor Faurisson RIP

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:22 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:24 pm
I made a topic on this:

http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=29787
David needed his own thread.
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Re: The death of a scholar, Professor Faurisson RIP

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:26 am

David wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:33 am
Balmoral95 wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:38 am

Danke for quoting me. Do hang 'round and I'll give you a few more... :mrgreen:
Well, no thank you, however I was also going to quote your homophobic friend from New Zealand to show why you guys are no fun to
party with.
Well, David, if you can’t handle it, buh-bye. None of your denier pals are here anymore.
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Harvard Crimson (on why it refused to run an add by Bradley Smith):
“(It is) vicious propaganda based on utter BS that has been discredited time and time again.”

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Re: The death of a scholar, Professor Faurisson RIP

Post by Balmoral95 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:17 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:22 am
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:24 pm
I made a topic on this:

http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=29787
David needed his own thread.
What he needs is a bit more time confined to his own bed.

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Re: The death of a scholar, Professor Faurisson RIP

Post by Gord » Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:31 am

Yeah but Faurisson is still dead, right?
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE
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Re: The death of a scholar, Professor Faurisson RIP

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:31 am

Gord wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:31 am
Yeah but Faurisson is still dead, right?
Just like Francisco Franco.
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Harvard Crimson (on why it refused to run an add by Bradley Smith):
“(It is) vicious propaganda based on utter BS that has been discredited time and time again.”

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Re: The death of a scholar, Professor Faurisson RIP

Post by Gord » Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:49 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:31 am
Gord wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:31 am
Yeah but Faurisson is still dead, right?
Just like Francisco Franco.
Good, we don't want the dead rising from the grave this close to Halloween. It would make trick-or-treating very confusing.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE
Is Trump in jail yet?

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Re: The death of a scholar, Professor Faurisson RIP

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:05 am

Gord wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:49 am
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:31 am
Gord wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:31 am
Yeah but Faurisson is still dead, right?
Just like Francisco Franco.
Good, we don't want the dead rising from the grave this close to Halloween. It would make trick-or-treating very confusing.
Worse, they might start dancing and we know what bad dancers they are.

Image
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Harvard Crimson (on why it refused to run an add by Bradley Smith):
“(It is) vicious propaganda based on utter BS that has been discredited time and time again.”

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Re: The death of a scholar, Professor Faurisson RIP

Post by scrmbldggs » Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:40 pm

:hmm: Driller!
.
Lard, save me from your followers.

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Re: The death of a scholar, Professor Faurisson RIP

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:21 pm

At least EtienneSC told us at ISF how many of the scholarly works from Nick Terry's list of important and recent books on the Holocaust and related war crimes he'd read: IIRC 3 out of 300 or so. Montgomery and VFX failed to say here how many we'd read (undoubtedly a number between 0 and 1), even as they, more crudely, denounced the works as slanted, Zionist and unreliable.

The question always arises: how do they know that the scholarship is slanted and unreliable, and Zionist inspired, if they don't know the scholarship. It reminds me of this exchange I had with right-wing Catholic activists leafletting Downtown Crossing in Boston in 1983 about Godard's movie Hail Mary (I can recall it only because I wrote it down at the time):
Nun: Please read this sometime today. We're trying to stop this movie [“Hail, Mary”] they're bringing to Boston. We'd like your help.
Person: I haven't seen the movie. I'd like to make up my own mind about it. What's so bad about it?
Nun: It is blasphemy against God and shows Mary and Jesus in the worst way. It is an offense against God. It seems that today everyone has civil rights except God.
Person: Have you seen the movie?
Nun: No, I'm a good Catholic. Are you a Catholic?
Person: I can't really condemn something I don't know anything about. I consider myself to be a thinking person.
Nun: Well, evidently you are not a Catholic!
Deniers are like that but worse, because they claim the mantle of "revisionists," that is, those who would revise the dominant historiography and scholarship of a period, yet as a group they have apparently not done step 1, learn the historiography they would revise. Actual revisionist work is deeply familiar with the historiography - I think of books like Gruner on forced labor, Blatman on the death marches, etc.

And they have the gall, to prop up their fiction of an interest in a free and open exchange of intellectual ideas, to criticize their interlocutors for not having read revisionist material (please, give me back those hours I've spent with Il Re di Convoluzione, Hayward, Butz, Incoherent History, JHR, Smith's Report, Rudolf, Kues, Jansson, and so on! - what wasted time).

Full disclosure: on my list of 189 titles above, I've read only 158 of them.
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Re: The death of a scholar, Professor Faurisson RIP

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:14 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:21 pm
It reminds me of this exchange I had with right-wing Catholic activists leafletting Downtown Crossing in Boston in 1983 about Godard's movie Hail Mary
I remember something similar to this happening with Scorcese’s “The Last Temptation of Christ.” My father never understood the big deal, he read the book at Catholic school.

