Denier Absurdities

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Oozy_Substance
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Denier Absurdities

Post by Oozy_Substance » Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:54 pm

Let's try to make a list of denier absurdities. This is a list of absurd claims by deniers that present faulty reasoning or impossibilities.

I think the greatest ones are the following :

- The absurd claim that the Reinhard Operation Camps were transit-camps through which 2-3 million Jews have been "evacuated" to the "Russian East" while these two countries are at war. The Russians could have told all these Jews to turn back and step back to Poland, nullifying in an instant the alleged attempts of the Nazis to evacuate the Jews eastwards.

- The absurd claim that Auschwitz was a 100% labour camp to which the Nazis transported about 1 million Jews from all over Europe, and from remote places such as Greece simply for having the burden to house and feed all these Jews. All of this while Nazi Germany is already starting to lose the war and fights in two fronts.

- The absurd claim that the Einsatzgruppen operations in the East were aimed against Partisans and Communists while all evidence suggest that for every single partisan killed scores of Jews were killed

- The absurd claim that "Ausrotten" means "evacuation" not "extermination" against all evidence

Please provide some of your own

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Re: Denier Absurdities

Post by Goody67 » Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:26 pm

Oozy_Substance wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:54 pm
- The absurd claim that "Ausrotten" means "evacuation" not "extermination" against all evidence
This one is typically used by those who are not German or German wannabes.
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Re: Denier Absurdities

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Oct 22, 2018 8:29 pm

Goody67 wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:26 pm
Oozy_Substance wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:54 pm
- The absurd claim that "Ausrotten" means "evacuation" not "extermination" against all evidence
This one is typically used by those who are not German or German wannabes.
Also they fail to look at context, Himmler is obviously talking about killing. He is even likening it to the unpleasant but necessary action taken during the Night of the Long Knives.
A sober appraisal would put Himmler himself in the racially average band, or to some extent even below it: his face was round rather than oval, his nose more broad than slim, his normal bearing more ‘sagging’ than erect...
Longerich: Himmler

Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

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Re: Denier Absurdities

Post by Balsamo » Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:24 pm

Goody67 wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:26 pm
Oozy_Substance wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:54 pm
- The absurd claim that "Ausrotten" means "evacuation" not "extermination" against all evidence
This one is typically used by those who are not German or German wannabes.
I will play my pain in the ass here...again...

but indeed, depending on the context, the term "ausrotten" was not meant to imply systematically physical extermination back then, that is as a first meaning for Germans. It is actually the Nazis who gave the meaning it has today in "modern" German...as it turned out it meant physical extermination.

The former sense was more or less like the english "to get rid off", without details about the means. Therefore for the listener in the 1940's it could very well mean evacuation, as it was the official appellation of the extermination programs, for those who just watched the train full of deportees leaving a railway station, while it was understood by the dedicated personnel as extermination.

Even more than today, it greatly depended on the context, but as far as i know, in public speeches, Hitler used the term "Ausrottung des Judentums"...judentum not designating a physical body, therefore should be understood of the "destruction of Jewry" or "getting rid of Jewry"... And this expression had been very much used during Nazi speeches back in the 1930's at a time there were no extermination. But it is such an Nazi expression that no one would even think to use it in modern Germany, as for everyone, it now clearly means extermination.
Sorry to say but not back then.
The term is originally botanic, to "root out" weed from a field, it was therefore employed all over the 19th century in political speech as a way to "get rid" of nasty influences, political threats, etc. And among the German Antisemitic speeches of teh 19th century, you'll find a lot of association between "Ausrottung" and "Judentum", or "Jewish influence in trade" or "Jewish influence in culture", etc.

The Nazi did not invent those term, they only used it "ad nauseam" while actually innovating the the method to achieve this goal.

This might be one of the reasons why Himmler during his Posen speeches felt obliged to made it clear by stating that this "ausrottung", "evacuation", actually meant murder and extermination, by that, lifting any doubts some naive might still have.

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Re: Denier Absurdities

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:32 pm

Balsamo wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:24 pm
Goody67 wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:26 pm
Oozy_Substance wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:54 pm
- The absurd claim that "Ausrotten" means "evacuation" not "extermination" against all evidence
This one is typically used by those who are not German or German wannabes.
I will play my pain in the ass here...again...
No......not you????? Say it isn’t so?????

