Mass Grave Surveys

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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by Balmoral95 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:23 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Balmoral95 wrote:
VFX wrote:
Denying-History wrote:
Anyway, how goes proving the AR camps were rouge operations?
Keep on the intention of the thread please which is to do with the Mass Grave Surveys. This is not concluded, so no one should be able to jump to the Einsatz camp situation based on this alone. This thread is interesting in itself for its own purposes. Who knows who the victims and the perpetrators were if there were. Is there evidence that these are not just old war graves. The area is closely correlated with eye witness testimony of an alleged atrocity. This is in no way verified at this point.
Who told you it is "unverified"?
so I guess the answer to D-H's aside is, "I still can't."
Yeah.

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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by Denying-History » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:28 am

VFX wrote:
Denying-History wrote:
Anyway, how goes proving the AR camps were rouge operations?
Keep on the intention of the thread please which is to do with the Mass Grave Surveys. This is not concluded, so no one should be able to jump to the Einsatz camp situation based on this alone. This thread is interesting in itself for its own purposes. Who knows who the victims and the perpetrators were if there were. Is there evidence that these are not just old war graves. The area is closely correlated with eye witness testimony of an alleged atrocity. This is in no way verified at this point.
Let me put this the clearest way possible because Mon was incapable of understanding "such things don't exist here". There is no real structure to this forum with regard to threads. This sub-board has no rules of "keeping on topic" and often can just devolve into discussion of modern politics or old bands. Now I am curious, do you still think the AR camps were rouge operations?
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:31 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Balmoral95 wrote:
VFX wrote:
Denying-History wrote:
Anyway, how goes proving the AR camps were rouge operations?
Keep on the intention of the thread please which is to do with the Mass Grave Surveys. This is not concluded, so no one should be able to jump to the Einsatz camp situation based on this alone. This thread is interesting in itself for its own purposes. Who knows who the victims and the perpetrators were if there were. Is there evidence that these are not just old war graves. The area is closely correlated with eye witness testimony of an alleged atrocity. This is in no way verified at this point.
Who told you it is "unverified"?
so I guess the answer to D-H's aside is, "I still can't."
Yep.
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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:33 am

Denying-History wrote:often can just devolve into discussion of modern politics or old bands.
or even contemporary bands :)
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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:33 am

Denying-History wrote:
VFX wrote:
Denying-History wrote:
Anyway, how goes proving the AR camps were rouge operations?
Keep on the intention of the thread please which is to do with the Mass Grave Surveys. This is not concluded, so no one should be able to jump to the Einsatz camp situation based on this alone. This thread is interesting in itself for its own purposes. Who knows who the victims and the perpetrators were if there were. Is there evidence that these are not just old war graves. The area is closely correlated with eye witness testimony of an alleged atrocity. This is in no way verified at this point.
Let me put this the clearest way possible because Mon was incapable of understanding "such things don't exist here". There is no real structure to this forum with regard to threads. This sub-board has no rules of "keeping on topic" and often can just devolve into discussion of modern politics or old bands. Now I am curious, do you still think the AR camps were rouge operations?
They know that, D-H. And good luck getting the troll(s) answering with anything but stilted garbage, insults and accusations.
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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by Denying-History » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:34 am

scrmbldggs wrote:
Denying-History wrote:
VFX wrote:
Denying-History wrote:
Anyway, how goes proving the AR camps were rouge operations?
Keep on the intention of the thread please which is to do with the Mass Grave Surveys. This is not concluded, so no one should be able to jump to the Einsatz camp situation based on this alone. This thread is interesting in itself for its own purposes. Who knows who the victims and the perpetrators were if there were. Is there evidence that these are not just old war graves. The area is closely correlated with eye witness testimony of an alleged atrocity. This is in no way verified at this point.
Let me put this the clearest way possible because Mon was incapable of understanding "such things don't exist here". There is no real structure to this forum with regard to threads. This sub-board has no rules of "keeping on topic" and often can just devolve into discussion of modern politics or old bands. Now I am curious, do you still think the AR camps were rouge operations?
They know that, D-H. And good luck getting the troll(s) answering with anything but stilted garbage, insults and accusations.
Well aware of that.
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by VFX » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:36 am

