The Action Reinhard Camps

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The Action Reinhard Camps

Post by montgomery » Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:50 am

I'll post this link here as an easy place from which to reference it.
http://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/08-t.pdf

I'm sure all our resident experts have read this so it won't be anything new to them. But I would also like to use this reference to ask questions of forum members.

And so to begin with, are Grossman and other witnesses being quoted correctly. It seems that if so, then they are telling some real whoppers! And of course it's also possible that they are just liars and exaggerators being falsely quoted by the H.D. side. In other words, why bother to read the entire piece if it's going to be claimed that these people are false witnesses. But if they are supposed reliable witnesses, then there's a he-- of a lot of explaining to be done!

Then of course, some could be accepted as true witnesses and some others could be accepted as the L's and the E's. (liars and exaggerators) I'll need some opinions to sort them out.

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Re: The Action Reinhard Camps

Post by montgomery » Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:52 am

Steam ovens were the principle method used??

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Re: The Action Reinhard Camps

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:01 am

"It was still at the stage of clubs and fists, hurrah, tala"

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Re: The Action Reinhard Camps

Post by VFX » Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:30 am

Although his knowledge was hearsay, Rabinowicz understood that the victims at Treblinka were murdered by gas); Lewin heard from Rabinowicz that “simple vapour (steam)” was used to kill. source

Simple mistake of course it was. Perhaps these are as well.
The American, Soviet, British, and American prosecutors burdened the Germans and their leaders at the Nuremberg trials with the following along with killing about six million Jews:

vaporizing 20,000Jews near Auschwitz with "atomic energy";

killing 840,000 Russian POW's at Sachsenhausen concentration camp (in one month, withspecial pedal-driven brain-bashing machines, no less), then disposing of them in mobile [sic] crematoria;

torturing and killing Jewish prisoners to the tempo of a specially composed "Tango of Death"in Lvov;

steamingJews to death like lobsters at Treblinka;

electrocuting them en masse at Belzec;

making not only lampshades and soap but also handbags, driving gloves, book bindings, saddles, riding breeches, gloves, house slippers, etc. from the remains of their victims;

killing prisoners and concentration camp inmates for everything from having armpit hair to soiled underclothing?

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Re: The Action Reinhard Camps

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:35 am

Along with your misunderstanding of legal process and postwar trials you certainly have your straw men! Which makes me wonder which scholars in the list I posted in the Jewish Conspiracies thread “promote” which items on your list?
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Re: The Action Reinhard Camps

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:51 am

VFX wrote:steamingJews to death like lobsters at Treblinka;
Leaving aside the "cute" lobsters reference - the crack of an anti-Semitic crank - I fail to see where any of this gets you.

First, you yourself have posted that many of the early witnesses couldn't see what was going on inside the gas chambers, so they didn't know exactly - certainly not what painstaking research shows but also what later witnesses could learn - and some made guesses. But a number of these same early witnesses could observe the process, with the gas chambers as black boxes: they could see crowds of people shoved in, they could observe a pause, and they could observe or be part of the process of removing corpses from the "black boxes." What they saw, thus, was a murder process, without knowing all the particular. (This was the case with Wiernik's writing about Treblinka, for example.)

Second, as to the Treblinka "steam" foolishness, from the Jansson link above,
Out of 83 Treblinka testimonies from camp survivors, I have been able to identify references to method of death in about half (number=43).[95]

36 witnesses reported murder by means of gas only
1 reported steam only (Gutman)
2 reported gas and/or steam (Krzepicki, Rabinowicz)
1 reported gas or electricity (Bund report, presumably U. Wallach)
3 reported some combination of gas with air pumped out, chlorine, ether, or Zyklon B (A Kon, S. Rajzman, S Goldberg)
And:
- Every single report of “steam” killings comes from the pre-Stangl period in the camp, that is, from a Jew deported to the camp during July and August 1942. The witnesses show a good deal of variation, two of them mentioning multiple methods, during this time. Looking at reports from prisoners from this period, ignoring escape date, we see that 2 mentioned both gas and steam (Krzepicki, Rabinowicz), 1 mentioned steam (Gutman), the Bund report mentioned gas and electricity, and 5 witnesses didn't say.
- Conversely, none of the “eyewitness” reports in the sample for those brought to Treblinka after August 1942 mentioned steam as the method of killing. Escapees from the camp from September 1942 onwards generally identified gas chambers as where the murders occurred.[96] The only mention of steam made after fall-winter 1942 in the sample came from Gutman, an August 1942 escapee, in his 1947 testimony.
- Every prisoner in the sample who escaped during the revolt in August 1943 and who mentioned a killing method (sample=29) referred to gas chambers; every prisoner in the sample who was assigned to the upper, or death, camp (sample=10, excluding Krzepicki from the sample) gave gas chambers as the method of killing.
- The obvious conclusion is that “steam murder” circulated as a rumor only during the chaotic Eberl period, in the opening weeks of Treblinka’s existence, when workers from the work squads were routinely executed in selections. As prisoners gained experience in the camp, and Kommando membership stabilized, the means of killing became clearer to prisoners and rumors were tamped down.
Why do you repeat such asinine conceits?
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Re: The Action Reinhard Camps