:lol:
This might be one of the reasons why Himmler during his Posen speeches felt obliged to made it clear by stating that this "ausrottung", "evacuation", actually meant murder and extermination, by that, lifting any doubts some naive might still have.
Which is why I think it’s important not to just look at the word itself but the context in which it is given.

Incidentally (I’ll need to find it, it is a barely remembered reference to a book I read some time ago) a German diplomat used the word in a dispatch to describe the Armenian Genocide. I’ll see if I can track it down.
A sober appraisal would put Himmler himself in the racially average band, or to some extent even below it: his face was round rather than oval, his nose more broad than slim, his normal bearing more ‘sagging’ than erect...
Longerich: Himmler

Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

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Re: Denier Absurdities

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:34 pm

BTW a German speaker I know listened to that bit of Himmler’s speech and came to the conclusion that Himmler was speaking of extermination. He’d never heard it before, is a bit of an antisemite and is given to a certain CT mindset.
A sober appraisal would put Himmler himself in the racially average band, or to some extent even below it: his face was round rather than oval, his nose more broad than slim, his normal bearing more ‘sagging’ than erect...
Longerich: Himmler

Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

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Re: Denier Absurdities

Post by Balsamo » Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:36 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:32 pm
Balsamo wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:24 pm
Goody67 wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:26 pm
Oozy_Substance wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:54 pm
- The absurd claim that "Ausrotten" means "evacuation" not "extermination" against all evidence
This one is typically used by those who are not German or German wannabes.
I will play my pain in the ass here...again...
No......not you????? Say it isn’t so?????

:lol:
This might be one of the reasons why Himmler during his Posen speeches felt obliged to made it clear by stating that this "ausrottung", "evacuation", actually meant murder and extermination, by that, lifting any doubts some naive might still have.
Which is why I think it’s important not to just look at the word itself but the context in which it is given.

Incidentally (I’ll need to find it, it is a barely remembered reference to a book I read some time ago) a German diplomat used the word in a dispatch to describe the Armenian Genocide. I’ll see if I can track it down.
Well that would be very interesting indeed.

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Re: Denier Absurdities

Post by Balsamo » Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:07 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:34 pm
BTW a German speaker I know listened to that bit of Himmler’s speech and came to the conclusion that Himmler was speaking of extermination. He’d never heard it before, is a bit of an antisemite and is given to a certain CT mindset.
Well, if you ask my mum which was born in Germany in 1940, she'll say the same thing.
And as a matter of fact, every modern German dictionary will give extermination as the first one, while older ones would mention this definition after the usual ones back then, that is "to root out" or "to get rid of", and even in this case, it would have referred to extermination of vermin, even if only due to the lack of "ausrottung" of human being in those times.

Today favored definition is the consequence of the Nazis, and i guess that both - that is your friend or my mum - haven't ever read political lampoons from the 19th century or botanic books from the 18th...

Of course, using a term that meant to "exterminate" - in the botanic sense - weed or vermin from a field, or in medical discourse, "Ausrottung" of diseases, to the Jewish minority is more than antisemitic, but my point was that if in those days, the term had been privileged because it focused on the goal and in the intent - ausrottung des Judentums" meaning in the Nazi context, to make Germany free of Jews and Jewish influence, without defining the means, even if it turned out to be massive physical extermination.

Of course, it already implied a great deal of violence, as by using the term, the Jews - even through the term Jewry - were reduced to the level of the bad weed in a field or a disease in a body, something that had to get ridden of, to disappear, which fits with the Nazi ideology.

But if one has to point out a semantic delirium from Deniers, i would focus on the term "liquidieren" instead...

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Re: Denier Absurdities

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:20 pm

Balsamo wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:36 pm
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:32 pm
Balsamo wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:24 pm
Goody67 wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:26 pm
Oozy_Substance wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:54 pm
- The absurd claim that "Ausrotten" means "evacuation" not "extermination" against all evidence
This one is typically used by those who are not German or German wannabes.
I will play my pain in the ass here...again...
No......not you????? Say it isn’t so?????

:lol:
This might be one of the reasons why Himmler during his Posen speeches felt obliged to made it clear by stating that this "ausrottung", "evacuation", actually meant murder and extermination, by that, lifting any doubts some naive might still have.
Which is why I think it’s important not to just look at the word itself but the context in which it is given.