Denying-History wrote: Now I am curious, do you still think the AR camps were rouge operations?
As you asked for a personal opinion this is fine, but will change my mind with evidence. It would seem that all of the evidence from the Dutch Jews who passed through say Sobibor, it would seem that a few got off the train, the sick etc, with most moving on in the same train mainly to Lublin first then to Auschwitz. Two sisters went to 7-8 other camps respectively. All of the reports they give are retrospective with hindsight bias, of inferred murders.
As the camp guards were mainly Ukrainians who were under poor supervision, impoverished and also previous prisoners themselves with little vetting, it is possible some of the sick and elderly were "taken care off" initially until this became a criminal scandal. So to answer your question very quickly, yes they were rogue.
Last edited by VFX on Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:37 am

Denying-History wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:
Denying-History wrote:
VFX wrote:
Denying-History wrote:
Anyway, how goes proving the AR camps were rouge operations?
Keep on the intention of the thread please which is to do with the Mass Grave Surveys. This is not concluded, so no one should be able to jump to the Einsatz camp situation based on this alone. This thread is interesting in itself for its own purposes. Who knows who the victims and the perpetrators were if there were. Is there evidence that these are not just old war graves. The area is closely correlated with eye witness testimony of an alleged atrocity. This is in no way verified at this point.
Let me put this the clearest way possible because Mon was incapable of understanding "such things don't exist here". There is no real structure to this forum with regard to threads. This sub-board has no rules of "keeping on topic" and often can just devolve into discussion of modern politics or old bands. Now I am curious, do you still think the AR camps were rouge operations?
They know that, D-H. And good luck getting the troll(s) answering with anything but stilted garbage, insults and accusations.
Well aware of that.
Good.
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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:39 am

VFX wrote:
Denying-History wrote: Now I am curious, do you still think the AR camps were rouge operations?
As you asked for a personal opinion this is fine, but will change my mind with evidence. It would seem that all of the evidence from the Dutch Jews who passed through say Sobibor, it would seem that a few got off the train, the sick etc, with most moving on in the same train mainly to Lublin first then to Auschwitz. Two sisters went to 7-8 other camps respectively. All of the reports they give are retrospective with hindsight bias, of inferred murders.
As the camp guards were mainly Ukrainians who were under poor supervision, impoverished and also previous prisoners themselves with little vetting, it is possible some of the sick and elderly were "taken care off" initially until this became a criminal scandal. So to answer your question very quickly, yes they were rogue.
:rotfl:
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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:54 am

Denying-History wrote:
VFX wrote:
Denying-History wrote:
Anyway, how goes proving the AR camps were rouge operations?
Keep on the intention of the thread please which is to do with the Mass Grave Surveys. This is not concluded, so no one should be able to jump to the Einsatz camp situation based on this alone. This thread is interesting in itself for its own purposes. Who knows who the victims and the perpetrators were if there were. Is there evidence that these are not just old war graves. The area is closely correlated with eye witness testimony of an alleged atrocity. This is in no way verified at this point.
Let me put this the clearest way possible because Mon was incapable of understanding "such things don't exist here". There is no real structure to this forum with regard to threads. This sub-board has no rules of "keeping on topic" and often can just devolve into discussion of modern politics or old bands. Now I am curious, do you still think the AR camps were rouge operations?
There is a thread on that:
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... ilit=Rogue
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by VFX » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:56 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
There is a thread on that:
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... ilit=Rogue
Thank you Jeff, Ill read it soon.
K yes Mr Irving did mention that and his works were quoted. However, that was months ago and much research has shown this to be the likely scenario. The SS Judge Konrad Morgan did not investigate as the camps were closed before he got to them. If you are interested in this particular topic it can be discussed. No issue.
There is an initial suspicion that many of those corrupt Ukrainian guards got their dues at the alleged Aktion Erntefest near Lublin which is 40 km from Sobibor. Still work in progress here.

