Best stand-alone evidence?

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BRoI
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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Post by BRoI » Wed May 02, 2018 9:37 pm

The letter was written by Vilma Grunwald only moments before she and her eldest son were forced into a gas chamber at Auschwitz on July 11, 1944.

Originally Vilma was placed into a Czech family camp at Auschwitz with her husband Kurt and her two sons John and Misa. However, shortly after arriving the family was put through the selection process together in front of Dr. Josef Mengele.

http://www.businessinsider.com/this-mot ... ?r=UK&IR=T
"shortly after arriving" - She was sent to Auschwitz eight month prior to the date of this letter.
Transport Dr, no. 731 (15. 12. 1943, Terezín -> Auschwitz)

https://www.holocaust.cz/en/database-of ... -nwaldova/
https://www.geni.com/people/Vilma-Gr%C3 ... 2352102326
"I believe that when the history of the [Great] war comes to be impartially written, the two greatest results will be the establishment of the national Jewish home and the creation of the League of Nations. The two are not really disconnected. They represent the two great ideas for which we fought and by which we conquered—the ideas of nationalism and internationalism."
- Robert Cecil, 1st Viscount Cecil of Chelwood, March 1923.

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Post by BRoI » Wed May 02, 2018 9:41 pm

In the first days of July, camp physician Josef Mengele carried out a “selection” that sent 3,800 young, healthy men and women to other camps. The remaining 7,000 Jews, including women and children, were exterminated in the gas chambers on the nights of July 10-11 and 11-12. Thus was the Familienlager liquidated.

http://auschwitz.org/en/museum/news/the ... z,372.html
"I believe that when the history of the [Great] war comes to be impartially written, the two greatest results will be the establishment of the national Jewish home and the creation of the League of Nations. The two are not really disconnected. They represent the two great ideas for which we fought and by which we conquered—the ideas of nationalism and internationalism."
- Robert Cecil, 1st Viscount Cecil of Chelwood, March 1923.

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Wed May 02, 2018 10:55 pm

Thank you for the correction.
“They say..that in Slonim they gathered in the town square 14,000 people...and all were machine-gunned. I ask you, is it possible to believe such a thing?...How can the world remain silent? It is probably not true.”
Calel Perechodnik, Polish Jew, 1942

https://twitter.com/jonronson/status/10 ... 24832?s=21

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:22 pm

Bumping this for my Twitter friends....

:D
“They say..that in Slonim they gathered in the town square 14,000 people...and all were machine-gunned. I ask you, is it possible to believe such a thing?...How can the world remain silent? It is probably not true.”
Calel Perechodnik, Polish Jew, 1942

https://twitter.com/jonronson/status/10 ... 24832?s=21

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:32 pm

I’m bumping this to add this from HC:

https://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot ... ?m=1#_ftn2

I want to go through it later but I need to get some work done.
“They say..that in Slonim they gathered in the town square 14,000 people...and all were machine-gunned. I ask you, is it possible to believe such a thing?...How can the world remain silent? It is probably not true.”
Calel Perechodnik, Polish Jew, 1942

https://twitter.com/jonronson/status/10 ... 24832?s=21

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:17 pm

“They say..that in Slonim they gathered in the town square 14,000 people...and all were machine-gunned. I ask you, is it possible to believe such a thing?...How can the world remain silent? It is probably not true.”
Calel Perechodnik, Polish Jew, 1942

https://twitter.com/jonronson/status/10 ... 24832?s=21

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri Jul 27, 2018 12:20 pm

Bump to make this thread easier to track down...
“They say..that in Slonim they gathered in the town square 14,000 people...and all were machine-gunned. I ask you, is it possible to believe such a thing?...How can the world remain silent? It is probably not true.”
Calel Perechodnik, Polish Jew, 1942

https://twitter.com/jonronson/status/10 ... 24832?s=21

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:00 am



Can’t claim torture with this one...
“They say..that in Slonim they gathered in the town square 14,000 people...and all were machine-gunned. I ask you, is it possible to believe such a thing?...How can the world remain silent? It is probably not true.”
Calel Perechodnik, Polish Jew, 1942

https://twitter.com/jonronson/status/10 ... 24832?s=21

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:20 am

Thanks, that's from the Einsatzgruppen: The Death Brigades documentary mentioned in the "Confessions of Nazi crimes by common people?" thread, I did not know it was online, very nice find!
"It was still at the stage of clubs and fists, hurrah, tala"