Incidentally (I’ll need to find it, it is a barely remembered reference to a book I read some time ago) a German diplomat used the word in a dispatch to describe the Armenian Genocide. I’ll see if I can track it down.
Well that would be very interesting indeed.
It might be a bit, vacation ends tomorrow.
A sober appraisal would put Himmler himself in the racially average band, or to some extent even below it: his face was round rather than oval, his nose more broad than slim, his normal bearing more ‘sagging’ than erect...
Longerich: Himmler

Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

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Re: Denier Absurdities

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:32 pm

Balsamo wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:07 pm



Well, if you ask my mum which was born in Germany in 1940, she'll say the same thing.
And as a matter of fact, every modern German dictionary will give extermination as the first one, while older ones would mention this definition after the usual ones back then, that is "to root out" or "to get rid of", and even in this case, it would have referred to extermination of vermin, even if only due to the lack of "ausrottung" of human being in those times.
CODOH actually translated the whole speech and used the word “extirpated” which essentially means the same thing.
Of course, it already implied a great deal of violence, as by using the term, the Jews - even through the term Jewry - were reduced to the level of the bad weed in a field or a disease in a body, something that had to get ridden of, to disappear, which fits with the Nazi ideology.
I was going to say that Himmler used the term “bacillus “ in reference to Jews. He also specifically talks about bodies and references back to the “Night of the Long Knives.”
A sober appraisal would put Himmler himself in the racially average band, or to some extent even below it: his face was round rather than oval, his nose more broad than slim, his normal bearing more ‘sagging’ than erect...
Longerich: Himmler

Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

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Re: Denier Absurdities

Post by Balmoral95 » Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:33 pm

Balsy,

Thought your explanation was v. good.

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Re: Denier Absurdities

Post by Balsamo » Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:07 am

Balmoral95 wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:33 pm
Balsy,

Thought your explanation was v. good.
Who the hell is Balsy ???? :evil:

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Re: Denier Absurdities

Post by Balmoral95 » Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:15 am

Balsamo wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:07 am
Balmoral95 wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:33 pm
Balsy,

Thought your explanation was v. good.
Who the hell is Balsy ???? :evil:
Well, I had to give you an excuse to get pissed off and I couldn't find one in your post :mrgreen:

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Re: Denier Absurdities

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Oct 23, 2018 1:40 am

LOL
. . . all right we are two nations . . .

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Re: Denier Absurdities

Post by Oozy_Substance » Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:18 am

Balsamo wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:07 pm
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:34 pm
BTW a German speaker I know listened to that bit of Himmler’s speech and came to the conclusion that Himmler was speaking of extermination. He’d never heard it before, is a bit of an antisemite and is given to a certain CT mindset.
Well, if you ask my mum which was born in Germany in 1940, she'll say the same thing.
And as a matter of fact, every modern German dictionary will give extermination as the first one, while older ones would mention this definition after the usual ones back then, that is "to root out" or "to get rid of", and even in this case, it would have referred to extermination of vermin, even if only due to the lack of "ausrottung" of human being in those times.

Today favored definition is the consequence of the Nazis, and i guess that both - that is your friend or my mum - haven't ever read political lampoons from the 19th century or botanic books from the 18th...

Of course, using a term that meant to "exterminate" - in the botanic sense - weed or vermin from a field, or in medical discourse, "Ausrottung" of diseases, to the Jewish minority is more than antisemitic, but my point was that if in those days, the term had been privileged because it focused on the goal and in the intent - ausrottung des Judentums" meaning in the Nazi context, to make Germany free of Jews and Jewish influence, without defining the means, even if it turned out to be massive physical extermination.

Of course, it already implied a great deal of violence, as by using the term, the Jews - even through the term Jewry - were reduced to the level of the bad weed in a field or a disease in a body, something that had to get ridden of, to disappear, which fits with the Nazi ideology.

But if one has to point out a semantic delirium from Deniers, i would focus on the term "liquidieren" instead...
Thank you for the information. So I guess saying "Ausrotten" means "to get rid off" during the 40's is not that of an absurdity, but it does ignore the context.

Can you translate the exact meaning of "liquideren"?