Post by VFX » Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:55 am

This crap was given to the Nuremberg Judges. No you lot are trying to squirm out of it. How incredibly dumb.

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Re: The Action Reinhard Camps

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:01 am

Charges and claims are not legal findings. The HC piece explains how the erroneous charge of steam made its way forward - you fail to admit here that the Nuremberg tribunal didn't mention "steaming" to death in its judgment. In fact, what the judgment states about Treblinka is what we now understand, not what the Polish government charged at the time, "all who were not fit to work were destroyed in gas chambers and their bodies burnt. Certain concentration camps such as Treblinka and Auschwitz were set aside for this main purpose." Note that the judgment said "gas chambers," not steamed to death like lobsters. It never mentioned "steam."

That said, the judgment made a glaring mistake about Treblinka, stating that it was part of the KL system.

You really need to step up your game, Nazi boy.
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Re: The Action Reinhard Camps

Post by VFX » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:11 am

Well ahead of you. It is irrelevant that the Tribunal discarded it, the fact that eyewitnesses gave it shows the total lies put forward by a prosecution. As mentioned this goes along with the Soap, the Shrunken heads, lampshades and all that crap that was still believed until recently. Basically it is all full of {!#%@}, just like the head knocking machine.

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Re: The Action Reinhard Camps

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:25 am

VFX wrote:Well ahead of you. It is irrelevant that the Tribunal discarded it, the fact that eyewitnesses gave it shows the total lies put forward by a prosecution.
No, I just informed you of something, and now you're scrambling. And, no, it shows that one government, the Polish government, made a mistake. And, finally, this is why we have trials, to sort out what happened and if anyone is legally culpable. You seem to be describing a process at Nuremberg that worked, which I know is not your intention. Keep going, the own goals are fun!
VFX wrote:As mentioned this goes along with the Soap, the Shrunken heads, lampshades and all that crap that was still believed until recently. Basically it is all full of {!#%@}, just like the head knocking machine.
In a way, you've finally stumbled on a valid point: all this, much of it dealt with decades ago, isn't core to understanding the Holocaust. These points of obsession for deniers don't constitute the evidence for the mass murder of Jews, especially since some of it (shrunken heads) has nothing to do with the mass murder of Jews.

Here is Sergey Romanov's recent debunking of the debunking: http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... -skin.html

You remain on your back foot, guppy.

And really, I see you are dodging the point I made that, even if some witnesses couldn't discern the murder method, they described enough of a murder process at Treblinka to understand that people were being killed in large numbers in the "black boxes."
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Re: The Action Reinhard Camps

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:26 am

You are also dodging this question:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Along with your misunderstanding of legal process and postwar trials you certainly have your straw men! Which makes me wonder which scholars in the list I posted in the Jewish Conspiracies thread “promote” which items on your list?
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Re: The Action Reinhard Camps

Post by VFX » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:30 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote: they described enough of a murder process at Treblinka to understand that people were being killed in large numbers in the "black boxes."
What they described is fallacious. Without your witnesses what else have you got? Treblinka was most likely a hospital as well. It was the sick and elderly that got off those trains assisted by orderlies and guards, in a humane caring fashion.
Maybe they did have steam saunas there?

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Re: The Action Reinhard Camps

Post by VFX » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:34 am

vaporizing 20,000Jews near Auschwitz with "atomic energy";

killing 840,000 Russian POW's at Sachsenhausen concentration camp (in one month, withspecial pedal-driven brain-bashing machines, no less), then disposing of them in mobile [sic] crematoria;

torturing and killing Jewish prisoners to the tempo of a specially composed "Tango of Death"in Lvov;

steamingJews to death like lobsters at Treblinka;

electrocuting them en masse at Belzec;

making not only lampshades and soap but also handbags, driving gloves, book bindings, saddles, riding breeches, gloves, house slippers, etc. from the remains of their victims;

killing prisoners and concentration camp inmates for everything from having armpit hair to soiled underclothing?

