The Quest for Eye Witnesses to the Holocaust.

[Jeffk 1970]

The point seems to be that people on this forum are following two paths: the history path where discussion on historical technical issues are paramount

Well, we are trying.

and people like Monty and I who wish to discuss the absurdities on the apparent holocaust.

Which is a waste of time. May as well discuss if the earth is round.

Due to the deaths of 70 million people

That seems a little high.

including millions of Jude,

Getting warmer, between 5-6 million but that’s an improvement over your one million.

treating their deaths,sacrifice glibly is a dishonour:

Then why are you?

also fabricating their sacrifice is also a dishonour to them and their families.

Then it’s a good thing that we don’t.

To suggest they died like rats in a cellar, a leichenkeller demeans their lives.

Murdering people in such a fashion only demeans the murderers. Denying those deaths happened is far more demeaning.

while the deaths of 30 million Russians and 30 million others are not considered.

Maybe you should do a little more digging before saying such a thing.

[VFX]

Which is a waste of time. May as well discuss if the earth is round.

Its not it is oblate spheroid.

[Statistical Mechanic]

Then you can explain why your claims are not just fallacious arguments from incredulity and ignorance.

Nuremberg Military Tribunal Indictment charge No 6...

You do know the difference between a witness and an indictment, right?

The chain of events leading to this, also, has been described - and it amounts to nothing like what he keeps spamming the thread with. He refuses to engage with that chain of events in favor of posting the same thing over and over again.

[Nessie]

Then you can explain why your claims are not just fallacious arguments from incredulity and ignorance.

Nuremberg Military Tribunal Indictment charge No 6...

Now name and quote the witness you wish to discuss who said steam was used.

[Statistical Mechanic]

Now name and quote the witness you wish to discuss who said steam was used.

x2

[VFX]

Nuremberg Military Tribunal

Murdered to keep Typhoid Germs Alive...

[Statistical Mechanic]

... and then get back to work on Winer and Sakowicz. Thanks.

[Statistical Mechanic]

VFX, reference please. Also, what is the role of the claims in the Holocaust?

The reason I ask is that in part of the testimony which you cut off, Balachowsky told the IMT:

BALACHOWSKY: The human beings subjected to experiments were recruited, not only in the Buchenwald Camp, but also outside the camp. They were not volunteers; in most cases they did not know that they would be used for experiments until they entered Block 46. The recruitment took place among criminals, perhaps in order to reduce their large numbers in that way. But the recruitment was also carried out among political prisoners and I have to point out that recruits for Block 46 came also from Russian prisoners of war. Among the political prisoners and prisoners of war who were used for experimental purposes at Block 46, the Russians were always in the majority, for the following reasons:

Of all the prisoners who could exist in concentration camps it was the Russians who had the greatest physical resistance, which was obviously superior to that of the French or other people of western Europe. They could withstand hunger and ill-treatment, and, generally speaking, showed physical resistance in every respect. For this particular reason, Russian political prisoners were recruited for experiments in greater numbers than others. However, there were people of other nationalities among them, particularly French. I should now like to deal with details of the experiments themselves.

You also cut off this:

M. DUBOST: What is this document?

BALACHOWSKY: This document contains a record of the typhus cultures.

M. DUBOST: This document was taken by you from the camp?

BALACHOWSKY: Yes, I took this document from the camp, and its contents were summarized by me in the experiment book of Block 46.

M. DUBOST: Is this the document you handed to us?

BALACHOWSKY: We have actually made a more complete document-which is in the possession of the American Psychological Service-as we have the entire record, and this represents only one page of it.

M. DUBOST: I ask the Tribunal to take note that the French Prosecution submits this document, Document Number RF-334, as appendix to the testimony of Dr. Balachowsky.

BALACHOWSKY: [Continuing] In 1944, experiments were also made on the effects of vaccines. One hundred and fifty men lost their lives in these experiments. The vaccines used by the German Army were not only those manufactured in our Block 46, but also ones which came from Italy, Denmark, Poland, and the Germans wanted to ascertain the value of these different vaccines. Consequently, in August 1944 they began experiments on 150 men who were locked up in Block 46.