I’ve never seen it.
And they have the gall, to prop up their fiction of an interest in a free and open exchange of intellectual ideas, to criticize their interlocutors for not having read revisionist material (please, give me back those hours I've spent with Il Re di Convoluzione, Hayward, Butz, Incoherent History, JHR, Smith's Report, Rudolf, Kues, Jansson, and so on! - what wasted time).
It’s one (thought not the only) reason why I no longer read “Holocaust Handbooks.”
Full disclosure: on my list of 189 titles above, I've read only 158 of them.
Holy moly I’ve got a long way to go!!!!!

:shock:

:lol:
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


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Re: The death of a scholar, Professor Faurisson RIP

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:31 pm

The point is that we are not scholars of this period - I say "we" excluding Nick Terry, Hans Metzner, Sergey Romanov, and Roberto Muehlenkamp, all of whom have posted here - yet we've read a lot of the core literature that deniers rail against - and a lot of "revisionist" stuff.

As for me, I don't read German, Yiddish, Polish, Russian, French, Hungarian, Greek or other languages important in the field - Swedish doesn't cut it LOL - so how much archival research can I do? Seriously. Jesus wept. When I wrote a piece on Jansson and "steam" at HC, I had to have help with sources in languages I don't read, FSS. But deniers should not imagine that because most of us here, or on other forums, have various such "gaps," that others also do - or that those working in the field for real, as a whole, do. Despite what might be said in posts debating with me, I have never presented myself as, and would not claim to be, in expert in this field: far from it, I'm an interested "lay" person, so to speak. Or maybe a Zionist operative or Hasbro salesperson. And that's why I rely on experts for my learning. It's kind of simple, really, and pretty damned logical.

The entire project of HD is hollow - and exposed as a political-ideological enterprise, I should say farce - in that HDers fail at square one, in not dealing with the vast scholarship - remaining largely ignorant of it - but still saying that it is wrong and even dishonest. Reading their critiques next to works listed above, for instance, makes instantly clear how risible are deniers' "intellectual" pretensions, even the best read of their ilk.

And then to read nitwits like been-there, SS, Trollo, huntinger, montgomery, and VFX witter on about what they are totally unfamiliar with - smh!

(On that note, the folks at Rodoh seem aware enough to view montgomery already as a liability to their cause . . . they sussed him out more quickly than some here, to be honest.)
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Re: The death of a scholar, Professor Faurisson RIP

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:21 pm

I certainly never claimed to be any type of expert and I haven’t read as much as you or others. I also cannot read in multiple languages.

What I have done is read as much as I can find with the resources I have. I also hunt for whatever I can find on-line, including documents that are translated along with relevant testimony. It really isn’t that hard. What it does take is time and a willingness to hunt down footnotes.

It also helps (I’ve brought this up before) to understand what was going on at the time we discuss. I read a lot of material on WW II before I studied the Third Reich in depth. I studied the Third Reich before I started on the Holocaust.

Deniers like Montgomery don’t bother, they just make fun of weird things and pick on witness testimony because that’s what feeds their antisemitism.

I always find it funny when I’m accused of being Jewish or being a Zionist. FFS I’m an ex-Catholic and I’ve been openly critical of Israeli policies on this forum and elsewhere.
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


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“(It is) vicious propaganda based on utter BS that has been discredited time and time again.”

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Re: The death of a scholar, Professor Faurisson RIP

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:41 pm

Yup, we're mostly pretty much the same that way. And, yup, the denunciations of anyone posting evidence and arguments for the Holocaust and German war crimes as Zionists or influenced by Zionism are simply tokens of HDers' obsessions.

As in your case, their charges have nothing to do with what I've read or where I come from. I'm not an ex-Catholic, however; despite my grandfather's being an evangelical Baptist preacher, I was raised an atheist - albeit one who was expected to read the Christian Bible and know that history. My father was demanding that way :)
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The death of a scholar, Professor Faurisson RIP

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:47 pm

My mother wanted her youngest son (me) to be a priest....

Oops.
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Harvard Crimson (on why it refused to run an add by Bradley Smith):
“(It is) vicious propaganda based on utter BS that has been discredited time and time again.”

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Re: The death of a scholar, Professor Faurisson RIP

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:23 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:47 pm
My mother wanted her youngest son (me) to be a priest....

Oops.
My father, aged 15, felt he had to tell his hellfire and brimstone preacher father that he didn't accept Christianity or even believe in God.

