The Holocaust Denying Bishop

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The Holocaust Denying Bishop

Post by montgomery » Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:23 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6C9BuX ... 1536640755

I was informed that an RC Bishop actually exist who denies the holocaust, so I did a search and found him. He raises a half dozen points, and among those, I found the comments on Leuchter, the 200,000 to 300,000 Jewish victims, and the remarks on how he will be attacked, the most interesting. Some may find other comments even more interesting?

Suffice to say, it's very unusual for a socalled 'man of god' to risk his neck in this way! Some of his comments may be of interest to forum members.

Is anybody aware of his fate? Did the RC church bring the ax down on his neck?

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Re: The Holocaust Denying Bishop

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:54 am

ROFL ... that feeling when you're so late to the party that the hosts have already cleaned up ...
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Re: The Holocaust Denying Bishop

Post by Aaron Richards » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:04 am

montgomery wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6C9BuX ... 1536640755

I was informed that an RC Bishop actually exist who denies the holocaust, so I did a search and found him. He raises a half dozen points, and among those, I found the comments on Leuchter, the 200,000 to 300,000 Jewish victims, and the remarks on how he will be attacked, the most interesting. Some may find other comments even more interesting?
The video is pretty old, one of the "entry-level drugs" into holocaust revisionism on youtube, I'd say (along with TGSNT, hellstorm, old eric hunt vids still on the site).

As to the points, it's the usual talking points of basic deniers. Leuchter discussed here. The claim that "less than 300,000 died" is often attributed to the red cross, and is addressed here:
imgur.com/F9nYZg3
imgur.com/xJCzhbc
imgur.com/b6nOxur
Suffice to say, it's very unusual for a socalled 'man of god' to risk his neck in this way!
Unusual? Now why on earth would revisionism be appealing to a man of the cloth whose lord and savior was sentenced to death by a Jewish mob? Gee, that's a tough one, innit? More to his motivations here

But you know what? Bishop Williamson is 100% right when he says between 0:26 - 0:43 the following: "The historical evidence is strongly against...hugely against six million Jews having been gassed in gas chambers ..."

I think we can all agree on that, even folks like Raul Hilberg and Deborah Lipstadt. :lol: 8-)

The rest of his diatribe is a crock of shite, though. Including his belief that even a small whiff of hydrogen cyanide can kill you instantly. It can't. HCN rapidly loses its lethality when exposed to open air, as any chemistry book will tell.

Similarly, his idea that the doors have to be absolutely air-tight or it will kill people nearby directly contradicts revisionist insistence on the very real delousing chambers located in close proximity to inmate barracks, and having rather normal doors :lol:
Last edited by Aaron Richards on Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The Holocaust Denying Bishop

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:09 am

Aaron Richards wrote:Unusual?
Perhaps montgomery will one day in the future learn about the widespread support for the National Socialists from the German church, about Tiso, about the clerics involved with the Ustasha, and so on, for now he's still trying to absorb that "EGs" has an actual meaning . . .
Aaron Richards wrote:But you know what? Bishop Williamson is 100% right when he says between 0:26 - 0:43 the following: "The historical evidence is strongly against...hugely against six million Jews having been gassed in gas chambers ..."

I think we can all agree on that, even folks like Raul Hilberg and Deborah Lipstadt. :lol: 8-)
LOL, well played
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Re: The Holocaust Denying Bishop

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:18 am

montgomery might try digesting the following so as to 1) stop making a fool of himself and 2) understand why so many here find him tedious and boring - these are kind of "price of entry" so to speak:

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... enial.html
https://siraaronrichards.imgur.com/
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... al-is.html
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=27211
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... esreleased
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... sense.html
"It was still at the stage of clubs and fists, hurrah, tala"

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Re: The Holocaust Denying Bishop

Post by montgomery » Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:27 pm

Aaron Richards wrote:
montgomery wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6C9BuX ... 1536640755

I was informed that an RC Bishop actually exist who denies the holocaust, so I did a search and found him. He raises a half dozen points, and among those, I found the comments on Leuchter, the 200,000 to 300,000 Jewish victims, and the remarks on how he will be attacked, the most interesting. Some may find other comments even more interesting?
The video is pretty old, one of the "entry-level drugs" into holocaust revisionism on youtube, I'd say (along with TGSNT, hellstorm, old eric hunt vids still on the site).