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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:05 am

VFX wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
There is a thread on that:
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... ilit=Rogue
Thank you Jeff, Ill read it soon.
K yes Mr Irving did mention that and his works were quoted. However, that was months ago and much research has shown this to be the likely scenario. The SS Judge Konrad Morgan did not investigate as the camps were closed before he got to them. If you are interested in this particular topic it can be discussed. No issue.
There is an initial suspicion that many of those corrupt Ukrainian guards got their dues at the alleged Aktion Erntefest near Lublin which is 40 km from Sobibor. Still work in progress here.
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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:17 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:There is a thread on that:
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... ilit=Rogue
some other pertinent links, many of them left unanswered by VFX in January:

http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 81#p516181
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 80#p624139
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 80#p624195
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 80#p624144
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/05-07-46.asp

The Nazis apparently, according to denier logic, basically just let {!#%@} happen. Mary Q Contrary, as Dogzilla, over at JREF used to argue that the whole mass shooting operation in the East was also a "rogue" operation, likening the commanders to Lynddie England and Charles Graner.

In the same vein, this was where VFX tried separating out the Führer from the Führer's work: http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 40#p626806

The {!#%@} passive voice . . . what weaseling.
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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by VFX » Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:20 am

In War time people who are armed combatants behind the front are Partisans. They were executed: that is military law in all countries.

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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:22 am

:senile:
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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:23 am

VFX wrote:In War time people who are armed combatants behind the front are Partisans. They were executed: that is military law in all countries.
Really? This included unarmed men, women and children.
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by VFX » Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:26 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
VFX wrote:In War time people who are armed combatants behind the front are Partisans. They were executed: that is military law in all countries.
Really? This included unarmed men, women and children.
Sad but true, but like with ISIS now women, children and old men can carry arms, grenades. I am not saying I agree but was the fearful mindset of the day: you kill them or they kill us. They considered them extremely dangerous terrorists.

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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:32 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
VFX wrote:In War time people who are armed combatants behind the front are Partisans. They were executed: that is military law in all countries.
Really? This included unarmed men, women and children.
Of course. The Jews were perceived to be Germany's enemies, you know, and, well, Germans basically had been given the order to liquidate that which sought Germany's annihilation and this meant also to kill the wives and children of these partisans, and commissars - perceived to be in armed struggle against the Reich or perhaps in the future to take up arms. Destroying Germany with their anti-human spirit. The Nazis would have been weaklings and criminals to their descendants if the hate-filled sons of the sub-humans liquidated in this struggle of humanity against subhumanity had been allowed to grow up. This explains the death %'s - close to 90% of those removed by the squads were necessarily Jewish subhumans including women and children, avengers of the future.
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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by VFX » Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:40 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote: Of course. The Jews were perceived to be Germany's enemies, you know, and, well, Germans basically had been given the order to liquidate that which sought Germany's annihilation and this meant also to kill the wives and children of these partisans, and commissars - perceived to be in armed struggle against the Reich or perhaps in the future to take up arms. Destroying Germany with their anti-human spirit. The Nazis would have been weaklings and criminals to their descendants if the hate-filled sons of the sub-humans liquidated in this struggle of humanity against subhumanity had been allowed to grow up. This explains the death %'s - close to 90% of those removed by the squads were necessarily Jewish subhumans including women and children, avengers of the future.
The Jews declared themselves 5th columnists and the war resulted in them being interned. The Reich did not think of Jews as subhumans at all, despite the Minister of Propaganda Josef Goebbels rhetoric. Some Germans believed it but most didn't. The reality was is that the Police Special Action groups were dealing with real terrorists equal if not worse than al Queda or ISIS. If these people were not dealt with they would have been a real physical threat to the advancing armies and retreating soldiers including the necessary supply lines. Everything you say SM is sheer crap.

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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:41 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
VFX wrote:In War time people who are armed combatants behind the front are Partisans. They were executed: that is military law in all countries.
Really? This included unarmed men, women and children.
but I am now confused: the self-important moron seems now to be stipulating that of course there were mass graves throughout the east, because of the necessary liquidation of "Partisans"? It's another case of denier logic: it happened and it didn't happen, depending on what stupid thought has popped into the denier's tiny brain at the moment of ... posting!