My grandfather's first reply, knowing his son quite well, "This means no more spot on the church basketball team, you realize?" LOL

They had, of course, long and vigorous discussions; even at 15 my father was like that. I will say this about my grandfather: he was always extremely close to my father, and vice versa. Their moments of tension over religion occurred - but they were rare and not that severe. Whatever my grandfather felt, he prioritized his relationship with my father more. My grandfather, also, was funny as, er, hell. He could raise his eyebrow in a way that cracked me up. He had a great sense of humor for a scary dude. But one swore in front of him at personal risk! LOL

My father actually made sure that we were all exposed to many different things including religion. Had I been a knee-jerk rebel, I would have become Catholic, which is what my mother's background was! Which troubled my grandfather's wife no end - she once said that a friend of hers had converted from Catholicism to Christianity. My father and I could only look at each other in wonder.
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Re: The death of a scholar, Professor Faurisson RIP

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:34 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:23 pm

My father, aged 15, felt he had to tell his hellfire and brimstone preacher father that he didn't accept Christianity or even believe in God.
I never told my father though I think he knew. The good thing was my father never made a big deal about it.
Which troubled my grandfather's wife no end - she once said that a friend of hers had converted from Catholicism to Christianity. My father and I could only look at each other in wonder.
My oldest sister is the only one who remained Catholic, my brother became a Seventh Day Adventist and my younger sister goes to Life Church. Talk about odd choices for a family of Irish Catholics.

I’m estranged from my older sister who is the most intolerant person I’ve ever met. My sister and my brother put up with me being a heathen and I humor my mother by going to church with her when I visit or when she comes out.

I never got the religion thing, even as a kid I had no patience for it. But I don’t mind those who believe as long as they don’t pester me about it.

Naturally David would say the Holocaust is my religion. I find that strange considering he belongs to his own weird cult.
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Harvard Crimson (on why it refused to run an add by Bradley Smith):
“(It is) vicious propaganda based on utter BS that has been discredited time and time again.”

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Re: The death of a scholar, Professor Faurisson RIP

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:41 pm

I had two cousins for whom fundamentalist Baptism wasn't enough: they became Mennonites!

I veered away from all that, the mystical and magical thinking as well as the missionary zeal in my family, by doing history (and early in life political work and labor union organizing - which I actually quit when it felt akin the missionary zeal LOL), reading about science, and studying social and cultural theory. And doing photography.

I have also to say, about my father, that he was a big influence on me. I once, as a smart aleck graduate student, in debate with him about something or other, snapped, "But the evidence is all in." He said, calmly and slowly - so that I would never forget it: "The evidence . . . is never . . . all in."
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Re: The death of a scholar, Professor Faurisson RIP

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:54 pm

But wait....I thought only evidence from the 1940’s is the only evidence that counts!!!!

LOL

Learned that lesson long ago, we never know as much as we will learn in a year. Or five, ten, twenty years in the future.

Sadly my disinterest in the fiction I used to enjoy so much started about the same time as my interest in this subject began to grow. I started feeling like there was not as much time left to learn all the things I wanted to learn about.
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Harvard Crimson (on why it refused to run an add by Bradley Smith):
“(It is) vicious propaganda based on utter BS that has been discredited time and time again.”

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Re: The death of a scholar, Professor Faurisson RIP

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:03 pm

LOL I used to read novels voraciously - yup, that stopped about 15 years ago as I got more and more immersed in studying our painful period.

Sometime I will - if I live long enough - go back to re-read everything Faulkner wrote. I may even have missed one or two things first time through :)
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Re: The death of a scholar, Professor Faurisson RIP

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:56 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:21 pm
And they have the gall, to prop up their fiction of an interest in a free and open exchange of intellectual ideas, to criticize their interlocutors for not having read revisionist material (please, give me back those hours I've spent with Il Re di Convoluzione, Hayward, Butz, Incoherent History, JHR, Smith's Report, Rudolf, Kues, Jansson, and so on! - what wasted time).
And, on cue but way off target, montgomery pops up to tell DasPrussian porkies about this at Rodoh:
montgomery2 wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:02 pm
You obviously haven't read everything from both sides and people such as S.M. on the SSF obviously hasn't read very much of the denier's side either. The evidence for that is that he actually says so. He completely rejects holocaust denial by even the experts such as Faurisson and some of the more enlightened others.

Do you do the same? Your reply will tell me a lot about whether you have given yourself a chance to understand the topic. S.M.'s replies always told me that he never did.
As Nick Terry told the clown, I've read more "from the other side" than the clown has.