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Re: Denier Absurdities

Post by scrmbldggs » Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:34 am

It's when you put something through a blender or boil down to mush. :-P
.
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Re: Denier Absurdities

Post by Goody67 » Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:49 am

Another example of Himmler using the same word is when he used it in his memorandum in 1940 titled "Reflections on the Treatment of Peoples of Alien Races in the East":
So grausam und tragisch jeder einzelne Fall sein mag, so ist diese Methode, wenn man die bolschewistische Methode der physischen Ausrottung eines Volkes aus innerer Überzeugung als ungermanisch und unmöglich ablehnt, doch die mildeste und beste.
https://www.ns-archiv.de/krieg/untermen ... mdvolk.php
Cruel and tragic as every individual case may be, this method is still the mildest and best one if, out of inner conviction, one rejects as un-German and impossible the Bolshevist method of physical extermination of a people.
https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=63400

RationalWiki debunks the claim with ease:
"But that word has also a different meaning!"

Any random German can tell you that the word ausrotten means to exterminate, kill off, to destroy and that the word is almost exclusively used in the meaning of to make something dead. Or to use the official German dictionary:

“”1. vollständig, bis zum letzten Exemplar vernichten, vertilgen 2.beseitigen, aus der Welt schaffen
In English, "1. to destroy, exterminate completely up until the very last one; 2. removal, to remove from the face of the Earth." Holocaust deniers like to point out that it is also used in the meaning of uprooting/removal (as in removal of tree stumps including roots) and that this was the common meaning of the word at the time. Therefore the Nazis, when speaking of ausrottung in fact merely meant the removal of Jews (to the East of Madagascar or to where Santa Claus lives).

However, they ignore the fact that it is only very rarely used in a metaphorical botanic way and that even in the end of the 18th and in the 19th century, the word ausrotten meant the worst possible option:

“”Frühe Antisemiten etablierten parallel zur allmählichen rechtlichen Gleichstellung der Juden ein Vokabular vom „Ausmerzen“, „Ausschalten“, „Beseitigen“, „Entfernen“, „Unschädlichmachen“, „Vertilgen“ oder sogar „Ausrotten“
The Nazis had only one meaning in mind when mentioning the word ausrotten. Let alone they basically undermine their own reasoning: the Nazis uprooted the Jews to transfer them to concentration camps where they were to be ausgerottet.

Compare: "Gay" also means happy. How many people say anymore, "I am very gay today" when they mean "I am very happy today"?
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Re: Denier Absurdities

Post by Balsamo » Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:54 pm

Oozy_Substance wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:18 am
Balsamo wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:07 pm
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:34 pm
BTW a German speaker I know listened to that bit of Himmler’s speech and came to the conclusion that Himmler was speaking of extermination. He’d never heard it before, is a bit of an antisemite and is given to a certain CT mindset.
Well, if you ask my mum which was born in Germany in 1940, she'll say the same thing.
And as a matter of fact, every modern German dictionary will give extermination as the first one, while older ones would mention this definition after the usual ones back then, that is "to root out" or "to get rid of", and even in this case, it would have referred to extermination of vermin, even if only due to the lack of "ausrottung" of human being in those times.

Today favored definition is the consequence of the Nazis, and i guess that both - that is your friend or my mum - haven't ever read political lampoons from the 19th century or botanic books from the 18th...

Of course, using a term that meant to "exterminate" - in the botanic sense - weed or vermin from a field, or in medical discourse, "Ausrottung" of diseases, to the Jewish minority is more than antisemitic, but my point was that if in those days, the term had been privileged because it focused on the goal and in the intent - ausrottung des Judentums" meaning in the Nazi context, to make Germany free of Jews and Jewish influence, without defining the means, even if it turned out to be massive physical extermination.

Of course, it already implied a great deal of violence, as by using the term, the Jews - even through the term Jewry - were reduced to the level of the bad weed in a field or a disease in a body, something that had to get ridden of, to disappear, which fits with the Nazi ideology.

But if one has to point out a semantic delirium from Deniers, i would focus on the term "liquidieren" instead...
Thank you for the information. So I guess saying "Ausrotten" means "to get rid off" during the 40's is not that of an absurdity, but it does ignore the context.

Can you translate the exact meaning of "liquideren"?
To liquidate, or liquider in French which when used in relation with human, has always meant to kill to murder...Deniers, as far as i remember, tried to play the semantic game regarding the use of "liquidieren" when used by Goebbels.