(The "they were partisans" crapola is dealt with at length in the Einsatzgruppen thread in which these guys have gotten themselves so confused.)
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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by VFX » Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:45 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote: but I am now confused: the self-important moron seems now to be stipulating that of course there were mass graves throughout the east, because of the necessary liquidation of "Partisans"? It's another case of denier logic: it happened and it didn't happen, depending on what stupid thought has popped into the denier's tiny brain at the moment of ... posting!
Be confused, it is a normal state for you apparently. There were mass killings of Partisans on the Eastern Front, no one has ever denied that: this was the result of the Special Police Action Squads protecting army. What is being denied is the mass graves due to mass extermination of Jude who were not Partisans but who were transported.

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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:46 am

VFX wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote: Of course. The Jews were perceived to be Germany's enemies, you know, and, well, Germans basically had been given the order to liquidate that which sought Germany's annihilation and this meant also to kill the wives and children of these partisans, and commissars - perceived to be in armed struggle against the Reich or perhaps in the future to take up arms. Destroying Germany with their anti-human spirit. The Nazis would have been weaklings and criminals to their descendants if the hate-filled sons of the sub-humans liquidated in this struggle of humanity against subhumanity had been allowed to grow up. This explains the death %'s - close to 90% of those removed by the squads were necessarily Jewish subhumans including women and children, avengers of the future.
The Jews declared themselves 5th columnists and the war resulted in them being interned. The Reich did not think of Jews as subhumans at all, despite the Minister of Propaganda Josef Goebbels rhetoric. Some Germans believed it but most didn't. The reality was is that the Police Special Action groups were dealing with real terrorists equal if not worse than al Queda or ISIS. If these people were not dealt with they would have been a real physical threat to the advancing armies and retreating soldiers including the necessary supply lines. Everything you say SM is sheer crap.
Wow, that sounds very dangerous and frightening. I bet their favorite weapon was the turnip launcher.
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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by VFX » Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:48 am

Please stay on topic and talk about the mass grave surveys.

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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:50 am

Image
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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:50 am

>> Everything you say SM is sheer crap.

Says the nitwit, in his frustration at being unable to address, let alone, refute what's been posted. (The nitwit may be unaware that the parody of Nazi language I posted was taken from Himmler, who said on 16 December 1943, "Thus I have basically given the order to also kill the wives and children of these partisans, and commissars. I would be a weakling and a criminal to our descendants if I allowed the hate-filled sons of the sub-humans we have liquidated in this struggle of humanity against subhumanity to grow up." http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... -nazi.html)
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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:52 am

VFX wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote: but I am now confused: the self-important moron seems now to be stipulating that of course there were mass graves throughout the east, because of the necessary liquidation of "Partisans"? It's another case of denier logic: it happened and it didn't happen, depending on what stupid thought has popped into the denier's tiny brain at the moment of ... posting!
Be confused, it is a normal state for you apparently. There were mass killings of Partisans on the Eastern Front, no one has ever denied that: this was the result of the Special Police Action Squads protecting army. What is being denied is the mass graves due to mass extermination of Jude who were not Partisans but who were transported.
Transported where?
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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:53 am

scrmbldggs wrote:
VFX wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote: Of course. The Jews were perceived to be Germany's enemies, you know, and, well, Germans basically had been given the order to liquidate that which sought Germany's annihilation and this meant also to kill the wives and children of these partisans, and commissars - perceived to be in armed struggle against the Reich or perhaps in the future to take up arms. Destroying Germany with their anti-human spirit. The Nazis would have been weaklings and criminals to their descendants if the hate-filled sons of the sub-humans liquidated in this struggle of humanity against subhumanity had been allowed to grow up. This explains the death %'s - close to 90% of those removed by the squads were necessarily Jewish subhumans including women and children, avengers of the future.
The Jews declared themselves 5th columnists and the war resulted in them being interned. The Reich did not think of Jews as subhumans at all, despite the Minister of Propaganda Josef Goebbels rhetoric. Some Germans believed it but most didn't. The reality was is that the Police Special Action groups were dealing with real terrorists equal if not worse than al Queda or ISIS. If these people were not dealt with they would have been a real physical threat to the advancing armies and retreating soldiers including the necessary supply lines. Everything you say SM is sheer crap.
Wow, that sounds very dangerous and frightening. I bet their favorite weapon was the turnip launcher.
You should also be aware that "The Jews declared themselves 5th columnists" through their World Conspiracy; there was a Juden-vote in the global Juden-Parliament where the Jews declared, "We are 5th columnists!" Why they were persecuted before this Juden-legislation is another story.
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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:54 am