As to the points, it's the usual talking points of basic deniers. Leuchter discussed here. The claim that "less than 300,000 died" is often attributed to the red cross, and is addressed here:
imgur.com/F9nYZg3
imgur.com/xJCzhbc
imgur.com/b6nOxur
Suffice to say, it's very unusual for a socalled 'man of god' to risk his neck in this way!
Unusual? Now why on earth would revisionism be appealing to a man of the cloth whose lord and savior was sentenced to death by a Jewish mob? Gee, that's a tough one, innit? More to his motivations here

But you know what? Bishop Williamson is 100% right when he says between 0:26 - 0:43 the following: "The historical evidence is strongly against...hugely against six million Jews having been gassed in gas chambers ..."

I think we can all agree on that, even folks like Raul Hilberg and Deborah Lipstadt. :lol: 8-)

The rest of his diatribe is a crock of shite, though. Including his belief that even a small whiff of hydrogen cyanide can kill you instantly. It can't. HCN rapidly loses its lethality when exposed to open air, as any chemistry book will tell.

Similarly, his idea that the doors have to be absolutely air-tight or it will kill people nearby directly contradicts revisionist insistence on the very real delousing chambers located in close proximity to inmate barracks, and having rather normal doors :lol:
Thanks for your comments. Yes, I know it's old and I was attacked for bringing up old evidence when I brought up Leuchter too. I get the feeling this is some kind of exclusive club in which the latest propaganda is the only acceptable evidence. I think, that no matter how old the Leuchter evidence is, it's still has quite a few unanswered questions. I think it always will and calling them old won't make them go away.

As to the lethality of cyanide gas, there are a lot of considerations that have to be dealt with as to the form in which it's being used. Are you aware of the video that shows two or three men entering a small space in which ZB was dumped and they stayed for 15 minutes? I think the argument is that ZB is lethal if administered as a lethal dose, and then that would call for complete ventilation procedures.

My aim is to not automatically accept holocaust claims and it's not to put them down just as quickly and easily. Telling me that a small whiff of cyanide gas can't kill you is not information that is helpful. And flaming all skeptics, as is the usual procedure here isn't helping those kind of idiots to make their point!

As for the Bishop, I'm pleased that several have found his position worth discussion. Important enough to get three insulting posts out of the book-kid, in what appears to be desperation!!

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Re: The Holocaust Denying Bishop

Post by VFX » Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:19 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Aaron Richards wrote:Unusual?
Perhaps montgomery will one day in the future learn about the widespread support for the National Socialists from the German church
Why not, they had a huge support from a vast amount of the German population. A variant of these people are rising again in Europe.

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Re: The Holocaust Denying Bishop

Post by montgomery » Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:48 pm

Aaron Richards wrote:
But you know what? Bishop Williamson is 100% right when he says between 0:26 - 0:43 the following: "The historical evidence is strongly against...hugely against six million Jews having been gassed in gas chambers ..."
Thank you for that. It may not seem to be of much consequence to you but it's of huge importance to me. I didn't realize there were some of the holocaust promotion side that would agree on that.

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Re: The Holocaust Denying Bishop

Post by VFX » Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:13 pm

Lethality of HCN
cyanide

For the inhaled vapour, 300ppm are toxic within about 10 mins. To get anywhere near that lethality in an alleged chamber at L1 Auschwitz a quick calculation would determine, 40 two kilogram cans of Zyklon B is needed to reach that concentration. As there was no circulation system some would die but most would not in the time period claimed. Although there is some vapor pressure due to the triple point of HCN,(259.86K, -13.29C, 8.078F) this would be low due to the coldness experienced in Poland, which is typically at -3C. HCN vaporizes at 25.85C. The vapour change takes 25.217kJmol-1This is the heat required to convert a unit mass of a liquid into vapor without a change in temperature. This heat comes from the surroundings resulting in cooling which pulls the equilibrium to the left. This is why liquids feel cold when poured on your hand.
In comparison ethanol is 38.6kJmol-1

