March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:59 pm

This thread has gotten hilarious. I’d heard that Montgomery was pouting about his recent lumps and had mused about leaving. What a lucky turn for us he is sticking around. And VFX is joining in the hilarity.
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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by scrmbldggs » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:02 pm

Yeah, seems Scarlet didn't dare show up alone - after her dramatic exit. :lol:
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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by montgomery » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:06 pm

Hans wrote:
montgomery wrote:
Hans wrote:
Apparently, you did not bother to read the blog articles on the footage, but since I am a really nice guy I'll give you a quick summary:

1. The footage was found in the apartment of the former Einsatzgruppe B head Arthur Nebe before June 1947. The sound of the engine is not original but was added for the documentary "Nuremberg: Its Lesson for Today" (German Footage of a Homicidal Gassing with Engine Exhaust. Part 1: Provenance).

2. The gassing setup is located at the mental asylum in Mogilev (Part 2: Location).

3. The gassing action was carried out by members of Einsatzkommando 8 of Einsatzgruppe B in Mogilev. The truck, which exhaust is connected to the wall, was assigned to the police unit of Einsatzkommando 8 (Part 3: Responsibility (I)). The Adler car connected to the other exhaust hose introduced into the wall was registered to the German Security Police.

4. The killing of several hundreds of mentally ill people by Einsatzkommando 8/Einsatzgruppe B in Mogilev is reported in contemporary German documents. Homicidal gassings of mentally ill people in Mogilev by Einsatzkommando 8 have been described by numerous witnesses. This specific gassing action shown in the footage was likely carried out in September 1941 (Part 4: Responsibility (II) and Part 5: Responsibility (III)).

The civilians dressed in white are Russian doctors/nurses of the asylum, who unload the victims under supervision of the police/SD men in the background.
No, I didn't read the blog and I'm not going to now. As I said, the shadow of the German soldier on the brick wall was the final straw.
So I get this straight: you don't want to read about the evidence that supports the authenticity of the video footage, but instead you claim it a forgery decisively based on the shadow of a German soldier on the brick wall? (and none of your other remarks did support any forgery allegation either)

Just what happened to your "I would like to hear a decent discussion on this claim of evidence, both pro and con" from that other thread? Now you kill any discussion and deliberately refuse to learn about any "pros". How do these two attitudes fit to one coherently thinking person?

That shadow of the German soldier on the brick wall. Now what is it that makes this little and inconspicuous detail so powerful that it ends any debate whatever they might still come? Do German soldiers do not cast shadows? Does the countour not fit to a German soldier? Does the sun never stands that low in this part of the world to cast such a shadow? Did the Germans did not have flash lights at the time? Would Nazi amateur filmers never take any footage with a German soldier's shadow on the wall?

The fact is that if a Nazi amateur filmer did shoot a homicidal gassing carried out by the Einsatzgruppe B staff, Einsatzkommando 8 and members of the Criminal Technical Institute of the RSHA - as the evidence you do not want to read about suggests -, then there were plenty of German "soldiers" around the place. With a low standing sun or flash light employed it is quite possible that one of those guys of the German paramilitary forces on the site would cast his shadow on the wall on the footage. And if the Nazi amateur filmer was not a perfectionist or did keep outtakes, it is entirely conceivable to end up with footage of a gassing setup with the shadow of a police or SD member taking part in the action.

It's a creepily bad argument and a fallacy that because some movie film makers use shadows as scary elements that therefore any scary situation with a shadow has been so likely staged that one does not need to look at any counter-evidence anymore.
It's not in the least believable.
If it is a matter of belief for you, I'm fine - as long as you don't want to give the impression that you arrived to this by considering historical evidence and logical reasoning.
Hans, regardless of who made the film, you are presenting it as evidence. In my opinion that was a horrible mistake because of the shadow that was cast on the wall. And also for other reasons which I've already mentioned, such as the breaks in the film, the attempt to portray the cart as the same cart from earlier in the film, and other. See my earlier comments. But the shadow projected on the wall clinched it for me. It's bogus. It's B rate hollywood or the German/Zionist version of hollywood.