scrmbldggs wrote:
VFX wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote: but I am now confused: the self-important moron seems now to be stipulating that of course there were mass graves throughout the east, because of the necessary liquidation of "Partisans"? It's another case of denier logic: it happened and it didn't happen, depending on what stupid thought has popped into the denier's tiny brain at the moment of ... posting!
Be confused, it is a normal state for you apparently. There were mass killings of Partisans on the Eastern Front, no one has ever denied that: this was the result of the Special Police Action Squads protecting army. What is being denied is the mass graves due to mass extermination of Jude who were not Partisans but who were transported.
Transported where?
But I was talking about mass killings of Jews, so it is VFX who remains confusing.

The German war crimes committed in anti-partisan actions warrant a thread of their own - but it is a separate topic to the making of occupied territory Judenrein.
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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:55 am

quotation function, please!
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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by VFX » Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:55 am

scrmbldggs wrote: Wow, that sounds very dangerous and frightening. I bet their favorite weapon was the turnip launcher.
Maybe, provide the evidence if it was.
While the war was raging along a massive front from Leningrad in the north to the Caucasus in the south, another war of a very different nature was being fought behind the Germans lines. In many ways it was a somewhat more brutal and savage war.

A battle was being fought for control of vast German occupied countryside between various groups of Soviet and Nationalist Partisans and German security and various national auxiliary troops.

It was in this atmosphere that many of the horrors of the Second World War were perpetrated by German auxiliary troops, but at the same time Partisans carried out many brave actions against Axis targets, always with the aim of helping their comrades’ efforts in the frontlines and freeing their homeland from the invaders.

The NKVD did organise a number of Destruction Battalions with the aim of infiltrating behind enemy lines during an invasion and causing havoc to the enemy’s communication and supply lines. On July 3, 1941, eleven days after the German invasion Comrade Stalin finally conceded some form of organised resistance was needed for the German occupied areas. In a radio broadcast he called for national resistance and ordered the organisation of Partisan units.
These groups were called Otryadi and could number between 200 and 1000 fighters. These first new Otryadi consisted of Army stragglers, escaped POWs, NKVD troops, Communist activists and officials and State Youth Organisation (Komsomol) members. Very few of these early Partisans were actually workers or peasants.

Despite the large number of NKVD and Communist Party members the overall control of the Partisans was taken over by the Red Army.

The main goal of the Soviet Partisans was not to defeat the Germans security forces in detail, but to simply interrupt supply and communication, disrupt troop movements and generally force the Germans to commit more forces to controlling them, and hence taking troops and resources away from the frontline.

They were also used to gather intelligence on Axis troop movements and concentrations to aid Soviet planning at the frontline. They also impacted on the morale of the German troops whose thoughts of safety behind the lines were soon abolished by the activities of the Partisans.

Most security troops combat against the Partisans was reactionary, defending targets of Partisan attacks, as victims of ambushes or arriving after the event to pursue and track the escaping raiders.
Regular patrolling was also used to locate Partisan groups, trying to catch them on the move and preventing from carrying out their particular mission. In most cases lethal force was used by all sides.
Last edited by VFX on Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:56 am

VFX wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote: Wow, that sounds very dangerous and frightening. I bet their favorite weapon was the turnip launcher.
Maybe, provide the evidence if it was.
While the war was raging along a massive front from Leningrad in the north to the Caucasus in the south, another war of a very different nature was being fought behind the Germans lines. In many ways it was a somewhat more brutal and savage war.

