What's going on in Poland?

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Upton_O_Goode
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What's going on in Poland?

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:39 am

This is really scary. I apologize if there's already a thread on this issue. I just got the memo this morning.

I don't like to stereotype, but I know too many anti-Semitic Poles to make me trust any official attempts to regulate what can be said about the Holocaust. Of course, I didn't like it when Canada forbade Holocaust denial, because I don't want to give the deniers any chance to claim they are persecuted. (They do, anyway, of course.) So I'd be against government regulation in this area anywhere, but especially in Poland.
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Re: What's going on in Poland?

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:53 am

INCE started this thread a week or so ago: viewtopic.php?f=39&t=29058
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Re: What's going on in Poland?

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:03 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:INCE started this thread a week or so ago: viewtopic.php?f=39&t=29058
Thanks. And never mind, to all who took the trouble to read my post.
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Re: What's going on in Poland?

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:14 pm

LOL - INCE was on the case!
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Re: What's going on in Poland?

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:27 pm

Deleted. (Moved to the other thread on this issue.)
"[D]uring the last years that I carried a gun my excuse was that I was studying ornithology, and sought only new or rare birds."

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Re: What's going on in Poland?

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:34 pm

"It was still at the stage of clubs and fists, hurrah, tala"

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Re: What's going on in Poland?

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:42 pm

FFS, what is wrong with people????
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
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Re: What's going on in Poland?

Post by OlegTheBatty » Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:58 pm

Upton_O_Goode wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:39 am
I didn't like it when Canada forbade Holocaust denial,
Sorry, I missed this back when . . probably because I didn't follow the holocaust denial subforum.

Holocaust denial is not illegal in Canada. If parliament tried to ban it, the Supreme Court would shoot it down. They already did in R. v. Zundel

Per La Forest, L'Heureux‑Dubé, Sopinka and McLachlin JJ.: Section 181 of the Code infringes the guarantee of freedom of expression. Section 2 (b) of the Charter protects the right of a minority to express its view, however unpopular it may be. All communications which convey or attempt to convey meaning are protected by s. 2 (b), unless the physical form by which the communication is made (for example, a violent act) excludes protection. The content of the communication is irrelevant. The purpose of the guarantee is to permit free expression to the end of promoting truth, political or social participation, and self‑fulfilment. That purpose extends to the protection of minority beliefs which the majority regards as wrong or false. Section 181 , which may subject a person to criminal conviction and potential imprisonment because of words he published, has undeniably the effect of restricting freedom of expression and, therefore, imposes a limit on s. 2 (b).
Zundel's upheld conviction was for publicly exhorting violence in furtherance of his goal of a second holocaust.
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Re: What's going on in Poland?

Post by VFX » Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:28 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:58 pm


Zundel's upheld conviction was for publicly exhorting violence in furtherance of his goal of a second holocaust.
Oh really, it seems the Canadian courts follow the example of the NMT farce. I never really followed Zundels case only Irvings. I really can't remember Ernst demanding a second holocaust when he was denying there was a first one. Thanks Олег, I have a renewed interest in Mr Zundel.

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Re: What's going on in Poland?

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:44 pm

Oleg,

Zündel was convicted of incitement to hatred - namely knowingly publishing falsehoods likely to cause racial or other hatred IIRC. But in the early 1990s, my understanding is, the Canadian Supreme Court threw out his convictions and ruled that the so-called false news law was contrary to the constitution. So I don’t follow where you say his conviction was upheld.

SM
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Re: What's going on in Poland?

Post by OlegTheBatty » Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:01 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:44 pm
Oleg,

Zündel was convicted of incitement to hatred - namely knowingly publishing falsehoods likely to cause racial or other hatred IIRC. But in the early 1990s, my understanding is, the Canadian Supreme Court threw out his convictions and ruled that the so-called false news law was contrary to the constitution. So I don’t follow where you say his conviction was upheld.

SM
The case I cited was the pamphlet case, the SCOC tossing s.181.

