Split: Debaters

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Denying-History
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Re: Split: Debaters

Post by Denying-History » Sat Sep 01, 2018 3:30 am

> Weber...debating an informed and intelligent denier. <

Imagine not knowing the two things wrong with this statement.
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
Joseph E. Davies

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Re: Split: Debaters

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Sep 01, 2018 5:48 am

Balmoral95 wrote:
Pyrrho wrote:Short form:
It was a joke.

Long form:
Had I expected that my intentional inclusion of the phrase, "don't quote me on that," as a joke, knowing that someone would quote me because I had included that statement, would result in an off-topic discussion in a thread that was split from the original topic because it was an off-topic discussion, I probably would not have included "don't quote me on that."

Maybe someone should convene a "debate" on the subject of what is a joke, etc. I am sure people would pay good money to ask that someone to cancel the debate.

This is beginning to resemble the spin cycle in a laundromat washing machine that has a busted off switch.
Check out the JFK assassination forum at JREFs (or whatever it's called now) for comparative purposes. I'll guarantee when you get back here you'll be glad you did. :mrgreen:
I've been expecting this one to open a new "decorum and manners" thread, "Miss montgomery's Guide to Excruciatingly Correct Behavior." Seems to be montgomery's main focus, the Holocaust not so much.
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Re: Split: Debaters

Post by montgomery » Sat Sep 01, 2018 4:07 pm

You haven't stopped pleading for a bit of denial and you call me 'miss' because I'm not giving you enough.
Spam that's too good to ignore!

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Re: Split: Debaters

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Sep 01, 2018 4:22 pm

Anyone looking for a forum that is keenly protective of decorum, politeness and other society niceties might have checked out ISF. Oddly enough, there have only been deniers from the HD threads there that have earned lifetime bans. Go figure.
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Re: Split: Debaters

Post by montgomery » Sat Sep 01, 2018 4:55 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Anyone looking for a forum that is keenly protective of decorum, politeness and other society niceties might have checked out ISF. Oddly enough, there have only been deniers from the HD threads there that have earned lifetime bans. Go figure.
Can you provide a link to whatever 'ISF' means? I would like to look into what you're saying about the deniers who were banned from the HD threads. What HD threads?

A reason to ban somebody can be rightfully justified and at other times not warranted. I can't comment further on the investigations I've done on those who were banned on this forum so I'm wondering if the trend I've noticed is consistent on others. It's my opinion that indecent remarks and continual spamming would be reasons for banning a person. But not for expressing an opinion.

Thanks ahead of time for the reference!

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Re: Split: Debaters

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Sep 01, 2018 5:04 pm

montgomery wrote:Can you provide a link to whatever 'ISF' means?
A sleuth like yourself can no doubt figure all this out.
montgomery wrote:I can't comment further on the investigations I've done on those who were banned on this forum
Best keep it top secret. No telling what might happen if you commented further. On your "investigations."
montgomery wrote:It's my opinion that indecent remarks and continual spamming would be reasons for banning a person. But not for expressing an opinion.
What a small world you seem to inhabit.
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Re: Split: Debaters

Post by montgomery » Sat Sep 01, 2018 5:15 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
montgomery wrote:Can you provide a link to whatever 'ISF' means?
A sleuth like yourself can no doubt figure all this out.
montgomery wrote:I can't comment further on the investigations I've done on those who were banned on this forum
Best keep it top secret. No telling what might happen if you commented further. On your "investigations."
montgomery wrote:It's my opinion that indecent remarks and continual spamming would be reasons for banning a person. But not for expressing an opinion.
What a small world you seem to inhabit.
I've asked you politely for a link but you still haven't gotten over your anger. I assumed that if you referred to a site then you would want me to know what you're talking about. I'm not the sleuth you might think I am so I can't guess. Maybe later? Or maybe somebody else will know? Have a nice day!

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Re: Split: Debaters

Post by nickterry » Sat Sep 01, 2018 5:17 pm

See the various mega-threads tagged here:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/fo ... ust+denial

ISF moderation is stringent for things like off-topic derails, bickering, personal attacks and so on. However, they bend over backwards to give members a chance to realise what they are doing wrong. Irrelevant bickering is cut out of threads and dumped in 'Abandon all Hope', actual infractions are given yellow cards, a certain number of yellow cards may trigger a 1 day suspension, repeated infractions earn escalating suspensions, after 5-6 suspensions, which might end with (secret) probation for a month or more, a banning is issued.

So it takes quite a lot of work to get banned from ISF.

(One good way of accelerating the process is to whine about moderation and complain about every single yellow card received.)

A variety of members on *both* sides who posted in the early 'general Holocaust denial discussion threads' have since been banned. Starting backwards from the end of the first thread, 'dafydd' was very much an anti-denier, he was eventually banned for infractions elsewhere on the forum, ditto for 'R.A.F' - not a denier. 'Clayton Moore' was an especially unpleasant character who believed in multiple conspiracy theories, was an anti-vaxxer and a Holocaust denier - he was banned after several years of irritating half the forum; by contrast 'SnakeTongue' was a Brazilian Holocaust denier who remains unbanned; he simply gave up posting. 'SpringHallConvert' flirted with denial but was banned really for trolling conspiracy theory threads.

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Re: Split: Debaters

Post by montgomery » Sat Sep 01, 2018 5:43 pm

nickterry wrote:See the various mega-threads tagged here:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/fo ... ust+denial

ISF moderation is stringent for things like off-topic derails, bickering, personal attacks and so on. However, they bend over backwards to give members a chance to realise what they are doing wrong. Irrelevant bickering is cut out of threads and dumped in 'Abandon all Hope', actual infractions are given yellow cards, a certain number of yellow cards may trigger a 1 day suspension, repeated infractions earn escalating suspensions, after 5-6 suspensions, which might end with (secret) probation for a month or more, a banning is issued.