A battle was being fought for control of vast German occupied countryside between various groups of Soviet and Nationalist Partisans and German security and various national auxiliary troops.

It was in this atmosphere that many of the horrors of the Second World War were perpetrated by German auxiliary troops, but at the same time Partisans carried out many brave actions against Axis targets, always with the aim of helping their comrades’ efforts in the frontlines and freeing their homeland from the invaders.

The NKVD did organise a number of Destruction Battalions with the aim of infiltrating behind enemy lines during an invasion and causing havoc to the enemy’s communication and supply lines. On July 3, 1941, eleven days after the German invasion Comrade Stalin finally conceded some form of organised resistance was needed for the German occupied areas. In a radio broadcast he called for national resistance and ordered the organisation of Partisan units.
These groups were called Otryadi and could number between 200 and 1000 fighters. These first new Otryadi consisted of Army stragglers, escaped POWs, NKVD troops, Communist activists and officials and State Youth Organisation (Komsomol) members. Very few of these early Partisans were actually workers or peasants.

Despite the large number of NKVD and Communist Party members the overall control of the Partisans was taken over by the Red Army.

The main goal of the Soviet Partisans was not to defeat the Germans security forces in detail, but to simply interrupt supply and communication, disrupt troop movements and generally force the Germans to commit more forces to controlling them, and hence taking troops and resources away from the frontline.

They were also used to gather intelligence on Axis troop movements and concentrations to aid Soviet planning at the frontline. They also impacted on the morale of the German troops whose thoughts of safety behind the lines were soon abolished by the activities of the Partisans.

Most security troops combat against the Partisans was reactionary, defending targets of Partisan attacks, as victims of ambushes or arriving after the event to pursue and track the escaping raiders.
Regular patrolling was also used to locate Partisan groups, trying to catch them on the move and preventing from carrying out their particular mission. In most cases lethal force was used by all side.
:yawn:
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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by VFX » Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:58 am

I really suggest you people learn some history.

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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:59 am

Tsk tsk tsk, I really suggest you shouldn't forget to cite your sources, little one.
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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by VFX » Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:12 am

scrmbldggs wrote:Tsk tsk tsk, I really suggest you shouldn't forget to cite your sources, little one.
Nope, this is not a formal propositions forum, there seems to be no rules, so nah... but hey thank you for your insincere concern. Its there, read it big boy you might actually put two and two together and still not get one.

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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:15 am

scrmbldggs wrote:Tsk tsk tsk, I really suggest you shouldn't forget to cite your sources, little one.
We also seem to be wandering from the extermination of the Jews . . . or attempting to confuse issues. A recitation of items regarding the Soviet partisan warfare effort is beside the point when it comes to the Jewish massacres, many occurring before any significant or effective organization of the Soviet partisans.
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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:19 am

VFX wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:Tsk tsk tsk, I really suggest you shouldn't forget to cite your sources, little one.
Nope, this is not a formal propositions forum, there seems to be no rules, so nah... but hey thank you for your insincere concern. Its there, read it big boy you might actually put two and two together and still not get one.
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Last edited by scrmbldggs on Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by VFX » Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:20 am

Cool you guys said there were no sticking to threads so make up your minds. Follow your own advice.

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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:23 am

You're joking. This guy really wrote that nonsense. Empty suit. Too arrogant and lazy to acquaint himself with even the basics. He seems to think that copyright law is a unique forum thing . . . LOL
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:24 am

VFX wrote:Cool you guys said there were no sticking to threads so make up your minds. Follow your own advice.
Typical fruitcake... speaks apples and oranges.
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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:25 am

scrmbldggs wrote:
VFX wrote:Cool you guys said there were no sticking to threads so make up your minds. Follow your own advice.
Typical fruitcake... speaks apples and oranges.
Derailing and passing off another's work as his own are . . . to each other as a fish is to a bicycle. Speaking of fish, you've hooked a dumb one.
"It was still at the stage of clubs and fists, hurrah, tala"