Here, I should like to tell you how this Block 46 was run. It was entirely isolated and surrounded by barbed wire. The internees had no roll call and no permission to go out. All the windows were kept closed, the panes were of frosted glass. No unauthorized person could enter the block. A German political prisoner was in charge of the Block. This German political prisoner was Kapo Dietzsch, an asocial individual who had been in prisons and in camps for 20 years and who worked for the SS. It was he who gave the injections and the inoculations and who executed people upon order. Strangely enough, there were weapons in the block, automatic pistols, and hand grenades, to quell any possible revolt, either outside or inside the block.

I can also tell you that an order slip for Block 46, sent to the office (Geschaftszimmer) at Block 50 in January 1945, mentioned three strait jackets to be used for those who refused to be inoculated.

Now I come back to the typhus and vaccine experiments. You will see how they were carried out.

The 150 prisoners were divided into 2 groups: those who were to be used as tests and those who were to- be the subjects. The latter only received (ordinary) injections of the different type; of vaccines to be tested. Those used for testing were not given any injections. Then, after the vaccination of the subjects, inoculations were given (always by means of intravenous injections) to everybody selected for this experiment, those for testing as well as the subjects. Those used for tests died about two weeks after the inoculation-as such is approximately the period required before the disease develops to its fatal issue. As for the others, who received different kinds of vaccines, their deaths were in proportion to the efficacy of the vaccines administered to them. Some vaccines had excellent results, with a very low death rate-such was the case with the Polish vaccines. Others, on the contrary, had a much higher death rate. After the conclusion of the experiments, no survivors were allowed to live, according to the custom prevailing in Block 46. All the survivors of the experiments were "liquidated" and murdered in Block 46, by the customary methods which some of my comrades have already described to you, that is by means of intracardiac injections of phenol. Intracardiac injections of 10 cubic centimeters of pure phenol was the usual method of extermination in Buchenwald.

The testimony - sheesh, I dunno, holy moly - seems to be about medical experiments at Buchenwald, and refers to a document from Buchenwald, not the Holocaust related information which your pal wants.

[Nessie]

Nuremberg Military Tribunal

Murdered to keep Typhoid Germs Alive...

Please post the witness name and at least a link to what they said about steaming please.

[VFX]

Please post the witness name and at least a link to what they said about steaming please.

The whole holocaust narrative really comes down to die Ergebnisse des Nürnberger Militärtribunals. For history purposes those witnesses are essential perhaps to historians or for ones own culpability in believing such stupidity. If you can find those witnesses which resulted in this fiasco then good luck. In the interim we are discussing the documents of the NMT and the testimony. The people presenting that information are the witnesses, presumably eyewitnesses.

[Statistical Mechanic]

No, it doesnt.

To prove your point, please tell us about the witnesses who told the IMT or NMT about steam chambers at Treblinka.

[Nessie]

Please post the witness name and at least a link to what they said about steaming please.

The whole holocaust narrative really comes down to die Ergebnisse des Nürnberger Militärtribunals. For history purposes those witnesses are essential perhaps to historians or for ones own culpability in believing such stupidity. If you can find those witnesses which resulted in this fiasco then good luck. In the interim we are discussing the documents of the NMT and the testimony. The people presenting that information are the witnesses, presumably eyewitnesses.

OK, so please name and quote the witness who describe steam being used.

[Statistical Mechanic]

The other fallacy VFX is peddling is that the IMT and NMT made a systematic investigation and trial of Nazi genocide/ that isn’t what the trial was and the extermination of the Jews was not the focus. The nearest we have is trial IX of the NMT which VFX has already fled discussion of.

[VFX]

OK, so please name and quote the witness who describe steam being used.

There were probably thousands. As you yourself said.

Nessie said; people being forced into chambers, a gas being introduced, those inside suffocating and dying.

The tale is that people were put into fake bathrooms or shower rooms, but as survivor Erna F. Rubinstein said
After all we had gone through during the last few days, it seemed that it was the gas that would now finish us. We looked at each other, realizing what our destiny was to be at last. No one uttered a word; we were resigned and ready.

Suddenly the showers were opened, and freezing water rinsed our naked bodies. We were alive.
Even though this was cold water, it would certainly have vapour pressure and would steam. All anyone witnesses was people walking into a shower room, taking a shower and seeing steam coming from the building in the very chilling Polish air. This was distorted into steaming rooms which morphed into gas chambers.

