No queues into the kremas, aerial photos at Birkenau

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Re: No queues into the kremas, aerial photos at Birkenau

Post by VFX » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:20 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:So just link to any old post then - and point out the lie, idiot.

And while you're at, don't forget to post a link to something proving your false charge that I was kicked out of Rodoh.
I guess Depth Check worked his magic. Your last post was Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:28 pm. Did you leave before he banned you?

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Re: No queues into the kremas, aerial photos at Birkenau

Post by scrmbldggs » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:23 am

. :rotfl:
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Re: No queues into the kremas, aerial photos at Birkenau

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:30 am

VFX wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:So just link to any old post then - and point out the lie, idiot.

And while you're at, don't forget to post a link to something proving your false charge that I was kicked out of Rodoh.
I guess Depth Check worked his magic. Your last post was Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:28 pm. Did you leave before he banned you?
I told you how I left - and my account is still active. You are now descending into personal smears and deep conspiratorial lunacy.
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Re: No queues into the kremas, aerial photos at Birkenau

Post by VFX » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:32 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:You are now descending into personal smears and deep conspiratorial lunacy.
You have just descended. :lol: :lol:

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Re: No queues into the kremas, aerial photos at Birkenau

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:34 am

Your inability to produce anything showing I was banned is duly noted.

You, Smith and the gang need to come to terms with your irrelevancy. And stop projecting.
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Re: No queues into the kremas, aerial photos at Birkenau

Post by Nessie » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:51 am

VFX wrote:Thousand of people getting off a train are going to move. They are not just going to stand there. Movement from the disembarkation point to where they are processed and showered is inevitable. It is highly unlikely any showering would take place in a morgue. I want to see the photos not of a line or people near the train but going into Leichenkeller II.
I want to see an aerial version of this photo, which is a movie depiction of Krema II Birkenau.
Image
It should look something like this, which is a model depiction of Jews heading down to Leichenkeller II in Krema III Birkenau.
Image
I do not wish to see the arrival photos such as depicted below. These people were dispersed throughout the camp.
Image
That the people in the original photo were dispersed around the camp is why the film image and the model are not accurate representations of what did happen. It was not thousands of people were taken to the kremas at one go. Smaller groups moved about the camp, gathering either in the woods around kremas IV and V as shown in another original photo or gathered once inside the large undressing rooms of Kremas II and III.

On the rare occasion a plane flew over head and took a photo, it just so happens that at no time was the point a small group was seen going inside a kremas.

Now, remember my first point, that none of the photos show long lines of people leaving the camp. Your claim backfires as it disproves your belief.
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Re: No queues into the kremas, aerial photos at Birkenau

Post by Nessie » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:01 am

VFX has just trolled this thread and completely changed the topic to the claim the Soviets have the Jews who were not gassed. He has done that because he has realised there is a lot of evidence of people moving about the camp and to the gas chambers, but none of people leaving the camp. Yet again denial fails at the first hurdle. They cannot even evidence mass transports back out of the camp, let alone 10 months later the Soviets suddenly found c1000,000 plus Hungarian Jews an assimilated them.
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Re: No queues into the kremas, aerial photos at Birkenau

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:04 am

And to engage in personally defaming me. I might add. Ahem. ;)

Yeah, when VFX grasps that he’s cornered he changes the subject, resorts to dishonesty, or starts posting anti-Semitic comments out of his frustration.
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Re: No queues into the kremas, aerial photos at Birkenau

Post by VFX » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:14 am

Nessie wrote:
That the people in the original photo were dispersed around the camp is why the film image and the model are not accurate representations of what did happen.
Well Kelpie you are quite the "revisionist". You are saying that the IMPERIAL WAR MUSEUM, LONDON, has got it wrong then. War Museum
Image
Nessie wrote: It was not thousands of people were taken to the kremas at one go. Smaller groups moved about the camp, gathering either in the woods around kremas IV and V as shown in another original photo or gathered once inside the large undressing rooms of Kremas II and III.
So now you are telling your readers that the Jews slinked in the woods to hide from allied aircraft so the Germans could gas them. There were apparently no smaller groups according to your eyewitnesses.

Don Moore's article in the Sun-Herald: Article
"A train with 10,000 Jews from Hungry had just arrived. They had no place to put them. We were sent back to our barracks once again. They marched all 10,000 Hungarian Jews into the three gas chambers at Auschwitz and killed them all in 24 hours."

So yeah quite the revisionist you are Kelpie.

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Re: No queues into the kremas, aerial photos at Birkenau

Post by Darren Wilshak » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:16 am

It can shout down a drainpipe, not reading it.