But that's not the end of the discussin with you as far as I'm concerned. You haven't destroyed your credibility in the same way as the others so you are free to make reference to something else, and I will consider it. However, be forewarned that I hold you responsible for the Mogliev film, and I consider that to be strike one.
Last edited by montgomery on Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by Balmoral95 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:07 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:Yeah, seems Scarlet didn't dare show up alone - after her dramatic exit. :lol:
It said it was leaving in order to "take stock", apparently a process that landed it right back here. :roll:

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by Hans » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:10 pm

VFX wrote:
Hans wrote:
That shadow of the German soldier on the brick wall. Now what is it that makes this little and inconspicuous detail so powerful that it ends any debate whatever they might still come? Do German soldiers do not cast shadows? Does the countour not fit to a German soldier? Does the sun never stands that low in this part of the world to cast such a shadow? Did the Germans did not have flash lights at the time? Would Nazi amateur filmers never take any footage with a German soldier's shadow on the wall?
I think he gave great thought to it. It is just a Hollywood style B grade movie stunt which screams the authenticity of the film, or total lack of it. A person taking genuine movies do not take shadows on the wall: to do so shows that they are proficient to some degree at arousing emotion through fear.
Oh really? How about amateur filmers? How about documentaries? How about footage intended not for the public but for a private circle? Or out-takes for that matter. They would all never show shadows on the wall, why again?
Last edited by Hans on Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by scrmbldggs » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:11 pm

Balmoral95 wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:Yeah, seems Scarlet didn't dare show up alone - after her dramatic exit. :lol:
It said it was leaving in order to "take stock", apparently a process that landed it right back here. :roll:
Probably sent back - who else would put up with it... :hoots:
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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:14 pm

VFX wrote:
That shadow of the German soldier on the brick wall. Now what is it that makes this little and inconspicuous detail so powerful that it ends any debate whatever they might still come? Do German soldiers do not cast shadows? Does the countour not fit to a German soldier? Does the sun never stands that low in this part of the world to cast such a shadow? Did the Germans did not have flash lights at the time? Would Nazi amateur filmers never take any footage with a German soldier's shadow on the wall?


I think he gave great thought to it.
No, he just wanted to find any small detail to continue with his....”skepticism.”
It is just a Hollywood style B grade movie stunt which screams the authenticity of the film, or total lack of it.
This wasn’t shot to be released for imagery or public consumption. It wasn’t filmed by Hollywood.

Frankly this is one of the lamest things I’ve ever seen, this obsession over a shadow.
A person taking genuine movies do not take shadows on the wall: to do so shows that they are proficient to some degree at arousing emotion through fear. To be honest, not even Alfred Hitchcock would be the remotest bit proud of this. It is totally fake.
This isn’t a movie and was shot by amateurs interested only in documenting the event.

Good grief, the lengths you two go to stay buried in denial boggles the mind.
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by VFX » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:20 pm

The fact is it is a B grade attempt at a genuine movie but shown to be totally fake. In the old days people would not really notice but these days with CGI these things are picked up on pretty quick. This is the dumbest genuine movie I have seen. The 6 year olds at the local school could do better than this. I appreciate movies being put on here for thought but not presented as evidence when it is clearly not.
Last edited by VFX on Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by montgomery » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:21 pm

The film failed to convince for several obvious reasons. Can we move on to other evidence of that sort? Or does that piece of buffoonery stand as the only one?

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by VFX » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:22 pm

As mentioned, I appreciated Hans putting on movies or anyone else for consideration. So long as it is not claimed to be evidence. We all stand to be corrected if need be. We are revisionists not deniers.

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:23 pm

>> The fact is it is a B grade attempt

Excellent, so you will be the one to bail Montgomery out and deal with the material in the links Hans posted, go for it ... or will both of you ignore Hans’ documentation in favor of flippant and mindless dismissal?
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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:24 pm

VFX wrote:As mentioned, I appreciated Hans putting on movies or anyone else for consideration. So long as it is not claimed to be evidence. We all stand to be corrected if need be. We are revisionists not deniers.
Then tell us your views of the material he linked to ...
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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by scrmbldggs » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:26 pm

VFX wrote:The fact is it is a B grade attempt at a genuine movie but shown to be totally fake. In the old days people would not really notice but these days with CGI these things are picked up on pretty quick. This is the dumbest genuine movie I have seen. The 6 year olds at the local school could do better than this. I appreciate movies being put on here for thought but not presented as evidence when it is clearly not.
Not sure if you read and answered the post as it stands now, SM, or only the previous one before the edit you quoted.



