Mass Grave Surveys

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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by Nessie » Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:52 pm

VFX wrote:
Nessie wrote:
It is an aerial photo of TII and I can see rectangular outlines in the ground and large areas of disturbed ground. I have produced photos of human bones on the ground. I have quoted from the 1945 Polish survey of the camp which reports human bones and cremated remains over a large area of the camp site.
I agree it is an aerial photo but no evidence it is TII, it has the same credibility as my Noahs arc photo.
I linked to the source for the photo. You are the first person to had even denied that is TII. I suspect you do not know what the camp looks like. More photos here;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16657363

The BBC, Staffs Uni and other deniers are able to recognise the camp. You should be able to as well.
Disturbed ground could mean anything duh.
I have shown you evidence of bones and cremated remains in the disturbed ground, duh!
6 skeletons do not make a genocide Nessie.
That is only one small part fo the evidence.
1945 Polish were under USSR control... NKVD...the mounting evidence is the shoah myth came out of the USSR, producing Russian evidence doesn't count for much. You cannot tell from a photo of cremains... This is a total flight of delusional fantasy.
Staffs Uni went back a few years ago, did a non-invasive survey, found large areas of disturbed ground and cremated remains on the surface. You now have an aerial photo and ground photos, a Polish report from 1945 and a UK university survey from 2012. All show large areas of disturbed ground and human remains.
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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by VFX » Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:03 pm

It is alleged in orthodox historiography that; during WW II - hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of corpses were buried in numerous “huge mass graves” at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II. However, despite all the deceptive allegations to the contrary, the truth is; the largest (in terms of quantity of remains) of the - one hundred - graves / cremation pits that are alleged to have been scientifically proven to currently exist at these sites, in which verified human remains have been tangibly located via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented archaeology; contained the remains of - ONLY SIX PEOPLE.

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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by Nessie » Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:25 pm

VFX wrote:It is alleged in orthodox historiography that; during WW II - hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of corpses were buried in numerous “huge mass graves” at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II. However, despite all the deceptive allegations to the contrary, the truth is; the largest (in terms of quantity of remains) of the - one hundred - graves / cremation pits that are alleged to have been scientifically proven to currently exist at these sites, in which verified human remains have been tangibly located via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented archaeology; contained the remains of - ONLY SIX PEOPLE.
You have plagiarised that off the NAFH site. There is no such organisation, except in the imagination of the person who runs the site. He has no forensic, archaeological nor historical qualifications that he is prepared to admit to. He just plagiarises and cherry picks from genuine archaeological work done the AR camps and he is concentrating only on whole skeletons.

What about all the cremated remains? The "orthodox historiography that; during WW II - hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of corpses were buried in numerous “huge mass graves” at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II" and when it was clear that the Nazis would lose to the Soviets, they dug up the bodies, as much as they could, cremated them, then reburying the ash mixed back into the ground. You have dishonestly missed out part of the "orthodox historiography". That part that explains why so few skeletons have been found.

Why did you miss out part of the evidence? You cannot mislead the posters here. I am probably one of the least knowledgeable here about the history of the AR camps. But I still know bodies were exhumed and cremated. Who are you trying to mislead? The only one you are misleading is yourself. Why do you do that?
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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by montgomery » Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:53 pm

Nessie wrote:

........hundreds of thousands of corpses were buried in numerous “huge mass graves” at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II" and when it was clear that the Nazis would lose to the Soviets, they dug up the bodies,

.........',they dug up the bodies, as much as they could, cremated them, then reburying the ash mixed back into the ground.
Really?

I'm going to remain a skeptic on that because it's contradictory evidence.

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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by scrmbldggs » Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:24 pm

Nessie wrote:...The "orthodox historiography that; during WW II - hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of corpses were buried in numerous “huge mass graves” at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II" and when it was clear that the Nazis would lose to the Soviets, they dug up the bodies, as much as they could, cremated them, then reburying the ash mixed back into the ground...
AFAIK, Treblinka's incineration efforts started early after Stangl took over the camp. And not only because its rotting piles stunk up the countryside for miles.


(VFX/monty would probably claim that stench was from the gangrene from those thousands and thousands of patients at the Lazarett. They would almost be correct.)
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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by Nessie » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:58 pm

montgomery wrote:Nessie wrote:

........hundreds of thousands of corpses were buried in numerous “huge mass graves” at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II" and when it was clear that the Nazis would lose to the Soviets, they dug up the bodies,

.........',they dug up the bodies, as much as they could, cremated them, then reburying the ash mixed back into the ground.
Really?