[VFX]

The other fallacy VFX is peddling is that the IMT and NMT made a systematic investigation and trial of Nazi genocide/ that isn’t what the trial was and the extermination of the Jews was not the focus. The nearest we have is trial IX of the NMT which VFX has already fled discussion of.

It is the world perception we are aiming at.

[Statistical Mechanic]

“Probably” isn’t an answer someone who knows would give. Post after post you practically brag about your utter ignorance of the history of Treblinka camp.

[Statistical Mechanic]

The other fallacy VFX is peddling is that the IMT and NMT made a systematic investigation and trial of Nazi genocide/ that isn’t what the trial was and the extermination of the Jews was not the focus. The nearest we have is trial IX of the NMT which VFX has already fled discussion of.

It is the world perception we are aiming at.

But, holy moly, you claimed something different to this when you wrote what I relied to:

The whole holocaust narrative really comes down to die Ergebnisse des Nürnberger Militärtribunals. For history purposes those witnesses are essential perhaps to historians or for ones own culpability in believing such stupidity.

Would you still have us believe then that historians rely almost exclusively on Nuremberg testimonies, as you wrote, or are you trying to figure out what to say that can get you off the hook?

[Statistical Mechanic]

OK, so please name and quote the witness who describe steam being used.

There were probably thousands. As you yourself said.

Nessie said; people being forced into chambers, a gas being introduced, those inside suffocating and dying.

The tale is that people were put into fake bathrooms or shower rooms, but as survivor Erna F. Rubinstein said
After all we had gone through during the last few days, it seemed that it was the gas that would now finish us. We looked at each other, realizing what our destiny was to be at last. No one uttered a word; we were resigned and ready.

Suddenly the showers were opened, and freezing water rinsed our naked bodies. We were alive.
Even though this was cold water, it would certainly have vapour pressure and would steam. All anyone witnesses was people walking into a shower room, taking a shower and seeing steam coming from the building in the very chilling Polish air. This was distorted into steaming rooms which morphed into gas chambers.

Link for this testimony please. Also the dates when Rubinstein was in Treblinka.

[Statistical Mechanic]

I felt like a break from this today so I picked up a non-H book to read and, by golly, it was the same thing, I thought it was about montgomery and VFX:

[Balmoral95]

“Probably” isn’t an answer someone who knows would give. Post after post you practically brag about your utter ignorance of the history of Treblinka camp.

He doesn't know. And neither does Monty.

Earlier today Monty asked VFX whether or not mobile krema ovens existed. Anyone who's read Mattorgno knows they did. So Monty has not read Mattorgno.

[Statistical Mechanic]

No, they don't know, so they throw in random presumed outrages (medical experiments at Buchenwald, who knew? prisoner abuse at Dachau, go figure?), make stuff up, repeat themselves, and bore us to tears in an orgy of empty self-congratulation, bilious trolling and baiting, and soporific lecturing.

[VFX]

No, they don't know, so they throw in random presumed outrages (medical experiments at Buchenwald, who knew? prisoner abuse at Dachau, go figure?), make stuff up, repeat themselves, and bore us to tears in an orgy of empty self-congratulation, bilious trolling and baiting, and soporific lecturing.

We will continue to throw in the absurd claims by showing documentation from the NMT. You are not asked to contribute or say anything. You are not the intended audience at all. The reason why you guys are becoming so shrill which almost shut down this forum is because the absurdities hurt your cherished beliefs. They should hurt, screaming at us calling us trolls will not hide the evidence which is lurking the archives.
The next one is the boiling of 7 female bodies to get 25 kg of fat to make soap. I'll do that later. Tomorrow the shrunken heads...Poor Mrs Koch

[Statistical Mechanic]

All anyone witnesses was people walking into a shower room, taking a shower and seeing steam coming from the building in the very chilling Polish air. This was distorted into steaming rooms which morphed into gas chambers.

Link for this testimony please. Also the dates when Rubinstein was in Treblinka.[/quote]
This is a total crock. We have many witness testimonies to bodies being removed from the so-called showers.