The Germans had proper mechanized systems for using Zb to disinfest clothes and trains. They used a heated air circulation system called the Kreislauf. The Zb cans were opened in the machine and the HCN was circulated throughout the chamber. A larger version was used in very long buildings to hold train carriages. If gassing were to occur they only needed to drive the carriages with the Jews into one of these buildings, remove the engine and then turn it all on. The Jews would have been effectively gassed while still in the railway carriages. This would have worked not the absurd use of a very cold morgue with single doors, a 250 kg lift to raise thousands of bodies, to a series of 15 muffles. To dispose of each body at minimum is 1 hour despite the absurd claims by others that it can be reduced to 7 mins. Each muffle can only fit one body. A single gassing of 2000 people is 2000 hours burning time or 133 hours per muffle. To dispose of 1 gassing load would take 5.6 days and 50 tonne of coke. The claims that bodies can burn on their own is so absurd; people are 68% water and to boil that away takes 25 mins before burning can start.
There are numerous problems with the gassing myth apart from the absurd method of cyanide application in the form of Zb. Pouring it down holes indeed, it just would not work. Not only are there logistical issues of getting several thousand people through two single doors at right angles, but to line them up at the end in rows, like sardines would take training and an intense military operation. Due to breathing issues there would be oxygen deprivation long before the last person was sardined into the chamber and panic would ensure. No force on earth could stop the panic of two thousand frightened people.
Apart from this complete absurdity, it would be a military operation to get two thousand people lined up in a que to walk down those steps.During all of the photographic flyovers with recognizance photos not one show any line of people anywhere near L2 of either Krema.

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Re: The Holocaust Denying Bishop

Post by montgomery » Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:49 pm

VFX wrote:
Lethality of HCN
cyanide

For the inhaled vapour, 300ppm are toxic within about 10 mins. To get anywhere near that lethality in an alleged chamber at L1 Auschwitz a quick calculation would determine, 40 two kilogram cans of Zyklon B is needed to reach that concentration. As there was no circulation system some would die but most would not in the time period claimed. Although there is some vapor pressure due to the triple point of HCN,(259.86K, -13.29C, 8.078F) this would be low due to the coldness experienced in Poland, which is typically at -3C. HCN vaporizes at 25.85C. The vapour change takes 25.217kJmol-1This is the heat required to convert a unit mass of a liquid into vapor without a change in temperature. This heat comes from the surroundings resulting in cooling which pulls the equilibrium to the left. This is why liquids feel cold when poured on your hand.
In comparison ethanol is 38.6kJmol-1

The Germans had proper mechanized systems for using Zb to disinfest clothes and trains. They used a heated air circulation system called the Kreislauf. The Zb cans were opened in the machine and the HCN was circulated throughout the chamber. A larger version was used in very long buildings to hold train carriages. If gassing were to occur they only needed to drive the carriages with the Jews into one of these buildings, remove the engine and then turn it all on. The Jews would have been effectively gassed while still in the railway carriages. This would have worked not the absurd use of a very cold morgue with single doors, a 250 kg lift to raise thousands of bodies, to a series of 15 muffles. To dispose of each body at minimum is 1 hour despite the absurd claims by others that it can be reduced to 7 mins. Each muffle can only fit one body. A single gassing of 2000 people is 2000 hours burning time or 133 hours per muffle. To dispose of 1 gassing load would take 5.6 days and 50 tonne of coke. The claims that bodies can burn on their own is so absurd; people are 68% water and to boil that away takes 25 mins before burning can start.
There are numerous problems with the gassing myth apart from the absurd method of cyanide application in the form of Zb. Pouring it down holes indeed, it just would not work. Not only are there logistical issues of getting several thousand people through two single doors at right angles, but to line them up at the end in rows, like sardines would take training and an intense military operation. Due to breathing issues there would be oxygen deprivation long before the last person was sardined into the chamber and panic would ensure. No force on earth could stop the panic of two thousand frightened people.
Apart from this complete absurdity, it would be a military operation to get two thousand people lined up in a que to walk down those steps.During all of the photographic flyovers with recognizance photos not one show any line of people anywhere near L2 of either Krema.
I don't know if Nessie is capable of a rebuttal on the same level as this evidence or not. But if he isn't then maybe somebody else would be.

At the very least, this calls for something better than the usual childish behavior of personal attack.

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Re: The Holocaust Denying Bishop

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:36 am

Aaron Richards wrote: The video is pretty old, one of the "entry-level drugs" into holocaust revisionism on youtube, I'd say (along with TGSNT, hellstorm, old eric hunt vids still on the site).
:lol:

That is a true classic, thanks Aaron!
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
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Re: The Holocaust Denying Bishop

Post by Aaron Richards » Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:44 am

montgomery wrote:Thank you for that. It may not seem to be of much consequence to you but it's of huge importance to me. I didn't realize there were some of the holocaust promotion side that would agree on that.
I hope you understood my comment. I was reiterating the fact that no holocaust historian has ever claimed six million Jews were gassed. That is a strawman invented by deniers. The "official narrative", if you will, is that Axis powers and their collaborators, chiefly Nazi Germans, murdered approximately six million Jews from various causes ranging from Einsatzgruppen shootings, homicidal gassing, labor attrition, starvation, disease due to poor hygienic conditions, medical experimentation, death marches etc.
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Re: The Holocaust Denying Bishop

Post by Aaron Richards » Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:10 am

VFX wrote:For the inhaled vapour, 300ppm are toxic within about 10 mins. To get anywhere near that lethality in an alleged chamber at L1 Auschwitz a quick calculation would determine, 40 two kilogram cans of Zyklon B is needed to reach that concentration.
And you arrived at this exactly H O W ? Please show us your calculation.