I'm going to remain a skeptic on that because it's contradictory evidence.
Hardly contradictory, maybe worthy of clarification. I just went into a little bit more detail the second time. I can go into some more detail again. At Belzec the Nazis dug up the corpses as much as they could, cremated and reburied the remains, such that in the 1990s where bore hole samples were taken, at the bottom a waxy fat transformation was found of decomposed remains.
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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by montgomery » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:06 pm

Nessie wrote:
montgomery wrote:Nessie wrote:

........hundreds of thousands of corpses were buried in numerous “huge mass graves” at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II" and when it was clear that the Nazis would lose to the Soviets, they dug up the bodies,

.........',they dug up the bodies, as much as they could, cremated them, then reburying the ash mixed back into the ground.
Really?

I'm going to remain a skeptic on that because it's contradictory evidence.
Hardly contradictory, maybe worthy of clarification. I just went into a little bit more detail the second time. I can go into some more detail again. At Belzec the Nazis dug up the corpses as much as they could, cremated and reburied the remains, such that in the 1990s where bore hole samples were taken, at the bottom a waxy fat transformation was found of decomposed remains.
Try to think of your evidence from the POV of a skeptic. I'll string the two quotes together for you.


....hundreds of thousands of corpses and ] they dug up the bodies,

This skeptic thinks, they may have had time to dig up a hundred of so corpses after knowing they were facing imminent defeat, but why bother when they are leaving hundreds of thousands in the ground??

Convince me in a polite and civil way that I should think differently on these assertions. You may even want to ask your fellow holocaust promoters to chime in and attempt to do the same.

Sadly Nessie, they're not capalbe of the sort of behavior it takes to do that. But I'll never tire of challenging them.

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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by scrmbldggs » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:10 pm

montgomery wrote:...why bother when they are leaving hundreds of thousands in the ground??...
Who here besides you claimed that? It's your diminished* reading comprehension again, innit.



* The longer they're at it, the worse it gets...
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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by Nessie » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:25 pm

I have made an error. I thought the Sonderaktion 1005 to exhume and cremate to hide the numbers of corpses was a fear of discovery due to being defeated. But it started earlier than I thought, in March 1942, so I looked to see why. This may still not be correct, but a timeline (from the various Wiki entries on T4, Sonderaktion 1005 and Katyn);

Action T4, euthanasia programme starts 1939. Protests against the action result in the RC Church condemning the Nazis and protests in 1941. August 1941 the action is ended, though some euthanasia does continue.

Sonderaktion 1005 starts around March 1942 and it is the exhumation and cremation of remains to prevent discovery. I presume the bad publicity over Action T4 has made the Nazis realise they need to ensure the numbers dead is kept secret.

Discovery of Katyn early 1943 and publishing the findings in April 1943. Now the Nazis have exposed a Soviet mass grave. But knowing there are many more Nazi mass graves, the order goes out that the AR camps have to exhume bodies and cremate them.

The Nazis had reason to start cremations long before I thought and it was not due to fear of Soviet discovery.
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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by montgomery » Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:31 am

Nessie wrote:I have made an error. I thought the Sonderaktion 1005 to exhume and cremate to hide the numbers of corpses was a fear of discovery due to being defeated. But it started earlier than I thought, in March 1942, so I looked to see why. This may still not be correct, but a timeline (from the various Wiki entries on T4, Sonderaktion 1005 and Katyn);

Action T4, euthanasia programme starts 1939. Protests against the action result in the RC Church condemning the Nazis and protests in 1941. August 1941 the action is ended, though some euthanasia does continue.

Sonderaktion 1005 starts around March 1942 and it is the exhumation and cremation of remains to prevent discovery. I presume the bad publicity over Action T4 has made the Nazis realise they need to ensure the numbers dead is kept secret.

Discovery of Katyn early 1943 and publishing the findings in April 1943. Now the Nazis have exposed a Soviet mass grave. But knowing there are many more Nazi mass graves, the order goes out that the AR camps have to exhume bodies and cremate them.

The Nazis had reason to start cremations long before I thought and it was not due to fear of Soviet discovery.
You're to be commended for your honesty. But I don't think it does anything to diminish the nonsense of the claim. It's just not believable that they would try to do that when they had to know they would be doomed to failure. Hundreds of thousands of bodies left in the ground?? NO! There's no way they could have destroyed that sort of evidence and so I will maintain that they didn't even try.