Because I'm lazy this evening, here's a small start:
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... hwitz.html
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... mando.html
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... toria.html
https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/bib1734
https://archive.org/details/BelzecSobib ... ue/page/n1
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... of_26.html

[Statistical Mechanic]

No, they don't know, so they throw in random presumed outrages (medical experiments at Buchenwald, who knew? prisoner abuse at Dachau, go figure?), make stuff up, repeat themselves, and bore us to tears in an orgy of empty self-congratulation, bilious trolling and baiting, and soporific lecturing.

We will continue to throw in the absurd claims by showing documentation from the NMT. You are not asked to contribute or say anything. You are not the intended audience at all.

Sorry for exploding each of these, one by one, as you go: I feel your pain.

your cherished beliefs.

Which are what?

The next one is the boiling of 7 female bodies to get 25 kg of fat to make soap. I'll do that later. Tomorrow the shrunken heads...Poor Mrs Koch

Still afraid to discuss (a) the genocide of the Jews and (b) Winer, the steam chamber witnesses, and Sakowicz. Coward.

[VFX]

Link for this testimony please. Also the dates when Rubinstein was in Treblinka.
This is a total crock. We have many witness testimonies to bodies being removed from the so-called showers.

Honestly unless you live in the tropics, open the window of your bathroom or shower room and look at the vapour escaping. Those witnesses are liars by the way but thank you for the source.

[VFX]

Still afraid to discuss (a) the genocide of the Jews and (b) Winer, the steam chamber witnesses, and Sakowicz. Coward.

They are not of the slightest importance to me. You discuss that with your friends. I know the claims are trash and so do you so who made them matters not: the fact that they appear at the NMT is the only concern at the moment.

[Statistical Mechanic]

Link for this testimony please. Also the dates when Rubinstein was in Treblinka.
This is a total crock. We have many witness testimonies to bodies being removed from the so-called showers.

Honestly unless you live in the tropics, open the window of your bathroom or shower room and look at the vapour escaping. Those witnesses are liars by the way but thank you for the source.

Another liar:

... the Wehrmacht commander of Ostrow recorded in the first war diary of the General Quartermaster of the Military Commander in the Generalgouvernement on 24 October 1942.

It reads: "OK Ostrow reports that the Jews in Treblinka are not sufficiently buried and therefore an unbearable smell of corpses befouls the air."51

Ostrow, it is significant to point out, was 20 kilometres from Treblinka.

https://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-his ... inka.shtml

The best denier argument is, I cannot believe it but it's so, "liar, liar pants on fire!"

[Statistical Mechanic]

Still afraid to discuss (a) the genocide of the Jews and (b) Winer, the steam chamber witnesses, and Sakowicz. Coward.

They are not of the slightest importance to me. You discuss that with your friends.

Then why are you spamming a thread devoted to "eye witness accounts of holocaust related information that isn't just more modern day fabrications"?

I know the claims are trash and so do you so who made them matters not: the fact that they appear at the NMT is the only concern at the moment.

There is not a single witness that discussed steam chambers at Treblinka who gave testimony at the NMT. Recall that your reply

OK, so please name and quote the witness who describe steam being used.

There were probably thousands. As you yourself said.

Nessie said; people being forced into chambers, a gas being introduced, those inside suffocating and dying.

The tale is that people were put into fake bathrooms or shower rooms, but as survivor Erna F. Rubinstein said
After all we had gone through during the last few days, it seemed that it was the gas that would now finish us. We looked at each other, realizing what our destiny was to be at last. No one uttered a word; we were resigned and ready.

Suddenly the showers were opened, and freezing water rinsed our naked bodies. We were alive.
Even though this was cold water, it would certainly have vapour pressure and would steam. All anyone witnesses was people walking into a shower room, taking a shower and seeing steam coming from the building in the very chilling Polish air. This was distorted into steaming rooms which morphed into gas chambers.

was to this:

Nuremberg Military Tribunal

Murdered to keep Typhoid Germs Alive...

Please post the witness name and at least a link to what they said about steaming please.

You still haven't linked to Rubinstein's testimony or given us the dates when she was in Treblinka. Please stop dodging.

[Statistical Mechanic]

VFX now writes of the witnesses his denier pal montgomery asked us to name so that we could discuss them, "They are not of the slightest importance to me."