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha you believe it all you bunch of clowns. I gotta give more on the head knocker, I love this one.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: The Action Reinhard Camps

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:36 am

VFX wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote: they described enough of a murder process at Treblinka to understand that people were being killed in large numbers in the "black boxes."
What they described is fallacious. Without your witnesses what else have you got? Treblinka was most likely a hospital as well. It was the sick and elderly that got off those trains assisted by orderlies and guards, in a humane caring fashion.
Maybe they did have steam saunas there?
More gibberish. "What they described is fallacious" is your best? Really?

And, no, we have train records and other documents, archeological findings, both victim and perpetrator eyewitnesses. We have decent enough records that ghettos and towns were emptied of Jews and taken to the AR camps, we have dates and approximate numbers for most of these actions, we have however as Nessie has shown you no record of 100s or 1000s of these people after they went into the camps. So your "theory" has to accommodate, at tiny Treblinka alone, nearly 800,000 patients, since none were sent on . . . your 'theory" is a joke.
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Re: The Action Reinhard Camps

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:36 am

VFX wrote:vaporizing 20,000Jews near Auschwitz with "atomic energy";

killing 840,000 Russian POW's at Sachsenhausen concentration camp (in one month, withspecial pedal-driven brain-bashing machines, no less), then disposing of them in mobile [sic] crematoria;

torturing and killing Jewish prisoners to the tempo of a specially composed "Tango of Death"in Lvov;

steamingJews to death like lobsters at Treblinka;

electrocuting them en masse at Belzec;

making not only lampshades and soap but also handbags, driving gloves, book bindings, saddles, riding breeches, gloves, house slippers, etc. from the remains of their victims;

killing prisoners and concentration camp inmates for everything from having armpit hair to soiled underclothing?

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha you believe it all you bunch of clowns. I gotta give more on the head knocker, I love this one.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
This is the pinnacle of your intellectual ability and debating style. Because . . . you can't . . . refute . . . anything . . . Sergey Romanov has written.
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Re: The Action Reinhard Camps

Post by VFX » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:40 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
VFX wrote:vaporizing 20,000Jews near Auschwitz with "atomic energy";

Because . . . you can't . . . refute . . . anything . . . Sergey Romanov has written.
Can you explain this assertion please to the world. We will deal with one at a time. Did Heisenberg have anything to do with this; Did they need heavy water in their Jew Zapper? So were they zapped by heat, xrays, alpha particle, neutrons, beta particles or some other ionizing radiation. We they microwaved? Please explain to your fans how this was done.

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Re: The Action Reinhard Camps

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:43 am

Nope, because Romanov didn’t support this and I know of no one who sees that as valid; I asked you about what Romanov wrote, not your own obsessions
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Re: The Action Reinhard Camps

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:45 am

Please stop evading:

You were asked to refute Romanov’s article, which you mocked. Changing the topic doesn’t provide us your reasoning.
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Re: The Action Reinhard Camps

Post by VFX » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:12 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Please stop evading:

You were asked to refute Romanov’s article, which you mocked. Changing the topic doesn’t provide us your reasoning.
At the moment I do not care about Romanov, or indeed Nikolai and Alexandra. I want others to explain to me how the atomic Jew Blaster worked: a ray gun. Awesome. I gotta get one.
Image

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Re: The Action Reinhard Camps

Post by VFX » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:23 am

Perhaps one of the geniuses here could help clear up this little dilemma. The Atomic Jew Blaster can wait for now.
Raul Hilberg who wrote three volumes on the Einsatz camps called The Destruction of the European Jews says this.
There were no "selections"made at the three Operation Reinhard camps,(Treblinka,SobiborBelzec and Chelmno ) All the Jews who were sent to these camps, with the exception of a few who escaped, were immediately killed in gas chambers. There were no records kept of their deaths...Raul Hilberg Reinhart Camps
Now let us look at some of those Dutch survivors again here Sobibor Survivors

Alex Cohen stated in 1947. The men wereimmediately separated from the women and children. The camp SS called out they needed workers and Cohen volunteered as a metal worker. He and the other selectedmen were herded back onto the train and transported to the Lublin-Majdanek camp. In the meantime the other prisoners had been led into Sobibor.