Here's mine:
VFX wrote:As there was no circulation system some would die but most would not in the time period claimed.
This is, again, a revisionist argument based on the STRAWMAN that everybody who died in a gas chamber, is only permitted to die via a lethal inhalation of the killing agent, and by no other means. It is a ridiculous strawman ignoring the conditions of a hyperventilating, panicking crowd of people physically marked as unfit for work, packed and trapped in a room like animals.
VFX wrote:bla bla bla vapor pressure....and it's cold outside, yo...
The morgues were heated. We have both witness testimony AND evidence in the form of documents supporting this.
Image

Image
VFX wrote:bla bla bla DEGESCH Kreislauf...bla bla bla why didn't they gas them in the trains in one of them old railway delousing chambers?...
The strawman here is "if the murderer did not use the more efficient method I have determined using 20/20 hindsight from the comfort of my armchair, then he clearly didn't commit the murder at all. Besides, Fritz Berg's obssession with railway delousing chambers, wood gas trucks and cherry red bodies has been refuted more than a decade ago.


VFX wrote:To dispose of each body at minimum is 1 hour
No.
VFX wrote: Each muffle can only fit one body.
No.

Image

VFX wrote:A single gassing of 2000 people is 2000 hours burning time or 133 hours per muffle.
No and no.
VFX wrote:To dispose of 1 gassing load would take 5.6 days and 50 tonne of coke.
No.
VFX wrote: The claims that bodies can burn on their own is so absurd; people are 68% water and to boil that away takes 25 mins before burning can start.
Absurd to a couch potato, perhaps. Water evaporates. People are also made up of fat. The proper mixture of emaciated worker bodies, fat bodies and small bodies is how we got our numbers, as exhaustive testimony has detailed.
VFX wrote: Pouring it down holes indeed, it just would not work.
It will.
VFX wrote:Not only are there logistical issues of getting several thousand people through two single doors at right angles, but to line them up at the end in rows, like sardines would take training and an intense military operation.
If it worked in the Zentralsauna, why not in the "showers"? And a crowd of people considered unfit for labor, on top of that exhausted from days of non-stop train travel, often standing, is easy to control and coerce into following a hygenic procedure.
VFX wrote:Due to breathing issues there would be oxygen deprivation long before the last person was sardined into the chamber and panic would ensure.
You've never been to indoor heavy metal concerts, have you?
VFX wrote:No force on earth could stop the panic of two thousand frightened people.
Except this thing called concrete walls. And 95% of the gas chamber perimeter is made up of them.
VFX wrote:Apart from this complete absurdity, it would be a military operation to get two thousand people lined up in a que to walk down those steps.During all of the photographic flyovers with recognizance photos not one show any line of people anywhere near L2 of either Krema.
How many were there? About a dozen. Mostly flyovers taken before midday. You can still see long lines of people moving towards the Kremas in some of them, although they havent reached them yet. We even have ground level photos of desperate looking old people in front of the Krema building, probably part of the queue.
Image
Image
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Re: The Holocaust Denying Bishop

Post by montgomery » Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:21 am

Aaron Richards wrote:
montgomery wrote:Thank you for that. It may not seem to be of much consequence to you but it's of huge importance to me. I didn't realize there were some of the holocaust promotion side that would agree on that.
I hope you understood my comment. I was reiterating the fact that no holocaust historian has ever claimed six million Jews were gassed. That is a strawman invented by deniers. The "official narrative", if you will, is that Axis powers and their collaborators, chiefly Nazi Germans, murdered approximately six million Jews from various causes ranging from Einsatzgruppen shootings, homicidal gassing, labor attrition, starvation, disease due to poor hygienic conditions, medical experimentation, death marches etc.
I understood what you were trying to say Aaron and I know what the current claim is now. It's just that the gassing claim for Auschwitz has been changed from 4 million down to 1.1 million in a few steps. I'm not the expert and so I couldn't be sure if you may have been suggesting 6 million. The difference between 6 and 4 is 2, while the difference between 4 and 1.1 is 2.9. It's probably another instance where the lies and exaggerations cause so much confusion.

