The Holocaust couldn't have happened without WW2

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Aaron Richards
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The Holocaust couldn't have happened without WW2

Post by Aaron Richards » Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:14 am

I'm making this thread to see if for other people on this forum, in their years of extensive reading and research on the topic, has taken them towards a similar conclusion or if they disagree.

It is my belief, that contrary to one of the main pillars of revisionism ("the holocaust happening during the chaos of war? preposterous! resources were needed at the frontlines!" etc), that the World War actually gave the Nazis the ideological casus belli and moral justification to exterminate the Jewish populace in Europe.

You have to understand that we're dealing with a party that often liked to call itself a "Weltanschauungspartei", an ideologically-driven party built around a specific world-view: that of the German Volk's right to Blood and Soil. They always saw the Jewish people as not one of their own, thus concluded they can't be native to Germany, nor loyal to any other nation, as they did not even have a nation of their own and yet were present in many nations, in the West often being over-achievers, disproportionately over-represented in fields of work that can be considered the "brain" of a country. The Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union was also ideologically fueled (hence breaking the non-aggression pact), partly driven by fear that the Soviet Union was planning a pre-emptive strike, but mostly with the goal of ending what they believed to be Jewish Bolshevism having taken control over a nation. They called this war of annihilation a "Weltanschauungskrieg", an ideological war where two world-views clashed: that of fascism, and that of democracy in bed with bolshevism. A defeat of Germany they equated with the defeat of Europe, and as a consequence the continent being run over by "asiatische Horden" and the "Untermenschentum", hordes of "asiatic subhumans".

Hitler and pals were firmly convinced that the war was started by International Jewry, the puppeteers of Churchill, FDR, etc. in democratic nations on one side, and "Jews in the Kremlin" on the other. This is made evident by various public speeches by Hitler and Goebbels.

A party that had been campaigning against Jews from the end of WW1, blaming them for the defeat ("Dolchstosslegende"), blaming them for the Treaty of Versailles, blaming them for the inflation, blaming them for "degeneracy" in the Weimar Republic, dehumanizing them step-by-step, boycotts in 1933, Nuremberg race laws in 1935, Kristallnacht in 1938, removing their right of citizenship, removing them from economic life, seizing their property en masse but never having the guts to kill them en masse.

Hence we have all these documents about "Jewish resettlement". As a functionalist myself, I am convinced that until some point, Hitler's priority really was simply evicting Jews out of Germany en masse, even if he secretly might have wished to kill them, he was of the opinion that actual genocide was not realistically achievable. Hence the Haavara Agreement, and how Jewish organizations initially worked together with the NSDAP to ease emigration of their coreligionists.

Then the World War happened, and hundreds of thousands of Germans started dying on the frontlines. In several speeches Hitler calls for the "Eye for an Eye" law (which he believes is from the old testament) should be applied on the Jews themselves.

And then you have the logistics of war making the utopian Madagascar Plan (shipping millions of people to a tropical island with horrible infrastructure at the time would have been a death sentence to begin with, but that's a different discussion) fail as the Vichy French fleet was sunk at Mers-el-Kebir by the British.

And when Operation Barbarossa turned sour, and the frontlines stagnated, and slowly started receding, and America became part of the war in Dec 1941, it is only logical that these factors sealed the fate of the millions of Jews trapped in the Generalgouvernement in occupied Poland.

If Hitler's idea had been "for every German killed on the battlefield, I'll kill a Jew", and especially when viewed in the CONTEXT of the time back then, when the world was at war, and tens of thousands of people were dying on the weekly, when large scale destruction had become the norm, thousands of lbs of bombs being dropped over civilian centers, it makes perfect sense for a "civilized" nation to resort to this ultimate act of barbarism, which even a regime of hatred would have balked at undertaking during peacetime.
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Re: The Holocaust couldn't have happened without WW2

Post by VFX » Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:05 am

Aaron Richards wrote:I'm making this thread to see if for other people on this forum, in their years of extensive reading and research on the topic, has taken them towards a similar conclusion or if they disagree.
Good post, but which holocaust are you speaking of? the alleged Shoah or the Russian Patriotic War. 1 million against 30 million and we ask for evidence that you are not biased? Are you Jude?

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Re: The Holocaust couldn't have happened without WW2

Post by Nessie » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:03 am

When discussing the evidence, I often point to motive, ability, opportunity and guilty conduct after the crime. Once the Nazis had expanded east with Operation Barbarossa, that gave them the actual opportunity to mass murder. Huge areas of land, many more Jews to deal with, total control of the populace.

If Hitler had not entered Poland, I think that there would have been an ethnic cleansing of Germany and Austria and that would be it. Forced emigration, certain deaths, but no mass murder.