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Re: Denier Absurdities

Post by Balmoral95 » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:03 pm

More specifically these:

"...the greater the number of Jews liquidated, the more consolidated will the situation in Europe be after this war."

Joseph Goebbels, March 6, 1942

"The procedure is a pretty barbaric one and not to be described here more definitely. Not much will remain of the Jews. On the whole it can be said that about 60 per cent of them will have to be liquidated whereas only about 40 per cent can be used for forced labor."

Joseph Goebbels, March 27, 1942

"Short shrift is made of the Jews in all eastern occupied areas. Tens of thousands of them are liquidated."

Joseph Goebbels, April 29, 1942

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Re: Denier Absurdities

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:21 pm

I thought this document spells out the whole absurd argument about “liquideren”

http://viewer.yadvashem.org/viewer/Show.aspx

German:

https://www.ns-archiv.de/imt/ps3401-ps3600/3428-ps.php

Translation:

https://www.historiography-project.com/ ... 428-PS.php

“In
exhaustive discussions with the SS Brigadier General Zenner
and the exceedingly capable Leader of the SD, SS lieutenant
Colonel Dr. jur. Strauch, we have liquidated in the last ten
weeks about 55,000 Jews in White Ruthenia. In the territory”

“In the
predominantly Polish territory Lida 16,000 Jews, in Zlonin
8,000 Jews, and so forth, have been liquidated. Owing to an
encroachment in the army rear zone, already reported
thither, the preparations made by us for liquidation of the
Jews in the area Glebokie, have been disturbed. The army
rear zone, without contacting me, has liquidated 10,000
Jews, whose systematical elimination had been provided for
by us in any event. In Minsk-City approximately 10,000 Jews
were liquidated on the 28 and 29 of July, 6,500 of them”

And so on...
A sober appraisal would put Himmler himself in the racially average band, or to some extent even below it: his face was round rather than oval, his nose more broad than slim, his normal bearing more ‘sagging’ than erect...
Longerich: Himmler

Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

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Re: Denier Absurdities

Post by Balsamo » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:29 pm

Goody67 wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:49 am
Another example of Himmler using the same word is when he used it in his memorandum in 1940 titled "Reflections on the Treatment of Peoples of Alien Races in the East":
So grausam und tragisch jeder einzelne Fall sein mag, so ist diese Methode, wenn man die bolschewistische Methode der physischen Ausrottung eines Volkes aus innerer Überzeugung als ungermanisch und unmöglich ablehnt, doch die mildeste und beste.
https://www.ns-archiv.de/krieg/untermen ... mdvolk.php
Cruel and tragic as every individual case may be, this method is still the mildest and best one if, out of inner conviction, one rejects as un-German and impossible the Bolshevist method of physical extermination of a people.
https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=63400

RationalWiki debunks the claim with ease:
"But that word has also a different meaning!"

Any random German can tell you that the word ausrotten means to exterminate, kill off, to destroy and that the word is almost exclusively used in the meaning of to make something dead. Or to use the official German dictionary:

“”1. vollständig, bis zum letzten Exemplar vernichten, vertilgen 2.beseitigen, aus der Welt schaffen
In English, "1. to destroy, exterminate completely up until the very last one; 2. removal, to remove from the face of the Earth." Holocaust deniers like to point out that it is also used in the meaning of uprooting/removal (as in removal of tree stumps including roots) and that this was the common meaning of the word at the time. Therefore the Nazis, when speaking of ausrottung in fact merely meant the removal of Jews (to the East of Madagascar or to where Santa Claus lives).

However, they ignore the fact that it is only very rarely used in a metaphorical botanic way and that even in the end of the 18th and in the 19th century, the word ausrotten meant the worst possible option:

“”Frühe Antisemiten etablierten parallel zur allmählichen rechtlichen Gleichstellung der Juden ein Vokabular vom „Ausmerzen“, „Ausschalten“, „Beseitigen“, „Entfernen“, „Unschädlichmachen“, „Vertilgen“ oder sogar „Ausrotten“
The Nazis had only one meaning in mind when mentioning the word ausrotten. Let alone they basically undermine their own reasoning: the Nazis uprooted the Jews to transfer them to concentration camps where they were to be ausgerottet.

Compare: "Gay" also means happy. How many people say anymore, "I am very gay today" when they mean "I am very happy today"?
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Red_herri ... ning.21.22
First, thanks a lot for the link i lost, i was actually looking for this Himmler's quote.