So maybe you know? Did anyone ever try to sell the 6 million gassing at Auschwitz? Yes/No/Maybe?

Some of the holocaust promoters on this board have been less than completely honest Aaron, and so I'm hesitant to accept anything from them anymore. Not to mention them acting like children with their personal attacks!

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Re: The Holocaust Denying Bishop

Post by Aaron Richards » Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:51 am

montgomery wrote:It's just that the gassing claim for Auschwitz has been changed from 4 million down to 1.1 million in a few steps. I'm not the expert and so I couldn't be sure if you may have been suggesting 6 million. The difference between 6 and 4 is 2, while the difference between 4 and 1.1 is 2.9. It's probably another instance where the lies and exaggerations cause so much confusion.
If you mean this....
Image
...note how the old soviet-origin death toll for Auschwitz did not specify how many of those 4 million were Jews. Hence, its reduction does not affect the 6 million Jews death toll that has been established historiography since the 1950s.

The Soviets had a "do not divide the dead" policy, wherein they saw themselves as the chief victims of fascism, and did not want to segregate by creed.

In fact, flying in the face of all the "Jewish Bolshevism" theories, the Soviet Union was actually NOT a friend of Zionism, and did not have cordial relations with Israel at all.

And before we call the Soviets cold and calculating liars for the inflated death tolls, even that would be wrong, because the Soviets based those tolls off theoretical calculations of the gas chambers and crematoria running nonstop in absence of paperwork, and hence arrived at those tolls. This was done before historians like Danuta Czech etc. studied the train records extensively to establish the real death toll of Auschwitz.
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Re: The Holocaust Denying Bishop

Post by montgomery » Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:59 am

I didn't read it all Aaron but you made my point with the pictures that I made without them. But thanks because I didn't know the 1.1 'still' didn't narrow it down to Jews only.

One thing for sure Aaron, we have one he-- of a lot of work to do in order to sort out the lies and exaggerations!

Question for you though: Did anybody ever make the claim that 6 million Jews were gassed at Auschwitz specifically, or otherwise? ? Any experts know for sure this time?

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Re: The Holocaust Denying Bishop

Post by NathanC » Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:04 am

Aaron Richards wrote:
montgomery wrote:It's just that the gassing claim for Auschwitz has been changed from 4 million down to 1.1 million in a few steps. I'm not the expert and so I couldn't be sure if you may have been suggesting 6 million. The difference between 6 and 4 is 2, while the difference between 4 and 1.1 is 2.9. It's probably another instance where the lies and exaggerations cause so much confusion.
If you mean this....
Image
...note how the old soviet-origin death toll for Auschwitz did not specify how many of those 4 million were Jews. Hence, its reduction does not affect the 6 million Jews death toll that has been established historiography since the 1950s.

The Soviets had a "do not divide the dead" policy, wherein they saw themselves as the chief victims of fascism, and did not want to segregate by creed.

In fact, flying in the face of all the "Jewish Bolshevism" theories, the Soviet Union was actually NOT a friend of Zionism, and did not have cordial relations with Israel at all.

And before we call the Soviets cold and calculating liars for the inflated death tolls, even that would be wrong, because the Soviets based those tolls off theoretical calculations of the gas chambers and crematoria running nonstop in absence of paperwork, and hence arrived at those tolls. This was done before historians like Danuta Czech etc. studied the train records extensively to establish the real death toll of Auschwitz.
Just to correct, the USSR did initially support Israel in 1947. Stalin was the first to recognize Israel after the UN voted for partition, whereas Truman only did so several months later. Stalin also provided weapons to Israel via the Czechs, whereas Truman kept the Arms embargo in place.

This wasn’t because Stalin was “Pro Jewish” of course. Stalin looked out for Stalin and the USSR’s interest first and foremost. He wanted access to the Middle East and thought Israel would give him the opportunity. When this didn’t work and Israel instead declared Neutrality, Stalin lost his {!#%@} and started his own anti Jewish discrimination policies. When the USSR instead supported the Arabs in the mid 50s, they became Israel’s enemy and had no motive whatsoever to “fake” the Holocaust. They actually forced the few remaining Jews in the USSR to blame the Anti Jewish killings on Western Jews and “Zionists”. Some hoaxing they made.
You’re correct about Auschwitz. In addition to the proven policy of “Not dividing the dead”, the Polish government also prioritized showing the suffering of the Poles in Auschwitz, not the Jews. The official act the Polish Government issued, for example, emphasized that The Auschwitz memorial was for remembering the martyrdom of the Polish Nation, first and foremeost

http://lekcja.auschwitz.org/en_22_muzeum/

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Re: The Holocaust Denying Bishop

Post by NathanC » Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:06 am

I didn’t read it all
And that’s the problem. Holocaust denial and Racism is a choice, not something you’re “tricked” into.