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Re: No queues into the kremas, aerial photos at Birkenau

Post by Nessie » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:59 am

VFX wrote:
Nessie wrote:
That the people in the original photo were dispersed around the camp is why the film image and the model are not accurate representations of what did happen.
Well Kelpie you are quite the "revisionist". You are saying that the IMPERIAL WAR MUSEUM, LONDON, has got it wrong then. War Museum
Image
Yes, going by the aerial photos, the groups were not as large as that.
Nessie wrote: It was not thousands of people were taken to the kremas at one go. Smaller groups moved about the camp, gathering either in the woods around kremas IV and V as shown in another original photo or gathered once inside the large undressing rooms of Kremas II and III.
So now you are telling your readers that the Jews slinked in the woods to hide from allied aircraft so the Germans could gas them. There were apparently no smaller groups according to your eyewitnesses.

Don Moore's article in the Sun-Herald: Article
"A train with 10,000 Jews from Hungry had just arrived. They had no place to put them. We were sent back to our barracks once again. They marched all 10,000 Hungarian Jews into the three gas chambers at Auschwitz and killed them all in 24 hours."

So yeah quite the revisionist you are Kelpie.
Which proves my point. The large transports were split into smaller groups, kept waiting and then distributed between the various kremas each day. You have misread that to idiotically think 10,000 people were taken to the kremas all in one go.
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Re: No queues into the kremas, aerial photos at Birkenau

Post by VFX » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:03 am

Waiting in trees, all 2000 of them waiting to suck in the pure Hydrogen Cyanide. What patient people, patiently awaiting their own demise. No doubt they were reading novels, drinking beers with a few laughs while they watched the others go up in smoke. Don't you find your own lies a little far fetched flipper?

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Re: No queues into the kremas, aerial photos at Birkenau

Post by Nessie » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:14 am

VFX wrote:Waiting in trees, all 2000 of them waiting to suck in the pure Hydrogen Cyanide. What patient people, patiently awaiting their own demise. No doubt they were reading novels, drinking beers with a few laughs while they watched the others go up in smoke. Don't you find your own lies a little far fetched flipper?
The point is that it was not 2000. The trains were 1000 at a time. From each train a couple of hundred could be selected to work, see the figures here;

http://www.deathcamps.org/occupation/glaser.htm

So, say 200 hundred selected to work, that is 800 left to be divided between the four kremas and the Bunker II gas chambers. That is 160. So, at most a group would be a couple of hundred and from the photos, it did not appear the groups moving about the camp was as big as that.

No wonder you abuse, name calling and stupid comments are on the increase as yet again one of your claims is demolished.
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Re: No queues into the kremas, aerial photos at Birkenau

Post by Darren Wilshak » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:20 am

Yet more useless witter from the crank VFX.

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Re: No queues into the kremas, aerial photos at Birkenau

Post by VFX » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:21 am

Now flipper the eyewitness said 10 000 were gassed in 24 hours. You are the one who said eye witness testimony is paramount, now you are back pedaling fast. 2000 gassed at a time, the eyewitnesses claim... what is it then... are the eyewitnesses lying again flipper.

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Re: No queues into the kremas, aerial photos at Birkenau

Post by Darren Wilshak » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:28 am

From what I can see of the quoted text in the responses the denier makes to Nessie or SM or anyone its clear the guy is just a waste of time crank troll who mouths off because its run out of arguments.

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Re: No queues into the kremas, aerial photos at Birkenau

Post by VFX » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:31 am

Darren Wilshak wrote:From what I can see of the quoted text in the responses the denier makes to Nessie or SM or anyone its clear the guy is just a waste of time crank troll who mouths off because its run out of arguments.
Have not seen any clear arguments from you at all... just the normal mouthyness. Seems you need to F off TBH.
You contribute as much here as you do to your alleged loved ones no doubt. All talk no substance. :lol: :lol:
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Re: No queues into the kremas, aerial photos at Birkenau

Post by Darren Wilshak » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:32 am

It never takes long before they start acting up.

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Re: No queues into the kremas, aerial photos at Birkenau

Post by Darren Wilshak » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:35 am

As far as I was able to tell before I shut the stream of gibberish off, neither of them had posted anything that was even remotely interesting. So fair play to those who did engage with the abysmal twins.