That does leave us with the claim that there are hundreds of thousands of bodies in the ground. But I think I'm satisfied that the claim of the Nazis trying to dig them up is bogus. By all means pursue that claim again with your revised edition if you think it's worth it?

The more important issue out of all this is that it gave eggs another opportunity to make an ass of himself with his spam!

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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by VFX » Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:39 am

montgomery wrote: The more important issue out of all this is that it gave eggs another opportunity to make an ass of himself with his spam!
He does try for a while but resorts back to his old ways. However, we have to keep trying. As the Admin requested.
Pyrrho wrote: If you could also cut down on the personal attacks, I am sure you guys will return this subforum to its usual standard of excellence in rational discourse.
I hope that people follow this advice. :D :)

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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by montgomery » Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:27 am

VFX wrote:
montgomery wrote: The more important issue out of all this is that it gave eggs another opportunity to make an ass of himself with his spam!
He does try for a while but resorts back to his old ways. However, we have to keep trying. As the Admin requested.
Pyrrho wrote: If you could also cut down on the personal attacks, I am sure you guys will return this subforum to its usual standard of excellence in rational discourse.
I hope that people follow this advice. :D :)
Me too, but 'return' is the operative word there. I'm new here but was this forum ever demonstrating 'excellence in rational discourse'? The best I've ever seen, and it's not yet reformed, is since we started to clean house a little. Some of the spammers have given up and a few of them are down to emitting one word porcine like grunts.

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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by VFX » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:35 am

montgomery wrote: Since we started to clean house a little. Some of the spammers have given up and a few of them are down to emitting one word porcine like grunts.
.
They have given up. A few grunts and wheezes but that's about it; it is clear the administrator Phyrro wants this forum to be a place of true discussion and not the hogwash it once was. The arrogant one is still trying but his grasp on the bricks is now clinging to hubris and algae. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Rome was not built in a day, it took three. LOL

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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:47 am

Time was, a couple weeks ago, the forum wasn't that active, people posted mainly when they came across something new or interesting. But now we deal with diversions and trolling, which have interrupted the usual flow. OTOH, with Upton posting here again, and Nessie having returned, the number of people posting here is greater than it was. But do carry on with your delusion.
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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by VFX » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:51 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Actually, with Upton posting here again, and Nessie having returned, the number of people posting here is greater than it was. But do carry on.
That is good: you wanna try to modify your behaviour a little? Attack the argument not the posters please. If you can do that I will support your efforts. You decide. :D From our point point of view you are the troll.
Last edited by VFX on Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:52 am

Make an argument for someone to attack.

Again, please don't imagine that I give a rat's ass what you support or think.
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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by VFX » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:54 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Make an argument for someone to attack.

Again, please don't imagine that I give a rat's ass what you support or think.
Do you think I care what you think, that should be obvious now. Just stick to logic OK..and be polite. :D :D

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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by Nessie » Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:49 am

montgomery wrote:
Nessie wrote:I have made an error. I thought the Sonderaktion 1005 to exhume and cremate to hide the numbers of corpses was a fear of discovery due to being defeated. But it started earlier than I thought, in March 1942, so I looked to see why. This may still not be correct, but a timeline (from the various Wiki entries on T4, Sonderaktion 1005 and Katyn);

Action T4, euthanasia programme starts 1939. Protests against the action result in the RC Church condemning the Nazis and protests in 1941. August 1941 the action is ended, though some euthanasia does continue.

Sonderaktion 1005 starts around March 1942 and it is the exhumation and cremation of remains to prevent discovery. I presume the bad publicity over Action T4 has made the Nazis realise they need to ensure the numbers dead is kept secret.

Discovery of Katyn early 1943 and publishing the findings in April 1943. Now the Nazis have exposed a Soviet mass grave. But knowing there are many more Nazi mass graves, the order goes out that the AR camps have to exhume bodies and cremate them.

The Nazis had reason to start cremations long before I thought and it was not due to fear of Soviet discovery.
You're to be commended for your honesty. But I don't think it does anything to diminish the nonsense of the claim. It's just not believable that they would try to do that when they had to know they would be doomed to failure. Hundreds of thousands of bodies left in the ground?? NO! There's no way they could have destroyed that sort of evidence and so I will maintain that they didn't even try.
That is the fallacious argument from incredulity. Such a claim does not wash and I am amazed you are making it, considering the very high standard of scepticism you have set for yourself so far.
That does leave us with the claim that there are hundreds of thousands of bodies in the ground. But I think I'm satisfied that the claim of the Nazis trying to dig them up is bogus. By all means pursue that claim again with your revised edition if you think it's worth it?