Judith Eliazar and Bertha Ensel Westerbork toSobiborin East Poland. They were there for only a brief period. ‘We were selected; 30 girls and 44 men were removed from the transport,’

Sophia Huisman. Upon arrival some thirty young women and a similar number of men were selectedfor work elsewhere. ‘Camp Sobiborwas an extermination camp,’

Ursula Sternbut first they were to bathe’. Ursula and the others who hadbeen selected to work in the camp waited for half an hour and were then brought into the camp. Sobibor. On arrival dozens of girls and men were selected, as usual, to work in the camp. ‘We were selected right away,’ Ursula stated in 1947. The elderly and disabled were immediately hauled on to tippers and removed,

I think one may see the dilemma here, if you could explain why the author says no selections and yet all of these alleged witness clearly say there were. Explain this and tell me about the Gamma Ray Jew Blaster later.

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Re: The Action Reinhard Camps

Post by Darren Wilshak » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:57 am

Why do you even bother engaging with him and his' most probably.'

He's set out to prove a load of crap by wheeling whatever rubbish he can fish out of the dustbin whilst pretending to be knowledgeable. All of it has been dealt with endless numerous times.

I mean you don't say VFX that Hilberg wrote a three volume work? Wow.

What a shower they both are, they need to go back to baby nursery Naziland and Hargis where they truly belong.
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Re: The Action Reinhard Camps

Post by Darren Wilshak » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:58 am

Pair of children. Using the usual unfunny mockery that they seem to think is so hilarious, as if we haven't seen their BS observations 10,000 times before? They are well on the way to a guest spot in incoherent hystery and who flaming cares anyway.

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Re: The Action Reinhard Camps

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:07 am

VFX wrote:Perhaps one of the geniuses here could help clear up this little dilemma. The Atomic Jew Blaster can wait for now.
Raul Hilberg who wrote three volumes on the Einsatz camps called The Destruction of the European Jews says this.
There were no "selections"made at the three Operation Reinhard camps,(Treblinka,SobiborBelzec and Chelmno ) All the Jews who were sent to these camps, with the exception of a few who escaped, were immediately killed in gas chambers. There were no records kept of their deaths...Raul Hilberg Reinhart Camps
Now let us look at some of those Dutch survivors again here Sobibor Survivors
You've done this before, misrepresenting what people have written. The quotation in your post is from the Scrapbookpages blog, not Hilberg. If I am wrong, post a reference or link to where Hilberg wrote what you claim he "says."

There were exceptions to the general practice - the general practice is explained by Hilberg - which have been noted since the 1965 Düsseldorf trial, IIRC even before then. In this forum, the issue has been covered at great length in this thread, "Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof".

You should give this one up, junior, you're coming off as both illiterate and foot-stompin' intransigent - in the face of the facts.
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Re: The Action Reinhard Camps

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:10 am

Darren Wilshak wrote:Why do you even bother engaging with him and his' most probably.'

He's set out to prove a load of crap by wheeling whatever rubbish he can fish out of the dustbin whilst pretending to be knowledgeable. All of it has been dealt with endless numerous times.

I mean you don't say VFX that Hilberg wrote a three volume work? Wow.

What a shower they both are, they need to go back to baby nursery Naziland and Hargis where they truly belong.
Here is big boys stuff, trolls. Big boys stuff.
True. I am close to disengaging for sure ... but people keep quoting this pair and I can't help myself when I see such drivel and get drawn back in . . . LOL . . .
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Re: The Action Reinhard Camps

Post by VFX » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:14 am

Explain please the inconsistencies. If the scrapbook pages are wrong and there is a link to it, then explain to the world how they are wrong. So the excuse is exceptions to the general practice: how convenient. All those eyewitnesses just happened to notice exceptions to the general practice. As said both stories are mutually exclusive. You have no facts, just lies and trumped up rhetoric. Try being honest for once. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: The Action Reinhard Camps

Post by VFX » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:16 am

Darren Wilshak wrote:Pair of children. Using the usual unfunny mockery that they seem to think is so hilarious, as if we haven't seen their BS observations 10,000 times before? They are well on the way to a guest spot in incoherent hystery and who flaming cares anyway.
We have seen your BS a million times before. To date I have seen you add nothing except stupid remarks.. If you have nothing to add then say nothing and crawl back under your rock.