Edits: Added "only" and "you quoted".
Last edited by scrmbldggs on Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by VFX » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:27 pm

The material is worthy of consideration and reflection in the light of other information.

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by Balsamo » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:28 pm

VFX wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
VFX wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
The thought of someone like you would make Lennon vomit.
I think the thought of Jude making trillions of $ from a hoax at the expense of millions of others would make him gag.
Yes, we can see your frustration grow by the post. Not very interestingly, the anti-Semitic nonsense you post increases at the same time.
Not frustrated at all, can cope easily with a dupe like you. https://www.wrmea.org/008-november/a-co ... llion.html
A Conservative Estimate of Total Direct U.S. Aid to Israel: Almost $114 Billion

http://www.spiegel.de/international/ger ... 02528.html
Germany to Pay 772 Million Euros to Survivors
The German government has committed to pay nearly 800 million euros for the care of elderly Holocaust survivors as a result of negotiations in Israel between Berlin and a fund for Jewish victims of Nazi aggression. Nearly 60,000 people will benefit from the aid money.

We are still quite far from the trillions you were talking about, NSDAP.

Regarding the US support to the State of Israel, you understand that it has nothing to do with the Holocaust, right?
Prior to the unconditional support of Israel by the USA, the USA were supporting "unconditionally" Iran, that is under the so called "Shah", a blunt dictatorship if i may add, until the Regime collapsed in 1979.

Regarding reparation, did you know that the Central and Eastern European countries had to agree to refund all the wealth that had been "stolen" when those countries fell under Soviet occupation in 1945 as a condition to adhere to NATO and the EU. Those former landowners, mostly Aristocrats, got urban palaces back as well as castles, or millions of Euros in cases those castles had been destroyed. A unknown member of the Habsbourg family, living in NY as an architect, became the owner of the famous castle of Dracula in Romania worth tens of millions of dollars. The family of a cousin of mine were given two incredible palaces in the city of Budapest. All the candidates had to agree to pay back, except Poland and the Baltic States.

The only who were not given anything were the German noble families who were spoiled by the defeat.
Those Eastern princes and Dukes received much more than any spoiled Jewish family i know. I had a friend in Brussels from one of those spoiled families who finally was compensated by the Belgian States for some urban buildings that had been stolen to his family...he received a compensation of...350 euros (a bit over 400$)...It was almost hard not to laugh...a shame really.

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by VFX » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:28 pm

scrmbldggs wrote: Not sure if you read and answered the post as it stands now, SM, or only the previous one before the edit.
I do not think SM needs any helping hand from you especially in the light that eggs do not have hands.

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by scrmbldggs » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:32 pm

VFX wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote: Not sure if you read and answered the post as it stands now, SM, or only the previous one before the edit.
I do not think SM needs any helping hand from you especially in the light that eggs do not have hands.
And you need to learn that changing posts and quotes as you have been and are doing adds zilch to your credibility.
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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:34 pm

VFX wrote:The fact is it is a B grade attempt at a genuine movie but shown to be totally fake. In the old days people would not really notice but these days with CGI these things are picked up on pretty quick. This is the dumbest genuine movie I have seen. The 6 year olds at the local school could do better than this. I appreciate movies being put on here for thought but not presented as evidence when it is clearly not.
So, your only evidence is a shadow on the wall.

BTW, didn’t I give you a homework assignment? I’m a patient fellow, do you need more time?

Or do you want to say that you don’t know and can’t tell me? BTW with that comes an agreement from you that any idea of mass transits “to the East” is crap.
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by VFX » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:37 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Or do you want to say that you don’t know and can’t tell me? BTW with that comes an agreement from you that any idea of mass transits “to the East” is crap.
No one claimed mass transit to the East. The East came and engulfed them all like a gigantic red tsunami.