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Re: No queues into the kremas, aerial photos at Birkenau

Post by VFX » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:36 am

Darren Wilshak wrote:As far as I was able to tell before I shut the stream of gibberish off, neither of them had posted anything that was even remotely interesting. So fair play to those who did engage with the abysmal twins.
It seems your greatest fan is your hand... move along please Darren

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Re: No queues into the kremas, aerial photos at Birkenau

Post by Nessie » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:59 am

VFX wrote:Now flipper the eyewitness said 10 000 were gassed in 24 hours. You are the one who said eye witness testimony is paramount, now you are back pedaling fast. 2000 gassed at a time, the eyewitnesses claim... what is it then... are the eyewitnesses lying again flipper.
Name, link to and quote the eye witness who worked at the kremas who said 10,000 were gassed in 24 hours.
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Re: No queues into the kremas, aerial photos at Birkenau

Post by scrmbldggs » Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:07 pm

That number doesn't seem far-fetched to me with 3 (or "divided between the four kremas and the Bunker II gas chambers") Kremas running full, ahem, steam. The killing itself didn't take all that long in packed chambers...
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Re: No queues into the kremas, aerial photos at Birkenau

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:41 pm

This is pertinent. From period of Hungarian transports:
Sergey_Romanov wrote:Based on Honey's estimates:
16th May 6369 5542 87,0%
17th May 3055 2536 83,0%
18th May 14083 11427 81,1%
19th May 9859 6591 66,9%
20th May 10123 5835 57,6%
21st May 15795 11905 75,4%
22nd May 12812 8819 68,8%
23rd May 12438 9662 77,7%
24th May 13112 8707 66,4%
25th May 15588 10745 68,9%
26th May 16074 10264 63,9%
27th May 15850 10116 63,8%
28th May 30633 22546 73,6%
30th May 7247 4767 65,8%
31st May 10022 6668 66,5%
1st June 16332 11627 71,2%
2nd June 12505 8649 69,2%
3rd June 12394 8399 67,8%
4th June 11539 7953 68,9%
5th June 8632 5984 69,3%
6th June 11343 7641 67,4%
7th June 10109 7133 70,6%
8th June 4459 3318 74,4%
9th June 3148 1974 62,7%
10th June 1163 814 70,0%
11th June 1447 756 52,2%
12th June 9114 8921 97,9%
13th June 8426 7729 91,7%
14th June 8911 7518 84,4%
15th June 10932 8601 78,7%
16th June 5507 4650 84,4%
17th June 10607 8622 81,3%
18th June 3160 2309 73,1%
26th June 3006 2470 82,2%
27th June 3199 2747 85,9%
28th June 3842 3838 99,9%
29th June 12316 10495 85,2%
1st July 7854 6655 84,7%
7th July 9258 7481 80,8%
8th July 12108 8797 72,7%
9th July 11427 9837 86,1%
10th July 12206 9878 80,9%
11th July 5003 3249 64,9%
22nd July 4390 3588 81,7%
25th July 3160 3156 99,9%
further discussion here: viewtopic.php?f=39&t=29506&start=40#p650450
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Re: No queues into the kremas, aerial photos at Birkenau

Post by Nessie » Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:34 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:That number doesn't seem far-fetched to me with 3 (or "divided between the four kremas and the Bunker II gas chambers") Kremas running full, ahem, steam. The killing itself didn't take all that long in packed chambers...
OK, take one day, 27th May. That has 15850 arrived and 10116 gassed. Based on the list of selections to work, there were 5 trains arrived that day, so 2023 per train went to the four kremas and the bunker. That is 405 per gas chamber, 5 times each day.
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Re: No queues into the kremas, aerial photos at Birkenau

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:44 pm

Some time ago I attended a lecture by Gideon Greif, who has studied the Birkenau Sonderkommando for decades; in the lecture he outlined the steps of the extermination process in Kremas II/III in some detail. Greif commented during this exposition that for example 2,500 people could be packed into an undressing room and that customarily they would be brought to the murder installations in three or four groups, giving about 625 people per group, rather than in a single column.

(my flight today was canceled so, not traveling after all, I guess I can use the wait time to hammer out some responses to issues in recent threads . . . )
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Re: No queues into the kremas, aerial photos at Birkenau

Post by scrmbldggs » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:13 pm

And let's not forget the children. Their large numbers and small size would have considerable impact. As the fact that most others were women or sick/elderly, too.
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Re: No queues into the kremas, aerial photos at Birkenau

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:23 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
VFX wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:So just link to any old post then - and point out the lie, idiot.

And while you're at, don't forget to post a link to something proving your false charge that I was kicked out of Rodoh.
I guess Depth Check worked his magic. Your last post was Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:28 pm. Did you leave before he banned you?
I told you how I left - and my account is still active. You are now descending into personal smears and deep conspiratorial lunacy.
Curious, this, from late June 2014 - and I don't mean the tell-tale Traynor crappy Photoshop:

Image

Again, VFX is caught blatantly lying.
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Re: No queues into the kremas, aerial photos at Birkenau

Post by Nessie » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:26 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Some time ago I attended a lecture by Gideon Greif, who has studied the Birkenau Sonderkommando for decades; in the lecture he outlined the steps of the extermination process in Kremas II/III in some detail. Greif commented during this exposition that for example 2,500 people could be packed into an undressing room and that customarily they would be brought to the murder installations in three or four groups, giving about 625 people per group, rather than in a single column.