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Re: The Action Reinhard Camps

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:17 am

VFX wrote:The Atomic Jew Blaster can wait for now.
As well you should ... it's a losing gambit for you.

In 2008 or 2009 already I wrote a reply in the old Rodoh to someone trying to use this nonsense:
Which is why we have trials and historians and that lot--to investigate claims, separate wheat from chaff, put statements and events into context. It would be a rare
trial that did not have entered into its record false or misleading statements. I am sure you noticed (but forgot to point out) in the transcript, which I thank you for linking, that in his very next question Jackson surmised that the rumor he cited was essentially a bit of NS propaganda planted to boost morale by promising new, secret weapons and nothing more.
the point is the story originated from somewhere
No, the point of that exchange is that the nature of the story, wherever it originated (and both prosecutor and defendant seem to agree it was with the Reich, during the final phase of the war) was quickly sussed out, and the story was a non-starter. . . . It was a Third Reich ruse that Jackson was replaying for the defendant, to explore issues around the weapons development program and Speer's knowledge of them.
How this helps denial is something that only deniers can "feel."
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Re: The Action Reinhard Camps

Post by VFX » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:19 am

Tell us about the Secret Atomic Jew Blaster then. Not secret weapons. I am not sure if you are reading the right information here. Can you read?

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Re: The Action Reinhard Camps

Post by VFX » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:22 am

Darren Wilshak wrote: Here is big boys stuff, trolls. Big boys stuff.
That is somewhat elusive. So you are a big boy: well size doesn't matter, you may loose a few kg. The weight certainly does not shine through your intellect. Just sayin.

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Re: The Action Reinhard Camps

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:24 am

VFX wrote:Tell us about the Secret Atomic Jew Blaster then. Not secret weapons. I am not sure if you are reading the right information here. Can you read?
My response was to a post about the "the atomic 20,000 Jew incinerator"; it's the same silly thing you brought up.
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Re: The Action Reinhard Camps

Post by VFX » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:27 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
VFX wrote:Tell us about the Secret Atomic Jew Blaster then. Not secret weapons. I am not sure if you are reading the right information here. Can you read?
My response was to a post about the "the atomic 20,000 Jew incinerator"; it's the same silly thing you brought up.
Well what happened to them, they were not gassed so did they need incineration afterwards? Not being familiar with Nuclear Physics, radiation and half life, all that stuff...I am just curious why they did not continue with the blasters. I mean if they work why put them away. The good side is that I guess you could roast chickens etc pretty quickly aye.

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Re: The Action Reinhard Camps

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:29 am

VFX wrote:Explain please the inconsistencies. If the scrapbook pages are wrong and there is a link to it, then explain to the world how they are wrong. You are no longer making any sense.
Here is the a screen capture from Scrapbook pages:

Image

The sentences you attributed to Hilberg were written by the author of the Scrapbookpages article. When she quotes something, she sets it off and italicizes it. Your continued lack of command of basic research and writing conventions is actually astonishing. What I am now used to is your shameless and blatant dishonesty.

You quoted the passage, you wrote that Hilberg "says" it, so you now show us where - or you stand busted a second time for misrepresentation.
VFX wrote:So the excuse is exceptions to the general practice: how convenient.
Neither an excuse nor convenient but part of the record - and part of the context you cannot comprehend. A small number of transports, those you are discussing, had some of those brought to Sobibor selected out for labor. This was not the general practice. Simple. And long since known.
VFX wrote:All those eyewitnesses just happened to notice exceptions to the general practice.
You cited 4. And, yes, survivors tended to come from, er, groups that survived, not the vast majority who were gassed. Again. Simple.
VFX wrote:As said both stories are mutually exclusive.
How is it mutually exclusive to have two or more processes going on? You mean like, someone killing Person A after robbing him but only robbing Person B would be, er, mutually exclusive?
VFX wrote:You have no facts, just lies and trumped up rhetoric. Try being honest for once. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I've linked you to further evidence and sources and your reply was "Green Eggs and Ham."
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:31 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: The Action Reinhard Camps

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:30 am

VFX wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
VFX wrote:Tell us about the Secret Atomic Jew Blaster then. Not secret weapons. I am not sure if you are reading the right information here. Can you read?
My response was to a post about the "the atomic 20,000 Jew incinerator"; it's the same silly thing you brought up.
Well what happened to them, they were not gassed so did they need incineration afterwards? Not being familiar with Nuclear Physics, radiation and half life, all that stuff...I am just curious why they did not continue with the blasters. I mean if they work why put them away. The good side is that I guess you could roast chickens etc pretty quickly aye.
Read what I wrote above - nothing happened to them, they were thought never to have existed. Wow, are you dumb.
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Re: The Action Reinhard Camps

Post by Nessie » Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:06 pm

montgomery wrote:I'll post this link here as an easy place from which to reference it.
http://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/08-t.pdf

I'm sure all our resident experts have read this so it won't be anything new to them. But I would also like to use this reference to ask questions of forum members.