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:43 pm

To recap: Montgomery and VFX do not feel that the Mogilev footage is authentic. Their reason is entirely subjective, having to do with what they feel would be better. In addition, both of them - the learner and SA fanboy - refuse to read Hans’ analysis of why the footage has to be seen as authentic, presumably because they know they would have no answers for the argument and so have chickened out.
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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by Balsamo » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:47 pm

Hans wrote:
VFX wrote:
Hans wrote:
That shadow of the German soldier on the brick wall. Now what is it that makes this little and inconspicuous detail so powerful that it ends any debate whatever they might still come? Do German soldiers do not cast shadows? Does the countour not fit to a German soldier? Does the sun never stands that low in this part of the world to cast such a shadow? Did the Germans did not have flash lights at the time? Would Nazi amateur filmers never take any footage with a German soldier's shadow on the wall?
I think he gave great thought to it. It is just a Hollywood style B grade movie stunt which screams the authenticity of the film, or total lack of it. A person taking genuine movies do not take shadows on the wall: to do so shows that they are proficient to some degree at arousing emotion through fear.
Oh really? How about amateur filmers? How about documentaries? How about footage intended not for the public but for a private circle? Or out-takes for that matter. They would all never show shadows on the wall, why again?

Actually, i really think it is time to stop this circus.
It makes no real sense to discuss such a topic with someone who does not know what EG or EK stand for.

It is actually a good illustration of primitive Denier's behavior. As this one said, he did not bother reading your articles (blog entries) and probably did not even click until the chapters where you mention the possible contradictions. He stuck on this 1 minutes video, declared it was a silly fake, and that's about it.

Now if the Deniers, contrary to others, does not even know what EG means, he probably does not have any clue to what "Ereignismeldungen" refer to, has no idea of the "General Plan Ost" means, etc. So he is not even in a position to apprehend the whole thing even if he was of "good faith".

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by montgomery » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:48 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
VFX wrote:The fact is it is a B grade attempt at a genuine movie but shown to be totally fake. In the old days people would not really notice but these days with CGI these things are picked up on pretty quick. This is the dumbest genuine movie I have seen. The 6 year olds at the local school could do better than this. I appreciate movies being put on here for thought but not presented as evidence when it is clearly not.
So, your only evidence is a shadow on the wall.

BTW, didn’t I give you a homework assignment? I’m a patient fellow, do you need more time?

Or do you want to say that you don’t know and can’t tell me? BTW with that comes an agreement from you that any idea of mass transits “to the East” is crap.
The negative evidence against the Mogliev film is not just the shadow, but i would maintain that the shadow alone destroys it as evidence. A discussion on the rest of the evidence could be productive if you wish to do that?

No two parts of the 4 or 5 part film relate directly to each other as evidence. And in fact, the attempts to falsify evidence are visible. It simply fails to provide any aurhtentic evidence. But I'm always interested in your views and your valid arguments on the issue.

Hoping you won't again tell me that you're too busy and just observing.

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by VFX » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:02 pm

montgomery wrote:
Hoping you won't again tell me that you're too busy and just observing.
He is just observing and a little too busy atm. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by VFX » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:05 pm

Balsamo wrote: So he is not even in a position to apprehend the whole thing even if he was of "good faith".
Lighten up a little Balsa. Not sure if you are in much of a position to apprehend much considering you are a lightweight used for construction of model toy aircraft with some dope.

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by Hans » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:21 pm

montgomery wrote:
Hans wrote:
montgomery wrote:
Hans wrote:
Apparently, you did not bother to read the blog articles on the footage, but since I am a really nice guy I'll give you a quick summary:

1. The footage was found in the apartment of the former Einsatzgruppe B head Arthur Nebe before June 1947. The sound of the engine is not original but was added for the documentary "Nuremberg: Its Lesson for Today" (German Footage of a Homicidal Gassing with Engine Exhaust. Part 1: Provenance).

2. The gassing setup is located at the mental asylum in Mogilev (Part 2: Location).

3. The gassing action was carried out by members of Einsatzkommando 8 of Einsatzgruppe B in Mogilev. The truck, which exhaust is connected to the wall, was assigned to the police unit of Einsatzkommando 8 (Part 3: Responsibility (I)). The Adler car connected to the other exhaust hose introduced into the wall was registered to the German Security Police.