(my flight today was canceled so, not traveling after all, I guess I can use the wait time to hammer out some responses to issues in recent threads . . . )
The per group is what has shown up in the aerial photos as being smaller than I had been lead to believe. But, thinking about the security issues of having so many people moving about the camp, even 4 to 600 is a lot to move in one go.
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Re: No queues into the kremas, aerial photos at Birkenau

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:30 pm

"It was still at the stage of clubs and fists, hurrah, tala"

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Re: No queues into the kremas, aerial photos at Birkenau

Post by Nessie » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:31 pm

I think that this series of images, of prisoners entering a barracks (lower left), shows how quickly people can be marched into a building;

Image

Think how fast the plane was moving and how long between each image and they must be going at a fair pace. Irrespective of there being elderly people and children, this is the point people are being driven to their deaths and so they will be forced to move as fast as possible.
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Re: No queues into the kremas, aerial photos at Birkenau

Post by Darren Wilshak » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:33 pm

On Traynor, at least his pshop skills have gone up a notch from 2014.

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Re: No queues into the kremas, aerial photos at Birkenau

Post by VFX » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:50 pm

Nessie wrote:I this is the point people are being driven to their deaths and so they will be forced to move as fast as possible.
You see a line of people, in a photo heading down a path to an unknown destination and make a conclusion of mass murder. Seriously that is quite a leap. A few years after that photo was taken most of them were home drinking tea and eating sausage with bread.

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Re: No queues into the kremas, aerial photos at Birkenau

Post by montgomery » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:52 pm

Nessie wrote:I think that this series of images, of prisoners entering a barracks (lower left), shows how quickly people can be marched into a building;

Image

Think how fast the plane was moving and how long between each image and they must be going at a fair pace. Irrespective of there being elderly people and children, this is the point people are being driven to their deaths and so they will be forced to move as fast as possible.
Can you explain the point you're making? People can run but some people can't. I think I can imagine how fast or slowly people can be taken into a barracks. And also imagine how much warning they would have been given by the air raid alarms. It's also dependent on the number of people.

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Re: No queues into the kremas, aerial photos at Birkenau

Post by scrmbldggs » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:07 pm

And on the number of guards and their weapons...
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Re: No queues into the kremas, aerial photos at Birkenau

Post by VFX » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:10 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:And on the number of guards and their weapons...
This was a German Konzentrationslager, not a US Prison. There were no need for guards. According to Flipper, the people walked under the trees out of the glaring sun to drink bier and waiting to be gassed all in great spirits and good humour.

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Re: No queues into the kremas, aerial photos at Birkenau

Post by montgomery » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:13 pm

VFX wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:And on the number of guards and their weapons...
This was a German Konzentrationslager, not a US Prison. There were no need for guards. According to Flipper, the people walked under the trees out of the glaring sun to drink bier and waiting to be gassed all in great spirits and good humour.
Who is Flipper? Is that another name for eggs?

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Re: No queues into the kremas, aerial photos at Birkenau

Post by scrmbldggs » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:13 pm

montgomery wrote:
VFX wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:And on the number of guards and their weapons...
This was a German Konzentrationslager, not a US Prison. There were no need for guards. According to Flipper, the people walked under the trees out of the glaring sun to drink bier and waiting to be gassed all in great spirits and good humour.
Who is Flipper? Is that another name for eggs?
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Re: No queues into the kremas, aerial photos at Birkenau

Post by Nessie » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:29 pm

VFX wrote:
Nessie wrote:I this is the point people are being driven to their deaths and so they will be forced to move as fast as possible.
You see a line of people, in a photo heading down a path to an unknown destination
To kremas IV and V. There is a fence all around where they are heading to. The kremas are the only destinations.
and make a conclusion of mass murder. Seriously that is quite a leap.
The mass murder conclusion is not from the photos, it is from documentary and witness evidence.
A few years after that photo was taken most of them were home drinking tea and eating sausage with bread.
But you cannot even evidence they left Birkenau. Otherwise, there would be long lines of people leaving the camp.......
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Re: No queues into the kremas, aerial photos at Birkenau

Post by VFX » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:43 pm

Nessie wrote:
The mass murder conclusion is not from the photos, it is from documentary and witness evidence.
Please link up the time and date of the photo, with the IDs of the alleged victims and the signed affidavits of the eyewitnesses testifying to that moment of time when genocide took place.
But you cannot even evidence they left Birkenau. Otherwise, there would be long lines of people leaving the camp.......
You are well aware that people came to and from Birkenau via transports. Your Dutch witnesses have spoken of that. Why on earth would you think people walk hundreds of km when they can catch a nice train.

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Re: No queues into the kremas, aerial photos at Birkenau

Post by Darren Wilshak » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:45 pm

Deniers hung up on photos again? It doesn't believe its own lies, does it?