Edgar Julius Jung: The Marburg Speech and the Beginning of German Resistance

Discussions
User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 9K Posts
Posts: 9591
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Edgar Julius Jung: The Marburg Speech and the Beginning of German Resistance

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:27 pm

I wanted to bring this up as a point of discussion and to relay some information I learned about Edgar Jung.

I know him as the man who helped author Papen’s Marburg University Speech that Papen gave on June 17th, 1934. What I didn’t know was his background or how his involvement led to the beginnings of German resistance to Adolf Hitler.

Jung started out as a radical nationalist activist in Bavaria (yes, Bavaria, shocking, eh?). He led an assassination squad that murdered a Rhineland separatist that Jung considered a traitor. Fiercely ambitious and known as a difficult man to get along with, his commanding officer noted that his “manners require constant instruction.” His friend Fritz Gunther von Tschirschky (a much more likable man) noted that he was “not entirely easy to handle.”

Jung was anti-democratic and anti-Weimar. He wanted to bring back a structured society governed by Christian values. He wanted no involvement by “the masses” in politics and wanted a society where leadership would be determined by education and natural talent. It goes without saying he considered himself to be a leader in that mold. Ruhr industrialists backed him due to his hostility to democracy and his elitism with the steel magnate Paul Reusch becoming his patron.

Jung experienced something of a conversion when the Nazis came to power. To Jung the Nazis and Hitler represented another form of Weimar, just another expression of the unwashed, unruly and uneducated masses. He felt contempt for their violence, their anti-Christian views and their contempt for the law. He later wrote that because the conservatives were responsible for him they needed to remove him.

He wound up in von Papen’s circle. He became part of a team of “clear-eyed, brave young men” that joined Papen’s office in order to use his seemingly strong position as a base for anti-Nazi resistance. These men quickly figured out that Papen lacked the willpower to be the centerpiece of anti-Nazi resistance (Tschirschky found himself more impressed with Papen’s wife Martha. Martha expressed nothing but contempt for Hitler. She called him a “Dodo” and refused to give the Nazi salute even when Hitler was present).

The men changed tactics, propping up Papen and appealing to his vanity. The core of this group of men revolved around Jung, two men named Bose and Kettler and Tschirschky. The men’s activities brought them to the attention of the Gestapo who tapped their phones and shadowed them. Once Alfred Rosenberg complained about a press leak to Hitler who gestured to Papen’s Office and said, “Yes, that’s where it all comes from, someday I’ll have the whole office cleared out.”

The men around Papen moved from attempting to help those persecuted by the Nazis (to their credit they assisted anyone, Jews, Catholics, Protestants, Communists, Social Democrats, etc.) to active forms of resistance. They leaked information, attempted to persuade Reichstag deputies to vote against the Enabling Act and submitted a list of opposition candidates for the November 12th vote in hopes of setting up an opposition block in the Reichstag. They reached out to dissidents, including Otto Strasser. They contacted former Chancellor Schleicher and his defense minister. They also pulled in Carl Goerdeler and Julius Leber, two men later involved with Operation Valkyrie. Jung actually contemplated assassinating Hitler but was persuaded to drop the matter.

The men around Papen turned to having Papen report on the negative conditions inside Germany to Hindenburg. This report would center around the radical activities of the SA, causing the army to respond. The group hoped that Hindenburg would declare martial law, suspend the constitution and take power. This would lead to a transitional government that would lead to a National Assembly to draft a new constitution. At this time there was a lull in the enthusiasm for Hitler and the regime, people were tired of the lawlessness of the SA, workers were angry over the destruction of their unions and the economy had not picked up.

This is where the Marburg Speech comes in. The group around Papen wanted him to give a speech that would raise his approval level so that when he reported to Hindenburg it would persuade Hindenburg to back Papen and declare martial law.

Jung wrote the speech. At first Papen tried to water it down but Tschirschky persuaded him to give the speech without altering it.

Jung pressed for a common European market, a rejection of fascism, freedom of the press and the creation of a system of European justice. The speech was a hit and Papen received thunderous applause. The group around Papen anticipated the response of the Nazi government by releasing Papen’s speech before he gave it. Goebbels immediately blocked it and Hitler exploded over the news. The Gestapo raided the Germania printing house and confiscated copies of the speech. Hitler sent his press secretary Walter Funk to Hindenburg stating that he could no longer work with Papen.

Due to this quick reaction the plans of Papen’s group quickly unraveled. Papen enjoyed the positive publicity but lacked the decisiveness to back up this positive reaction. Hitler expressed outrage to Papen over Goebbels suppression of the speech but still wouldn’t release it. He also refused to accept Papen’s threatened resignation and played on his vanity. Papen backed down and would not go see Hindenburg.