4. The killing of several hundreds of mentally ill people by Einsatzkommando 8/Einsatzgruppe B in Mogilev is reported in contemporary German documents. Homicidal gassings of mentally ill people in Mogilev by Einsatzkommando 8 have been described by numerous witnesses. This specific gassing action shown in the footage was likely carried out in September 1941 (Part 4: Responsibility (II) and Part 5: Responsibility (III)).

The civilians dressed in white are Russian doctors/nurses of the asylum, who unload the victims under supervision of the police/SD men in the background.
No, I didn't read the blog and I'm not going to now. As I said, the shadow of the German soldier on the brick wall was the final straw.
So I get this straight: you don't want to read about the evidence that supports the authenticity of the video footage, but instead you claim it a forgery decisively based on the shadow of a German soldier on the brick wall? (and none of your other remarks did support any forgery allegation either)

Just what happened to your "I would like to hear a decent discussion on this claim of evidence, both pro and con" from that other thread? Now you kill any discussion and deliberately refuse to learn about any "pros". How do these two attitudes fit to one coherently thinking person?

That shadow of the German soldier on the brick wall. Now what is it that makes this little and inconspicuous detail so powerful that it ends any debate whatever they might still come? Do German soldiers do not cast shadows? Does the countour not fit to a German soldier? Does the sun never stands that low in this part of the world to cast such a shadow? Did the Germans did not have flash lights at the time? Would Nazi amateur filmers never take any footage with a German soldier's shadow on the wall?

The fact is that if a Nazi amateur filmer did shoot a homicidal gassing carried out by the Einsatzgruppe B staff, Einsatzkommando 8 and members of the Criminal Technical Institute of the RSHA - as the evidence you do not want to read about suggests -, then there were plenty of German "soldiers" around the place. With a low standing sun or flash light employed it is quite possible that one of those guys of the German paramilitary forces on the site would cast his shadow on the wall on the footage. And if the Nazi amateur filmer was not a perfectionist or did keep outtakes, it is entirely conceivable to end up with footage of a gassing setup with the shadow of a police or SD member taking part in the action.

It's a creepily bad argument and a fallacy that because some movie film makers use shadows as scary elements that therefore any scary situation with a shadow has been so likely staged that one does not need to look at any counter-evidence anymore.
It's not in the least believable.
If it is a matter of belief for you, I'm fine - as long as you don't want to give the impression that you arrived to this by considering historical evidence and logical reasoning.
Hans, regardless of who made the film, you are presenting it as evidence. In my opinion that was a horrible mistake because of the shadow that was cast on the wall.
You told this already and I have already adressed this above. It would have suited you better if you had explained why a Nazi amateur filmer would not take footage of a gassing setup with a shadow cast on the wall.
And also for other reasons which I've already mentioned, such as the breaks in the film,
Breaks in the film are not demonstrating a forgery. It means, first of all, that the scenes were shot at different times or from a different place, which is expected for a killing operation on a larger complex that lasted the whole day (or even several days), and secondly that the sequence may have been compiled from a longer footage for the documentary.

Side note, if the scenes were shown without any breaks, it is all but certain that some Holocaust denier would argue that only a hoaxer would do such strange thing to prove the Holocaust.
the attempt to portray the cart as the same cart from earlier in the film, and other.
I would guess that nobody could care less that you feel fooled because the footage shows two different batches of people transported.

For instance, I did not feel fooled and found it plain obvious that the Nazi amateur filmer has shot two different scenes, one of the transport of victims and one of the unloading of victims and he did so with different batches of victims.

In any case, it is a terribly bad argument to claim the footage a hoax if it depends so strongly on your personal feeling.
See my earlier comments. But the shadow projected on the wall clinched it for me. It's bogus. It's B rate hollywood or the German/Zionist version of hollywood.
And yet, if it is so obvious, one wonders why you do not explain why a Nazi amateur filmer would not take a footage with a shadow on the wall.