If once Hitler entered Poland, it was partitioned with no further invasions, no matter what had followed, I think the same. Forced emigration.
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Re: The Holocaust couldn't have happened without WW2

Post by VFX » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:10 am

Nessie wrote:When discussing the evidence, I often point to motive, ability, opportunity and guilty conduct after the crime.
What alleged crime?
I think that there would have been an ethnic cleansing of Germany and Austria and that would be it. Forced emigration, certain deaths, but no mass murder.
What you think is of little importance to the reality considering you perhaps live in an alternative one. :) How they are your thoughts but don't make them claims. They are worthy of discussion which we can dissect bit by bit. You won't like it but we can do it.
If once Hitler entered Poland, it was partitioned with no further invasions, no matter what had followed, I think the same. Forced emigration.
Once again it is what you think. You are only thinking of jews jews and jews. FFS there are more people in those countries who perished who are just as important as your darned circumscribed brothers.

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Re: The Holocaust couldn't have happened without WW2

Post by Nessie » Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:00 am

VFX wrote:
Nessie wrote:When discussing the evidence, I often point to motive, ability, opportunity and guilty conduct after the crime.
What alleged crime?
Murder and ethnic cleansing. That is what the Nazis were accused of. Their conduct after the crime, such as razing the AR camps to the ground and mass cremations is evidence they were trying to hide what had happened at those places.
I think that there would have been an ethnic cleansing of Germany and Austria and that would be it. Forced emigration, certain deaths, but no mass murder.
What you think is of little importance to the reality considering you perhaps live in an alternative one. :) How they are your thoughts but don't make them claims. They are worthy of discussion which we can dissect bit by bit. You won't like it but we can do it.
I need evidence to back up my thoughts, but you do not? Please explain the double standard.
If once Hitler entered Poland, it was partitioned with no further invasions, no matter what had followed, I think the same. Forced emigration.
Once again it is what you think. You are only thinking of jews jews and jews. FFS there are more people in those countries who perished who are just as important as your darned circumscribed brothers.
Indeed, Roma gypsies and others are likely to have suffered the same fate.
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Re: The Holocaust couldn't have happened without WW2

Post by VFX » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:33 pm

Nessie wrote:
Indeed, Roma gypsies and others are likely to have suffered the same fate.
Pull your head out of your rectum and think of the 69 million people who died not your 1 million bearded brothers.

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Re: The Holocaust couldn't have happened without WW2

Post by Nessie » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:48 pm

VFX wrote:
Nessie wrote:
Indeed, Roma gypsies and others are likely to have suffered the same fate.
Pull your head out of your rectum and think of the 69 million people who died not your 1 million bearded brothers.
This sub forum is about the Holocaust. That it looks in detail at the Final Solution of the Jewish Question is detail is the prime topic.
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Re: The Holocaust couldn't have happened without WW2

Post by VFX » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:50 pm

Nessie wrote:
VFX wrote:
Nessie wrote:
Indeed, Roma gypsies and others are likely to have suffered the same fate.
Pull your head out of your rectum and think of the 69 million people who died not your 1 million bearded brothers.
This sub forum is about the Holocaust. That it looks in detail at the Final Solution of the Jewish Question is detail is the prime topic.
The forum is about the alleged holocaust which includes the Russian one, not your precious shoah.

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Re: The Holocaust couldn't have happened without WW2

Post by Nessie » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:53 pm

Do you deny the "Russian one"?
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Re: The Holocaust couldn't have happened without WW2

Post by VFX » Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:17 pm

Nessie wrote:Do you deny the "Russian one"?
Nope, it was the Great Patriotic War. Murderous on both sides. Russians have their biases but not a totally fake story like the Shoah.

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Re: The Holocaust couldn't have happened without WW2

Post by Nessie » Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:24 pm

VFX wrote:
Nessie wrote:Do you deny the "Russian one"?
Nope, it was the Great Patriotic War. Murderous on both sides. Russians have their biases but not a totally fake story like the Shoah.
So, now you are arguing the Soviets have not been faking the Holocaust. Here you do the opposite;

http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 81#p661491

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Make up your mind. The posts are only two minutes apart!
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Re: The Holocaust couldn't have happened without WW2

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:50 pm

Victims of Nazi criminality and megalomania not mentioned by VFX: perhaps 7 million Germans. Curious.
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Re: The Holocaust couldn't have happened without WW2

Post by Balsamo » Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:51 pm

Just one question:
Why don't you guys go back to Rodoh to have your conversation?

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Re: The Holocaust couldn't have happened without WW2

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:56 pm

Excellent question.
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Re: The Holocaust couldn't have happened without WW2

Post by montgomery » Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:36 pm

In order to even begin to answer Aaron's questions I would have a very close look at history since WW2 in order to determine just which side turned out to be the aggressors. Nearly 40 American wars of aggression stacked up against a very real suspicion of the Russians never were coming.
................, when the world was at war, and tens of thousands of people were dying on the weekly, when large scale destruction had become the norm, thousands of lbs of bombs being dropped over civilian centers, it makes perfect sense for a "civilized" nation to resort to this ultimate act of barbarism, which even a regime of hatred would have balked at undertaking during peacetime.
In comparison to what America did to the Vietnamese people?

In comparison to what America has done to Muslims and Iraq, in response to the revenge attack on the WTC that cost less than 3000 lives. Including summary executions of Muslims by American soldiers!

In comparison, Germans would certainly have the needed motivation!