The more important issue out of all this is that it gave eggs another opportunity to make an ass of himself with his spam!
The answer is in the ground. Which archaeological studies have you read? Let me know and we can discuss them.
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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by VFX » Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:54 am

Nessie wrote:
The answer is in the ground. Which archaeological studies have you read? Let me know and we can discuss them.
Study the one which is the topic of this forum. Listening to you waffle on is like asking you to examine a portion of the coastline for a few mussels and then you want to examine the whole Pacific Ocean: stay on track.

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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by Nessie » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:40 am

The topic has expanded to mass grave surveys in general. The Rohatyn mass grave has been investigated by Staffs Uni using the same methods they used at TII.

Interestingly, the simplest survey of all, the walk over survey, produced important results at both camps as they showed what was buried below. At TII they found cremains. At Rohatyn;

"However, during their walkover survey in May 2017, the archaeologists found the site had been disturbed again: loose soil and human remains (bones) plus clothing fragments and a bullet casing were strewn on the ground surface on and around the same hole, which had been lightly covered by thin material (cardboard or similar) and earth. In all, nearly one hundred bones or fragments were recovered from the ground surface, documented, and re-interred by the archaeology team and RJH, under the guidance of Rabbi Kolesnyk of Ivano-Frankivsk; bones which were partially embedded in the soil were left untouched and covered with fresh soil."

So sad these sites are still being desecrated.
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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by VFX » Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:57 am

Leaving them there just adds to the speculation. another whodunnit.

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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by Nessie » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:43 am

VFX wrote:Leaving them there just adds to the speculation. another whodunnit.
How would exhuming them tell us who did it?
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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by VFX » Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:15 pm

Hopefully traces of DNA, you can get that from artifacts as well as to who the real victims were. As to who dunnit...I know who is to blame but I suspect the Russians. When you come across mass murder like this, think two thoughts: Nazis or Soviets. Some of them no doubt were pricks in the SS or whatever, but most likely the Soviet reprisals against their own people.

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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by Nessie » Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:45 pm

VFX wrote:Hopefully traces of DNA, you can get that from artifacts as well as to who the real victims were. As to who dunnit...I know who is to blame but I suspect the Russians. When you come across mass murder like this, think two thoughts: Nazis or Soviets. Some of them no doubt were pricks in the SS or whatever, but most likely the Soviet reprisals against their own people.
A DNA sample only helps with identification if you have a sample from something that person is known to have used, like a toothbrush or a known living relative who has also provided a sample.

So, there is nothing to be gained from exhumation. A non-intrusive survey tells us the size of the grave and that will let us know roughly how many are buried there. The walk over survey and graverobbing show those people were shot.

The evidence it was the Nazis was from interviews with surviving locals and contemporary documentation.
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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by VFX » Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:04 pm

Your knowledge is somewhat limited. Criminals in cold case investigations are recently caught due to DNA analysis. Roughly how many buried. Well one would expect like over half a million bodies not 5 or 6. Get real.. as said find the other million corpses otherwise shut up. 6 graves is not a Holocaust Nessie.

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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by Nessie » Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:58 pm

VFX wrote:Your knowledge is somewhat limited. Criminals in cold case investigations are recently caught due to DNA analysis.
Only if their DNA is already in the system when the sample is compared, or after the sample is entered onto the system, the criminals DNA is entered. The limited knowledge is yours.
Roughly how many buried. Well one would expect like over half a million bodies not 5 or 6. Get real.. as said find the other million corpses otherwise shut up. 6 graves is not a Holocaust Nessie.
This one small site in one small town. Repeat that all over eastern Europe and there is a Holocaust by bullets.
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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by VFX » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:08 pm

No, there is mitochondrial DNA to know the potential back ground of the victim. No doubt your DNA would indicate your roots back to Africa. The shoah was not by bullets as you so strongly constantly asset: it was by gassing. Are you now changing your mind on this?

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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by scrmbldggs » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:18 pm

VFX wrote:No, there is mitochondrial DNA to know the potential back ground of the victim. No doubt your DNA would indicate your roots back to Africa. The shoah was not by bullets as you so strongly constantly asset: it was by gassing. Are you now changing your mind on this?
Seems you don't know all that much, including about the Shoah


The Holocaust, as presented in this resource center, is defined as the sum total of all anti-Jewish actions carried out by the Nazi regime between 1933 and 1945...