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Re: The Holocaust Denying Bishop

Post by montgomery » Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:14 am

NathanC wrote:
I didn’t read it all
And that’s the problem. Holocaust denial and Racism is a choice, not something you’re “tricked” into.
That's the big problem with the holocaust promotion side of the debate Nathan. They are yearning for a little bit of holocaust denial from me and I won't give them any. Without it they break into a full sweat and start the personal insults to see if they can get some.

It's the perfect storm Nathan, being a skeptic, eliciting stupid exaggerations out of them, and then shooting it down as more lies and exaggerations from liars.

It's not our experts fault that they are poor judges of who the liars are Nathan. We can't be 'experts' on everything. After nearly 75 years it's still a work in progress.

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Re: The Holocaust Denying Bishop

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:22 am

Aaron Richards wrote:
montgomery wrote:Thank you for that. It may not seem to be of much consequence to you but it's of huge importance to me. I didn't realize there were some of the holocaust promotion side that would agree on that.
I hope you understood my comment. I was reiterating the fact that no holocaust historian has ever claimed six million Jews were gassed. That is a strawman invented by deniers. The "official narrative", if you will, is that Axis powers and their collaborators, chiefly Nazi Germans, murdered approximately six million Jews from various causes ranging from Einsatzgruppen shootings, homicidal gassing, labor attrition, starvation, disease due to poor hygienic conditions, medical experimentation, death marches etc.
1. Which we've been over umpteen times in this forum, including since montgomery began trolling here.
2. Which, to be clear, includes at least one disputed element - 6 million deaths (I'm reading a book on Arab responses to the Holocaust and interestingly the figure on Jewish deaths picked up in Arab newspapers right after the war was 5.7 million, relying on a statement made by Harry S Truman) - and we've been over this umpteen to the nth power times in this forum.
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Re: The Holocaust Denying Bishop

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:26 am

All montgomery's "misunderstandings" - to be charitable - IIRC, are dealt with here and have been exposed as cheap lies - to be hyperbolic - forever.

We have been reduced to playing another round of Denier BS Bingo with someone who won't even read.
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Re: The Holocaust Denying Bishop

Post by NathanC » Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:28 am

People who explicitly say “they didn’t read” have no business calling more honest people “liars”.

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Re: The Holocaust Denying Bishop

Post by VFX » Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:33 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:since montgomery began trolling here.
2. Which, to be clear, includes at least one disputed element - 6 million deaths (I'm reading a book on Arab responses to the Holocaust and interestingly the figure on Jewish deaths picked up in Arab newspapers right after the war was 5.7 million, relying on a statement made by Harry S Truman) - and we've been over this umpteen to the nth power times in this forum.
The calculations show there were 1 million Jewish deaths and 30 million Russians. Which one should be more significant? I do know what Mr Putin considers more significant and it has nothing to do with Mr Netanyahu. You are relying on a statement by Mr Truman, that is also propaganda as he is part of the dispute. When there is claims of corruption please do not forward their names as evidence, as in the end they will be indicted perhaps.
Montgomery is not trolling and neither are you: you have been asked politely to moderate your language to your opponents. Your gang has fallen away and now you have to deal with us.

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Re: The Holocaust Denying Bishop

Post by NathanC » Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:43 am

The calculations actually show that out of 5-6M Jewish dead, 1+ Million were deliberately shot in the Soviet Union, vs. 1/4 of that number of other groups. The highest estimate of Soviet deaths - 27 Million - is due to all causes, the .25M executed in anti partisan actions, Military/POW deaths, Starvation, Soviet Purges and Gulags. We are talking about the deliberate murders , i.e. the death squads and shooting actions. In this case, Jewish dead outnumbers Non Jewish dead, which prompted the Soviets to not “Divide the dead” and of Obscure the Anti Jewish nature of massacres, instead presenting the Jewish dead as “Peaceful soviet citizens”

As for Truman, I’ve already spoken about his postwar policy towards Israel above. One can also read the Well sourced study in my signature. Claiming about Truman’s corruption when he explicitly told his staff that he “didn’t care” about Nazi crimes, is ignorant and dishonest. Just like most Holocaust denial.