I may have told him that I've stopped reading much denier literature. But that's a different matter.
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Re: The death of a scholar, Professor Faurisson RIP

Post by David » Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:25 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:29 am

What on earth would lead you to ask me if I've ever visited Treblinka or Auschwitz when I've posted here that I've not visited any camps? Btw if you have me confused with the scholars who've studied the Holocaust, please think again. And, be aware, that not having taken my lawn mower to Treblinka, I know and have produced more about the place than Krege. You said you'd been to Majdanek and yet couldn't tell us how prisoners were brought into the camp, LOL.
Haha or groan To answer your question and comments.
1. Visiting the site is a very useful venture but it is not the only way to gain knowledge- Take your Majdanek jape.
Visiting the camp with the plans in hand made it clear that the bath buildings were both built according to the the plan:
Detainees were to come through the bath buildings front door (as designed) strip, shower, have their clothes fumigated, and enter the Camp (all as designed). The actual construction can be seen to be consistent with plans. Obviously there is other information, like the drop of deaths at the Camp
from 1.4 million to 78,000, which adds to our understanding of events.

2. no I do not think you are a scholar. The reason I asked you if you had bothered to go to Treblinka or Auschwitz is to gauge whether you had anything other than a self-satisfied Laputian approach to a subject that seems dear to your heart, judging from the amount of time you spend on it.

3. You sneer at Krege, but he has produced a real investigation about Treblinka and, importantly, he has an inquisitive mind; trying to find answers by scientific method:That is called Revisionism... And, he shared what he found until Believer harassment stopped him. I have never seen anything you produced about Treblinka other than a sotto voce admission that there was a large Polish mining company at the vast Treblinka gravel pit. (which I have been to and have not seen mentioned in any of your Believer books until after "discovered" by Revisionists in the 1980's)

And, in fact, let me throw out the failure of Believers to mention the vast quarry at Treblinka as a challenge to you regarding the integrity of Believer publications. NOW that Revisionists have found the quarry Believers sometimes make an admission of that which cannot be denied.
So my question will be of the next step toward honesty by Believers....which company ran the quarry, how much gravel was taken out, who took it out,
and where did it all go? I look forward to your revelations of the truthfulness of your library, SM

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Re: The death of a scholar, Professor Faurisson RIP

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:37 pm

David wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:25 pm
Haha or groan To answer your question and comments.
1. Visiting the site is a very useful venture but it is not the only way to gain knowledge- Take your Majdanek jape.
Visiting the camp with the plans in hand made it clear that the bath buildings were both built according to the the plan:
Detainees were to come through the bath buildings front door (as designed) strip, shower, have their clothes fumigated, and enter the Camp (all as designed). The actual construction can be seen to be consistent with plans.
David, you failed so miserably in this discussion that I won't belabor it. I will just say that 1) you've consistently distorted what those plans are and what was built - making an incompetent shambles - 2) you never dealt with the evidence I posted that rubbishes your claim - and 3) BROI, who had made an error-ridden video about my claims, wound up agreeing that Hunt was wrong (and thus you are too).
David wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:25 pm
2. no I do not think you are a scholar. The reason I asked you if you had bothered to go to Treblinka or Auschwitz is to gauge whether you had anything other than a self-satisfied Laputian approach to a subject that seems dear to your heart, judging from the amount of time you spend on it.
No, you asked to troll as you already knew the answer. Again, you claim to have visited some of the camps and can't even orient yourself to their layout.

A little bit out of school but I consulted a scholar - one who has visited Majdanek - and shared with him many of my thoughts, including posts from this forum, about the camp; he advised me that I understood well the layout and felt I'd be wasting time and effort and money to make a trip there. He thought your posts, which were quoted in many posts I sent him, were hilarious, btw.
David wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:25 pm
3. You sneer at Krege, but he has produced a real investigation about Treblinka and, importantly, he has an inquisitive mind; trying to find answers by scientific method:That is called Revisionism... And, he shared what he found until Believer harassment stopped him. I have never seen anything you produced about Treblinka other than a sotto voce admission that there was a large Polish mining company at the vast Treblinka gravel pit. (which I have been to and have not seen mentioned in any of your Believer books until after "discovered" by Revisionists in the 1980's)
I sneer at Krege and this hogwash trying to cover up his comprehensive failure.
David wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:25 pm
And, in fact, let me throw out the failure of Believers to mention the vast quarry at Treblinka as a challenge to you regarding the integrity of Believer publications. NOW that Revisionists have found the quarry Believers sometimes make an admission of that which cannot be denied.
So my question will be of the next step toward honesty by Believers....which company ran the quarry, how much gravel was taken out, who took it out,
and where did it all go? I look forward to your revelations of the truthfulness of your library, SM
First you answer my questions to you. Or are you chicken?

And, when we get to your questions, after addressing mine, be aware that I will ask you for references and precision, as I know how you work.
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Re: The death of a scholar, Professor Faurisson RIP

Post by Balmoral95 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:50 pm

Krege, lmao... even Mills at AHF sneered at that back in the day...

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Re: The death of a scholar, Professor Faurisson RIP

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:51 am

We all noticed how David dodged what I asked him, right?
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