As for 'second' holocaust', that is my phrasing. I think he was trying to get people to join him in completing the first one. And yes, the irony . . . but that's just it. The deniers know it happened. They want it to continue. I think mostly they want to minimize the perception of evil so they can live with themselves.
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Re: What's going on in Poland?

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:03 pm

For the record, I do not disagree with you about his mindset and intentions, using doublespeak and updated tactics.
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Re: What's going on in Poland?

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:15 pm

Thanks guys. Consider me updated. My information on this was of a general nature, provided by my Canadian son-in-law.
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Re: What's going on in Poland?

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:47 am

I found an old post I made on Zündel on another forum:
A colleague of mine has studied Zündel's career and trial in depth (I haven't, for example, reviewed first-hand the history of Zündel's writings and advocacy, his website or the books/pamphlets/etc he sold). Some of relevant points made by my colleague, based on his review of primary and secondary literature, including trial materials, include:
- as a young emigre from Germany to Canada, Zündel (a graphic artist at the time) became close to, and a protege of, French-Canadian fascist Adrien Arcand
- Zündel's early activism centered on the link between supposed anti-German hate and Holocaust "skepticism"; Zündel's linkage of supposed anti-German bigotry, Zionist hate, and Holocaust denial remained themes during the rest of his career (Zündel seems to have been one of those whose HD motivation stemmed in part from a nostalgic, defensive view of German heritage)
- when he moved to Toronto in the '70s Zündel began disseminating political tracts - which supported Nazism and defended Germans from supposed hate; he also began writing and doing illustrations (under the pseudonym Christof Friedrich, see below) for racist publications; by '78 Zündel was publicly protesting the TV miniseries “Holocaust” as “another example of the hate we Germans are subjected to in our schools and on TV.”
- by the '80s Zündel had established Samisdat Publishers to distribute - to customers in 45 countries - pro-Nazi publications, Nazi memorabilia, and HD materials (e.g., "Did Six Million Really Die?" written by British fascist Richard Verrall using the name Richard Harwood); in the face of complaints against Samisdat the Canadian postal authorities found that Zündel's operation was “in bad taste and no doubt offensive to some” but merely reflective of the struggle between Germans and Jews (!) and thus legal
- Zündel's defense of German heritage depended on his identification of the Jews as [people] who attacked Germans and Germany; he depicted Holocaust history as a Zionist scam and instrument of vilification of Germans
- the famous trials of Zündel, under Canada's false news law, came later, as he continued his propaganda activities

PHDN has collected some examples of Zündel's statements, writings, and activities here; this small assortment includes short excerpts from a book Zündel co-authored with Eric Thomson (who coined the phrase ZOG) entitled "The Hitler We Loved and Why" (longer excerpt found here).

It is because of this record, not media dishonesty, that historians and others describe Zündel as a neo-Nazi. Sad fact: you promote Hitler and anti-Semitism, people will describe you for what you are. If a propagandist for Hitler complains on being so described, he's not only a neo-Nazi but gutless.
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Re: What's going on in Poland?

Post by Gord » Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:57 am

"Cost of Freedom" sounds like a fake game, a take-off on the name "Price of Freedom" which is an actual, current game on Steam: link

My impression of this "coincidence" was helped by the actual "Cost of Freedom" website -- https://www.cof-game.com/ -- which not only looks like crap, but claims the video on Youtube put up by Pierro Cocco -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcpUCe_Gm9g -- was "fake":
it's a fake video, fake account
But I can't read cyrillic. Anybody know what this means?
Сессионная онлайн-игра в режиме стелс-выживния.
Someone's also put this up online: https://forums.unrealengine.com/communi ... 18-release
The Cost of Freedom. Trailer. Dec 2018 release.
08-22-2018, 07:55 PM

Hello, watch our trailer for indie game
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAXIFP4ZqUo&t=
www.cof-game.com
https://vk.com/club167026468
https://www.facebook.com/groups/CostF...
cofgame2018@gmail.com
Same weird prisoner camp theme.
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