As for the definition, you might have misunderstood:
- First modern definition of Ausrotten is NOW primarily that of extermination. It is a fact, and we all know that.
The second assertion of whatever rationalwiki is, that the term meant this since the 18th or the 19th century is just false, sorry to say.

But as i posted on codoh back in those days on the issue, extermination was already one of the definitions of the term, it was just meant to be use as far as human beings were concerned. In the 19th and early 20th century, the term was used in a context of - sorry i don't now the english term - indefinite subjects. Even when Hitler accused the Jews to start the war with the hope to "Ausrotten" the European race, he did not meant, even in his sick minds - that through the war, the International Jew would physically exterminate every single European living in the continent, but that his belief was that the European "Kultur" and civilization and all that could represent it would be destroyed (Vernichtung").

Now, of course, in your first Himmler's quote i was looking for, the addition of "physischen" gives the term a more clear meaning, and then is to be understood as physical elimination. Remove this specific term, and One is back to the original metaphoric idea of getting rid of an "object" (disease, weed, influence, political thread, minorities,etc), without any precision in regards of the means that would/could be used. Mass murder and genocide could be one of those means, as it later turns out, but it was not systematically deducted from the term used in isolation.
Otherwise, it would not have featured in so many "political" speeches.
This is precisely this ambiguity that explains why the term was so often and freely used.

Sorry to say but i am not really impressed by the content of this "rationalwiki"...never heard of that site before by the way...I knew metapoedia which is the best collection of garbage one can find.

Quoting "Rationalwiki":
Frühe Antisemiten etablierten parallel zur allmählichen rechtlichen Gleichstellung der Juden ein Vokabular vom „Ausmerzen“, „Ausschalten“, „Beseitigen“, „Entfernen“, „Unschädlichmachen“, „Vertilgen“ oder sogar „Ausrotten“
Exactly, now all those terms cannot be interpreted as meaning "physical extermination", are they?

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Re: Denier Absurdities

Post by Nessie » Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:57 pm

The notion that all the evidence of mass gassing, from all the witnesses to the places to the documents has been faked, is absurd on a scale that is virtually unbelievable that it is believed. Deniers are in denial that they are alleging a hoax so massive it beggars belief.
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Re: Denier Absurdities

Post by VFX » Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:33 pm

Nessie wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:57 pm
The notion that all the evidence of mass gassing, from all the witnesses to the places to the documents has been faked, is absurd on a scale that is virtually unbelievable that it is believed. Deniers are in denial that they are alleging a hoax so massive it beggars belief.
When the USSR is involved with Zionist collusion to cover up their own culpability for posterity anything is possible. Katyn was most likely the mere tip of that iceberg. There were no mass gassing and nothing read so far has supported that claim with any credibility: in fact the contradictions in the stories alone are enough to discard them.

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Re: Denier Absurdities

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:40 pm

Speaking of "denier absurdities," look who's back :mrgreen:
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Re: Denier Absurdities

Post by Balmoral95 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:47 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:40 pm
Speaking of "denier absurdities," look who's back :mrgreen:
You only say stuff like that because you're insecure :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Denier Absurdities

Post by VFX » Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:01 pm

Balmoral95 wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:47 pm
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:40 pm
Speaking of "denier absurdities," look who's back :mrgreen:
You only say stuff like that because you're insecure :lol: :lol: :lol:
That is OK, this is why I am here to help guide you through that minefield of uncertainty. :lol: :D :)

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Re: Denier Absurdities

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:09 pm

Balmoral95 wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:47 pm
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:40 pm
Speaking of "denier absurdities," look who's back :mrgreen:
You only say stuff like that because you're insecure :lol: :lol: :lol:
LOL

I notice he cleared out to try coming back "later" with a clean slate hoping that his litany of idiocies and dodges would be forgotten. Let's just hope he can keep from flying his anti-Semitic flag enough to avoid The Hammer. I hate it when they get The Hammer.
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Re: Denier Absurdities