And so to begin with, are Grossman and other witnesses being quoted correctly.
Grossman was not a witness.
It seems that if so, then they are telling some real whoppers! And of course it's also possible that they are just liars and exaggerators being falsely quoted by the H.D. side. In other words, why bother to read the entire piece if it's going to be claimed that these people are false witnesses. But if they are supposed reliable witnesses, then there's a he-- of a lot of explaining to be done!

Then of course, some could be accepted as true witnesses and some others could be accepted as the L's and the E's. (liars and exaggerators) I'll need some opinions to sort them out.
You need to first read Mattogno's book and for each person, he quotes determine were they;

A - a witness who worked at the gas chambers
B - a witness who worked elsewhere in the camp and was never at the gas chambers or only saw them from a distance
C - a person repeating what they heard another say
D - a journalist reporting on what happened

Once you do that you then need to compare and contrast each group. What you will find, as mentioned in a previous post, is that the most consistent evidence is from group A who all report gas was used. As you go through groups B to D the reports are less consistent, which is hardly surprising because they were not there and they based what they said on rumours, second-hand information and hearsay. Grossman was in group D, he was a journalist.
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Re: The Action Reinhard Camps

Post by VFX » Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:12 pm

So now YOU accept Mattogno, now that would be a first. There are no credible eyewitnesses Nessie. If there were none of this debate would be going on. Honestly if the evil Nazis did it I would be the first to throw em under a bus. Too many gaps, inconsistencies, downright lies. In fact I think you have just made a Denier out of Monty lol... before he was just interested but now i think he thinks most of what you and the arrogant one says is utter BS.

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Re: The Action Reinhard Camps

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:52 pm

No credible eyewitnesses? Have you read all their testimonies then? Why can’t you answer what I asked you about Münzberger? Would it disrupt your random post generator?
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Re: The Action Reinhard Camps

Post by VFX » Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:58 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:No credible eyewitnesses? Have you read all their testimonies then? Why can’t you answer what I asked you about Münzberger? Would it disrupt your random post generator?
Who was talking to you big nose. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: The Action Reinhard Camps

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:00 pm

It would spare us all your reading your insults if you would just answer what you’ve been asked. I get it, you haven’t read the testimonies, and you aren’t quite sure who Münzberger is, but this doesn’t stop you from mocking the witnesses and making blanket statements about their testimonies. No one, not even you, thinks that your method is credible.
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Re: The Action Reinhard Camps

Post by Nessie » Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:01 pm

VFX wrote:So now YOU accept Mattogno, now that would be a first.
I accept the documents and evidence he has found. I do not accept his conclusions from that evidence.
There are no credible eyewitnesses Nessie.
Mere opinon.
If there were none of this debate would be going on. Honestly if the evil Nazis did it I would be the first to throw em under a bus. Too many gaps, inconsistencies, downright lies. In fact I think you have just made a Denier out of Monty lol... before he was just interested but now i think he thinks most of what you and the arrogant one says is utter BS.
The actual eye witnesses to the gassings, they all agree gas was used and deniers pick up on minor inconsistencies and claim lies, which flies against common knowledge of witnesses. If they all said exactly the same thing, collusion would be suspected. They saw events slightly differently, remembered different parts when questioned by different people at different times, it is hardly surprising that they are at times inconsistent.
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Re: The Action Reinhard Camps

Post by VFX » Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:10 pm

Inconsistent to the point of incredulity. They seemed quite specific about events they could not have witnessed for a secret operation. This is why it is BS: this was a true secret extermination project, they would not just dump of a few old people to be holocausted and then others move on. No one would know a thing. Why go through the gassing crap, as there were supposedly enough psychopaths in the SS, then just let them walk into a room and cut their throat one by one like they used to do with sheep in abattoirs until recently. In the 1969s South Africa killed 30 million sheep a year by this method. Jew are no different really or anyone.