The biblical word Shoah (which has been used to mean “destruction” since the Middle Ages) became the standard Hebrew term for the murder of European Jewry as early as the early 1940s. The word Holocaust, which came into use in the 1950s as the corresponding term, originally meant a sacrifice burnt entirely on the altar...

...we consider it important to use the Hebrew word Shoah with regard to the murder of and persecution of European Jewry in other languages as well.
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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by VFX » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:20 pm

In the past Nessie has considered that only gassing counted. Now he is changing his mind. There was no murder of European jewry by the Germans.

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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by montgomery » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:04 pm

VFX wrote:In the past Nessie has considered that only gassing counted. Now he is changing his mind. There was no murder of European jewry by the Germans.
If that is true then Nessie was very ill informed. However, over the years I've paid enough attention to the holocaust legend stories to know that there's been a huge revision of the accepted evidence by the H.P'ers alone. I think that the gas chamber stories are indeed on their last legs. I remain a very strongly skeptical on that.

As an aside and fwiw, i noticed you commented on eggs' demand to be called by his full name, and you suggested that he reciprocate. Also fwiw, I will call him eggs until he improves his bad behavior.

I wonder why he's making a fool of himself by pleading about it. It could be that he's getting ready to cry to the moderator. And so: I will not tolerate any unfair and biased treatment toward me on this forum. If that begins to happen then you may find that I've disappeared all of a sudden. That could be of my own accord or not. I will react very strongly to any unfair treatment. I hope it doesn't happen.

I think you and I have had to put up with far too much already, but I don't think it pays to go whining about it to the mod. I'm sure he's keeping a close eye on this forum in order to make sure nobody steps out of bounds. But I will say that my idea of what is acceptable doesn't seem to be how this forum is moderated.

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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by VFX » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:20 pm

Indeed,though despite the moderators requests, the arrogant one still continues. Nessie and these dudes seem to think this is an iRC chat channel. I love the arrogant ones attitude, who constantly attempts to demean others by showing his perceived air of superiority. LOL, what the person does not realize is that people who really know do not act that way. Anyway I have another forum to post to in the interim. This could be a great forum with considered debate and discussion without a we them attitude: at the moment it is not. I'll keep popping in to check... cheers.

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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by scrmbldggs » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:23 pm

montgomery wrote:
VFX wrote:In the past Nessie has considered that only gassing counted. Now he is changing his mind. There was no murder of European jewry by the Germans.
If that is true then Nessie was very ill informed. However, over the years I've paid enough attention to the holocaust legend stories to know that there's been a huge revision of the accepted evidence by the H.P'ers alone. I think that the gas chamber stories are indeed on their last legs. I remain a very strongly skeptical on that.

As an aside and fwiw, i noticed you commented on eggs' demand to be called by his full name, and you suggested that he reciprocate. Also fwiw, I will call him eggs until he improves his bad behavior.

I wonder why he's making a fool of himself by pleading about it. It could be that he's getting ready to cry to the moderator. And so: I will not tolerate any unfair and biased treatment toward me on this forum. If that begins to happen then you may find that I've disappeared all of a sudden. That could be of my own accord or not. I will react very strongly to any unfair treatment. I hope it doesn't happen.

I think you and I have had to put up with far too much already, but I don't think it pays to go whining about it to the mod. I'm sure he's keeping a close eye on this forum in order to make sure nobody steps out of bounds. But I will say that my idea of what is acceptable doesn't seem to be how this forum is moderated.
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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by Balmoral95 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:48 am

VFX wrote:Indeed,though despite the moderators requests, the arrogant one still continues. Nessie and these dudes seem to think this is an iRC chat channel. I love the arrogant ones attitude, who constantly attempts to demean others by showing his perceived air of superiority. LOL, what the person does not realize is that people who really know do not act that way. Anyway I have another forum to post to in the interim. This could be a great forum with considered debate and discussion without a we them attitude: at the moment it is not. I'll keep popping in to check... cheers.
You misunderstood the moderator request completely.