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:23 am

Thanks, I have it on for white noise while I’m doing stuff. That came on so I wanted to hunt it down.
“They say..that in Slonim they gathered in the town square 14,000 people...and all were machine-gunned. I ask you, is it possible to believe such a thing?...How can the world remain silent? It is probably not true.”
Calel Perechodnik, Polish Jew, 1942

https://twitter.com/jonronson/status/10 ... 24832?s=21

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:24 am

It’s sad I have something like that on as white noise... :D
“They say..that in Slonim they gathered in the town square 14,000 people...and all were machine-gunned. I ask you, is it possible to believe such a thing?...How can the world remain silent? It is probably not true.”
Calel Perechodnik, Polish Jew, 1942

https://twitter.com/jonronson/status/10 ... 24832?s=21

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:51 am

Bump
“They say..that in Slonim they gathered in the town square 14,000 people...and all were machine-gunned. I ask you, is it possible to believe such a thing?...How can the world remain silent? It is probably not true.”
Calel Perechodnik, Polish Jew, 1942

https://twitter.com/jonronson/status/10 ... 24832?s=21

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:24 pm

Bump
“They say..that in Slonim they gathered in the town square 14,000 people...and all were machine-gunned. I ask you, is it possible to believe such a thing?...How can the world remain silent? It is probably not true.”
Calel Perechodnik, Polish Jew, 1942

https://twitter.com/jonronson/status/10 ... 24832?s=21

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:10 pm

“They say..that in Slonim they gathered in the town square 14,000 people...and all were machine-gunned. I ask you, is it possible to believe such a thing?...How can the world remain silent? It is probably not true.”
Calel Perechodnik, Polish Jew, 1942

https://twitter.com/jonronson/status/10 ... 24832?s=21

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:26 am

Bump
“They say..that in Slonim they gathered in the town square 14,000 people...and all were machine-gunned. I ask you, is it possible to believe such a thing?...How can the world remain silent? It is probably not true.”
Calel Perechodnik, Polish Jew, 1942

https://twitter.com/jonronson/status/10 ... 24832?s=21

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:58 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:00 am


Can’t claim torture with this one...
“They say..that in Slonim they gathered in the town square 14,000 people...and all were machine-gunned. I ask you, is it possible to believe such a thing?...How can the world remain silent? It is probably not true.”
Calel Perechodnik, Polish Jew, 1942

https://twitter.com/jonronson/status/10 ... 24832?s=21

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Post by Oozy_Substance » Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:04 pm

This doesn't prove extermination, but does prove the horrible treatment by Nazis towards Jews :



Has anyone here heard of it? I Didn't see it discussed here.

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:11 pm

Of what?
"It was still at the stage of clubs and fists, hurrah, tala"

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Post by Oozy_Substance » Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:45 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:11 pm
Of what?
Click on the twitter link. Is it not visible? I see it.

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:29 pm

Here are some of the pictures, I can do the other ones later:
Image
“They say..that in Slonim they gathered in the town square 14,000 people...and all were machine-gunned. I ask you, is it possible to believe such a thing?...How can the world remain silent? It is probably not true.”
Calel Perechodnik, Polish Jew, 1942

https://twitter.com/jonronson/status/10 ... 24832?s=21

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:29 pm

“They say..that in Slonim they gathered in the town square 14,000 people...and all were machine-gunned. I ask you, is it possible to believe such a thing?...How can the world remain silent? It is probably not true.”
Calel Perechodnik, Polish Jew, 1942

https://twitter.com/jonronson/status/10 ... 24832?s=21

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:03 pm

What is "it"? ... Avital's story? ... her grandfather's experience? ... the photo collection? ... frankly I am still confused!
"It was still at the stage of clubs and fists, hurrah, tala"

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Post by Oozy_Substance » Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:14 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:03 pm
What is "it"? ... Avital's story? ... her grandfather's experience? ... the photo collection? ... frankly I am still confused!
Pictures from Kristallnacht, found in old photo stash of this woman's grandfather, iirc.

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Post by Oozy_Substance » Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:14 pm

Saving this link here to read later.

http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/5/1/eaau7292

Contains interesting info about the magnitude of killing in the Reinhard Action camps.

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:23 pm

"It was still at the stage of clubs and fists, hurrah, tala"

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Post by Oozy_Substance » Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:36 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:23 pm
Rodoh thread on this: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12193
Despite the fact that this would result in millions of pounds of remains buried in precisely known locations, not one grave was excavated.
Do they still parrot this mantra despite all the excavations in Treblinka, Sobibor, Belzec, etc which revealed a great amount of ash and bones?

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:39 pm

Yes, they do. They find it compelling actually.
"It was still at the stage of clubs and fists, hurrah, tala"

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Post by Oozy_Substance » Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:48 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:39 pm
Yes, they do. They find it compelling actually.
They truly cling to the "re-settlement program" canard. That must be the 3rd Reich's greatest achievement. Re-settling millions of Jews in Poland and Russia without leaving a single trace for their existence for a period of over 7 decades now.