It’s likely it wouldn’t have done any good. Hindenburg approved of the suppression of Papen’s speech and was very friendly to Hitler when Hitler saw him a few days later.

It was quiet for about two weeks. Then, events exploded on June 30th, 1934. Hitler suppressed the SA and took the opportunity to settle the score with some of his enemies. Among those murdered at the time were Jung and Bose while Tschirschky fled to Great Britain. Kettler was temporarily spared by a diplomatic posting in Austria but either the Gestapo or the SS murdered him in 1938 during the annexation of Austria.

I summarized this from The Death of Democracy: Hitler’s Rise to Power and the Downfall of the Weimar Republic. It’s from Chapter Eight.
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 9K Posts
Posts: 9591
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: Edgar Julius Jung: The Marburg Speech and the Beginning of German Resistance

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:38 pm

LOL, well, this failed to grab anyone’s attention.
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

Balmoral95
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2470
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:14 am
Location: The Free Nambia Healthcare Nirvana

Re: Edgar Julius Jung: The Marburg Speech and the Beginning of German Resistance

Post by Balmoral95 » Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:57 am

I wouldn't jump to the conclusion of no interest.... particularly on a holiday...

Quick response.... Papen was a slimey, duplicitous piece of {!#%@}.

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Real Skeptic
Posts: 23276
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: Edgar Julius Jung: The Marburg Speech and the Beginning of German Resistance

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:41 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:LOL, well, this failed to grab anyone’s attention.
Au contraire, I read it, was glad you posted it as it had background I wasn't aware of, and didn't comment on account of my not having anything to add! :)
"It was still at the stage of clubs and fists, hurrah, tala"

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 9K Posts
Posts: 9591
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: Edgar Julius Jung: The Marburg Speech and the Beginning of German Resistance

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:49 am

Danke. Yes, jumped to the wrong conclusion on the interest level. I really do recommend that book by Hett, it’s filled with details that I didn’t know.
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 9K Posts
Posts: 9591
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: Edgar Julius Jung: The Marburg Speech and the Beginning of German Resistance

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:56 pm

BTW, ironically Hindenburg supported Hitler also due to his fear of getting impeached. He thought that without Hitler’s support the Communists/Socialists would move forward with impeachment proceedings.
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

User avatar
Upton_O_Goode
Perpetual Poster
Posts: 4566
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:15 am
Custom Title: Dwayne de Schwamp
Location: The Land Formerly Known as Pangea

Re: Edgar Julius Jung: The Marburg Speech and the Beginning of German Resistance

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:01 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:27 pm
I wanted to bring this up as a point of discussion and to relay some information I learned about Edgar Jung.

I know him as the man who helped author Papen’s Marburg University Speech that Papen gave on June 17th, 1934. What I didn’t know was his background or how his involvement led to the beginnings of German resistance to Adolf Hitler.

Jung started out as a radical nationalist activist in Bavaria (yes, Bavaria, shocking, eh?). He led an assassination squad that murdered a Rhineland separatist that Jung considered a traitor. Fiercely ambitious and known as a difficult man to get along with, his commanding officer noted that his “manners require constant instruction.” His friend Fritz Gunther von Tschirschky (a much more likable man) noted that he was “not entirely easy to handle.”

Jung was anti-democratic and anti-Weimar. He wanted to bring back a structured society governed by Christian values. He wanted no involvement by “the masses” in politics and wanted a society where leadership would be determined by education and natural talent. It goes without saying he considered himself to be a leader in that mold. Ruhr industrialists backed him due to his hostility to democracy and his elitism with the steel magnate Paul Reusch becoming his patron.

Jung experienced something of a conversion when the Nazis came to power. To Jung the Nazis and Hitler represented another form of Weimar, just another expression of the unwashed, unruly and uneducated masses. He felt contempt for their violence, their anti-Christian views and their contempt for the law. He later wrote that because the conservatives were responsible for him they needed to remove him.

He wound up in von Papen’s circle. He became part of a team of “clear-eyed, brave young men” that joined Papen’s office in order to use his seemingly strong position as a base for anti-Nazi resistance. These men quickly figured out that Papen lacked the willpower to be the centerpiece of anti-Nazi resistance (Tschirschky found himself more impressed with Papen’s wife Martha. Martha expressed nothing but contempt for Hitler. She called him a “Dodo” and refused to give the Nazi salute even when Hitler was present).

The men changed tactics, propping up Papen and appealing to his vanity. The core of this group of men revolved around Jung, two men named Bose and Kettler and Tschirschky. The men’s activities brought them to the attention of the Gestapo who tapped their phones and shadowed them. Once Alfred Rosenberg complained about a press leak to Hitler who gestured to Papen’s Office and said, “Yes, that’s where it all comes from, someday I’ll have the whole office cleared out.”