But that's not the end of the discussin with you as far as I'm concerned. You haven't destroyed your credibility in the same way as the others so you are free to make reference to something else, and I will consider it. However, be forewarned that I hold you responsible for the Mogliev film, and I consider that to be strike one.
You seem confused about this place. You are not the judge and it's not all about you here. You are merely a participant of this site, just as me, except that you hold a highly controversial, minority position. Of course, this won't change for long as that pompous victory dancing without delivering anything substantial does usually not convince even the most open-minded, reasonable reader. Good luck anyway.
Last edited by Hans on Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:26 pm

montgomery wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
VFX wrote:The fact is it is a B grade attempt at a genuine movie but shown to be totally fake. In the old days people would not really notice but these days with CGI these things are picked up on pretty quick. This is the dumbest genuine movie I have seen. The 6 year olds at the local school could do better than this. I appreciate movies being put on here for thought but not presented as evidence when it is clearly not.
So, your only evidence is a shadow on the wall.

BTW, didn’t I give you a homework assignment? I’m a patient fellow, do you need more time?

Or do you want to say that you don’t know and can’t tell me? BTW with that comes an agreement from you that any idea of mass transits “to the East” is crap.
The negative evidence against the Mogliev film is not just the shadow, but i would maintain that the shadow alone destroys it as evidence. A discussion on the rest of the evidence could be productive if you wish to do that?

No two parts of the 4 or 5 part film relate directly to each other as evidence. And in fact, the attempts to falsify evidence are visible. It simply fails to provide any aurhtentic evidence. But I'm always interested in your views and your valid arguments on the issue.

Hoping you won't again tell me that you're too busy and just observing.
I’m very observant of your refusal to actually see the evidence for this film being genuine.

Why is that?
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:26 pm

VFX wrote:
montgomery wrote:
Hoping you won't again tell me that you're too busy and just observing.
He is just observing and a little too busy atm. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I’m observing you ducking around the issue of the 300,000 missing Hungarian Jews.
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by VFX » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:29 pm

Its been mentioned Soviet Assimilation. If you have other evidence then say so but I for one am not interested in alleged missing people in the CCCP.

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:34 pm

VFX wrote:Its been mentioned Soviet Assimilation. If you have other evidence then say so but I for one am not interested in alleged missing people in the CCCP.
This is really funny. The guy who won't read links on issues raised here or background material about it and who has a blanket refusal to provide evidence for his comically preposterous speculation now tells Jeffk to produce "other evidence" - and then declares he isn't interested in finding out whether there is any validity to his own claims!

"Its been mentioned Soviet Assimilation." :lol:
Its been mentioned the White Sea.
Its been mentioned hospitals with maternity wards at Treblinka.
Its been mentioned UFOs in Antarctica.
"It was still at the stage of clubs and fists, hurrah, tala"

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by Balmoral95 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:37 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
VFX wrote:Its been mentioned Soviet Assimilation. If you have other evidence then say so but I for one am not interested in alleged missing people in the CCCP.
This is really funny. The guy who won't read links on issues raised here or background material about it and who has a blanket refusal to provide evidence for his comically preposterous speculation now tells Jeffk to produce "other evidence" - and then declares he isn't interested in finding out whether there is any validity to his own claims!

"Its been mentioned Soviet Assimilation." :lol:
Hey, Irving's website has all you really need to know so why bother with all that other junk...

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by montgomery » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:42 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
montgomery wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
VFX wrote:The fact is it is a B grade attempt at a genuine movie but shown to be totally fake. In the old days people would not really notice but these days with CGI these things are picked up on pretty quick. This is the dumbest genuine movie I have seen. The 6 year olds at the local school could do better than this. I appreciate movies being put on here for thought but not presented as evidence when it is clearly not.
So, your only evidence is a shadow on the wall.

BTW, didn’t I give you a homework assignment? I’m a patient fellow, do you need more time?

Or do you want to say that you don’t know and can’t tell me? BTW with that comes an agreement from you that any idea of mass transits “to the East” is crap.
The negative evidence against the Mogliev film is not just the shadow, but i would maintain that the shadow alone destroys it as evidence. A discussion on the rest of the evidence could be productive if you wish to do that?