Post by Nessie » Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:17 am

VFX wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:33 pm
Nessie wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:57 pm
The notion that all the evidence of mass gassing, from all the witnesses to the places to the documents has been faked, is absurd on a scale that is virtually unbelievable that it is believed. Deniers are in denial that they are alleging a hoax so massive it beggars belief.
When the USSR is involved with Zionist collusion to cover up their own culpability for posterity anything is possible. Katyn was most likely the mere tip of that iceberg. There were no mass gassing and nothing read so far has supported that claim with any credibility: in fact the contradictions in the stories alone are enough to discard them.
There were mass gassings and nothing credible has come from the denier side to show otherwise.
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Re: Denier Absurdities

Post by scrmbldggs » Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:59 am

Surely you got that wrong, Nessie. Those special facilities where for weary travelers and workers to rest. Before a yuge backyard barbeque following.
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Re: Denier Absurdities

Post by VFX » Sat Oct 27, 2018 3:35 pm

Nessie wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:17 am
There were mass gassings and nothing credible has come from the denier side to show otherwise.
If that is the case then Mr Netanyahu has go a huge gas bill coming as well as the transportation expenses. He has nothing to fear as the gas was only used for delousing insects not Jude. There was a great tendency in the Reich to delouse the clothing minus the people in the clothing: it was probably decided much earlier on that hydrogen cyanide was not really condusive to the health and well being of the clothings inhabitants which is why they were asked to strip and shower with real water and soap, have their hair shaved all to stop them from getting terrible diseases such as typhus.
As for the alleged gassing incidents some people have great imaginations.

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Re: Denier Absurdities

Post by scrmbldggs » Sat Oct 27, 2018 3:56 pm

It would appear CO isn't really recommended for insect control.
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Re: Denier Absurdities

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:03 pm

Delousing by Bullets - by VFX
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Re: Denier Absurdities

Post by VFX » Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:45 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:03 pm
Delousing by Bullets - by VFX
Not recommended SM, though high effectual in that it gives rapid demise to the body louse. The MP40 and its variant could dispose of up to 550 lice per min with the 9 x 19mm rounds. Once again it was found best to treat the lice separately from the individual who wore the clothing due to rapid aeration of the circulatory system which was once again not conducisve to health and well being. The other issue it was found was that the clothing was a little tattered after the body louse removal which is why cyanide was recommended in lieu of bullets.
Carbon Monoxide can be used as a fumigant but not as effective due to lack of myoglobin in the body of insects. The effects are due to the combination of CO with the respiratory enzymes.Thus availability of CO and O/sub 2/ in equal amounts has sufficient effect on the cytochrome chain to prevent growth and depress the activity of an animal. (MU)
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German Soldier on Lead Fumigation Procudures

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Re: Denier Absurdities

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:57 pm

You're not only an {!#%@}, which is forgivable, but a tedious bore, which is not.
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Re: Denier Absurdities

Post by VFX » Sat Oct 27, 2018 5:07 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:57 pm
You're not only an {!#%@}, which is forgivable, but a tedious bore, which is not.
One should always admit when they are wrong and out of their depth: you are both. Have a nice day. Oh I found a new avatar for you. Feel free to use it.
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Re: Denier Absurdities

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Oct 27, 2018 5:42 pm

The sum of your contributions to discussion of our topic . . . sigh.
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Re: Denier Absurdities

Post by scrmbldggs » Sat Oct 27, 2018 6:39 pm

I'd say those posts are quite on topic. :lol:
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Re: Denier Absurdities

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Oct 27, 2018 7:05 pm

LOL he went back on ignore and now I forget what the posts said!
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Re: Denier Absurdities

Post by VFX » Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:01 pm

VFX wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:45 pm
Image

German Soldier on Lead Fumigation Procudures
Bit of an update. It was discovered the MP40 was a little too intense and expensive for the purposes of delousing and shotgun blasts sorta ruined the nice pyjamas provided. An American discovered the Bug-a-salt method which may have been used by the armed forces of the Reich in their relentless pursuit of disease prevention. This depiction shows the extermination of a few flies but it would work well on the body louse as well. The added advantage is that the integrity of the clothing is preserved and although painful can be used while worn. No people were hurt in this video.

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Re: Denier Absurdities

Post by Darren Wilshak » Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:49 pm

I can list many more than three but the top three are.

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"We are still waiting for anyone to rebut the main theme of the article that the decode in question and the numbers it quoted perfectly match those in the Korherr report.

Until such a rebuttal comes to light and goes through peer review the article stands the test of time. And after 10 years since the article was published both Peter (Witte) and I have moved on to other research projects. "

AHF