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:31 am

Oozy_Substance wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:48 pm
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:39 pm
Yes, they do. They find it compelling actually.
They truly cling to the "re-settlement program" canard. That must be the 3rd Reich's greatest achievement. Re-settling millions of Jews in Poland and Russia without leaving a single trace for their existence for a period of over 7 decades now.
Hey, Ursula Haverbeck said they all went beyond the Urals.
“They say..that in Slonim they gathered in the town square 14,000 people...and all were machine-gunned. I ask you, is it possible to believe such a thing?...How can the world remain silent? It is probably not true.”
Calel Perechodnik, Polish Jew, 1942

https://twitter.com/jonronson/status/10 ... 24832?s=21

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Post by Oozy_Substance » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:53 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:31 am
Oozy_Substance wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:48 pm
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:39 pm
Yes, they do. They find it compelling actually.
They truly cling to the "re-settlement program" canard. That must be the 3rd Reich's greatest achievement. Re-settling millions of Jews in Poland and Russia without leaving a single trace for their existence for a period of over 7 decades now.
Hey, Ursula Haverbeck said they all went beyond the Urals.
Beyond the Urals? Where to? Khabarovsk? Vladivostok? Lake Baikal? Sea of Okhotsk? Kamchatka Peninsula?
I wonder if any denier had the decency to try and put on the table one destination in the "Russian East" where Jews re-settled at.

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Post by Balmoral95 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:08 am

Oozy_Substance wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:53 am
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:31 am
Oozy_Substance wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:48 pm
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:39 pm
Yes, they do. They find it compelling actually.
They truly cling to the "re-settlement program" canard. That must be the 3rd Reich's greatest achievement. Re-settling millions of Jews in Poland and Russia without leaving a single trace for their existence for a period of over 7 decades now.
Hey, Ursula Haverbeck said they all went beyond the Urals.


Beyond the Urals? Where to? Khabarovsk? Vladivostok? Lake Baikal? Sea of Okhotsk? Kamchatka Peninsula?
I wonder if any denier had the decency to try and put on the table one destination in the "Russian East" where Jews re-settled at.
Isn't that the "beauty" of it?

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:20 pm

Oozy_Substance wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:53 am
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:31 am
Oozy_Substance wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:48 pm
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:39 pm
Yes, they do. They find it compelling actually.
They truly cling to the "re-settlement program" canard. That must be the 3rd Reich's greatest achievement. Re-settling millions of Jews in Poland and Russia without leaving a single trace for their existence for a period of over 7 decades now.
Hey, Ursula Haverbeck said they all went beyond the Urals.
Beyond the Urals? Where to? Khabarovsk? Vladivostok? Lake Baikal? Sea of Okhotsk? Kamchatka Peninsula?
I wonder if any denier had the decency to try and put on the table one destination in the "Russian East" where Jews re-settled at.
To say she didn’t think that through would be an understatement.
“They say..that in Slonim they gathered in the town square 14,000 people...and all were machine-gunned. I ask you, is it possible to believe such a thing?...How can the world remain silent? It is probably not true.”
Calel Perechodnik, Polish Jew, 1942

https://twitter.com/jonronson/status/10 ... 24832?s=21

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:17 pm

The general strategy they use here is as simple as it is tried and true, so to speak - it's all premised on their trying to create doubt amongst people who don't study the history closely and it relies on 3 cheap gimmicks. The recipe is:

- first, ignore as much evidence about mass killing as possible and distort what cannot be ignored (they think a key point here is mass graves, which they pretend are fictional by repeating a false assumption about what should exist today, on the one hand, and also by simply dismissing what has been traced and found)

- next, fill in the gap that's been manufactured with as many what-ifs as can be conjured, even if they are contradictory or nonsensical

- finally, wash, rinse, repeat

This approach preys on readers' lack of detailed knowledge about conditions in the East, the source base, and historiography concerning population movements during the war. The East is presented as a mysterious and dangerous cipher (Nazi style) where anything could have gone on and about which very little is known. The "argument" relies on dwelling on what is not readily apparent - and the fact that neither the denier nor the reader has the relevant information at hand is equated with the non-existence of the relevant evidence and discussion. Ridicule is essential and employed to the max to reinforce the supposedly self-evident nature of the false problems. Big red type is also often employed. Other standard methods are confusing things so that the neophyte gets lost, cherry-picking, using inventions and falsehoods, and fuzziness (create and magnify doubt . . . ).
"It was still at the stage of clubs and fists, hurrah, tala"

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:19 pm

I know deniers don’t like eyewitness testimony but often regurgitate tales of “electrocution” and “steam.”

This is Rudolf Reder’s testimony given in 1946:
https://dunekglik.files.wordpress.com/2 ... lation.pdf
“They say..that in Slonim they gathered in the town square 14,000 people...and all were machine-gunned. I ask you, is it possible to believe such a thing?...How can the world remain silent? It is probably not true.”
Calel Perechodnik, Polish Jew, 1942

https://twitter.com/jonronson/status/10 ... 24832?s=21

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Post by Darren Wilshak » Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:30 am

Ah yes you ignoramus but Thomas Kues says... ;-)

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Post by Balmoral95 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:02 am

Darren Wilshak wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:30 am
Ah yes you ignoramus but Thomas Kues says... ;-)

Ahhhh yes, Kues, who makes Mattogno look like the Tennyson of the Big H....