When deniers paint themselves into a corner, they change the subject.

So utterly predictable . . . I predicted it.

[Jeffk 1970]

We will continue to throw in the absurd claims by showing documentation from the NMT.

All of it or only the portions that suit you?

You are not asked to contribute or say anything.

Guess that’s just too damn bad, we will contribute what we want and say whatever comes to mind. This isn’t some National Socialist paradise where only you can bring up and distort whatever you want.

You are not the intended audience at all.

Seems like your intended audience is back at RODOH.

The reason why you guys are becoming so shrill which almost shut down this forum is because the absurdities hurt your cherished beliefs.

LOL

You mean yours, the rest of aren’t members of some moribund ideology that should have stayed dead and buried with its socially awkward, flatulent founder.

The next one is the boiling of 7 female bodies to get 25 kg of fat to make soap. I'll do that later. Tomorrow the shrunken heads...Poor Mrs Koch

Make sure you properly cite everything and gave us links so that we can wipe it out for you.

[Darren Wilshak]

I felt like a break from this today so I picked up a non-H book to read and, by golly, it was the same thing, I thought it was about montgomery and VFX:

LOL. I am behaving myself or I would post some more comic panels.

[Balmoral95]

"NMT", Jesus facking wept.

[montgomery]

Let's play the game, "What eye witness said that"

Torture and execute people in time to music!

Name that eye witness in 30 seconds, starting now.

(half points for naming that tune!)

[montgomery]

Let's play again! "What eye witness said that"?

Burn human bodies in holes dug in a swampy plain which is frozen in January where it rains and snows constantly and there is mud everywhere -- what did they do when it was raining?

Name that eye witness in 30 seconds, starting now.

[Statistical Mechanic]

A former US federal prosecutor, Chuck Rosenberg, explained on a news program tonight how criminal investigators work with witnesses. He said that they talk to people who know a lot, they talk to people who know a little, they talk to people who don't know anything, and they talk to people who make stuff up. Their job is to look at it all and decide what to make of the totality of the witness testimonies.

Just sayin'.

[Statistical Mechanic]

Oh the places they will go to ... avoid discussing the witnesses they asked Nick for ...

[Darren Wilshak]

DH calls it for what it is, moronic nonsense and he's perfectly right.

[Statistical Mechanic]

your cherished beliefs.

Which are what?.

Ahem.

[montgomery]

Link for this testimony please. Also the dates when Rubinstein was in Treblinka.
This is a total crock. We have many witness testimonies to bodies being removed from the so-called showers.

Honestly unless you live in the tropics, open the window of your bathroom or shower room and look at the vapour escaping. Those witnesses are liars by the way but thank you for the source.

They've been pinned down and they know it. There's no way they can make excuses for all the lies and exaggerations on the holocaust and all the related issues. And if they try to do that they are going to end up with next to nothing. All that crap is inter-related in some way and one piece of bad evidence pulls down a couple of dozen others with it.

The simplest explanation is one they've all heard many times: No gas chambers, no holocaust. And they know they're damned close to having to let go of the whole gas chamber mythical legend.

Let em squeal and squak like a flock of old hens, it's them that are going to have to learn to live with themselves in their coup. To each his rightful place, eggs in the laying box.

[Balmoral95]

Link for this testimony please. Also the dates when Rubinstein was in Treblinka.
This is a total crock. We have many witness testimonies to bodies being removed from the so-called showers.

Honestly unless you live in the tropics, open the window of your bathroom or shower room and look at the vapour escaping. Those witnesses are liars by the way but thank you for the source.

They've been pinned down and they know it. There's no way they can make excuses for all the lies and exaggerations on the holocaust and all the related issues. And if they try to do that they are going to end up with next to nothing. All that crap is inter-related in some way and one piece of bad evidence pulls down a couple of dozen others with it.

The simplest explanation is one they've all heard many times: No gas chambers, no holocaust. And they know they're damned close to having to let go of the whole gas chamber mythical legend.

Let em squeal and squak like a flock of old hens, it's them that are going to have to learn to live with themselves in their coup. To each his rightful place, eggs in the laying box.

Had a little time out and a Hargis pill?