No two parts of the 4 or 5 part film relate directly to each other as evidence. And in fact, the attempts to falsify evidence are visible. It simply fails to provide any aurhtentic evidence. But I'm always interested in your views and your valid arguments on the issue.

Hoping you won't again tell me that you're too busy and just observing.
I’m very observant of your refusal to actually see the evidence for this film being genuine.

Why is that?
Maybe my perception if formed on the basis of it needing to stand by itself as evidence. It doesn't IMO. I don't know if anything else can be said about it but I'm inviting you to do so. If you fail to engage in a discussion with me this time then that will be the last time I try. If you have something to say that needs responding to then you have my undivided attention.

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by VFX » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:43 pm

Balmoral95 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
VFX wrote:Its been mentioned Soviet Assimilation. If you have other evidence then say so but I for one am not interested in alleged missing people in the CCCP.
This is really funny. The guy who won't read links on issues raised here or background material about it and who has a blanket refusal to provide evidence for his comically preposterous speculation now tells Jeffk to produce "other evidence" - and then declares he isn't interested in finding out whether there is any validity to his own claims!

"Its been mentioned Soviet Assimilation." :lol:
Hey, Irving's website has all you really need to know so why bother with all that other junk...
Reading Mr Irvings books would be a good primer for you but don't tell Friedrich, he has a tendency to growl when the name DI is mentioned.

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by VFX » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:46 pm

montgomery wrote:
Maybe my perception if formed on the basis of it needing to stand by itself as evidence. It doesn't IMO. I don't know if anything else can be said about it but I'm inviting you to do so. If you fail to engage in a discussion with me this time then that will be the last time I try. If you have something to say that needs responding to then you have my undivided attention.
It is amazing how for a Skeptics Forum, they blindly accept the written word as an authority when they have all been duped. Seems we are the only genuine skeptics here. What a sad indictment on these folk.

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:59 pm

VFX wrote:
Balmoral95 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
VFX wrote:Its been mentioned Soviet Assimilation. If you have other evidence then say so but I for one am not interested in alleged missing people in the CCCP.
This is really funny. The guy who won't read links on issues raised here or background material about it and who has a blanket refusal to provide evidence for his comically preposterous speculation now tells Jeffk to produce "other evidence" - and then declares he isn't interested in finding out whether there is any validity to his own claims!

"Its been mentioned Soviet Assimilation." :lol:
Hey, Irving's website has all you really need to know so why bother with all that other junk...
Reading Mr Irvings books would be a good primer for you but don't tell Friedrich, he has a tendency to growl when the name DI is mentioned.
The fact that David Irving pisses off Fritz is one single point in his favor.
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by montgomery » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:00 pm

VFX wrote:
montgomery wrote:
Maybe my perception if formed on the basis of it needing to stand by itself as evidence. It doesn't IMO. I don't know if anything else can be said about it but I'm inviting you to do so. If you fail to engage in a discussion with me this time then that will be the last time I try. If you have something to say that needs responding to then you have my undivided attention.
It is amazing how for a Skeptics Forum, they blindly accept the written word as an authority when they have all been duped. Seems we are the only genuine skeptics here. What a sad indictment on these folk.
Their bad behavior alone destroys their credibility and so I'm more into doing my own research now. I think there's no other explanation for their attitudes other than their own insecurity on supporting their H.P.

Hans and Nessie seem to be all that's left that's worth reading. I've been fooled enough times by JeffK but as you'll notice, I'm giving him one last chance.

Don't they all realize how their behavior has diminished their credibility? Skepticism or denial could be so distasteful to them that they are forced into taking that kind of stand but they all need to try to rise above it. The holocaust needs respectable promotion and they are deserting the cause because of what can only be seen as immaturity that has led to insecurity. Thus, the failure to even attempt to carry on a discussion.

So be it! Maybe most decent people really don't care anymore, but are just taking the position that they would be endangering themselves to even voice skepticism. I think the only useful purpose now in 2018 is to validate the crimes of Israel and it's apartheid regime. But there's noting that can be done to prevent that evil from destroying itself in time. Likely the near future?