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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:30 am

VFX wrote:In the past Nessie has considered that only gassing counted.
Link please?
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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:38 am

montgomery wrote:If that is true then Nessie was very ill informed.
Gas chamber obsession is a denier thing. I would like to see proof of VFX's claim.
montgomery wrote:However, over the years I've paid enough attention to the holocaust legend stories to know that there's been a huge revision of the accepted evidence
Details, please. You who would be just now starting to look into the Holocaust.
montgomery wrote:I think that the gas chamber stories are indeed on their last legs. I remain a very strongly skeptical on that.
Your skepticism, as you call it, is not to be confused with the reality of the situation. In addition to David Cole, we have Eric Hunt and BROI running from their former claims as deniers. We have Mark Weber giving up.
montgomery wrote:As an aside and fwiw, i noticed you commented on eggs' demand to be called by his full name, and you suggested that he reciprocate. Also fwiw, I will call him eggs until he improves his bad behavior.
Good for you. You are a model citizen.
montgomery wrote:If that begins to happen then you may find that I've disappeared all of a sudden.
We will try our best to deal with such theatrics.
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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by Balmoral95 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:53 am

Also fwiw, I will call him eggs until he improves his bad behavior.
Fair enough, we'll call you Scarlett O'hara from now on.

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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by Nessie » Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:06 am

VFX wrote:No, there is mitochondrial DNA to know the potential back ground of the victim. No doubt your DNA would indicate your roots back to Africa.
Finding out the ethnic background does not provide evidence as to what happened.
The shoah was not by bullets as you so strongly constantly asset: it was by gassing. Are you now changing your mind on this?
With that, you have just added to your own stupidity.
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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by Nessie » Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:08 am

VFX wrote:In the past Nessie has considered that only gassing counted. Now he is changing his mind. There was no murder of European jewry by the Germans.
Wrong. I have repeatedly referenced the Einsatzgruppen actions in threads on RODOH and am presently in a debate about Babi Yar. That was where the Nazis murdered most of the Jews of Kiev by shooting them.
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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by Nessie » Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:12 am

montgomery wrote:
VFX wrote:In the past Nessie has considered that only gassing counted. Now he is changing his mind. There was no murder of European jewry by the Germans.
If that is true then Nessie was very ill informed.
It is not true. Now, will you criticise VFX for being ill informed?
However, over the years I've paid enough attention to the holocaust legend stories to know that there's been a huge revision of the accepted evidence by the H.P'ers alone. I think that the gas chamber stories are indeed on their last legs. I remain a very strongly skeptical on that.
Which is you admitting to being a denier...
As an aside and fwiw, i noticed you commented on eggs' demand to be called by his full name, and you suggested that he reciprocate. Also fwiw, I will call him eggs until he improves his bad behavior.

I wonder why he's making a fool of himself by pleading about it. It could be that he's getting ready to cry to the moderator. And so: I will not tolerate any unfair and biased treatment toward me on this forum. If that begins to happen then you may find that I've disappeared all of a sudden. That could be of my own accord or not. I will react very strongly to any unfair treatment. I hope it doesn't happen.

I think you and I have had to put up with far too much already, but I don't think it pays to go whining about it to the mod. I'm sure he's keeping a close eye on this forum in order to make sure nobody steps out of bounds. But I will say that my idea of what is acceptable doesn't seem to be how this forum is moderated.
...who is actually here to participate in the abuse and wind others up.
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Re: Mass Grave Surveys

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:51 am

Nessie wrote:
VFX wrote:The shoah was not by bullets as you so strongly constantly asset: it was by gassing. Are you now changing your mind on this?
With that, you have just added to your own stupidity.
Especially since we’ve recently gone over this for montgomery and VFX:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:As an aside ... the gas chambers focus of deniers, and the game they play that non-gas chamber killings are some kind of challenge to some "official story," is a pathetic straw man.

Hilberg had 2,700,000 Jews perishing in German-run camps (six of them death camps), not all by gassing operations; 150,000+ Jews perishing in Romanian and Serbian camps; and 2,200,000+ in open-air shootings and from privation.

A tabulation posted by Nick Terry in this forum in 2016 updates Hilberg as follows: in 8 camps, mostly from gassing operations, slightly fewer than 2,700,000 Jewish deaths; mass shootings maximum 2,000,000; and from privation, death marches, other KLs, labor camps, Romania about 700,000.

So about 50-53% in camps with gassing operations, not all of these victims killed by gassing. Or just more than half the victims in these death camps. And just shy of 50% of the victims perishing by other means, most of them in mass shooting operations carried out by the Germans.

Any honest discussion of "the gas chambers legend" needs to start with numbers something like these. Pretending that scholars or historians - anyone other deniers and the uninformed, actually - reduce the genocide of European Jews to gassing (and a master plan and 6 million) is nothing more than a disingenuous tactic.
Thw amount of repetition and review of basics these two cause is tedious.
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