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Re: The Holocaust Denying Bishop

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:54 am

VFX wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:since montgomery began trolling here.
2. Which, to be clear, includes at least one disputed element - 6 million deaths (I'm reading a book on Arab responses to the Holocaust and interestingly the figure on Jewish deaths picked up in Arab newspapers right after the war was 5.7 million, relying on a statement made by Harry S Truman) - and we've been over this umpteen to the nth power times in this forum.
The calculations show there were 1 million Jewish deaths and 30 million Russians.
No, they don’t. You can’t hide behind “the calculations.” Spit out whose and on what basis.
Which one should be more significant?
This forum happens to focus on the Holocaust but we do indeed get into other related issues and various crimes of the Nazis such as the criminal war which the Third Reich launched against the USSR resulting in 27m+ deaths among them many millions of civilians, the Germans’ intentional mass murder of Soviet POWs, the civilian casualties purposely brought about in anti partisan actions, the cruel efforts at mass starvation including at Leningrad (IIRC we have a thread here on this topic) but also in plans for the occupation of the East.

The Russians and other people of the former Soviet Union, agreed, were brutalized by the Nazis.
I do know what Mr Putin considers more significant and it has nothing to do with Mr Netanyahu.
I don’t really care what these two men make of it, as my focus isn’t on the countries they lead today but what people understood and believed in the aftermath of he war.
You are relying on a statement by Mr Truman
Can’t you read? I am not relying on anything Truman said (just FYI he’s among my least favorite US presidents) but instead simply reporting early Arab understandings and one of their sources. In fact, I disagree with the figure and have posted so within the last week among many other times.
When there is claims of corruption please do not forward their names as evidence, as in the end they will be indicted perhaps.
This may mean something to you but it is too cryptic for me.
Your gang has fallen away and now you have to deal with us. We are RODOH as you well know.
You imagine that is some challenge? LOL the tedium is, I will grant you that, and reading through rookie errors and unexplained assertions can be enervating, but you’d actually have to understand what people write and make counter arguments for there even to have a debate with you all, let alone one you need warn us about.
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Re: The Holocaust Denying Bishop

Post by VFX » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:08 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:you’d actually have to understand what people write and make counter arguments for there even to have a debate with you all
We are bringing you to task first for your arrogance, your name calling etc which even the moderator of this forum no longer accepts. In all of your posts instead of making your point your childish immature feeling of superiority shines through as a dim beacon in a fog of no hope. Your incredible childishness as a leader means you need to look at yourself. You are not a leader. Now put your arrogance aside and be a little humble then the issues important can be discussed. Basically we are all sick of your excrement: your day is over little man. :shock:

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Re: The Holocaust Denying Bishop

Post by VFX » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:12 am

NathanC wrote:The calculations actually show that out of 5-6M Jewish dead, 1+ Million were deliberately shot in the Soviet Union, vs. 1/4 of that number of other groups. The highest estimate of Soviet deaths - 27 Million - is due to all causes, the .25M executed in anti partisan actions, Military/POW deaths, Starvation, Soviet Purges and Gulags. We are talking about the deliberate murders , i.e. the death squads and shooting actions. In this case, Jewish dead outnumbers Non Jewish dead, which prompted the Soviets to not “Divide the dead” and of Obscure the Anti Jewish nature of massacres, instead presenting the Jewish dead as “Peaceful soviet citizens”

As for Truman, I’ve already spoken about his postwar policy towards Israel above. One can also read the Well sourced study in my signature. Claiming about Truman’s corruption when he explicitly told his staff that he “didn’t care” about Nazi crimes, is ignorant and dishonest. Just like most Holocaust denial.
Bull excrement. we all have those figures and can you totally confirm their integrity beyond war propaganda.

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Re: The Holocaust Denying Bishop

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:17 am

VFX wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:you’d actually have to understand what people write and make counter arguments for there even to have a debate with you all
We are bringing you to task first for your arrogance, your name calling etc
You think you have an impact on what I post or think? Good grief.
VFX wrote:which even the moderator of this forum no longer accepts.
Go back and read what Pyrrho wrote.
VFX wrote:In all of your posts instead of making your point your childish immature feeling of superiority shines through as a dim beacon in a fog of no hope. Your incredible childishness as a leader means you need to look at yourself. You are not a leader. Now put your arrogance aside and be a little humble then the issues important can be discussed. Basically we are all sick of your excrement: your day is over little man. :shock:
I am not a leader, we agree on that. You keep making basic errors, repeating old cliches, and getting called out for this - and you keep dodging and weaving about, so, in fact, I don't take you seriously.