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by Balmoral95 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:04 pm

VFX wrote:
montgomery wrote:
Maybe my perception if formed on the basis of it needing to stand by itself as evidence. It doesn't IMO. I don't know if anything else can be said about it but I'm inviting you to do so. If you fail to engage in a discussion with me this time then that will be the last time I try. If you have something to say that needs responding to then you have my undivided attention.
It is amazing how for a Skeptics Forum, they blindly accept the written word as an authority when they have all been duped. Seems we are the only genuine skeptics here. What a sad indictment on these folk.
Where'd you get the notion that folks here think of themselves as sceptics?

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by Balsamo » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:07 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:To recap: Montgomery and VFX do not feel that the Mogilev footage is authentic. Their reason is entirely subjective, having to do with what they feel would be better. In addition, both of them - the learner and SA fanboy - refuse to read Hans’ analysis of why the footage has to be seen as authentic, presumably because they know they would have no answers for the argument and so have chickened out.
Good summary!

But if i may add, the footage is not meant to be a stand alone proof at all.
But as usual, Deniers strike on what they can understand which seems to be limited to a shadow on a wall.

Now of course, it seems at first sight quite easy to attack the footage. Its story is incredible so to speak. Some German half Jew formerly working for Hollywood chose to remain in Germany the whole time and ended up buying an small property in Berlin who was previously owned by one of the greatest criminal in the third Reich - who does that? - only to find a couple of second of footage showing very little actually.
The inclusion of the footage in a sequence showing the Soviet prosecution at Nuremberg only increases suspicion.

Only to say that at first sight, it seems a perfect meal for a denier. Especially those who do not bother to read about the context.

Anyway, i am personally not convinced that the footage actually shows a real gassing of mentally insane in "live". But the details shown in the various links posted by Hans also exclude a pure fabrication by the Soviets. They could have staged the whole scene, but then how one explains the license plates? the fact that the vehicules belonged to the EG and EK present in the area at the same times?
The Soviets could have found two German cars, but wouldn't have bothered with the license plates.

What i mean here is that the footage becomes a proof only after having been researched carefully, which the HC crew did, corroborated with document showing the presence of Nebe in the area during the month of september 41, implementing a policy that was very common all over the eastern occupied areas, in accordance with the directive of preventing the resource for the invasion forces. The Ereignismeldungen have plenty of entries regarding the "liquidation" of Asylum even if only to liberate hospital beds for wounded German soldiers.

Now it is very possible that the shadow have been added for more visual effects, along with the soundtrack of the cars, maybe or maybe not, but it does not change the whole picture and HC's conclusions.

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:09 pm

Balmoral95 wrote:
VFX wrote:
montgomery wrote:
Maybe my perception if formed on the basis of it needing to stand by itself as evidence. It doesn't IMO. I don't know if anything else can be said about it but I'm inviting you to do so. If you fail to engage in a discussion with me this time then that will be the last time I try. If you have something to say that needs responding to then you have my undivided attention.
It is amazing how for a Skeptics Forum, they blindly accept the written word as an authority when they have all been duped. Seems we are the only genuine skeptics here. What a sad indictment on these folk.
Where'd you get the notion that folks here think of themselves as sceptics?
Or that people posting here blindly accept what they read?

The Bombing Campaigns of the Allies and the Germans
More Auschwitz: The Sonderkommando Thread
Yet another Wannsee thread (with Brayard)
KLs in spring 1945
"It was still at the stage of clubs and fists, hurrah, tala"

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:09 pm

BTW If memory serves Balmoral read Irving in the past.
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by VFX » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:14 pm

montgomery wrote:
Don't they all realize how their behavior has diminished their credibility? Skepticism or denial could be so distasteful to them that they are forced into taking that kind of stand but they all need to try to rise above it. The holocaust needs respectable promotion and they are deserting the cause because of what can only be seen as immaturity that has led to insecurity. Thus, the failure to even attempt to carry on a discussion.
My first impression being here was that it was like walking into a Synagogue full of fanatic Zionist Supremacists. I have in my mind the kind of people that abuse Arabs by throwing rubbish and excrement in their direction. Truth or reality has little meaning. All in the name of being good Zionists fulfilling Yawhehs mission.