The men around Papen moved from attempting to help those persecuted by the Nazis (to their credit they assisted anyone, Jews, Catholics, Protestants, Communists, Social Democrats, etc.) to active forms of resistance. They leaked information, attempted to persuade Reichstag deputies to vote against the Enabling Act and submitted a list of opposition candidates for the November 12th vote in hopes of setting up an opposition block in the Reichstag. They reached out to dissidents, including Otto Strasser. They contacted former Chancellor Schleicher and his defense minister. They also pulled in Carl Goerdeler and Julius Leber, two men later involved with Operation Valkyrie. Jung actually contemplated assassinating Hitler but was persuaded to drop the matter.

The men around Papen turned to having Papen report on the negative conditions inside Germany to Hindenburg. This report would center around the radical activities of the SA, causing the army to respond. The group hoped that Hindenburg would declare martial law, suspend the constitution and take power. This would lead to a transitional government that would lead to a National Assembly to draft a new constitution. At this time there was a lull in the enthusiasm for Hitler and the regime, people were tired of the lawlessness of the SA, workers were angry over the destruction of their unions and the economy had not picked up.

This is where the Marburg Speech comes in. The group around Papen wanted him to give a speech that would raise his approval level so that when he reported to Hindenburg it would persuade Hindenburg to back Papen and declare martial law.

Jung wrote the speech. At first Papen tried to water it down but Tschirschky persuaded him to give the speech without altering it.

Jung pressed for a common European market, a rejection of fascism, freedom of the press and the creation of a system of European justice. The speech was a hit and Papen received thunderous applause. The group around Papen anticipated the response of the Nazi government by releasing Papen’s speech before he gave it. Goebbels immediately blocked it and Hitler exploded over the news. The Gestapo raided the Germania printing house and confiscated copies of the speech. Hitler sent his press secretary Walter Funk to Hindenburg stating that he could no longer work with Papen.

Due to this quick reaction the plans of Papen’s group quickly unraveled. Papen enjoyed the positive publicity but lacked the decisiveness to back up this positive reaction. Hitler expressed outrage to Papen over Goebbels suppression of the speech but still wouldn’t release it. He also refused to accept Papen’s threatened resignation and played on his vanity. Papen backed down and would not go see Hindenburg.

It’s likely it wouldn’t have done any good. Hindenburg approved of the suppression of Papen’s speech and was very friendly to Hitler when Hitler saw him a few days later.

It was quiet for about two weeks. Then, events exploded on June 30th, 1934. Hitler suppressed the SA and took the opportunity to settle the score with some of his enemies. Among those murdered at the time were Jung and Bose while Tschirschky fled to Great Britain. Kettler was temporarily spared by a diplomatic posting in Austria but either the Gestapo or the SS murdered him in 1938 during the annexation of Austria.

I summarized this from The Death of Democracy: Hitler’s Rise to Power and the Downfall of the Weimar Republic. It’s from Chapter Eight.
Thanks much. That does clarify a lot of the resistance. Hindenburg, I think, was totally senile. Otherwise, I can't imagine why he allowed Hitler to become chancellor. I'm sure this question has been explored by historians; weren't there alternatives to granting Hitler the powers that were gifted to him in 1933? The deeper I go into all this, the more I realize how superficial my education in it has been up to now.
“When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.”

― Frédéric Bastiat (1801–1850), French economist

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 9K Posts
Posts: 9591
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: Edgar Julius Jung: The Marburg Speech and the Beginning of German Resistance

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:26 am

Upton_O_Goode wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:01 pm

Thanks much. That does clarify a lot of the resistance. Hindenburg, I think, was totally senile. Otherwise, I can't imagine why he allowed Hitler to become chancellor. I'm sure this question has been explored by historians; weren't there alternatives to granting Hitler the powers that were gifted to him in 1933? The deeper I go into all this, the more I realize how superficial my education in it has been up to now.
The conservatives felt like they ran out of options. Better to let Hitler try (and possibly fail) than to lose whatever control they had left.

They also felt like they could control him, channel the Nazi mass movement to their ends. Needless to say they were very wrong and some were dead wrong.
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

Balmoral95
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2470
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:14 am
Location: The Free Nambia Healthcare Nirvana

Re: Edgar Julius Jung: The Marburg Speech and the Beginning of German Resistance

Post by Balmoral95 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:54 am

Papen was a slimey piece of shite who didn't find Jesus until the SS came knocking on his door in June 1944. The conservs played a slippery game and ultimately lost...