As for the rest of your frustrated whining:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:the wit and wisdom of VFX and NSDAP, the pinnacle of Rodohian contributions to understanding of Third Reich and WWII history:

Basically no one give a {!#%@} what you are. As Montomery has suggested you are just an arrogant a-hole. There is no debate on holocaust denial here because of you. Go on big boy strut your stuff. We are all watching.

Here we go again the same childish {!#%@} that is your signature.

You Moron if we wish to speak to you we will... in the mean time {!#%@} off.

No one is angry with you Jeff, you try, it is the arrogance of Stat Mech, which is the real reason why people do not post anything here. As Montgomery has said many times, everything, through this man debases down to name calling with no moderation. There are other a holes but he is the biggest. If you dudes want a debate then do it properly without the stupid kindergarten {!#%@}.

You try nothing, i've seen all of your posts. You are a scum bag so {!#%@} off.

I am glad you are following. Now {!#%@} off you stupid prick... You aint the boss of this forum...

If we lack substance you have none. You stupid pompous fat arsed troll.

that is good as pricks like you cannot comprehend much else.

No one asked for your opinion so {!#%@} of you moron.
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Re: The Holocaust Denying Bishop

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:18 am

VFX wrote:Bull excrement. we all have those figures and can you totally confirm their integrity beyond war propaganda.
Then do it, big boy.
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Re: The Holocaust Denying Bishop

Post by NathanC » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:20 am

VFX wrote:
NathanC wrote:The calculations actually show that out of 5-6M Jewish dead, 1+ Million were deliberately shot in the Soviet Union, vs. 1/4 of that number of other groups. The highest estimate of Soviet deaths - 27 Million - is due to all causes, the .25M executed in anti partisan actions, Military/POW deaths, Starvation, Soviet Purges and Gulags. We are talking about the deliberate murders , i.e. the death squads and shooting actions. In this case, Jewish dead outnumbers Non Jewish dead, which prompted the Soviets to not “Divide the dead” and of Obscure the Anti Jewish nature of massacres, instead presenting the Jewish dead as “Peaceful soviet citizens”

As for Truman, I’ve already spoken about his postwar policy towards Israel above. One can also read the Well sourced study in my signature. Claiming about Truman’s corruption when he explicitly told his staff that he “didn’t care” about Nazi crimes, is ignorant and dishonest. Just like most Holocaust denial.
Bull excrement. we all have those figures and can you totally confirm their integrity beyond war propaganda.
Do Not Divide the Dead + Truman’s “I don’t care”/= “Propaganda”. It never happened.

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Re: The Holocaust Denying Bishop

Post by VFX » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:22 am

Your post means nothing.. you are dismissed. cheers

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Re: The Holocaust Denying Bishop

Post by NathanC » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:28 am

Truth speaks for itself, and neither it nor I require validation from someone like you.

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Re: The Holocaust Denying Bishop

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:29 am

VFX wrote:Your post means nothing.. you are dismissed. cheers
Again, the lack of substance, general piffle, obnoxious condescension.
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Re: The Holocaust Denying Bishop

Post by VFX » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:40 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote: Again, the lack of substance, general piffle, obnoxious condescension.
Why are you looking in the mirror and exposing your lack of intellectual hygiene to the world, including your warts.
Your days are done.

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Re: The Holocaust Denying Bishop

Post by VFX » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:41 am

NathanC wrote:Truth speaks for itself, and neither it nor I require validation from someone like you.
If you have arguments against the topic then state it clearly and not from emotion. Ideas and thoughts are important as well as evidence based rhetoric.

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Re: The Holocaust Denying Bishop

Post by NathanC » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:42 am

VFX wrote:
NathanC wrote:Truth speaks for itself, and neither it nor I require validation from someone like you.
state it clearly and not from emotion..
I have. Any real objections?

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Re: The Holocaust Denying Bishop

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:44 am

VFX wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote: Again, the lack of substance, general piffle, obnoxious condescension.
Why are you looking in the mirror and exposing your lack of intellectual hygiene to the world, including your warts.
Your days are done.
LOL let's compare contributions to, oh, I dunno, the EGs thread . . .
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Re: The Holocaust Denying Bishop

Post by VFX » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:48 am

NathanC wrote:
VFX wrote:
NathanC wrote:Truth speaks for itself, and neither it nor I require validation from someone like you.
state it clearly and not from emotion..
I have. Any real objections?
Not from what I've seen but I am new to this forum stuff. Being a newbie and all that perhaps you might give some of your insights. Please.