So it takes quite a lot of work to get banned from ISF.

(One good way of accelerating the process is to whine about moderation and complain about every single yellow card received.)

A variety of members on *both* sides who posted in the early 'general Holocaust denial discussion threads' have since been banned. Starting backwards from the end of the first thread, 'dafydd' was very much an anti-denier, he was eventually banned for infractions elsewhere on the forum, ditto for 'R.A.F' - not a denier. 'Clayton Moore' was an especially unpleasant character who believed in multiple conspiracy theories, was an anti-vaxxer and a Holocaust denier - he was banned after several years of irritating half the forum; by contrast 'SnakeTongue' was a Brazilian Holocaust denier who remains unbanned; he simply gave up posting. 'SpringHallConvert' flirted with denial but was banned really for trolling conspiracy theory threads.
Thank you Nick! I'll check it out but I have to just say that a decent and polite answer such as that leads me to believe you're being truthful in your analysis on the reasons for banning. Not to say that I'm not skeptical when it comes to the topic of holocaust claims from both sides of the debate.

Having said that, I'm still somewhat partial to the stance being taken by the moderator (s) of this forum. The level of spamming and childish behavior is clearly indicative of those members' credibility. That's the upside of an asset I wouldn't want to see taken away.

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Re: Split: Debaters

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Sep 01, 2018 8:22 pm

Little Grey Rabbit was also banned from ISF. Traynor might have been, I forget. Thanks, Nick, for mentioning dafydd and R.A.F, I wasn't aware that they were banned. I don't recall R.A.F. but did post there when dafydd did.
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Re: Split: Debaters

Post by Balmoral95 » Sat Sep 01, 2018 8:39 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Little Grey Rabbit was also banned from ISF. Traynor might have been, I forget. Thanks, Nick, for mentioning dafydd and R.A.F, I wasn't aware that they were banned. I don't recall R.A.F. but did post there when dafydd did.
Iirc, Traynor didn't get banned so much as he banned himself and then claimed he was banned. :lol:

Translation: He got hung up on the moderation policy there, threw a hissy fit about censorship and left.

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Re: Split: Debaters

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Sep 01, 2018 8:46 pm

Balmoral95 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Little Grey Rabbit was also banned from ISF. Traynor might have been, I forget. Thanks, Nick, for mentioning dafydd and R.A.F, I wasn't aware that they were banned. I don't recall R.A.F. but did post there when dafydd did.
Iirc, Traynor didn't get banned so much as he banned himself and then claimed he was banned. :lol:

Translation: He got hung up on the moderation policy there, threw a hissy fit about censorship and left.
Figures.
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Re: Split: Debaters

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:00 pm

I got tired of ISF because of the format and the ballistic moderation.
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
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Re: Split: Debaters

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:01 pm

Nowadays it doth crawl. Or sit. The moderation is inconsistent to the point of daffiness, despite its rigidity and rule-bound quality.
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Re: Split: Debaters

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:09 pm

Popped back, last post was by Nessie on August 7th.

It bugs me just having the one thread to discuss the subject.
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

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Re: Split: Debaters

Post by Darren Wilshak » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:35 pm

Every time a decent debate on ISF gets going they put the thing on moderation and kill the ebb and flow.

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Re: Split: Debaters

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:43 pm

It’s why I don’t post there.
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

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Re: Split: Debaters

Post by Balmoral95 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:34 am

Darren Wilshak wrote:Every time a decent debate on ISF gets going they put the thing on moderation and kill the ebb and flow.
Never liked it there going back to Jref days... which was when i bailed.

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Re: Split: Debaters

Post by Darren Wilshak » Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:58 am

Too controlling by half even when it was JREF.

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Re: Split: Debaters

Post by montgomery » Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:00 pm

What is ISF? Can somebody provide a link?

edit; never mind, I checked back over the old posts and found it.
Last edited by montgomery on Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Split: Debaters

Post by ElectricMonk » Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:03 pm


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Re: Split: Debaters

Post by montgomery » Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:04 pm

See my edit. Thanks anyway.

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Re: Split: Debaters

Post by montgomery » Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:09 pm

Had a quick look. Can you tell me if they have a holocaust section? That's my main interest right now.

Anyone? Thanks.

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Re: Split: Debaters

Post by nickterry » Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:51 pm

montgomery wrote:
Had a quick look. Can you tell me if they have a holocaust section? That's my main interest right now.

Anyone? Thanks.
No, they have Holocaust threads - see the link I gave to threads tagged with 'Holocaust denial', a few posts up.

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Re: Split: Debaters

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:14 pm

I check the current ISF Holocaust denial thread often to see if anything interesting pops up; no activity has taken place since a handful of posts around the beginning of August. The thread has been off moderation for some time, but the last period of moderation seems to have chased off most of the deniers (e.g., Saggy - a Top Ten Honoree - who had been very active) disappeared about that time. EtienneSC departed before that, I can only conclude as his arguments ran out of, er, steam.
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Re: Split: Debaters

Post by montgomery » Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:13 pm

nickterry wrote:
montgomery wrote:
Had a quick look. Can you tell me if they have a holocaust section? That's my main interest right now.

Anyone? Thanks.
No, they have Holocaust threads - see the link I gave to threads tagged with 'Holocaust denial', a few posts up.
Thanks Nick.